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Big Rick Rock
istrator
Are we running out of room? Or is there plenty of room left?
What is your opinion?
What is your opinion?
Earth's over population. Fact or Myth?
- Thread starter Big Rick Rock
- Start date
heavy_duty
New member
Tons and tons of room in Canada.
We could handle another 100 million.
We could handle another 100 million.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
heavy_duty said:
Good point. I do know that Canada has a very kind attitude towards new immigrants. This must be a factor...
Question though:
People occupy room, but it takes "room" to feed people as well. Or rather to grow/raise the food that will feed these people...
Canada has a short growing season, does that become a factor?
FYI- I started this thread my mind being right in the middle. I just don;t know enough to take either side... I hope by the 20th page I can be leaning some way...
heavy_duty
New member
hmm.
well our whole country doesnt have the same growing season, BUT it sure aint 365 that's for sure.
well our whole country doesnt have the same growing season, BUT it sure aint 365 that's for sure.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
musclemom said:
Good point...
Do you think today's human beings are just not doing their best to minimize their waste?
I know a lot of people who are clueless about recycling or reusing some of what they would call "garbage".... Do you think if people would be as diligent in minimizing their effect on the earth as they are in grooming themselves, there could be room for more humans?
Do you think that pigs would fly before the majority of humans would make an effort to minimize their waste?
#
Here's what I love about your average American high school graduated, some college educated, urban/suburban dweller (and I'm saying this with NO malice or insult intended): They don't have a clue.Big Rick Rock said:
Safe healthy water comes out of the tap, electricity comes out of the wall, food comes from the supermarket, trash goes on the curb, shit goes down the toilet. It's like some giant David Copperfield act. As long as you get up, go to your job, collect your paycheck and give money to these various companies the magic act will go on eternally.
WTF would they do if the infrastructure suddenly wasn't there?
This planet does NOT possess unlimited resources. Petroleum WILL be gone some day, they ain't making no more dinosaurs; potable water is limited; farmable land that can sustain livestock in a benign climate is limited. This shit all has limits. The sea has limits. We cannot continue to just USE, USE, USE, USE. Okay, maybe it won't run out in my lifetime, your lifetime, your children's children's children's children's lifetime, but it WILL run out. Just like Y2K, it will happen and burying our heads in the sand will not make that fact change. Treating this world like everything will always be there, that there will always be enough and plenty is just being irresponsible as SHIT to the future. Just as you prepare a college fund for your child, you need to make sure they will have the resources you had. It is our responsibility to take reasonable care, to not be wasteful and to teach the next generation to do the same.
But christ, not only are industrial humans not doing their best to minimize waste, they encourage MORE waste. From little things, like how many Americans leave the tap running while they do dishes or brush their teeth or reuse grocery bags to big things, like getting a new vehicle every year that has a big gas guzzling engines when a smaller engine or last year's model would do or having their thermostat set above 70 when 5 degrees lower would do. We encourage people to buy, buy, buy, buy, and then create entire industries that revolve around the packaging that encases the products we're buying.
Shit, here's a good one, how many people take 2 or more showers a day and the dirtiest thing they've done all day is go to the gym once? That water runs over your body and goes into the sewer system and is ruined. That's 8 or more gallons of perfectly drinkable water, every day. We don't think twice about it. There are parts of the world bathing is a fantasy.
People MOCK the concept of conservation of ANY resource (this forum is guilty of that). Try to live a little greener and you're a pussy or a tree hugger, and those are dirty words. But NOT conserving and not teaching conservation we are doing a disservice to the future generations.
And why do you think we have tons of unoccupied space there? No water. No water to drink, no water to grow crops, no water to put out fires.Vagabino said:
Look at ANY map that shows population densities, humans ALWAYS cluster around the coastal regions, salt water, fresh water, it doesn't matter. Water is a MAJOR bitch to transport, actually harder than electricity if you think about it, and there is NOTHING that is an adequate substitute for it.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
I think there is a HUGE misconception about how limited fossil fuels really are...
Oil is very limited in its liquid form... But if you looked at Oil sands and even solid oil, we have enough to run the planet for hundreds of years more. The problem is that these forms of Oil are very expensive to convert into usable Oil... But the process is known and has been known for hundreds of years. I heard once that there is more energy in them form of Oil Sands and Solids in our planet than there has ever been liquid Oil...
Crazy right?
Oil is very limited in its liquid form... But if you looked at Oil sands and even solid oil, we have enough to run the planet for hundreds of years more. The problem is that these forms of Oil are very expensive to convert into usable Oil... But the process is known and has been known for hundreds of years. I heard once that there is more energy in them form of Oil Sands and Solids in our planet than there has ever been liquid Oil...
Crazy right?
We are fine with the amount of room, but are have more population than the earth can support naturally.
Thousands of humans die daily from starvation. Without modern science (as pertains to farming) we would be unable to feed the entire earth's population.
Oil I am not so concerned about, we have a great energy source (the sun) that we will not run out of anytime soon. We as humans were just stupid and went the easier route and created all sorts of dependencies on oil. One day we'll live from Energy from the sun (possibly some nuclear sources) only.
Thousands of humans die daily from starvation. Without modern science (as pertains to farming) we would be unable to feed the entire earth's population.
Oil I am not so concerned about, we have a great energy source (the sun) that we will not run out of anytime soon. We as humans were just stupid and went the easier route and created all sorts of dependencies on oil. One day we'll live from Energy from the sun (possibly some nuclear sources) only.
I'm not worried about too many people, I just don't want to deal with any more idiots than I have to.
rsnoble-im-back
Banned
I like George Carlin's view on this: "Humans will never destroy the earth, when the time is right this planet will just shake us off like a bunch of fleas."
