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Eating To Grow

theoak01

New member
This is something buyb12 posted on another thread and I thought it was to valueable not to have a thread of its own.

so for the newbies here wanting to try gear read this and see why you may not be growing

Eat To Grow

EAT TO GROW
What if I told you your success or failure in the gym has very little to do with what you do in the gym. You would probably look at me like I was crazy. Guess what, nutrition is by far the most important factor to making progress on any fitness program. Why have the so called "experts" made nutrition so confusing? I am going to attempt to take some of the confusion out of this subject and simplify things for you. First, lets start off by getting rid of the word "nutrition" and call it eating.

HOW MUCH SHOULD I BE EATING?

The first determination we need to make is how many calories should we be consuming each day? Unfortunately, everybody does not have the same caloric demands. Therefore, we must come up with a caloric figure to meet your specific demands. To determine what your caloric intake should be, simply take your current body weight and multiply by 12. The number you get will be the amount of calories you need to maintain your current weight (assuming you are training regularly). If you would like to gain weight, simply multiply your current body weight by a factor of 15. If you would like to lose some weight, simply multiply your body weight by a factor of 10. (Example: Maintenance, 200lb male X 12 = 2400 calories per day).

Remember, everybody has a different metabolism. Therefore, you may need to adjust these factors slightly to fit your specific demands. Basically, these figures serve as an ideal starting point to figure out what your personal caloric demands are.

HOW MANY GRAMS OF PROTEIN, CARBOHYDRATES AND FAT?

I am a strong proponent of the high protein, low carbohydrate and low fat way of eating. I even go as far as putting some of my clients on regimens consisting of 60% protein, 30% carbohydrate and 10% fat. For purposes of this article I will suggest that 50% of your calories come from protein, 30% from carbohydrates and 20% from fat. A gram of protein is equal to 4 calories and a gram of carbohydrate is also equal to 4 calories. Each gram of fat is equal to 9 calories. Now, take the above formula and figure out how many grams of protein, carbohydrates and protein you should be consuming each day. (Example: Maintenance, 200lb man requires 2400 calories, 300 grams of protein, 180 grams of carbohydrate, 53 grams of fat).

WHEN DO I EAT MY MEALS?

I suggest that you consume a meal every two and a half to three hours throughout the day. The easiest way to calculate when to eat your meals is to plan it out in advance. Therefore, write down what time it will be three hours from your first meal (breakfast) and then every three hours thereafter. Basically what I am saying is to eat when the clock tells you to, not when your stomach tells you. (Example: If you ate breakfast at 8:00 a.m., your next meals would be at 11:00 a.m., 2:00 p.m., 5:00p.m. and 8:00 p.m.). Attempt to eat each meal using the 50% protein, 30% carbohydrates and 20% fat breakdown. Also, if your caloric demand is roughly 2400 calories per day try to get in about 500 calories at each meal. Eating in this manner makes it very easy to stay disciplined.

WHAT ARE THE BEST THINGS TO EAT?

I guess this one depends upon what you like to eat. Remember, I am trying to make this eating concept easy for you. First, let me give you some examples of what protein, carbohydrates and fats are. Examples of good protein include: red meat, fish, chicken, turkey, milk, eggs and whey. Examples of carbohydrates include: rice, potatoes, breads, grains, fruits and vegetables. Examples of good fats include: flax seed oil, safflower oil, borage seed oil, fish oil, conjugated lineic acid and MCT oil. Obviously there are many more examples of the food groups I have mentioned, however, these are the most common.

Using the foods I have mentioned above in the right quantity would give you all you ever needed to succeed in the gym. The problem is preparing food during your busy day is not convenient. Therefore the solution is using meal replacement powders. These powders come in convenient packs, are easily mixed with water and the nutritional breakdown is great. There are many companies such as Met Rx, Myoplex, Perfect Rx and Rx Fuel which make decent meal replacement s. I highly recommend that you incorporate one of these products into your daily eating program. I suggest eating three regular food meals and two meal replacement s per day. If you are trying to lose weight you may want to eat three meal replacement s and two regular food meals. If you are trying to gain weight you may try eating three regular meals and three or even four meal replacement s.

