Doing WHEY only pre-post workout????

[The Shadow]

..you might want to consider altering that.

A new study just confirmed that a casein/whey shake POST workout contributed to more LBM gains than whey PLUS bcaas.


New recommendation:

10-15 grams EACH of whey AND casein one hour prework out and immediately post workout.

 

[petpre61]

pretty much worthless without the study

 

[The Shadow]

pretty much worthless without the study

2006 Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research conducted by Baylor University.

 

[petpre61]

2006 Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research conducted by Baylor University.

thank you. do you know the title as well?

 

[The Shadow]

thank you. do you know the title as well?

I do not.....the generalities were given in a muscle rag

 

[Cynical Simian]

Title: THE EFFECTS OF PROTEIN AND AMINO ACID
SUPPLEMENTATION ON PERFORMANCE AND TRAINING
ADAPTATIONS DURING TEN WEEKS OF RESISTANCE
TRAINING

I don't have time to skim it now, but I'll probably do so later today.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

new stuff all the time. blah.

That's why I like the big picture thinking for the most part regarding nutrition.

Get enough good stuff in, you'll grow.. eat less you'll loose

Simple is as simple does, I guess lol

 

[jpt]

so a protein powder with cassein and whey in it would be more beneficial?? something like cytosport muscle milk??

 

[Protobuilder]

this isn't news. I posted about this several months back talking about how milk was basically the perfect post-workout shake: casein + whey + carbs.

 

[petpre61]

Title: THE EFFECTS OF PROTEIN AND AMINO ACID
SUPPLEMENTATION ON PERFORMANCE AND TRAINING
ADAPTATIONS DURING TEN WEEKS OF RESISTANCE
TRAINING

I don't have time to skim it now, but I'll probably do so later today.

do u have the full article?

 

[enigma4dub]

this isn't news. I posted about this several months back talking about how milk was basically the perfect post-workout shake: casein, whey = carbs.

exactly my thoughts. i also agree with sarge, really splitting hairs at this point.

 

[Cynical Simian]

That's why I like the big picture thinking for the most part regarding nutrition.

Yeah, I'm not exactly rushing to throw out my whey. Given that I and most people eat another meal about an hour after their shake, I doubt it makes much of a difference.

 

[anotherbutters]

You drink whey? Damn, I've been snorting it all this time.

 

[Protobuilder]

Eat a lot, and often, and you've solved the riddle. The rest is wanking.

 

[anotherbutters]

You mean for hyooge arms?

 

[Cynical Simian]

Bodypart split training and use of leg press (and bench press, ostensibly done on Mondays in accordance with the International Treaty on Chest Days) as indicators of strength. Reminds me of the rant about the dearth of quality university exercise physiology programs in Practical Programming...

The effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on performance and training adaptations during ten weeks of resistance training.

* Kerksick CM,
* Rasmussen CJ,
* Lancaster SL,
* Magu B,
* Smith P,
* Melton C,
* Greenwood M,
* Almada AL,
* Earnest CP,
* Kreider RB.

Center for Exercise, Nutrition and Preventive Health Research, Department of Health, Human Performance and Recreation, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798, USA.

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of whey protein supplementation on body composition, muscular strength, muscular endurance, and anaerobic capacity during 10 weeks of resistance training. Thirty-six resistance-trained males (31.0 +/- 8.0 years, 179.1 +/- 8.0 cm, 84.0 +/- 12.9 kg, 17.8 +/- 6.6%) followed a 4 days-per-week split body part resistance training program for 10 weeks. Three groups of supplements were randomly assigned, prior to the beginning of the exercise program, in a double-blind manner to all subjects: 48 g per day (g.d(-1)) carbohydrate placebo (P), 40 g.d(-1) of whey protein + 8 g.d(-1) of casein (WC), or 40 g.d(-1) of whey protein + 3 g.d(-1) branched-chain amino acids + 5 g.d(-1) L-glutamine (WBG). At 0, 5, and 10 weeks, subjects were tested for fasting blood samples, body mass, body composition using dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), 1 repetition maximum (1RM) bench and leg press, 80% 1RM maximal repetitions to fatigue for bench press and leg press, and 30-second Wingate anaerobic capacity tests. No changes (p > 0.05) were noted in all groups for energy intake, training volume, blood parameters, and anaerobic capacity. WC experienced the greatest increases in DEXA lean mass (P = 0.0 +/- 0.9; WC = 1.9 +/- 0.6; WBG = -0.1 +/- 0.3 kg, p < 0.05) and DEXA fat-free mass (P = 0.1 +/- 1.0; WC = 1.8 +/- 0.6; WBG = -0.1 +/- 0.2 kg, p < 0.05). Significant increases in 1RM bench press and leg press were observed in all groups after 10 weeks. In this study, the combination of whey and casein protein promoted the greatest increases in fat-free mass after 10 weeks of heavy resistance training. Athletes, coaches, and nutritionists can use these findings to increase fat-free mass and to improve body composition during resistance training.

PMID: 16937979 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

EDIT: Added bold per sarge's request. It's the frickin' abstract, though...pretty much everything besides the authors' names is supposed to be important.

EDIT2:

 

[SgtSlaughter]

lol, nevermind.

it wasn't too difficult

 

[Protobuilder]

Eat. Drink milk. If it's an hour or so before lifting, you'll get aminos released during the workout. Drink milk after workout. You get casein, protein and simple carbs. Presto chango! Hyooge.

