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Don't touch gear until your BF% is down to X
please fill in the X with your humble opinion.
please fill in the X with your humble opinion.
Don't touch gear until your BF% is down to X
- Thread starter heavy_duty
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heavy_duty
New member
I can remember the last time I was below 15% but this time I'm gonna do it! I'm giving myself lots of time.
morph60
New member
TestApe70 said:Being more a powerlifter then a bodybuilder,I say its up to the person alone.
P.S I am writing this on my laptop as i go to Burger King...2 whopper w/cheese lg fries..400mg Cyp and 50mg adrol...
Being more a power lifter I say thank you .Im off to eat more cookies
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
morph60 said:
I don't remember you asking me if you should eat more cookies?
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DieselGunz
New member
15%
djsf
New member
I would suggest not touching gear until:
1) You're in your 30's or later. Use your 20's to build a solid base first.
2) You've been working out consistently for 5-10 years or more and have made steady progress putting muscle on your frame, and people generally consider you to be fairly muscular.
3) You've done enough research to understand all the risks of moving to the dark side and can make this choice for yourself wisely and intelligently.
4) Having a reasonably low bodyfat level is important so you can see the results on your body, but I'd put that at #4 on this list.
1) You're in your 30's or later. Use your 20's to build a solid base first.
2) You've been working out consistently for 5-10 years or more and have made steady progress putting muscle on your frame, and people generally consider you to be fairly muscular.
3) You've done enough research to understand all the risks of moving to the dark side and can make this choice for yourself wisely and intelligently.
4) Having a reasonably low bodyfat level is important so you can see the results on your body, but I'd put that at #4 on this list.
DieselGunz said:
I would say this number sounds pretty fair and attainable for most...
If you are a power sports person then maybe not, but how many here ARE really active power sports guys?
I would like to see guys actually get to 12% BEFORE using AS but I know that will NEVER happen
casbarocker
New member
In my own opinion, looking at myself and others who have used. I wouldnt recomend the use until you are at least 10% or lower b/f. Most people who use want to have the full ripped look, and you are not going to show that until you are around 10% or lower. I myself am at 7 - 8%, the lower you are at b/f the less bloat, at least that is what I have seen, it also probably goes hand in hand with proper diet and water intake.
The people with higher b/f at the gyms I have worked out at of course get bigger, but they always look bloated (balloon affect), thus they wind up doing more cardio and killing off more muscle.
As one of my power lifter frineds who give me advice says to me, if you are trying to build, dont do cardio, hell dont even walk fast! Cut down first, then do your bulking, it has worked wonders for me, and the guys I work out with. It might be harder to do this way, but the results are amazing!!!
The people with higher b/f at the gyms I have worked out at of course get bigger, but they always look bloated (balloon affect), thus they wind up doing more cardio and killing off more muscle.
As one of my power lifter frineds who give me advice says to me, if you are trying to build, dont do cardio, hell dont even walk fast! Cut down first, then do your bulking, it has worked wonders for me, and the guys I work out with. It might be harder to do this way, but the results are amazing!!!
heavy_duty
New member
Saying you don’t WANT to be lean is just a cop-out. It is the same as saying "I don’t have the willpower or discipline to not eat like a pig"
A lot of BIG GUYS are actually FAT GUYS in denial. If you have the dedication to go to the gym so many times a week then you should have the dedication to stay below 17% body fat.
I still think a lot of guys have "megarexia" in that they are big but feel small and see themself as small when they look in the mirror.
So many of them who would look great at 15% would actually feel very skinny and this is why they still eat too much food. Megarexia is still an eating disorder for you lads who are on a lifetime bulking cycle.
Don't be afraid to lose the gut, you wont fade away or become Skinny Minny Miller
I still think a lot of guys have "megarexia" in that they are big but feel small and see themself as small when they look in the mirror.
So many of them who would look great at 15% would actually feel very skinny and this is why they still eat too much food. Megarexia is still an eating disorder for you lads who are on a lifetime bulking cycle.
Don't be afraid to lose the gut, you wont fade away or become Skinny Minny Miller
Steve The Bluesman
New member
I usually make a point to cut with a Keto diet (CKD or TKD) for 6 weeks before any long bulking cycle. I know it is inevitable I am going to add BF, no sense going in already holding too much blubber.
