Don't want to do anything stupid...

[testionate]

... but want more rapid results.

53 yrs old
180 cyp week
500 iu HCG 2x week
gym w/weights 3x week
Ok with physique but 25 - 30 lbs fat to lose

Do I need to increase cyp? Seems like nothing. Should I add anything else? Don't want to screw with libido unless it's to increase it. Advice please?

 

[Zyglamail]

How is this thread any different than the other one you started?

I get the impression you arent happy with the advice you got in other thread so started a new one.

The fact of the matter is your not going to find a quick pharmaceutical fix for a little belly fat. Its collected there for a reason, fix the reason and the belly fat will go away. Ignoring the underlying cause may offer a temporary fix but its not going to stay gone until you address the underlying problem.

If you want a quick fix for ab fat and arent willing to look at your diet and nutritional needs then get liposuction.

 

[joeblow12345]

I concur with zyg. Diet is the key here not drugs. But I'd also increase and improve training. Add in some cardio and up the intensity and frequency of workouts and your good.

Sent from my XT1080 using EliteFitness

 

[testionate]

Thought rephrasing might get different answers. So 180 mg cyp/week is plenty? Not feelin it here. Thought at least increasing test wouldn't hurt and might help. No one addressed that in the other thread. No offense intended.

 

[stevesmi]

increasing more juice isn't going to magically decrease your fat.. you shouldn't be juicing to begin with being overweight.. its going to make your problem worse not better. you do realize test typically increase appetite and cravings right? good luck trying to lose weight when you are craving food all day and night

as I said before run my shredder stack which is safe for overweight http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...edder-stack-non-suppressive-safe-1279153.html

 

[testionate]

Steve - pm sent. Thanks.

 

[Zyglamail]

Thought rephrasing might get different answers. So 180 mg cyp/week is plenty? Not feelin it here. Thought at least increasing test wouldn't hurt and might help. No one addressed that in the other thread. No offense intended.

That 180mg test/wk, combined with the HCG you are taking is a very large weekly test dose for TRT. That kind of dose is generally reserved for people who are in shape and have a very long history of working out and even then usually within 6 months or so it will cause problems with elevated RBC etc.

Fat collects in specific areas of the body in relation to certain hormones. Belly and chest fat in men is common and almost always tied to cortisol levels which is related to adrenal fatigue which is greatly influenced by underactive thyroid which also directly affects test levels.

You have belly fat and low test, so do I and unlike most people here I can sympathize that its not always as easy as just diet and exercise, there can and often are other forces at work which make no amount of diet and exercise the solution and unless you address those issues anything else will be just a temporary fix.

 

[bodybyg]

You're only in the gym 3 days a week. How about 5-6 days with the additional 2-3 devoted to cardio? I'm 47 next month, been training for 30 years. It gets tougher to shed bodyfat when you get 45 plus. Everything has to be in order, mostly diet, and, if you can't control your bodyfat with diet, increase cardio. You need to lift more than 3 days a week also, with more intensity and sets per bodypart. Train 1 bodypart per day and crush it with at least 20 sets for major parts. I would be willing to bet you aren't doing that.

 

[Zyglamail]

if you can't control your bodyfat with diet, increase cardio. You need to lift more than 3 days a week also, with more intensity and sets per bodypart. Train 1 bodypart per day and crush it with at least 20 sets for major parts. I would be willing to bet you aren't doing that.

I realize your just trying to help and your advice may work for a lot of people but those that think that diet and exercise alone can always get ride of bodyfat and if not add more cardio are sadly mistaken.

Why is it so easily accepted around here that AAS builds muscle but when it comes to losing fat, if you cant lose it your lazy and have no self control. If ones ability to gain muscle can be directly associated with taking AAS then why cant ones inability to lose fat be directly related to ones ability to produce T3?

As for training, if you can goto the gym and in a single week do 20 sets of heavy deadlift, 20 sets of heavy backsquats and say 20 sets of rows and 20 sets of RDL's your a much better man than me.

 

[bodybyg]

I understand what you are saying and agree Zyglamail. Just making sure that the basics of getting in the gym more than 3 days a week and training hard are covered. As far as the 20 sets I mean per major bodypart. 20 sets for back, 20 for legs, etc. Less for biceps, triceps, calves, etc.

 

[stevesmi]

I think the OP definitely needs to stop being lazy and he will be the first to admit it but yeah ziggie is right not everyone will react to just diet and cardio unfortunately. some of us have genetic issues or have over years developed negative implications of our lifestyles

when I was younger I could eat whatever I wanted and I stayed skinny.. i was the skinny fast kid at recess.. then once i got older and the metabolism slowed down i had to be much more strict about my diet.

 

[Zyglamail]

I understand what you are saying and agree Zyglamail. Just making sure that the basics of getting in the gym more than 3 days a week and training hard are covered. As far as the 20 sets I mean per major bodypart. 20 sets for back, 20 for legs, etc. Less for biceps, triceps, calves, etc.