Big Rick Rock
istrator
Lestat said:
You know... I might be in disagreement with you there.
For every person that dies from starvation daily, their weight in food is being tossed in the trash somewhere else. I don't have a source to support this statement. I just remember working at catering halls as a kid and seeing trash bags full of food (some times untouched) get tossed in the garbage. On a good weekend , every catering hall in the world is throwing away enough food to feed the starving children of the world for at least one more day...
That, plus the fact we are Animal and can eat almost anything plant or animal. If the supermarkets closed down, I can hunt/gather the food I need without traveling too far (I live in the burbs). Sure, I might have to set some Squirrel and Bird traps and take the boat out to go fishing. The Ducks that hang out at the local pond would be prime targets too... If it got bad enough, some of these fucking stray cats in the neighborhood would be making their way to my plate. This is worst case scenario we are talking about here.
As long as the planet grows vegetation that can support animals, who can in turn be food for other Animals. There will never be a shortage of food.
ponyfitness
New member
Lestat said:
The sun will never be harnessed properly because nobody can make money off of it. You can't own the sun (or hopefully nobody figures out a way to otherwise we're screwed). Our society is based on resources that people can charge lots of money for. Biodiesel fuel would give us all a clean, long lasting fuel source for our cars - so would electric power - but they get crushed by the oil companies so they can make more money.
If solar power or even wind was affordable then everyone would use it. My father looked into getting windmills installed at his farm (wind all the time) to use for power and it would have cost him $250,000.
As for the human race, I think we encourage overpopulation and overconsumption by doing things like giving people more money for having more babies - basically rewarding irresponsibility.
DannoMight
New member
we'll all be eating soylent green in no time
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
when there is a population explosion there is always a population crash. you can't beat nature no matter how hard you try. nature will regulate. nature likes to level things out. according to scientists at 8 billion things will get very hairy, and we are at 6 billion now. if you live in nj/ny area then you definitely know there is way too many fuck load of people. we are still on the population explosion side which is not good.
Inhibitor13
New member
Im not for war or anything but I do believe that it really helps with the population thing. I forget how many yrs it was, but America has been in some kind of war every some odd yrs. Its weird what a war can actually do to a country. It helped get us out of a depression and now I think its about to put us in one.
Big Rick Rock
istrator
fistfullofsteel said:
I live in that area. There is plenty of room here. I'm in Nassau and there are parks and green fields all over. Every house has a yard in front and back.
If you drive east towards Suffolk for 15mins, there are spreads of untouched land. I go to play Paintball at Corom every summer, nothing but woodlands as far as the eye can see. Manhattan is crowded, but thats part of its appeal. People want to go live there for that same reason. You travel 45mins away from Manhattan in any direction (with good traffic), and you are basically in the sticks.
Some people have pointed out that you could put the entire Earth's population in Texas and the population density would still be less than a city like Tokyo.
I think we could do with a lot less people, myself, especially as standards of living improve in the "3rd World" regions. Supporting a middle-class lifestyle for that many people would tax our resources and environment well past any reasonable limit. So unless we wish to maintain a vast dirt-poor worldwide underclass, some way to encourage depopulation should be desirable.
I think we could do with a lot less people, myself, especially as standards of living improve in the "3rd World" regions. Supporting a middle-class lifestyle for that many people would tax our resources and environment well past any reasonable limit. So unless we wish to maintain a vast dirt-poor worldwide underclass, some way to encourage depopulation should be desirable.
Powerbuilder333
Timeout? No, timeouts are for Plats
That's the motivation for my mandatory sterilization campaign.blueta2 said:
Everybody should have just one opportunity a child rearing. At the first fuck up - out with the ovaries, off with the testicles.
fistfullofsteel
Well-known member
Big Rick Rock said:
if you go 45 minutes east you hit long island and 45 minutes west the edge of nj or pa and you consider that the sticks? having a front yard and back yard doesn't mean you have plenty of room. having a few parks doesn't mean you have plenty of room. come to nj and see them chop down everything in sight and put up cheat ass disgusting condos and you might think different.
yeah, but google the concept of EROEI which is Energy Returned On Energy Invested... We survive by getting 20x (at least) the energy out of oil that it takes to pump it. It used to be 70x, but not many free flow wells left.Big Rick Rock said:
Tar Sands/Keragen shale oil = 1.5x (or worse). We cant survive with an order of magnitude 10x lower energy output from our energy input.
javaguru said:
It's expensive now when we have millions of barrels of oil to waste to get these alternative fuels. If the supply/demand curve gets tighter, or when supply is outstripped by demand, it will be cost prohibitively expensive for shale oil. If it takes heating an area for around a year to get shale oil to flow, how can we afford to do that for 20million barrels a day?
yeah, been thinking bout that for 20 years and it hasnt happened for some reason. H3 would be a great fuel for power plants if we could ever get enough of it home.javaguru said:
javaguru
Banned
I wonder what it would take for nuclear reactions to be "sellable" to the public. We have breeder reactor technology that is 95% efficient when it comes to waste and with the research into making U238 fissionable we could provide energy for thousands of years at current usage.juiceddreadlocks said:
I dont remember the number of years when taking the quality of fuel down 1 notch, but every time you do it dont you get around 10x the amount of fuel? Fast breeder reactors are the most efficient right now aren't they?javaguru said:
javaguru
Banned
Breeders can also use Thorium as a fuel source, one reason they are attractive. Technically, all reactors "breed" more fissionable material to a degree and it has increased as designs have advanced. I don't know the exact numbers but efficiency has been favorable to nuclear over fossil fuel for generation of electricity.juiceddreadlocks said:
The US is still operating early generation reactors and the third generation reactors are very efficient. France and Russia lead in the technology...
