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does anyone here like creatine?

S

Sub-Zero

High End Bro
Platinum
I know this is a steroid board and all but i got some creatine questions.

how do yal dose your creatine, (how many g preworkout, how many g post workout)

also, how long do you usually use it, and how long do you deload off it?


also, are there any problems associated with it (other than it just not helping you make gains) if you stay on it too long?

thanks
 
goal245 said:
i take 10g of mono per day split into am/pm.
Click to expand...

10g is ALOT, do you think your muscles use all that?

you dont do the preworkout post workout route? i feel AM PM wouldnt make much sense for my goals because i want it to be at great concentrations in my muscles during training,

i was thinking a large dose an hour or so before beginning training, and then a slightly smaller dosage in my post workout shake to piggyback off my waxymaize and be flushed into the muscles

i was thinking like 3g preworkout, 2g post, but i might go 5/5?

anyone else got some input?
 
I use gnc's amplified 189 2 pills everyday in the am no bloating, loading or stomach discomfort my body can't stand monohydrate
 
I am one of the few people who does not like the monohydrate.
Fucks up my stomach
 
All the above :(
 
I have enough issues with a distended stomach and creatine just makes the bloat worse so I had to stop taking it in large amounts. Now I only have it in my preworked stack.
 
My preference is 5g pre and post workout.

10 grams isn't that much when you are 200+.

Regular old creatine monehydrate mixed with some juice and I notice it within 2 days in the gym.

Only thing I don't like about creatine is you pretty much always have to have water handy because you can dehydrate really fast from it.
 
which brand of creatine is best? Cellucor? and someone thinks, it's good to combine creatine with nitric oxide?
 
I'm curious when people say basic monohydrate didn't work for them if they understand what it actually does or whether they literally got no effect from it.

On creatine I am typically 5-8lbs heavier from the extra water in the muscles. I typically see this on the scale within 2 days of starting creatine. My weight will dramatically shoot up.

Extra water in the muscles by itself is anabolic.

Within the first workout or 2 I really notice it mainly on very heavy lifts and when nearing failure for reps on a lift. I "feel" like I can grind that last rep or 2 quite abit better whereas when off the creatine it's like bam, sets over. The strength just cuts off.

That's my experience with it.
 
This is the aas board bro. We have a supplements board. Moved.
 
Only Consume creatine post training. take immediatley after training with 40gms dextrose. drink 20 - 40oz water over next 30 minutes, then consume post workout shake.
Creatine is very insulin dependent and post training is the ldeal time to take.

5 gms creatine is sufficient. If you are using a formula that contains sugar, make sure and shake and roll the container because creatine is heavier than dextose
and it settles on the bottom.

There is no need to "cycle" creatine. Cycling creatine offers no advantages over continuous use.

There's several university studies and published double blind studies that support creatines efficacy in building lean mass. It's effect on ATP is undeniable and when
used properly and consistently, it is in my opinion, the best legal supp out there.
 
ghettostudmuffin said:
I'm curious when people say basic monohydrate didn't work for them if they understand what it actually does or whether they literally got no effect from it.

On creatine I am typically 5-8lbs heavier from the extra water in the muscles. I typically see this on the scale within 2 days of starting creatine. My weight will dramatically shoot up.

Extra water in the muscles by itself is anabolic.

Within the first workout or 2 I really notice it mainly on very heavy lifts and when nearing failure for reps on a lift. I "feel" like I can grind that last rep or 2 quite abit better whereas when off the creatine it's like bam, sets over. The strength just cuts off.

That's my experience with it.
Click to expand...

All I can say none of that happend to me no weight or strength increase.
Done it for 6weeks with a week of loading phase with 20g a day, then 5g aday
 
layinback said:
Only Consume creatine post training. take immediatley after training with 40gms dextrose. drink 20 - 40oz water over next 30 minutes, then consume post workout shake.
Creatine is very insulin dependent and post training is the ldeal time to take.

