eq hairloss help

[Phaded]

i've been on eq for 6 weeks now at 600 mg ew and my hair is shedding like crazy.. just curious what anyone that was on eq and had hairloss that they associated with eq did to help the hairloss or at least stop the shedding..

i was also just comtemplating stopping cold turkey with the eq.. if i did how long would it take for the hairloss to cease shedding at such a drastic rate and would it be necessary for pct or could i cease for a month and then try something else.. thanks in advance for help bromels

 

[doublebicep]

EQ only and had massive hairloss. The only thing that slowed it down was:
======================================
2% Spironolactone Solution

Quantity and Ingredients:
60 mL. 2% Spironolactone (20mg spironolactone /mL) in a liquid base of 50% alcohol,
30% propylene glycol, 20% water.

How long does 60 mL last?
Depending on the frequency of application and the amount applied, 60 mL is a 1 to
2 months' supply.

Directions:
Liquid 2% spironolactone should be applied to the scalp in the same area(s) onto
which you apply topical minoxidil or topical Xandrox. The skin should be dry (or
at least towel-dried) before application and the total dosage should be about 1
mL but not much more at any single application. Apply enough to moisten the skin.
It is best to apply liquid spironolactone before applying minoxidil or Xandrox to
avoid contaminating the dauber surface. The delayed interaction between spironolactone
and minoxidil can cause
an offensive mercaptan odor on the applicator.

Spironolactone is effective in protecting the follicles from DHT because it (1)
inhibits the synthesis of DHT, (2) converts testosterone in the scalp to estrogen,
and (3) blocks the androgen receptor sites on the hair follicles, effectively preventing
even circulating DHT from attaching to the receptor sites. As a result, the follicles
are protected from miniaturizing and have the potential to mature again to their
normal size.

Topical spironolactone does not cause shedding. Because it metabolizes totally and rapidly in the skin where it is applied, there are no systemic
effects.
======================================

Kept using it through PCT and sev weeks after that. Not expensive at $19.00 for 60ML's.

I will never touch EQ again. Hairloss, anxiety, and not a lot of gains compared to test. (At least with test I can manage the sides with out any problems. EQ is out for me!)

 

[Phaded]

any other help?

 

[Phaded]

searched long and far on google for sites that sell spiro couldn't find any.. can anyone help with this thanks

 

[JoNeS]

Get on propecia, nizoral shampoo, and Nioxin shampoo ASAP

 

[doublebicep]

Dr. Lee

or

wholesalehairproducts

(Email whp and ask about their Spiro. I do not see it on their products page but I think they still carry it.)

Good luck!

 

[azul]

Anyone here who got hairloss from EQ get it from other steroids too, or just EQ?

 

[doublebicep]

Get on propecia, nizoral shampoo, and Nioxin shampoo ASAP

Propecia (finasteride) will have no impact on EQ hairloss. Finasteride works with testosterone.

Good suggestion on the Nizoral shampoo. You can get it from either site I posted about. It might help with EQ or any AAS for that matter.

Get Spiro is #1 priority for EQ hairloss IMO!

 

[pits97]

Had bad hairloss on EQ only, well I listened to someone on another board who said take propecia.... well it got worse. Stick with spiro, it won't stop it, but it will help greatly. Wholesale had a 5% cream that I prefer over the 2% liquid.

 

[doublebicep]

Had bad hairloss on EQ only, well I listened to someone on another board who said take propecia.... well it got worse. Stick with spiro, it won't stop it, but it will help greatly. Wholesale had a 5% cream that I prefer over the 2% liquid.

Finasteride could make EQ hairloss worse. It certainly will not slow it or stop it. Some one gave you some lame advice.

 

[Tim_G]

http://customnutritionwarehouse.com/shop/index.php?cPath=24

 

[pits97]

Finasteride could make EQ hairloss worse. It certainly will not slow it or stop it. Some one gave you some lame advice.

No kidding, trouble is you have people posting on boards that really don't know what they are talking about

 

[mrplunkey]

Finasteride could make EQ hairloss worse. It certainly will not slow it or stop it. Some one gave you some lame advice.