Your mileage may vary.
Bluesman
Your mileage may vary.
Bluesman
heavy_duty said:
IMO ....
I don't see the relationship. I was a stick when I first did dbol, but I bet I was 20% or more. The changes that occured with just a 6 mg taste lifted me up and encourged me to really get going.
I also believe that some of the body fat figures floating around here do not match the people.
Some do ... No Doubt. The pics are here!
But I'd bet that 20-30% is more normal and does not mean you look FAT.
In 2004 I had my body fat and bone density tested at U of Mich hospital. I looked dam good ... that is why they asked me to do it. And I came out at 19%! 15% or below would have been scary! 10%?? No comment.
My answer?
25%
ass_face
New member
The fatter you are the less effective the cycle will be. The enzyme that is responsible for estrogen conversion is aromatase, made primarily in fat. This means the fatter you are the more aromatase enzyme present the more conversion to estrogen. 13% or lower is a good starting point. Any higher than that is a waste in my opinion.
If you are a pure strength athlete, then I would say any bodyfat is acceptable.
If you are a pure strength athlete, then I would say any bodyfat is acceptable.
while yes....estro conversion will be worse there is really no other reason. I mean if your obese and never touched the gym before then obviously juice is not the answer. Having said that.....a shitload of powerlifters juice with bf% in the 20's. Depends on your goals.....I like to keep abs year round, but not everybody is doing this for the same reason. What about TRT? Everyone on that isn't sub 15%.
For me I dont care on how much body fat when taking a cycle as long as its lower than 20%, and as long as its a bulking one cause anyway when taking gear specially when bulking we are gonna get some fat specially for those who just everything on the table in the bulking phase, then they do a cutting cycle, so its gonna lead to the same thing, if you start at 17& bf then after the bulking cycle you will be around 19, then do a cutting cycle to reach about 15 or less depending on diet, gear used and cardio.
I'm lost.....gear can help someone that is obese, with reducing BF%. So why wait until they reduce. I would however suggest that they stay away from the Dbols and maybe Deca...and I also belive winny should be left alone until the bf% is lower. Test (esp Prop), T3 and a little clen may be ideal.
Just MHO
Just MHO
heavy_duty said:
Maybe thats your opinion...But I would love for u to say that to Lee Priest in the off season..No discipline..Wrong its all how a person wants to feel..Eating eggwhite,tuna,beef,chicken 24/7 gets played out..AAS have many uses not only for being a lean bodybuilder...I would love to see some of u lean guys out in the July sun during split sessions..I used AAS to help me with my strenght while playing college ball..Being lean and ripped goes hand in hand with low carb hi pro diets...Not good for strenght,,,
By the way i would love to see a Elite Football game 13% & lower VS 14% and higher..
Being lean is being on a low cal diet but does not have to be low carb. Being lean is not the same as being in professional BB contest day shape. lets not be extreme here guys. I'm talking about the average guy here not a pro BB or a NFL'er or even NCAA all those guys are not your average dude.
also where I live NFL & NCAA do not exist so please think outside of only USA. Not every country has high level football actually on a global level 99.9% countries do not have it at all. this is afterall the world wide web.
also where I live NFL & NCAA do not exist so please think outside of only USA. Not every country has high level football actually on a global level 99.9% countries do not have it at all. this is afterall the world wide web.
Bruce
New member
i think that 12% is ok, personally i think though if you are real hardcore 10% would be the highest, you should be able to attain that by training and diet, now i do understand that some guys can't get to 10% just like i can't get to 200 lbs natty, so if you have done everything right and are stuck hit it up
That is sig worthy.heavy_duty said:
For guys I would say 14-15 for girls 17-18. I find it fucking hilarious to see pics of people that have run several cycles and don't even look like they have step in a gym.
Beachboy6294
New member
bowtech said:
Wow no Pop or candy bar since 1992? Shit!!! My hardest thing to cutt out while dieting is coca-cola and Mountain dew! It's only been three weeks and I get the shakes for one when I see somebody drinking one!
Beachboy6294
New member
Myself I wouldn't touch it unless at 15% BF or below but that is because I know I can get to that point no matter what before taking AAS. When I was younger I would have said 12% BF but after being married to a full blooded Italian and then my family being Cajun I have been eating to many good meals over the last few years!