5 gms creatine is sufficient. If you are using a formula that contains sugar, make sure and shake and roll the container because creatine is heavier than dextose
and it settles on the bottom.

There is no need to "cycle" creatine. Cycling creatine offers no advantages over continuous use.

There's several university studies and published double blind studies that support creatines efficacy in building lean mass. It's effect on ATP is undeniable and when
used properly and consistently, it is in my opinion, the best legal supp out there.
Click to expand...

there are pretty much two reasons why people take creatine: recovery and energy/strength...taking it only post training illiminates the second reason, which is not a very good way to take creatine.

5 before and 5 after for a total of 10 a day is best practice.
 
My experience with creatine monohydrate is that it's quite effective. The muscles quickly retain a lot of water (and I must, therefore, increase my daily water intake accordingly) and I gain water weight, but I do feel it helps me in my workouts when I'm on it. Mono is the only variation of creatine I tried that seemed to truly work. I tried a couple brands of CEE a few years ago but it didn't seems to do much if anything for me.

I do definitely get a bloat from the mono and there is a four or five day loading phase with the brand I use (Optimum Nutrition, which I like), as is the case with pretty much all brands of mono. I've noticed that my skin sometimes breaks out with some bumps when I'm on, but that could be something else. Despite all that, it can be beneficial.

You don't have to cycle creatine, though I find that, whenever I want to cut fat, it's best to cut the creatine since I can then lose the waterweight (and the bloat). It's best to stack on a bulk cycle.
 
the_alcatraz said:
there are pretty much two reasons why people take creatine: recovery and energy/strength...taking it only post training illiminates the second reason, which is not a very good way to take creatine.

5 before and 5 after for a total of 10 a day is best practice.
Click to expand...

Timing Of Creatine Is Important


Creatine research continues, and yet another study shows it augments gains in muscle when used during a resistance training regimen. However, this study suggests that taking creatine after your workout may have benefits over taking it some other time. Subjects in this study performed single-limb training (arm and leg) with one side of the body twice per week, immediately after which creatine was ingested (0.2 g/kg body weight). On two other days of the week, exercise was performed with the opposite limbs and a placebo was ingested. Muscle thickness of the arms was assessed using ultrasound before and after 6 weeks of training and supplementation. After 6 weeks, the muscle thickness of the arm trained on days creatine was taken increased by 9.2%, whereas muscle thickness of the arm trained on days placebo was taken increased by 6.2%. Lean tissue of the arm assessed from dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry trained with creatine was greater compared to the arm trained with placebo. The most likely explanation for this effect is the increased blood flow to muscles which enhances creatine uptake into the active tissues. This is one of few studies that suggests timing of creatine after a workout is important to maximize training adaptations.

Chilibeck PD, Stride D, Farthing JP, Burke DG. Effects of creatine ingestion after exercise on muscle thickness in males and females. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 36(10):1781-1788.

Creatine has no immediate effect on energy or strength.Furthermore, Taking creatine pre
workout would be counter productive in that it scavenges fluid from
the intestinal tract and could contribute to dehydration or stomach upset.
Research shows that 2.5 - 5.0 gms a day is sufficient after the muscles
have been "loaded." I can't find evidence in the literature to indicate that
10 grams a day has any advantage over 5.


However, i'd be open to any medical study indicating an advantage to
creatine consumption pre exercise. I always steer clear of anecdotal
reporting.
 
the_alcatraz said:
Seriosuly? You're arguing whether or not creatine gives energy and strength gains?
Click to expand...

No. The better question is how did you percieve my post as an arguement
against creatines ability to energize and build strength?

I clearly stated that creatine does not have an immediate effect on energy
and strength. In other words, if you take 5 grams of creatine an hour or
even several hours pre training, you will not feel the effects during
training. It doesn't work that way. Consuming creatine after your
muscles have been loaded serves the purpose of maintaining levels.