You are thinking of Nandralones, where finastride blocks the 5AR enzmye that converts a compound like Nandralone Deconate (Deca) into DHN in the scalp. In this situation, a 5AR blocker can make hairloss worse.

As far as EQ, I'm pretty sure EQ isn't mediated by the 5AR mechanism either way.

Thanks!

 

[view]

You are thinking of Nandralones, where finastride blocks the 5AR enzmye that converts a compound like Nandralone Deconate (Deca) into DHN in the scalp. In this situation, a 5AR blocker can make hairloss worse.

As far as EQ, I'm pretty sure EQ isn't mediated by the 5AR mechanism either way.

Thanks!

this man is 100% correct.

 

[AMGETR]

You are thinking of Nandralones, where finastride blocks the 5AR enzmye that converts a compound like Nandralone Deconate (Deca) into DHN in the scalp. In this situation, a 5AR blocker can make hairloss worse.

As far as EQ, I'm pretty sure EQ isn't mediated by the 5AR mechanism either way.

Thanks!

So Finasteride will or will not work for eq hair loss?

 

[doublebicep]

You are thinking of Nandralones, where finastride blocks the 5AR enzmye that converts a compound like Nandralone Deconate (Deca) into DHN in the scalp. In this situation, a 5AR blocker can make hairloss worse.

As far as EQ, I'm pretty sure EQ isn't mediated by the 5AR mechanism either way.

Thanks!

Still, lame advice.

 

[mrplunkey]

So Finasteride will or will not work for eq hair loss?

Since EQ isn't 5ar mediated, it should neither help nor hurt. Having said that, it probably still protects against your own natural test->DHT conversion so it doesn't "hurt".

For example, in about 2 weeks I start a Test/EQ/Anavar cycle and I'll be doing 1.0 mg's of finastride (Propecia) 1x a week. I have some Avodart on standby (Deutestride, but mispelled i'm sure) but for now the Propecia seems to work.

For me, the propecia / nizoral shampoo / 2% topical spirolactone "stack" seems to be working, but I haven't really put it to a tough test yet.

P.S. Watch your vitamin A too... it's easy to get too much of that from numerous sources. For example, taking the "Animal Pak" multivitamin pack starts you off with 200% of the USRDA of Vitamin A -- so other suppliments would just build on that. Vitamin A is a prime source of Tellogen Effluvium -- which looks like mass shedding although it can or can not be associated with MPB.

 

[AMGETR]

I just ordered from spir 2%. I will run the finasteride at 2.5mg ED throughout along with the spir 1mg ed. My cycle is 250mg-500mg test a week, 600mg eq a week, 100mg ed tren, 50mg dbol ed

 

[mrplunkey]

I just ordered from spir 2%. I will run the finasteride at 2.5mg ED throughout along with the spir 1mg ed. My cycle is 250mg-500mg test a week, 600mg eq a week, 100mg ed tren, 50mg dbol ed

I've read (and been told by a dermatologist) that even the 1.0 mg of Finasteride in Propecia may be overkill. Apparently if it's going to do it's "mojo", it does it even at tiny doses (i.e. 0.25-0.5 mg's ED).

 

[pits97]

You are thinking of Nandralones, where finastride blocks the 5AR enzmye that converts a compound like Nandralone Deconate (Deca) into DHN in the scalp. In this situation, a 5AR blocker can make hairloss worse.

As far as EQ, I'm pretty sure EQ isn't mediated by the 5AR mechanism either way.

Thanks!

All I know is I lost more hair once I started on the finasteride, on a EQ only cylce...

 

[mrplunkey]

All I know is I lost more hair once I started on the finasteride, on a EQ only cylce...

Again, EQ isn't mediated by the 5AR mechanism, but it does have a modest androgenic component. MPB is also knows as "Androgenic Alopecia" -- Hair loss through androgens. While DHT is normally singled-out as the culprit, it's really only one of many potential androgens that can bind to the follacle (it's just that DHT has a very high affinity relatively speaking). You won't read as much about other androgens, but then again how many people suffering from MPB have EQ or deca running through them either?