Tweakle
New member
It depends on whether you want to be a beast or get lean for the ladies. The 200lbers are gonna have a different take on this from the big guys...
from what I understand it if you wish to make radical changes then you need to put your abs into hibernation for a couple of years along with huge intakes of clean food and lots of gear.. that doesnt lend itself to a dainty brad pitt waist yearround
from what I understand it if you wish to make radical changes then you need to put your abs into hibernation for a couple of years along with huge intakes of clean food and lots of gear.. that doesnt lend itself to a dainty brad pitt waist yearround
crfpilot14
New member
i feel that if you are over 30 and under 20% you are good. if you are in your 20s and have that high bf% then you should trim down and lay off the junk food first. a friend of mine that is an Army ER doc came to me and expressed interest in getting some help with getting into shape so he could apply for Ranger School and 18D training. he was 6'3 and 230lbs. he had not worked out in 3yrs. basically, he was a fatass due to his residency days of long hours and poor eating habits....so i would say that he was at least 22-23%. i got him started on a better diet with no junk food and an 8wk deca/winny/proviron cycle. best thing that happened to him. he got serious about his health and fitness and is down to 202 at ~15-16%. he just started a test/eq cycle and looks like a different person.
heavy_duty
New member
does the Doc. look like he's on gear?
my personal worthless opinion is if you're on gear you should look like you have taken some good old banned substances.
my personal worthless opinion is if you're on gear you should look like you have taken some good old banned substances.
crfpilot14
New member
heavy_duty said:
he has definitely put on some muscle. his traps and arms are the most noticeable...as well as his chest. he lost most of the weight from his knees to his umbilicus. i guess you could say he looks like he is on gear, but not too noticeable. just a dramatic transformation.
heavy_duty
New member
cool
My opinion is 12% or under but then again the body type i have it's almost impossible for me to go over 12% because i have a very high metabolism!! I have to fight claw and beg to get to 200lbs @ 5'11", some say i'm gifted I say it sucks (grass is greener syndrome).
Still gotta say personally 12% or under is my reccomendation because it's to me a test of your determination for health.
Still gotta say personally 12% or under is my reccomendation because it's to me a test of your determination for health.
heavy_duty
New member
as you get older man you dont want any extra blubber at all
ghettostudmuffin
New member
Everyone's goals ARE different. To you people saying you should be this or that % bodyfat. Whatever.
Having a 6 pack is great, but so what. If that's what floats your boat then fine, but don't put down someone who doesn't have abs to speak of, but may outbench and squat you by a good clip. That's their goals and priorities.
Get off your lean high horses.
And everyone is different at different % fat levels. I recently cut down to 182lbs and 17% bodyfat as measured by calipers by multiple trainers and I looked GOOD. Everyone said I looked great I felt great about how I looked, and all the trainers at my gym were impressed. BUT, I was turning into a weak bitch and wasn't happy because my bodyfat didn't register 10 or 12% even though I felt I was looking like it based off pictures I have seen of this % fat level. I am pretty LEAN at 15%. I ate perfectly and exercised hard and still lost around 20 lbs of muscle and 30 pounds of fat. I will not diet down again without aas.
I build size and strength best and tend to naturally have a bodyfat level in the 20-25% range. I don't look fat at this level, but I do look thick and bulky.
That's me.
Some of you need to be a little more open-minded.
Having a 6 pack is great, but so what. If that's what floats your boat then fine, but don't put down someone who doesn't have abs to speak of, but may outbench and squat you by a good clip. That's their goals and priorities.
Get off your lean high horses.
And everyone is different at different % fat levels. I recently cut down to 182lbs and 17% bodyfat as measured by calipers by multiple trainers and I looked GOOD. Everyone said I looked great I felt great about how I looked, and all the trainers at my gym were impressed. BUT, I was turning into a weak bitch and wasn't happy because my bodyfat didn't register 10 or 12% even though I felt I was looking like it based off pictures I have seen of this % fat level. I am pretty LEAN at 15%. I ate perfectly and exercised hard and still lost around 20 lbs of muscle and 30 pounds of fat. I will not diet down again without aas.
I build size and strength best and tend to naturally have a bodyfat level in the 20-25% range. I don't look fat at this level, but I do look thick and bulky.