Science finally catches up to what guys have know for years now . . .

 

[mekannik]

Eat. Drink milk. If it's an hour or so before lifting, you'll get aminos released during the workout. Drink milk after workout. You get casein, protein and simple carbs. Presto chango! Hyooge.

Science finally catches up to what guys have know for years now . . .

good to see your post rudeness has not declined in my absence.

Bravo. Bravo.

 

[al420]

So milk is bad, right?

 

[Cynical Simian]

Yeah, this one really big dude at my gym says it'll make you fat.

 

[Protobuilder]

good to see your post rudeness has not declined in my absence.

Bravo. Bravo.

Where the fuck have you been? This place is full of pole smokers now. (me excepted)

 

[Guinness5.0]

Yeah, this one really big dude at my gym says it'll make you fat.

A guy I used to work with refused to drink milk at all because he said he read that it raises estrogen levels .

 

[SDHW]

I have been doing a lot of reading on milk, I used to drink about a gallon a day, but I was getting concern about all the sugar and fat in it. Its very calorie dense and is great for bulking, but I was putting on too much fat. so I dropped it. I have been reading a lot of good things about raw non-pasteurized milk, but im still unsure about it.

The thing that I would be concerned about with adding milk to my post workout drink would be the fat content. We are insulin sensitive due to weight training, which is why having protein and simple carbs gets shuttled into the muscle post workout. taking fat in at this time would cause it too be stored very quickly. I have always been told that you should stay clear of fat post workout.

also on a side note, wouldn’t combining whey and casein slow the absorption rate of whey dramatically, and thus defeat the effects of using whey postworkout?

 

[Protobuilder]

The thing that I would be concerned about with adding milk to my post workout drink would be the fat content.

The whole "fat makes you fat" argument was debunked long ago. Too much of anything makes you fat.

also on a side note, wouldn’t combining whey and casein slow the absorption rate of whey dramatically, and thus defeat the effects of using whey postworkout?

Didn't you read the study blurb above?

 

[SDHW]

The whole "fat makes you fat" argument was debunked long ago. Too much of anything makes you fat.



Didn't you read the study blurb above?

I agree with the fat makes you fat, not what im talking about. I am talking about taking in fat post workout. We all agree that we are insulin sensitive post workout. And if that is true and we know that insulin stores stuff (in simple terms) then if we take in a lot of fat at this time, it would be easy to see that excess fat will now be stored as fat.

I did read the article, but I question its accuracy. I dont think just b/c they did one study with 36 men, that we should now write it in stone! im more or less bringing up topics for discussion.

they should have also done a group with whey protein and simple carbs(dextrose)

they also should have just gave one group whey protein, and not added the BCAA's and L-glutamine to it.

 

[Cynical Simian]

I agree with the fat makes you fat, not what im talking about. I am talking about taking in fat post workout. We all agree that we are insulin sensitive post workout. And if that is true and we know that insulin stores stuff (in simple terms) then if we take in a lot of fat at this time, it would be easy to see that excess fat will now be stored as fat.

You don't even know what "insulin sensitive" means, do you? By your logic, people shouldn't eat carbs or protein post-workout either, since "it would be easy to see that excess [protein/carbs] will now be stored as fat."

Put another way: "Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you stop talking for a while."

 

[Protobuilder]

. . .

You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Cynical Simian again.

 

[SDHW]

You don't even know what "insulin sensitive" means, do you? By your logic, people shouldn't eat carbs or protein post-workout either, since "it would be easy to see that excess [protein/carbs] will now be stored as fat."

Put another way: "Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you stop talking for a while."

bro who the f**k are you. I was bringing up discussion, is that not what this forum is for?? Dont be a dick, whats the need for it... and I think you’re the one who doesn’t know what insulin sensitive means, go back and check on that. and tell me again that weight training doesn’t cause the muscle to become more insulin sensitive following a workout! oh and by my logic insulin increases protein syntheses and increases amino acid transport and increases glucose uptake, which is why we take a protein/carbohydrate drink post workout. Didnt read anywhere in there that said stored it as fat did you?

Put another way: "take it easy Champ, and check your facts"!

 

[Guinness5.0]

Put another way: "take it easy Champ, and check your facts"!

SDHW:
I'm not sure why my friends reacted the way they did above. I think you raise valid points.

I am also curious to know if there is much in the way of proof/evidence that the intake of fats would be detrimental to gains when ingested PWO. I've seen it recommended that fats be avoided PWO because it hinders glycogen conversion/amino acid uptake rather than because the dietary fat is likely to be stored as bodyfat. Any9one care to share any links/articles that shed some light on this?

 

[SDHW]

SDHW:
I'm not sure why my friends reacted the way they did above. I think you raise valid points.

I am also curious to know if there is much in the way of proof/evidence that the intake of fats would be detrimental to gains when ingested PWO. I've seen it recommended that fats be avoided PWO because it hinders glycogen conversion/amino acid uptake rather than because the dietary fat is likely to be stored as bodyfat. Any9one care to share any links/articles that shed some light on this?

Thanks for the comments, Im not sure why they reacted that way either, usually they are very helpful. I just didnt think the comments where needed.

Yes I was told a long time ago that fats should be avoided at all cost post workout and for the next 3 hours after, especially when trying to diet down. So I was like okay no fats post workout no problem and I ran with it. I would like to know some facts on the question you bring to the table as well. I would say when you combine carbs with protein and fats, it slows the absorption down considerably.