Now... to open-up even another can of worms. Hair and hair loss is a slooooow process. If your hair is responding at blazing speeds, you may see results in 2-4 weeks. If your hair is responding like 99% of the population, you are working on more like a 4-8 week timeline. Think about chemo patients -- their hair falls out well after they recieve treatment.

Also... MPB is a slow, degenerative process where the follacle accumulates damage from the immune system and systematically produces weaker and weaker hairs. You can have sudden lapses of hairloss, known as Tellogen Effluviums that may or may NOT be related to MPB. TE is caused by a large number of hairs being forced into the death phase, hence they all "let go" at the same time. Unless you are doing daily "pull tests" where you grab a fingerfull of hair (25 ish hairs) and try to rip them out, you won't know exactly when your TE occurred because those hairs would otherwise take 2-4-8 weeks to actually shed. If you haven't experienced a TE, you'll get 2-3 hairs, since about 1% of your scalp is normally in the Tellogen phase at any time. If you are experiencing a TE, expect more like 5-10 (or more) hairs.

Now... TE can be causes by a *lot* of things. Examples include a sudden change in hormone levels (including estrogen), an overdose of vitamin A, physical stress, mental stress, chemotherapy... even starting minoxidil (Rogaine) can trigger a TE! It's not uncommon for a new wave of MPB to be kicked-off by a TE as well and like I mentioned earlier the two processes aren't necessarily independent but you can easily experience one without the other. A "pure" TE is 100% recoverable though. You'll see "waves" of healthy, non-miniaturized hairs popping across your scalp within 3-6 months of the initial shedding.

I guess the real bottom line of my post is that unless you are doing daily hair pull tests, weekly scalp biopsies, weekly blood tests and measuring your physical and mental stress continuously you'll never be able to accurately measure the true impact of any one thing on your hair since the result can take 2-8 weeks to actually see. Doctors like to call this a "multifactorial problem" but the bottom line is there are a lot of moving parts here and the measurement system (your hairline) is an ultra-slow moving metric.

 

[AMGETR]

Great post!! k for you

 

[doublebicep]

IMO - the best stack for EQ, Deca, Primo, Winny, DBol, and fina:

- Spiro 1 or 2 times per day (Before applying minoxidil.)
- Nizoril Shampoo (Ketoconazole 2%) 2 times per week
- Polysorbate Shampoo 5 times a week
- Minoxidil 2 times a day - (I like a custom blend by Dr. Lee that consists of:5% minoxidil plus 5% (50 mg minoxidil / mL) azelaic acid (50 mg azelaic acid / mL) 0.025% retinoic acid plus 0.025% betamethasone valerate)

For test, add finasteride. Once started, I would never stop either finasteride or minoxidil. That means for many Deca is not a great option if you are taking finasteride, which is fine, there are many other alternatives.

 

[doublebicep]

More info on Spiro:

Directions:
Liquid 2% spironolactone should be applied to the scalp in the same area(s) onto
which you apply topical minoxidil or topical Xandrox. The skin should be dry (or
at least towel-dried) before application and the total dosage should be about 1
mL but not much more at any single application. Apply enough to moisten the skin.
It is best to apply liquid spironolactone before applying minoxidil or Xandrox to
avoid contaminating the dauber surface. The delayed interaction between spironolactone
and minoxidil can cause
an offensive mercaptan odor on the applicator.

Spironolactone is effective in protecting the follicles from DHT because it (1)
inhibits the synthesis of DHT, (2) converts testosterone in the scalp to estrogen,
and (3) blocks the androgen receptor sites on the hair follicles, effectively preventing
even circulating DHT from attaching to the receptor sites. As a result, the follicles
are protected from miniaturizing and have the potential to mature again to their
normal size.

 

[pits97]

If it were TE, wouldn't it be seen over the entire scalp, and not just frontal or crown thinning?

 

[mrplunkey]

If it were TE, wouldn't it be seen over the entire scalp, and not just frontal or crown thinning?

Normally TE is an entire scalp phenomenon -- but for people who wear their hair swept straight back (think jay cutler) a TE will be more noticable in the very front than anywhere else, simply because the hair has to cover the curvature of your forehead.