Creatine has a direct effect on ATP synthesis. ATP is the source of
energy production and without it, you couldn't develop enough torque
to move your eyes.

My arguement was in response to your saying that post creatine
supplementation was inefficient and you asserted that pre and post
supplementation was more effective. You also said that you couldn't
benefit from its strength / energy characteristics unless you consume
pre exercise. I posted a medical reference to the conrary and i can post
more if you'd like. You have made no compelling arguement thus far.
 
layinback said:
No. The better question is how did you percieve my post as an arguement
against creatines ability to energize and build strength?

I clearly stated that creatine does not have an immediate effect on energy
and strength. In other words, if you take 5 grams of creatine an hour or
even several hours pre training, you will not feel the effects during
training. It doesn't work that way. Consuming creatine after your
muscles have been loaded serves the purpose of maintaining levels.

Creatine has a direct effect on ATP synthesis. ATP is the source of
energy production and without it, you couldn't develop enough torque
to move your eyes.

My arguement was in response to your saying that post creatine
supplementation was inefficient and you asserted that pre and post
supplementation was more effective. You also said that you couldn't
benefit from its strength / energy characteristics unless you consume
pre exercise. I posted a medical reference to the conrary and i can post
more if you'd like. You have made no compelling arguement thus far.
Click to expand...

I know what you said. I read it twice to make sure I'm not arguing for nothing. Creatine, I feel works in synergy with arginine which I also take pre and post workout. Yes, you will get benefit from creatine if you take it post workout, but when you take it pre workout it gives you energy.

Bodybuilders do it. Wrestlers do it. Fighters do it. I took it during wrestling season. I've taken it all my life. I don't need to read some dork's research lab essay to know how a supplement works in my body. I can just try it.
 
layinback said:
No. The better question is how did you percieve my post as an arguement
against creatines ability to energize and build strength?

I clearly stated that creatine does not have an immediate effect on energy
and strength. In other words, if you take 5 grams of creatine an hour or
even several hours pre training, you will not feel the effects during
training. It doesn't work that way. Consuming creatine after your
muscles have been loaded serves the purpose of maintaining levels.

Creatine has a direct effect on ATP synthesis. ATP is the source of
energy production and without it, you couldn't develop enough torque
to move your eyes.

My arguement was in response to your saying that post creatine
supplementation was inefficient and you asserted that pre and post
supplementation was more effective. You also said that you couldn't
benefit from its strength / energy characteristics unless you consume
pre exercise. I posted a medical reference to the conrary and i can post
more if you'd like. You have made no compelling arguement thus far.
Click to expand...

id think that if you had creatine in the blood along with some glucose that having it available to your body during a workout would serve to actively replinish the stores in your muscles, but havnt looked up any info on how creatine is used on the molecular level in the body so im just theorizing lol

id assume its the same as sipping some simple carbs during a workout, and loading the muscles with alot in your Post workout shake
 
the_alcatraz said:
I know what you said. I read it twice to make sure I'm not arguing for nothing. Creatine, I feel works in synergy with arginine which I also take pre and post workout. Yes, you will get benefit from creatine if you take it post workout, but when you take it pre workout it gives you energy.

Bodybuilders do it. Wrestlers do it. Fighters do it. I took it during wrestling season. I've taken it all my life. I don't need to read some dork's research lab essay to know how a supplement works in my body. I can just try it.
Click to expand...



So you're ok if your Doctor says, " I'm going to operate on you, but I'm not
going to follow the dictates of medical research. Those dorks that write
the medical books don't know your body like I do. I'm gonna use a procedure
that worked on a couple guys that i play poker with."

To each his own. I'll stick to medical research.
 
layinback said:
[/SIZE]

So you're ok if your Doctor says, " I'm going to operate on you, but I'm not
going to follow the dictates of medical research. Those dorks that write
the medical books don't know your body like I do. I'm gonna use a procedure
that worked on a couple guys that i play poker with."