MEAL SUGGESTIONS

The most common complaint about eating properly is not having enough time to prepare good meals. We have already discussed the convenience of meal replacement powders, so I will give you some dishes that are easy and enjoyable. I usually start my day off with a bowl of oatmeal mixed with egg whites, a scoop of whey protein powder, and a tablespoon of flaxseed oil. To spice it up I will add apple filling, cinnamon or equal packets. This recipe is quick, easy, tastes good and yields about 50 grams of protein (8 egg whites and one scoop of whey protein), 35 grams of carbs, 14 grams of fat (flaxseed oil) and roughly 500 calories. As you can see, this concoction fits exactly into my nutritional profile.

Another meal I eat frequently for lunch or dinner is a mixture of white rice, boiled egg whites and tuna (chicken may be substituted). I simply cook about 3 oz. of white rice and boil six eggs. I mix the rice together with six egg whites and one yolk. I then add in a can of white chunk tuna, flaxseed oil and some garlic powder (or your favorite spice). This recipe yields about 60 grams of protein, 30 grams of carbs, 15 grams of fat and roughly 500 calories.

THINGS TO AVOID WHEN EATING

NOT GETTING ENOUGH PROTEIN

Protein is essential in your quest to build quality muscle. The question is how much protein should you be consuming? A good rule of thumb is to consume 1.5 - 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. The easiest way to get enough protein into your body is with a good whey protein supplement. In addition to your meals, mix two scoops of whey protein with some water. Also, try to mix up your protein sources throughout the day. For example, eat tuna at one meal, chicken at the next and eggs at the next meal. No matter what you do, consume at least your minimum protein requirement everyday.

NOT GETTING ENOUGH WATER

Try to sip on water constantly throughout the day. Water may be the most underrated piece of the bodybuilding puzzle. As we know, the body is made up of approximately 67% water. Water is desperately needed to cleanse the body and help to regenerate muscle cells. As a rule of thumb, try to consume at least one gallon of water per day.

NOT KEEPING A DAILY JOURNAL

The first thing I tell my bodybuilding clients is to write down everything that goes into their body. Writing down what you eat is the only way to analyze any changes that need to be made for future progress. It is very hard to make changes in your diet if you don't know what time you eat, what kind of protein you eat and how many grams of protein, carbs, fats and calories you are ingesting. The more detailed your log is, the easier it will be for you to go back and analyze it.

TOO MANY SIMPLE CARBOHYDRATES

Yes you need carbohydrates in your body. The question becomes are all carbs created equal. The answer is no. Without getting into too much detail, simple carbs cause a high insulin spike because they have a high glycemic index. This is usually not a good thing when trying to keep fat off of your body. Simple carbs are basically your sugars, sweets and fruits. Try to stick to carbs like potatoes, rice and vegetables. The best time to consume simple carbs is within two hours after training. During this period your muscles are very receptive to simple sugars.

NOT CONSUMING ENOUGH GOOD FAT

Yes, you read that correctly. Fat is not always the enemy. There is nothing wrong with consuming moderate amounts of fat in your diet. In fact, research has shown that fat is essential to growth, recovery, skin and connective tissue. A good rule of thumb is to stay away from hydrogenated oils, "shelf oils" and vegetable oils. These are the fats found in potato chips and snacks. Also, limit your saturated fat intake to that which is found naturally in the protein you eat. Finally, make sure you are getting a sufficient amount of essential fatty acids in your diet. Try to add a tablespoon of flaxseed oil to your protein shakes or meals.

DON'T WAIT ANOTHER MINUTE

What are you doing? You should be looking at the clock to see if it is time to eat again. As I stated earlier, eating is the key to your success or failure in the gym. Once you begin to gain more of an understanding of what your body's demands are, you will be able to customize a more intricate eating plan for yourself. For now, keep a detailed journal and watch your body change for the better
 
Bodyweight x 15 to bulk?? that's barely maintenance for me. and I don't have a fast metabolism. Bodyweight x 12 has me dropping weight pretty fast.

Tell IL or Bfold to 'maintain' on 3600 calories a day.
 
most people can gain by 15xbodyweight,if you want to gain more add more,its just a basic outline for newbies not vets
 
Its amazing how many people are training hard, but fail to follow a diet that is necessary for growth.

Low carbs aren't the answer. . thats my opinion.

I do believe in plenty of complex carbs. . not the carbs from sugar.
 