Really the best way to assess it is to have a dermatologist pick-through your scalp. They can look past your hairstyle and figure-out how uniform the thinning is.

 

[Phaded]

IMO - the best stack for EQ, Deca, Primo, Winny, DBol, and fina:

- Spiro 1 or 2 times per day (Before applying minoxidil.)
- Nizoril Shampoo (Ketoconazole 2%) 2 times per week
- Polysorbate Shampoo 5 times a week
- Minoxidil 2 times a day - (I like a custom blend by Dr. Lee that consists of:5% minoxidil plus 5% (50 mg minoxidil / mL) azelaic acid (50 mg azelaic acid / mL) 0.025% retinoic acid plus 0.025% betamethasone valerate)

For test, add finasteride. Once started, I would never stop either finasteride or minoxidil. That means for many Deca is not a great option if you are taking finasteride, which is fine, there are many other alternatives.

seems like a lot of stuff my friend but i might give all that a try did you notice any hair regrowth with that stack.

 

[GeneticFreak18]

so wait will propecia work against test and deca? i got confused there...and i start both soon and cant afford to lose anymore hair

 

[wayneboard1]

Very good post, Karma to you man. This is the type of stuff I wish I could find when I spend 2 hours reading post after post asking if oral sex counts towards losing ones virginity.

Again, EQ isn't mediated by the 5AR mechanism, but it does have a modest androgenic component. MPB is also knows as "Androgenic Alopecia" -- Hair loss through androgens. While DHT is normally singled-out as the culprit, it's really only one of many potential androgens that can bind to the follacle (it's just that DHT has a very high affinity relatively speaking). You won't read as much about other androgens, but then again how many people suffering from MPB have EQ or deca running through them either?

Now... to open-up even another can of worms. Hair and hair loss is a slooooow process. If your hair is responding at blazing speeds, you may see results in 2-4 weeks. If your hair is responding like 99% of the population, you are working on more like a 4-8 week timeline. Think about chemo patients -- their hair falls out well after they recieve treatment.

Also... MPB is a slow, degenerative process where the follacle accumulates damage from the immune system and systematically produces weaker and weaker hairs. You can have sudden lapses of hairloss, known as Tellogen Effluviums that may or may NOT be related to MPB. TE is caused by a large number of hairs being forced into the death phase, hence they all "let go" at the same time. Unless you are doing daily "pull tests" where you grab a fingerfull of hair (25 ish hairs) and try to rip them out, you won't know exactly when your TE occurred because those hairs would otherwise take 2-4-8 weeks to actually shed. If you haven't experienced a TE, you'll get 2-3 hairs, since about 1% of your scalp is normally in the Tellogen phase at any time. If you are experiencing a TE, expect more like 5-10 (or more) hairs.

Now... TE can be causes by a *lot* of things. Examples include a sudden change in hormone levels (including estrogen), an overdose of vitamin A, physical stress, mental stress, chemotherapy... even starting minoxidil (Rogaine) can trigger a TE! It's not uncommon for a new wave of MPB to be kicked-off by a TE as well and like I mentioned earlier the two processes aren't necessarily independent but you can easily experience one without the other. A "pure" TE is 100% recoverable though. You'll see "waves" of healthy, non-miniaturized hairs popping across your scalp within 3-6 months of the initial shedding.

I guess the real bottom line of my post is that unless you are doing daily hair pull tests, weekly scalp biopsies, weekly blood tests and measuring your physical and mental stress continuously you'll never be able to accurately measure the true impact of any one thing on your hair since the result can take 2-8 weeks to actually see. Doctors like to call this a "multifactorial problem" but the bottom line is there are a lot of moving parts here and the measurement system (your hairline) is an ultra-slow moving metric.

 

[mrplunkey]

so wait will propecia work against test and deca? i got confused there...and i start both soon and cant afford to lose anymore hair

Test + Propecia = *generally* hair-friendly
Deca + Propecia = potential to make MPB significantly worse.