Depending on how one trains more than 3 days a week may not be needed. Think Yates and Mentzer for example.

Personally I dont do "bodypart" training. I dont do curls, leg extension and all that BS. Heavy compound movements with a little support work for things like rotator cuffs etc.

For the longest time I used to think people that couldnt drop a few pound were either lazy and not working out like they said or had no self control and werent eating as clean as they said but over the years there has been a common theme here and all over the internet.

There are people from all walks of life who diet and train religiously and simply do not get the results one would expect. Sure, many people lie about their diet and workout ethic but do they all? Could they all simply be lieing? Or is there more to it? If there is more to it, then what is it.

Having been at these forums for over 13 years now you start to see trends. You see people who when asked clearly are not putting in the required effort to control weight and stay in shape. But then there is a significant portion who truly seem to be trying. When questioned about their lifestyle, sleeping habits, hormone levels and other potential medical issues you start to see a lot of common denominators. localized excess fat collection, low energy, often low sex hormones, inability to sleep, moodiness, brain fog and the list goes on.

Many of these people have seen their doctor and told everything is fine and all lab values are in range but yet they struggle. The human body strives for homeostasis so if exercise is taking place and even a modicum of clean eating is taking place the body will strive for a fit and healthy fat level. So when people really are trying and trying hard and its still not happening its because there is something else wrong and it cant be fixed with drugs.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I realize your just trying to help and your advice may work for a lot of people but those that think that diet and exercise alone can always get ride of bodyfat and if not add more cardio are sadly mistaken.

Why is it so easily accepted around here that AAS builds muscle but when it comes to losing fat, if you cant lose it your lazy and have no self control. If ones ability to gain muscle can be directly associated with taking AAS then why cant ones inability to lose fat be directly related to ones ability to produce T3?

As for training, if you can goto the gym and in a single week do 20 sets of heavy deadlift, 20 sets of heavy backsquats and say 20 sets of rows and 20 sets of RDL's your a much better man than me.

His thyroid is likely in the shitter. Armour would likely do him a world of good. Too bad every doc in the world would want to prescribe T4 instead.
Taking AAS beats the shit out of your thyroid. At your age OP, your thyroid is already slow as hell. You are going to compound your problem. Fuck, I;m 37 and I have hypo in my family and from likely AAS use I have made the hypo even worse. I now take 60mg Armour 2xED and 25mcg T3 in the A.m.
I would recommend getting the proper blood work done before hand.

 

[testionate]

His thyroid is likely in the shitter. Armour would likely do him a world of good. Too bad every doc in the world would want to prescribe T4 instead.
Taking AAS beats the shit out of your thyroid. At your age OP, your thyroid is already slow as hell. You are going to compound your problem. Fuck, I;m 37 and I have hypo in my family and from likely AAS use I have made the hypo even worse. I now take 60mg Armour 2xED and 25mcg T3 in the A.m.
I would recommend getting the proper blood work done before hand.

Glancing at Armour, T3 and T4, it looks like what I might be looking for. I'll get a blood test and get my thyroid tested and see what my doc says. Bustin my ass for no change sucks. Thanks for the direction!!

 

[nh3master]

yeah get that thyroid checked, been there done it, 51 yrs old an on 100mcg a day. food is not your friend with hypo thyroid.

 

[stevesmi]

His thyroid is likely in the shitter. Armour would likely do him a world of good. Too bad every doc in the world would want to prescribe T4 instead.
Taking AAS beats the shit out of your thyroid. At your age OP, your thyroid is already slow as hell. You are going to compound your problem. Fuck, I;m 37 and I have hypo in my family and from likely AAS use I have made the hypo even worse. I now take 60mg Armour 2xED and 25mcg T3 in the A.m.
I would recommend getting the proper blood work done before hand.

I would assume tren would be the #1 AAS to crippling the thyroid.

is that what you think you abused to have this current problem?

 

[Zyglamail]

Glancing at Armour, T3 and T4, it looks like what I might be looking for. I'll get a blood test and get my thyroid tested and see what my doc says. Bustin my ass for no change sucks. Thanks for the direction!!

The problem with T4 is your body needs ample selenium for the enzyme to convert it to T3. Most people are not only deficient in iodine (main building block of thyroid hormones) but also selenium so the 2 need to be supplemented together.

Armour seems to be the best option but before going down that road proper supplementation to bring thyroid back online would be the wisest choice.

The problems with labs for thyroid is that unless they are above/below range the doc says your fine and everyone believes them. Remember this isnt about being broken or not its about percentage of optimal.

Everyone here knows that a natural test level of 900 is better than a test level of 300 but both are in range and by many docs your fine with either number but how you feel with either of those numbers is a world apart.

The same logic applies to thyroid function. Just a few tenths of a point can mean the world of difference between not only how you feel but how the rest of your body functions.

 

[Zyglamail]

I would assume tren would be the #1 AAS to crippling the thyroid.

is that what you think you abused to have this current problem?