My suggestion is to go high on carbs, but never ever leave out the fat. I often mix up rice with tuna and add some soya and to that flaxx oil 5g + omega3 fishoil 5g + omega 6 or 9(olive oil, sunflower or whatever). 10g-15g extra fat if you eat a meal like rice(no fat) and tuna(no fat to very very little). If I eat a big steak and pasta I leave out the omega 6 and 9 and go with the omega 3, 5g or so. Adding kmore fat and keeping cals from carbs high, 100g carbs for lunch for example, with 50-60g protein has done wonders for my stomach as low fat = problems for me..
 
Low carbs for growth does not work. You can eat protein all day till the cows come home (and I've downed 8-9 protein shakes a day) but for some reason if you don't add carbs to the mix you don't get rocket growth.
 
Yes! carbs are absolutely essential....people suggesting low carb bulking are afraid to gain body fat, and stay small...as we continue to grow. MUUHHHAAAAAHHHAAHHA!!
 
I am pretty sure the only way to grow on a low carb diet is to use synthetic insulin. I know that in order for your body to assimilate the protein well it needs some insulin to be produced, that doesn't happen without the carbs.
 
My problem is I need to get stronger WITHOUT adding much weight... unless I drop some fat, I like the weight classes I compete in.

But... like most others, my diet could use a bit more work.
 
The question with carbs is when to take them. Taking simple carbs right after a workout is good, taking them just before bed is bad. Taking complex carbs before bed is more beneficial but in moderate amounts, cos the assimilation of protein throughout the night requires energy too and this is from the complex carbs.
 
ZGzaZ said:
Yes! carbs are absolutely essential....people suggesting low carb bulking are afraid to gain body fat, and stay small...as we continue to grow. MUUHHHAAAAAHHHAAHHA!!

Ummmm ok. Guess I'll just keep staying small and only gain another 15 ibs of lbm without andy bf gain before the new year.
 
louden_swain said:


sure. . .sure. . . :rolleyes:

I was quite serious bro. :D
Hmmm... perhaps a challenge is in order. You say you do 635 x3 on the half-deadlift as a result of your buffet-style eating correct? I think I can beat that, on no carbs.
 
BodyByFinaplix said:


I was quite serious bro. :D
Hmmm... perhaps a challenge is in order. You say you do 635 x3 on the half-deadlift as a result of your buffet-style eating correct? I think I can beat that, on no carbs.

sure. . sure. . don't let your ego get ahead of yourself. You might find out that you are out of your league.
 
Bro, I was messing with you. I stopped doing partial deadlifts about 5 months ago. It wasn't a fair challenge if I've already done 725 for reps. I am trying to make a point that alot of guys have very successfully gained huge amounts of lbm and strength on low carb diets. Carbs are not a requirement for health or gains in muscle mass. I'm not trying to take anything away from you. I think you said before that you are natural, which if its true, your progress is pretty phenominal.
 
Anyway, after reading your post the other day, I'm thinking of starting to do them again. They work wonders for my lower back development.
 
Somebody better tell Bill Kazimier he needs to eat carbs to get big, I mean the guy is only 325. If you don't have a copy of Powerlifting USA from July, pick it up, an interesting article about Kaz.
 
I know overhead, Kaz is a dumbass, doesn't he know if you just ate some rice instead of eating such low carbs he could be 450 ibs with a 1000 ibs bench? Same here. I mean everyone at the gym wants to know my diet, drug stacks and everything because they think its impossible to be where I am with such a short amount of training time under my belt. Damn, if I had just been eating carbs for the last 3 years I could look like Ronnie Coleman. I feel so stupid now.
 
Maybe Kaz, Plumbo and the others are just freaks, and the rest of us cannot grow without carbs. I am really looking for the answer here. Somebody please tell me why if eating 5000-6000 calories a day of protein and fat, and either eating just enough carbs to refill muscle glycogen daily, or carbing up once a week, how growth will be effected. I must be missing something. Are large numbers of carbs required for muscle growth, or do they just fuel the workout? What happens to excess carbs after muscle glycogen is restored? How do they help in the actual process of building muscle? I very well maybe missing something. Somebody with more knowledge on this fill me in please.
 
BodyByFinaplix,

15 lbs. of LBM by the end of the year with no fat gain... Yeah, right. You being a beginner will soon realize that the gains come easily early-on but they slow down as your training progresses. Perhaps, a bit of advice. If you were a bit more humble then board members would be more accepting of your advice. Tone that 20-year old ego down, please. Good luck!
 
