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Does Calorie Cycling Work for Natural Bodybuilders? (Long post)

Chrisr

New member
Hi everyone,

This is my first post, I just found this site and am excited to have access to this kind of resource on bodybuilding issues. I am 5' 10" tall, 180 lbs with about 9% BF and have been lifting weights consistantly for about 10 years now. When I started I was about 165 at 10% BF so I really haven't made a lot of progress and I am hoping to figureout what I am doing wrong.

My first question involves Bulk and Cut Cycles that are so popular in bodybuilding. I wonder if these really work for Natural Bodybuilders. I have tried this (and many other) approaches and was underwhelmed by the results. The first bulk cycle I did took about 3 months. I stepped my calories from 2700 up to 4500 calories by increasing my food intake by 300 calories every week until I hit 4500/day. I ate a clean low fat diet (no alcohol). My weight went up from 184 to eventually 196 lbs. My arms and chest were huge and definitely had good success on putting on the muscle mass. I did no aerobics during this period and worked out 3X per week in one hour intense sessions. My BF was measured at 14% at the end of the bulk cycle and was 11% at the beginning. I felt like I had put WAY too much fat. I then spent about 6 weeks cutting down. I gradually dropped my calories down to 2000. I also took body measurements during the whole cycle. By the end of the cut cycle I was back at 184 lbs. My BF was measured at 11% and my measurements were only slightly improved (waist was ½ inch smaller, chest and shoulders and calves were slightly bigger but less than 1/2" difference). I found this cycling to be fairly miserable and I noticed very little improvement but I did notice a little so I figured I would try again in 6 months.

The second time I did the cycle I went from 184 up to 200 lbs in the period of 3 months. This time I had to increase my calories up to 5000. It was a little easier this time than last time. I did some aerobic exercise this time (3x a week for 15 minute sessions). I felt noticeably leaner at 195 this time but by the time I hit 200 lbs I felt really fat again. I didn't get my BF measured this time but I figure it was around 14-15%. I cut down again over the next 6 weeks and ended up at 184 again. Took my body measurements and they were actually no different than when I started. I came to the conclusion that this was a whole lot of work for nothing. My cutting diet was 5 meals a day high protein low fat . I figure I must be doing something wrong in the cutting phase because I am losing all my muscle gains.

I also tried a diet Bill Phillips promoted that involved cycling your diet every two weeks between high calorie and low calorie. I did this for twelve weeks and saw the same results. I got big and increased my BF for two weeks and then I would get lean decrease my BF for two weeks and after 12 weeks, very little change in my overall body measurements. Is there some sort of trick to cutting off the fat and not losing the muscle? I take in plenty of protein at all times, around 240+ grams a day.

Any advice is appreciated.
 
Dear Chrisr,

Well, first, I want to reject the notion that 2 weeks bulk/2 weeks cut is a 'natural' possibility. How much muscle can you really gain (naturally) in 2 weeks? Not water nor muscle glycogen. Answer is: not enough for the fat gain (if any at all).

Now, I would like to recommend a Protein Cycling diet for you.
http://www.mesomorph.net/bros/docs.php?ID=49

At this link I have a write up Manual of the ratios to follow on Protein/Carb cycling diet.

Feel free to ask questions.
Mr.X :cool:
 
This sounds interesting, but how should I transition from the bulking phase to this phase. Should I step down my calories slowly while changing my macronutrient profile or should I just transition quickly to the cutting phase? Also by what mechanism does this diet produce results?
 
I don't think a fairly slow transition is needed.
Try 1 week of : 50/30/20 (protein/carbs/fat) than week 2 do 50/20/30 (protein/carbs/fat) than start protein/carb cycling.
Drop calories slow. No drastic changes.

Mr.X :cool:
 
The original bulk and then cut cycles were strarted by a swedish scientist and it was originally posted at the musclemedia.com site. Everyone, like you, was underwhelmed by the results. Tmag fixed the diet, and now apparently it does work. You can find it at
www.testosterone.net
Search for the Delta 1250 diet. Read up on why the other one didnt work.

Hope i helped
 
Maybe you could try a zig-zag diet to try and shed off the last of the body fat. Let's say your maintinence need for calories is 2200 a day. You could theoretically bulk one day and cut the next. So, slowly but surely, your lean muscle mass you go up, and your bodyfat would go down.

Based on 2200 k/day

Monday-2700
Tuesday-1700
Wednesday-2700
Thursday-1700
Friday-2700
Saturday-2000
Sunday-2000

You would want to structure your lifting so that you were getting higher calories on lifting days for energy and protein purposes. Hope this makes sense.
 
Iron Thrower, I have to disagree, to the low-calorie drop. For, he is eating 4500cal. currently and the sudden change would cause a metabolic slowdown. Yet, the zig-zag would work great if he lowers his calories slowly and than enjoys the zig-zag diet.

Mr.X :cool:
 
Actually Mr X I am currently (last 12 months) consuming about 2700-3000 calories a day and am in a maintenance phase. The last time I did a 3 month bulk cycle was over 3 years ago. Since I didn't end up gaining any LBM I decided not to continue with this approach. My thought was that this approach only works for bodybuilders who are using steriods or some sort of powerful anti-catabolic substance. Now I am thinking that maybe I just screwed up on the cutting phase, maybe too much aerobics, maybe not enough sleep, maybe diet? I guess I was just trying to determine if most natural bodybuilders still use this bulk up for 3 months then cut up for 3 months approach.

I have been thinking about trying the CKD approach next time I try to cut up. I tried the Atkins diet once and it seemed to work great for about 4 weeks then I lost so much energy i had to quit lifting, but i felt very lean but near the end my muscles felt flat. What do you think about me trying the CKD approach? Also during my Bulking phase I used 2 to 3 of Optimum Nutritions Power Mass 1000 weight gainer shakes a day for 700 calorie meal replacements. This brand has relatively low sugar compared to all other brands I have seen and high protien and utilizes MCT (medium chain triglycerieds sp?) for calories. It also tastes very good! Do you recommend against using these?

More questions:

Do you think I should cut out aerobics totally during the bulking phase? How much aerobics should one do during the cutting phase? I imagine these might be dependant on the diet you are using as well.

Thanks everyone for the tips.
 
Mr. X - What would be the pros and cons of the zig-zag diet that I mentioned above. I have been on this type of diet for around two weeks. I am trying to lose a little bit of bodyfat that I have left. But I want to add lean mass because I know that the more lean mass I have, the more calories I will burn. Can you give me some insight. Thanks.
 
Chrisr, I do not see why people cut out aerobic exercise totally during bulking. Do simple 10 min warm-up pre-workout and 10min cool down post-workout on the bike. (total 20 min, but better than nothing)...Plus, I would recommend, for example, on sat (if that's your day off), do 45 min low-intensity aerobics, i.e. walking up treadmill at incline w/ low-speed. This will ensure a healthy body.

Iron Thrower, The 'zig-zag' diet, or commonly called calorie cycling, is, in fact, a great way to lose fat. For, you do not cause metabolic stillness by having the same amounts of calories all the time. By shifting the cal. you trick your body into having a stead humming metabolism.
The only reason I disagreed in the first place, was because I had the idea that Chrisr was doing a 4500cal. diet, and dropping as low as 2000cal. drasitacally will decrease the metabolic rate. Otherwise, calorie cycling is a great idea.

Mr.X :cool:
 
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