Personally, based on information I have seen from othermolecular docs, a large portion of those with hypo issues can be easily returned to optimal health with proper supplementation. Those that cant be returned to optimal thyroid function with supplementation alone generally need much less armour when supplementation is employed.

There is a lot more to thyroid function than just lack of base nutrients for proper creations and synthesis of thyroid homeones but there is an abundance of competing elements we are flooded with every day.

Iodine is a halide, so is fluoride, bromide and a few others. We are exposed to massive amounts of the other unneeded/toxic halides daily and are deficient in iodine. That means that in addition to low iodine intake we force out what little we do get with an abundance of the unneeded toxic halides.

Even if a person does get ample iodine (which Dr Brownstein for example found only 5% of his many thousand patients did) its forced out by other halides.

Let me try and put this into terms many here will understand.

think of clomid/nolva, they are a couple oestrogens that bind to the estrogen receptor but dont activate it. However since they bind to the same receptor as estrogen they prevent estrogen from binding and doing its thing.

bromide/fluoride and the other halogens basically act like clomid in the example above the compete at the receptor level with iodine so iodine cant do its job. So not only do we need iodine in ample quantities to meet our bodies needs we actually need more because it has to directly compete with the other halides we are bombarded with.

Most of us in the US have been drinking fluoridated water our whole life, this displaces iodine. No wonder there is a hypo epidemic in this country.

 

[testionate]

I would assume tren would be the #1 AAS to crippling the thyroid.

is that what you think you abused to have this current problem?

Never done Tren before.

 

[testionate]

The problem with T4 is your body needs ample selenium for the enzyme to convert it to T3. Most people are not only deficient in iodine (main building block of thyroid hormones) but also selenium so the 2 need to be supplemented together.

Armour seems to be the best option but before going down that road proper supplementation to bring thyroid back online would be the wisest choice.

The problems with labs for thyroid is that unless they are above/below range the doc says your fine and everyone believes them. Remember this isnt about being broken or not its about percentage of optimal.

Everyone here knows that a natural test level of 900 is better than a test level of 300 but both are in range and by many docs your fine with either number but how you feel with either of those numbers is a world apart.

The same logic applies to thyroid function. Just a few tenths of a point can mean the world of difference between not only how you feel but how the rest of your body functions.

Makes sense. Thanks.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I would assume tren would be the #1 AAS to crippling the thyroid.

is that what you think you abused to have this current problem?

Only used tren once bro. For 3 weeks. Too angry. Its likely just hereditary hurried along by lots of test use.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Glancing at Armour, T3 and T4, it looks like what I might be looking for. I'll get a blood test and get my thyroid tested and see what my doc says. Bustin my ass for no change sucks. Thanks for the direction!!

No, t3 and t4 are Not what you are after. Theres a big difference between natural dessicated thyroid hormones found in armour and synthetic t3 and t4. Night and day responses in the body. ......and I can tell you what your doctor will do.....he will probably order half, if that, of the blood work you really need for thyroid then tell you everything is within range and you are fine. But probably be more than willing to prescribe you synthroid which they get kickbacks from. If your doctor goes off your tsh....punch him in the throat. Thats the first sign of a completely incompitent shit pile doctor. Im warning you ahead of time 99% of doctors know NOTHING about thyroid.

 

[digit0x]

Personally, based on information I have seen from othermolecular docs, a large portion of those with hypo issues can be easily returned to optimal health with proper supplementation. Those that cant be returned to optimal thyroid function with supplementation alone generally need much less armour when supplementation is employed.

There is a lot more to thyroid function than just lack of base nutrients for proper creations and synthesis of thyroid homeones but there is an abundance of competing elements we are flooded with every day.

Iodine is a halide, so is fluoride, bromide and a few others. We are exposed to massive amounts of the other unneeded/toxic halides daily and are deficient in iodine. That means that in addition to low iodine intake we force out what little we do get with an abundance of the unneeded toxic halides.

Even if a person does get ample iodine (which Dr Brownstein for example found only 5% of his many thousand patients did) its forced out by other halides.

Let me try and put this into terms many here will understand.

think of clomid/nolva, they are a couple oestrogens that bind to the estrogen receptor but dont activate it. However since they bind to the same receptor as estrogen they prevent estrogen from binding and doing its thing.

bromide/fluoride and the other halogens basically act like clomid in the example above the compete at the receptor level with iodine so iodine cant do its job. So not only do we need iodine in ample quantities to meet our bodies needs we actually need more because it has to directly compete with the other halides we are bombarded with.

Most of us in the US have been drinking fluoridated water our whole life, this displaces iodine. No wonder there is a hypo epidemic in this country.

So, farmers markets and bottled water? Trying to soak all this in. What is proper supplementation?

 

[Zyglamail]

So, farmers markets and bottled water? Trying to soak all this in. What is proper supplementation?

it varies a bit from person to person of course but generally speak most needed sups I have listed in the thread link below with more discussion.


http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/l...masters-bodybuilding/young-low-t-1279183.html