Screwball, sorry if I'm coming across as egotistical, its just that with this particular issue, being humble thus far hasn't had any effect. However, it seems that not being humble is having the same reaction. ::sigh:: Its simply an issue of people being stuck in a certain mindset, and aren't going to listen regardless of the aproach used I suspect. Yes, I think its obtainable though, the goal. I'm basing it on the fact that my gains will probably come a little slower with each passing year. A year ago, I gain about 20 ibs of lbm and got a little leaner in roughly the same peroid of time. So why, on a better routine, and a little more juice would it not be possible to replicate 75% of those results? Not that failure would totally disappoint me.
 
BodyByFinaplix said:
I mean everyone at the gym wants to know my diet, drug stacks and everything because they think its impossible to be where I am with such a short amount of training time under my belt.

Give me a break!!

Sounds like way too many newbies and inexperienced trainers running around.
 
LoL. Ok, I'll be the nice guy and stop before this turns into one of those stupid flame wars.

:: puts up his white flag::
 
You are absolutely correct, I am an inexperienced trainer, only two years in the gym and only about 6 months of working real hard. My opinion on the needs for carbs was changed by a couple of books, bodybyfinaplix and my own experience on a low carb diet. My experience was losing weight while not losing strength with low carbs and pretty low calories is possible for me. I still have questions about putting on mass without carbs, but I have not found anything that would convince me that if calorie levels are high, protein and fat consumption is every three hours , why one would not put on mass. What would happen to someone, like me, that is around 196-200 pounds if I were to consume 5000 calories a day of fat and protein with very limited carbs? Would I lose weight? (that does not seem very likely), would I just put on fat? (not sure how that would work either), or would I see no gains at all? I am just trying to understand why carbs are required.
 
carbs are required because insulin is the most anabolic hormone in our body, and carbs also increase leptin levels.
 
pinoy, hmmm... I disagree. You do an insulin only cycle and have your twin do a test only cycle at fairly high doses, with the same routine and see who gains the most lbm. I can assure you it will not be the insulin twin. You do not need a great deal of insulin to greatly enhance protien sythesis in muscle cells. You can get enough simply from eating protien. The higher blood sugar levels associated with higher carbohydrate intake also lowers many other anabolic hormones in the body such as hgh and a number of prostaglandins. I don't belive in continual low carbs, but rather in period carb ups, much like a CKD, to maximize the anabolic environment present. Perhaps that was not made clear on this thread. The massive bodybuilders and strongmen who do low carbs, do a cyclic diet. Alot of this has been covered in overheads other thread though, as well as some creditionals behind this theory. Its still on the active page on this forum.
 
One thing on the post workout carbs, do you believe that like some studies have stated, that carbs within an hour of the end of a workout, or prior to bed, greatly reduce growth hormone production? And, if so, would the insulin spike be more beneficial than the gh production?
 
BodyByFinaplix said:
I know overhead, Kaz is a dumbass, doesn't he know if you just ate some rice instead of eating such low carbs he could be 450 ibs with a 1000 ibs bench? Same here. I mean everyone at the gym wants to know my diet, drug stacks and everything because they think its impossible to be where I am with such a short amount of training time under my belt. Damn, if I had just been eating carbs for the last 3 years I could look like Ronnie Coleman. I feel so stupid now.
If you think Kaz is a dumbass then you are a dumbass. Kaz was just one of the strongest men ever. Definitely the strongest guy in wsm. He also had a killer physique(over 300lb lbm). If he ate tons of carbs I dout it would make a difference. And I am sure low carbs means alot more than you think.
 
dood said:

If you think Kaz is a dumbass then you are a dumbass. Kaz was just one of the strongest men ever. Definitely the strongest guy in wsm. He also had a killer physique(over 300lb lbm). If he ate tons of carbs I dout it would make a difference. And I am sure low carbs means alot more than you think.