To each his own. I'll stick to medical research.
Click to expand...

operating on someone is not a good analogy for taking creatine.
 
the_alcatraz said:
operating on someone is not a good analogy for taking creatine.
Click to expand...

lol it was in reference to you dismissing medical evidence.

You are a nice guy and i've always liked you, but you have
an impossible time with being wrong. Since you are a
mentor, you have a responsibilty to look for the truth
about aspects of diet, supps, training and aas. If it
contradicts what you currently believe, as a leader you
have to put your ego to the side and concede. "I don't
believe what some dork in a book says" is actually you
saying, " I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I SAY SO AND I'LL HAVE IT
NO OTHER WAY." i've been in management for as long
as you've been alive. I run a company with 270 people
and have subcontractors in 22 states. I train people
for leadership / management and i address these type
issues early on. C' mon traz..........
 
layinback said:
lol it was in reference to you dismissing medical evidence.

You are a nice guy and i've always liked you, but you have
an impossible time with being wrong. Since you are a
mentor, you have a responsibilty to look for the truth
about aspects of diet, supps, training and aas. If it
contradicts what you currently believe, as a leader you
have to put your ego to the side and concede. "I don't
believe what some dork in a book says" is actually you
saying, " I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I SAY SO AND I'LL HAVE IT
NO OTHER WAY." i've been in management for as long
as you've been alive. I run a company with 270 people
and have subcontractors in 22 states. I train people
for leadership / management and i address these type
issues early on. C' mon traz..........
Click to expand...

well therein lies the problem...i'm not a mentor, i'm a mod :p lol...i know you meant that figuratively

I sincerely believe creatine right before a workout helps in energy gains and strength increase...and it will help give you a great pump when added to arginine...

I'm sure I could find a lot mroe research supporting that as well...and I will, once I wake up tmrw morning :)
 
the_alcatraz said:
well therein lies the problem...i'm not a mentor, i'm a mod :p lol...i know you meant that figuratively

I sincerely believe creatine right before a workout helps in energy gains and strength increase...and it will help give you a great pump when added to arginine...

I'm sure I could find a lot mroe research supporting that as well...and I will, once I wake up tmrw morning :)
Click to expand...

fair enough my friend! I'm open for evidence that supports your belief.
through the years i've had to shed a lot of closely held beliefs about
bodybuilding. i've discarded some, amended others and i'm always
listening for something new and beneficial.
 
Staying with the topic, I would just like to say that when I first started creatine, which ws when Bill Phillips of EAS(former owner) and MRI owner, came out with the creatine mono powder I was a big user. I prob put on 20 pounds of the stuff just by taking a teaspoon of it putting it in my mouth and drinking out down with water or juice. I got strong and it got me bulky, lots of water retention but I liked the added strength that went with it. Then, the older I got and into my 30's, for some reason I could not handle the mono anymore. All of a sudden I started getting stomach discomfort and dia-craps. I have tried so many creatines, all the popular brands, and still no good. This past year I triend Ancient Strength and I prevailed with no cr*ps. I can't figure that out because there is some mono in it. I just wish there was a way that I could take five or ten grams of mono a day like I used to years ago and not get the sh*ts. Oh well, sometimes i would divide it am and pm and then sometimes pre and post workout. I never really noticed a difference either way..take care..
 
layinback said:
fair enough my friend! I'm open for evidence that supports your belief.
through the years i've had to shed a lot of closely held beliefs about
bodybuilding. i've discarded some, amended others and i'm always
listening for something new and beneficial.
Click to expand...

To my surprise, I was mistaken. You are right bro...it seems most researches show that taking creatine pre-workout doesnt have the biggest effect on your body. Post workout is the way to go.

".... What is the Best Time to Take Creatine?

There has been much discussion on this but I believe taking creatine post workout is the most beneficial time for several reasons.