That's me.
Some of you need to be a little more open-minded.
GhettoStudMuffin said:
I think even the Medical community lists 25% bf as OBESE in the USA though
What does that tell you?
Personally when I see posts from guys who are doing "bulking cycles" and are already 20%+ bf I often wonder just how fat they are trying to get?
I think this inital thread titile would have been better suited to be titled
"Dont touch gear until you have been traiing CONSISTENTLY for how long?", and not based on bf% as much
heavy_duty
New member
Bro
post up your pictures and let us tell you if you are fat or if you look great. On the real bro, not trying to be a dick.....post up some pics man.
post up your pictures and let us tell you if you are fat or if you look great. On the real bro, not trying to be a dick.....post up some pics man.
GhettoStudMuffin said:
Tweakle
New member
the whole 'do you look like you juice' thing is fucking ridiculous, people here post about 140lb movie stars as 'juicing', there are 'good bros' who look worse than naturals I know who get props for lookin grat, and god forbid you use the general publics standards of whats a 'juicer' - frail tennis players and baseball players, lol
Look at a SHW powerlifter or a WSM contestant like Glen Ross. Do they look like Frank Zane? fuck no. Do they carry huge amounts of muscle under their fat? yeah. Would they look a hundred times better than mr UnderArmour with his abs if they did a contest cycle? look at the pics of the WSM guys who used to compete as bbers for that answer..
Look at a SHW powerlifter or a WSM contestant like Glen Ross. Do they look like Frank Zane? fuck no. Do they carry huge amounts of muscle under their fat? yeah. Would they look a hundred times better than mr UnderArmour with his abs if they did a contest cycle? look at the pics of the WSM guys who used to compete as bbers for that answer..
ghettostudmuffin
New member
I'm not particularly interested in posting pics for you to critique, nor do I want photos of myself on the internet for personal reasons. Plenty in the gym and on the street have confirmed what I looked like. I also don't claim to have a 6 pack or rockin the best body in the gym by any means.
All I am saying is that you can measure different people and one guy might register 10% and another 15% and have similar looking levels of bodyfat.
Plus, you might think someone with 6% bodyfat and 180lbs looks great and that is what you find ideal and I think 250 pounds and bulkier and stronger is ideal.
All I am saying is that you can measure different people and one guy might register 10% and another 15% and have similar looking levels of bodyfat.
Plus, you might think someone with 6% bodyfat and 180lbs looks great and that is what you find ideal and I think 250 pounds and bulkier and stronger is ideal.
Gumaro
New member
im going out on a limb saying that the majority of people want to use AAS to look good. it doesnt matter if they weight 140lbs or 250lbs. and once we achieve the desired goal, we are happy. sure if we see a big guy in the gym, we get envious. but outside the gym, what are the chances you'll bump into someone that is big? so it doesnt matter whether you look like you use AAS when youre not nude. do what you feel is ideal and go from there. learn from your experiences.
that said, IMO, if youre trying to bulk then you should be 10-12% so you dont get too much BF. if youre trying to trim down then it doesnt matter if youre as high as 20%. despite what people say, you will get some LBM. not as much as if you were in a bulking diet but you still will get some good LMB added to your frame.
that said, IMO, if youre trying to bulk then you should be 10-12% so you dont get too much BF. if youre trying to trim down then it doesnt matter if youre as high as 20%. despite what people say, you will get some LBM. not as much as if you were in a bulking diet but you still will get some good LMB added to your frame.
mustang_00
Well-known member
a couple years ago my buddy decided he wanted to change his life style and get healthy so we started working out together. he was a little over 30%bf. he started getting really motivated so i knew he was serious. It turns out one of his cousins was on gear and hooked him up with a first time cycle. it was just test cyp he went for 12 weeks on and didn't even run PCT well a month after his cycle was over he was down to 16% bf. I don't know what to think about that. haha i was happy for him but mad at the same time. This was the laziest fucking guy in the world. We gave him the nickname "nuts" haha cause that was the last thing to get off his bed when he got up in the morning. Can anyone explain how that's possible? He would take the weekends off on his diet and hit up buffets and endless pancakes (crap like that)
i'm gonna start calling him a coke whore
i'm gonna start calling him a coke whore
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