I think you missed the point, he was being sarcastic.
 
dood, its ok, I can see how you missread that. Let me clairify for anyone who didn't understand. I was being sarcastic. Kaz is a bad mofo. He's not only freakishly big, his strength is unbelievable. He believed in eating low carbs. People keep pointing out that individuals like Kaz accoplished this IN SPITE of not eating carbs, or by following a low carb diet. As though the low carbs made it more difficlut for them to achieve this. In effect they are saying, Kaz probably could have been bigger and stronger had he eaten lots of carbs. I doubt it. What these people, and others who believe in low carb bulking for bodybuilders and/or powerlifters is that for reasons we feel are reasonable theories based on solid science, it may actually be beneficial, if not for everyone then at least for some people, to use low carbs for gaining lbm and strength. That Kaz and other low-carb mass monsters actually achieved what they did in part because of their nutrition plan. Clearly those of that mindset are a minority at this time.
 
sounds like we have louden swain one one side of the fence, pushing hi carbs; and BBF on the other side of the fence pushing low carbs.

BBF had posted pics of his diet and workouts results.....

how about some pics from louden swain showing HIS diet and work out results?
 
Hey BBF: What was your bf% in the pictures you recently posted? And were you "low carbing" at the time around those pictures were taken?


Needsize: I hope you can chime in this thread and say what you are doing in terms of diet recently. You are definitely looking much leaner, but you still look huge. Give us some insight if you don't mind man.
 
I get around 3500-4000 cals a day roughly, enough that I should be getting a bit fat, but I stay leanish, tell me.... what does this mean?


I think it all has to do with metabolisim.
 
Hey Louden, would you then agree that it is possible for some to grow without eating huge numbers of carbs? If I ate like you guys I would be at 30% body fat.
 
overhead said:
Hey Louden, would you then agree that it is possible for some to grow without eating huge numbers of carbs? If I ate like you guys I would be at 30% body fat.

It depends on the metabolism.

If you have a slow metabolism and are able to gain weight fast. . . then you don't need as many carbs.

I preach high carbs because:

- I need the fuel for heavy intense training sessions
- I want the extra calories for weight gain
- I need muscles that are full
- I need high carbs for mental energy

On a low carb diet. . .I would never make it. I was down to competition condition in 1998 on a low carb diet. . my strength was stagnate and so was my progress.
 
overhead said:
I can understand that. I also know many people that cannot function and feel like crap on a keto diet. I am not one of them, I have been overweight most of my life, so I know how to gain weight. My problem is including the carbs at above 100-200 grams a day , I lay down fat in a big hurry. I currently eat about 2500 cals a day with only 20 of those being carbs, not counting the carb up day. Trying to drop fat before I attempt to gain some mass and strength. When I get closer to 10% body fat I plan on comsuming 4000-5000 cals a day, but still keeping carbs low. We will see if I gain mass or not. Either way it will be posted up on the diet board, so good or bad results, everyone will know .

The important thing is to listen to your body. Sometimes you will need to use trial and error to determine what works best.

I wish you luck and it seems like you are following a reasonable plan that works for you.
 
I can understand that. I also know many people that cannot function and feel like crap on a keto diet. I am not one of them, I have been overweight most of my life, so I know how to gain weight. My problem is including the carbs at above 100-200 grams a day , I lay down fat in a big hurry. I currently eat about 2500 cals a day with only 20 of those being carbs, not counting the carb up day. Trying to drop fat before I attempt to gain some mass and strength. When I get closer to 10% body fat I plan on comsuming 4000-5000 cals a day, but still keeping carbs low. We will see if I gain mass or not. Either way it will be posted up on the diet board, so good or bad results, everyone will know .
 
I believe in a moderate carb intake, 1-1.5 times your BW in grams. DC also prescribes moderate carbs in his diet, especially because of the carb cutoff time. Considering this is just about the most intense routine you could embark upon, obviously we're getting enough energy. Protein is required for growth, carbs are not.
 
I followed DC's program , or something close to it for about a month. I enjoyed it, worked well for me. But, the diet he suggests (which probably works for most people) caused me to gain an unexceptable amount of fat. If took me a while to notice, thought all the gains were muscle but they were not. I still like the program, I just do not follow it anymore becuase I decided my goals did not include body building, I like the power lifting stuff a little more.
 
i'm kinda fucked up. i gain weight VERY easily. only gain fat if i go way overboard on the crappy shit. so i get huge gains in LBM if i try to.

i went on keto a couple times..didnt feel too bad after the first week or two but my strength was WAY low. i'm talking benching 135 for a few reps then being tired, when lots of people make PRs on keto diets.

i lose bodyfat very easy if i just add in some cardio and eat just a little cleaner

of course, i am young, but i think most of us are relatively young anyway
 
I don't know but for me when I cut carbs I just seem to shrivel up to nothing. I went on a *moderate* low carb diet about 2 months ago and went from 240lbs to 208lbs in like a month and a half. I just looked really flat, and well.........skinny. :confused:
 
BlkWS6 said:
I don't know but for me when I cut carbs I just seem to shrivel up to nothing. I went on a *moderate* low carb diet about 2 months ago and went from 240lbs to 208lbs in like a month and a half. I just looked really flat, and well.........skinny. :confused:

Except for in my opinion you were not moderate low, you were quite low. If I recall correctly you were eating somewhere close to 100-150 grams of carbs at that point, which I think is to little.
 