1. Insulin helps drive more creatine into muscle cells, if you are a smart bodybuilder then in your post workout meal you should be eating foods that help spike your insulin, if this is the case, then taking creatine with this meal will help it's uptake into muscle cells.
2. The body absorbs many nutrients better after a workout.
3. Creatine will help refuel your body's low creatine phosphate stores.

Will Taking Creatine Before a Workout Give Me More Energy?

No, not exactly. Once again for creatine to work your muscle cells must be saturated with it. This takes at least a week to do, so doing it once before a workout will not make a difference. Now if your cells are already saturated with creatine then it will still not make a difference if you take it before you workout. Your body must process it first and that takes time. The creatine your body will use in the upcoming workout will come from the creatine phosphate stores already in the cells, not from the creatine you just ingested...."

Bodybuilding.com - Creatine: Fact And Fiction! - Layne Norton
 
the_alcatraz said:
To my surprise, I was mistaken. You are right bro...it seems most researches show that taking creatine pre-workout doesnt have the biggest effect on your body. Post workout is the way to go.

".... What is the Best Time to Take Creatine?

There has been much discussion on this but I believe taking creatine post workout is the most beneficial time for several reasons.

1. Insulin helps drive more creatine into muscle cells, if you are a smart bodybuilder then in your post workout meal you should be eating foods that help spike your insulin, if this is the case, then taking creatine with this meal will help it's uptake into muscle cells.
2. The body absorbs many nutrients better after a workout.
3. Creatine will help refuel your body's low creatine phosphate stores.

Will Taking Creatine Before a Workout Give Me More Energy?

No, not exactly. Once again for creatine to work your muscle cells must be saturated with it. This takes at least a week to do, so doing it once before a workout will not make a difference. Now if your cells are already saturated with creatine then it will still not make a difference if you take it before you workout. Your body must process it first and that takes time. The creatine your body will use in the upcoming workout will come from the creatine phosphate stores already in the cells, not from the creatine you just ingested...."

Bodybuilding.com - Creatine: Fact And Fiction! - Layne Norton
Click to expand...

you are a gentleman and a scholar.

I've recently learned that 20 gms whey protein with 40 gms dextrose
pre workout is superior to post workout shake. you actually need to
do both, but you split it. research shows amino acid pools are much
higher in muscle when you consume pre workout. for years i preached
post workout shake. now i mix 3/4 scoop isopure in a 20oz gatorade
and drink 10 minutes pre training.

btw, you'll see noticable mass gain after a month of doin this + it
gives you slightly more endurance / intensity.
 
layinback said:
you are a gentleman and a scholar.

I've recently learned that 20 gms whey protein with 40 gms dextrose
pre workout is superior to post workout shake. you actually need to
do both, but you split it. research shows amino acid pools are much
higher in muscle when you consume pre workout. for years i preached
post workout shake. now i mix 3/4 scoop isopure in a 20oz gatorade
and drink 10 minutes pre training.

btw, you'll see noticable mass gain after a month of doin this + it
gives you slightly more endurance / intensity.
Click to expand...


I've always took shakes pre and post...and it does make a difference.

I've heard people do "during" shakes...what are your thoughts on that?
 
the_alcatraz said:
I've always took shakes pre and post...and it does make a difference.

I've heard people do "during" shakes...what are your thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

My HRT Doctor swears by it. I've done it but prefer to drink water during
training. I'm sure it works and it's just a matter of preference.
one way or the other, you def need amino's in the blood while training
if nothing else, to stave off catabolism.

most people think all of this type stuff is too attention detailed or OCD.
i believe it's the attention to detail and all the little stuff that adds up
to a superior result.

I preach this in my company and the gym: superior work ethic and superior
plan equals a superior result.
 
I have taken 5g creatine a day, usually post WO. But after a few weeks it starts to give me leg cramps during longer runs. I drink plenty of water so I don't think thats the reason. I liked it and felt strong on it but the cramps made me not want to use it anymore.
 
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