In all fairness, a number of people have mixed deca with Propecia and had no problems as well. Some will even call this phenomenon a myth -- but there is a well-documented mechanism for why deca becomes hair-unfriendly when used with Propecia regardless.

 

[doublebicep]

seems like a lot of stuff my friend but i might give all that a try did you notice any hair regrowth with that stack.

Actually, for guys who have the MPB gene, this stack is a must if they want to keep their hair and still use AAS.

No, this stack did not help grow hair back. MPB treatment is still mostly about keeping what you have. Once you have lost it, it is usually too late. Esp. as you get older. Best to keep what you have unless you look good desiel style.

 

[GeneticFreak18]

Test + Propecia = *generally* hair-friendly
Deca + Propecia = potential to make MPB significantly worse.

In all fairness, a number of people have mixed deca with Propecia and had no problems as well. Some will even call this phenomenon a myth -- but there is a well-documented mechanism for why deca becomes hair-unfriendly when used with Propecia regardless.

alright well i'm 19 and doing a national show in july so i need to be on and anadrol/test/deca is my cycle for 14 weeks out. My hairline is already receaded and i cant afford to lose anymore...so should i take the propecia with this cycle or not? ALSO where can i get this nizoral?

 

[pits97]

alright well i'm 19 and doing a national show in july so i need to be on and anadrol/test/deca is my cycle for 14 weeks out. My hairline is already receaded and i cant afford to lose anymore...so should i take the propecia with this cycle or not? ALSO where can i get this nizoral?

Test, deca, and propecia was good to me. Basically, the way I understood it in laymans terms was that the propecia was busy blocking the dht from the test, so did not convert the deca into dhn, which worsens the hairloss effect of deca. There was a post awhile back on that explained better

http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=45848

 

[pits97]

Test, deca, and propecia was good to me. Basically, the way I understood it in laymans terms was that the propecia was busy blocking the dht from the test, so did not convert the deca into dhn, which worsens the hairloss effect of deca. There was a post awhile back on that explained better

http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=45848

since I can't post the link here it is:

Dispelling the deca + finasteride myth

by einstein

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I heard you can't use finasteride with deca"
Without fail, you'll hear this statement at least once a month.

First off, let me preface this by saying that this is true, in certain contexts.
However, I'm an advocate of including testosterone in every cycle, so my explanation is with the assumption that one will be using nandrolone in addition to testosterone

For those that do not know, testosterone converts to DHT via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT is far more androgenic than testosterone and is the main contributor to MPB in those genetically predisposed.

Finasteride is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, and therefore limits the conversion of testosterone to DHT via competitive inhibition.

Nandrolone itself is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor (although it yields DHN in the process). So less DHT is produced if nandrolone is present. Also, DHN is much less androgenic than nandrolone and much less androgenic than DHT. So, finasteride with deca (nandrolone) should both work to reduce DHT levels, and since finasteride will inhibit 5a reductase, it'll also keep levels of DHN lower too.

The misconception that deca with finasteride is a bad combination stems from the the days when deca only cycles were more common (often referred to as the days before jason updated the AR homepage cycles ) If one were running a deca only cycle (or any deca cycle without test), then finasteride would be a poor choice, because DHN is less androgenic than nandrolone. However, since we're assuming test to be included in a deca cycle, and both test and DHT are far more androgenic than nandrolone, if your goal is preventing the formation of the most androgenic compounds, then both deca and finasteride work together to reduce DHT formation.

To sum things up, if you're running a test + deca cycle and are worried about MPB (and you're susceptible), then including finasteride is a far better option than NOT including it, although the nandrolone will help to reduce DHT formation on its own to some extent.

This doesn't touch on the many positive effects of DHT (libido, muscle hardness, decreased SHBG and therefore increased bioavailable AAS).....this is only in the context of preventing hairloss.

 

[VeniceMscl]

Just my two cents:

I did a test/deca cycle last year and lost half my hair (almost no joke). Was really scarry. But it stopped and for the most part filled in over time.

This cycle I'm on Eq and fina. My hair actually feels thicker/fuller and almost none comes out in the wash. I'm on 200mgEq eod and 75mgFina eod.

Good luck, bro.