Originally posted by RusPA81


Except for in my opinion you were not moderate low, you were quite low. If I recall correctly you were eating somewhere close to 100-150 grams of carbs at that point, which I think is to little.


Well I started out in that range, but in fact towards the end I think I went even lower (<100/day) I got stoked when I started to see some results so I lowered my carb intake even more (thinking more is better) and I lost a lot of size. Im guessing my caloric intake was too low, but at the same rate I was trying to lose weight. I guess in reality I should have expected to lose quite a bit of size when dieting naturally, but I was shocked to have lost almost 40lbs in such a short period of time.
 
Originally posted by overhead
How many cals a day were you eating, and did you carb up at all?

I would carb up a little on the weekends. About one "cheat" meal over the weekend.
 
BlkWS6 said:
Originally posted by overhead
How many cals a day were you eating, and did you carb up at all?

I would carb up a little on the weekends. About one "cheat" meal over the weekend.

You were such a nerd for those few weeks. You wouldn't anything fun. I had a cheat meal everyday.:D
 
this is just my opinion, but on most diets if you are losing more than 2 pounds a week too much muscle is going along with the fat.
 
I'm with Finaplix.

This thread has covered a good bit of ground, so I have two points to make: 1, that eating huge meals is not ideal, and I'll cite specific examples from pro bbing to support my case; and 2, that high carbs definitely *aren't* necessary to get big, again with specifics.

And yes, this will be long. If that offends somebody they need to go read a book...say, _War and Peace_. Hell, read a comic book--THEN come tell me this is long ;)

Big Meals:

I mean no disrespect to anyone, and I will admit that I enjoy buffets, but I think eating a lot at one sitting is sending the wrong message. They're great as a psychological reward after a hard workout, but let's look at the big picture...if you're eating huge meals on a frequent basis, are all those calories fueling growth?

Fat growth maybe, but LBM gains are a different story. Consistency is the key there, and I'll tell you why.

Most of us, including powerlifters, Olympic lifters and bodybuilders, aren't EXTREMELY active, agreed?

Since we're not overly active, the simple fact of the matter is, we can only use so many calories at one time. When we sit down to a 2,500 kcal meal (or whatever), the unnecessary calories are just turned to fat. The fact that those huge meals play havoc with your metabolism, the "feast before famine" scenario, makes this worse. Our bodies actually are quicker to hold onto fat stores than they ordinarily would be, so we're hit with a double-whammy.

We can see this in a large no. of bodybuilders. Nasser El Sonbaty is a good example.

When Nasser was the no. 2 guy in the world, he ate a lot, but he didn't gorge too many of his daily kcal in single sittings. He spread things out among 7-8 meals/day IIRC.

In recent years, though, it's said that Nasser is maybe eating heavily twice a day. Look at him now...the poor guy is considered an also-ran. He can't get into the same condition he used to.

Flex Wheeler is the same way. When he was at his very best, in early 1993 and early 1998, he was eating somewhere around 8-9 small meals a day, fairly low-carb, high protein, moderate fat fare (chicken breasts, steak, nuts, some veggies, peanut butter). His conditioning was just incredible. If he could reproduce that form he could probably dethrone King Ronnie. I KNOW he would whip Cutler and Schlierkampf.

But look at him in almost any other year, when he's admitted that he ate lots of pizza, ice cream and didn't eat super-frequent meals. You'll see that his glutes were "jiggly" fat. His lower back and hamstrings were very smooth. That kills the illusion his physique creates. He went from being the king to a guy that can't hold the big guys' jock straps.

How about Lee Priest?

It's no secret that he pigs out in his offseason and just gets FAT, sloppy fat sometimes. He talks about eating tubs of ice cream, tons of cheeseburgers and a bunch of other junk all at once...

Are we seeing a pattern here?

Remember, this is even WORSE for non-assisted trainers. Most pros do clen and T3 year-round, even when bulking. Natural guys, especially those who are no longer teenagers with super-fast metabolisms, would DEFINITELY get fat if they made large meals/eating too much at once a habit. I see it in people from my gym all the time.

To clarify, I am not stating a dichotomy--that you can either eat frequent meals OR shovel it in with a few meals.

No...I imagine you could eat at a buffet and still get your 7 daily meals. BUT, the large meals thing is ALWAYS going to be counterproductive in the long run. And don't make conceits...yes, a little fat gain is inevitable, but you CAN curtail that. It's just a matter of balls to the wall discipline. You have to punish yourself in AND out of the gym, including at the supper table.

No one said it'd be easy. But it IS doable, and the less experienced and more impressionable posters here deserve to know that.

Carbs:

Some people handle carbs a little differently, but I definitely think a moderate carb approach is best for "safe" bulking. Most people, especially non-trainers, are fatter than ever, yet they're not eating as much fried foods or quite as much protein, beef specifically. They bought into the low-fat craze (read: higher carbs), and they're fatter still!

And sure, someone could say that Kaz or Jumbo Palumbo are just "freaks" for their success with that, but that's a BIG appeal to ignorance fallacy: one could say the same thing for the rare few guys who advocate very high carbs; e.g., big mouth also-ran Gary Strydom.

I say that "logic" is a dead end. Besides, Kaz and Dave Palumbo aren't the only guys who do low-moderate carbs for bulking. Milos Sarcev is a high protein, low carb guy. So's Tom Prince and Chris Cormier. I know Dogg recommends mod. carbs, and he's not exactly a small guy :) I'm pretty sure Trevor Smith isn't too big on carbing out either, and he's close to 400 lbs.

Low-carbs aren't for everyone. And I bet this'll never be resolved. That's okay; we can't all agree on EVERYTHING :)

But again, I do think it's important for the young'uns to see both sides. Large meals, high or low carb--that's something they'll have to decide on their own.
 
I dont think big meals are a good thing either but do feel carbs are needed to bulk,40% being high carbs in my opinion
 
overhead::I followed DC's program , or something close to it for about a month. I enjoyed it, worked well for me. But, the diet he suggests (which probably works for most people) caused me to gain an unexceptable amount of fat.

Doggcrapp:: thats kind of confusing to me because Ive never gone over exact specifics of diet anywhere--just hit on the basics--because I get very detailed with diet with the people who pay me to train them. My diet you never combine fats around a potential insulin release (or carb intake) and ive never gone over that on any board and wont.
 
I was basing it on the general outline that I read on the cycling for pennies thread. I really do not want to dig it up, so correct if I am wrong. But, I remember reading something about not counting calories, loads of protein and cutting off carbs after 6pm or somewhere in that area. I also remember something about you adjusting peoples carb cut off time with gains in fat or increasing cardio. But, being that specifics were not mentioned that was all I had to go on so that is what I did. I did not pay you for training, and only had the thread to go by, I really cannot say how I would do on the diet that you give to people that you train. I have no way of knowing what that is.
 
And, I believe in my post I said I followed your program or something close to it. I certainly do not think that I claimed in any way that I was being trained by you personally, or that I followed your program to the letter.
 
No problem overhead--I guess I posted more to say that I dont post on specifics of my diet because many people have been asking me where Ive posted on it (and i havent except for a little bit of basics)--I hope you dont think I was pissed at you I just wanted to clarify for the masses on that one--take care.
 
Guldukat - very well said. Nutrition is 80% of the game, IMO, and the quality of food (carbs/pro/fat) is an important factor easily overlooked by many trainees when bulking. Yes, it's hard to get the amount of kcals necessary when eating clean macro sources, but that's why we eat 6-8 times/day. :-)
 
Yeah Doggcrapp, I guess I was a little defensive. Just to be clear I stopped using a dc style workout becuase it did not fit my goals, not becuase it did not work. I did not mess with carb levels enough to know if I could find a level that would work or not. I really do not want to just load up on mass, I am not interested in BB, I play hockey and surf so it was not the best program for me.
I was curious about some opinions, do you think that a diet that works well for one type of person my not work well for another, or with small adjustments should the same diet work for most people? Personally I have found that if I eat like some suggested I end up putting on lots of fat.
 
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