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Does anyone follows this PCT protocol?

R

rage_roid

New member
I asked William Llewelyn at his site about the correct PCT protocol to follow, since I pretty much still stick with the old 5000ui 2500 ui e3w, 20 mg. tamoxifen x 4w, and it really really works fine for me.

My last cycle was.

1-10 400 mg. cyp
8-12 50 mg. winny
1-6 40 mg. oxandrolone

Now, I've seen at most boards that that protocol is not use anymore, HCG is has been pull out of every single PCT protocol and administrated during cycle or at the end of it...

http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

What d you guys think about it...
 
rage_roid said:
I asked William Llewelyn at his site about the correct PCT protocol to follow, since I pretty much still stick with the old 5000ui 2500 ui e3w, 20 mg. tamoxifen x 4w, and it really really works fine for me.

My last cycle was.

1-10 400 mg. cyp
8-12 50 mg. winny
1-6 40 mg. oxandrolone

Now, I've seen at most boards that that protocol is not use anymore, HCG is has been pull out of every single PCT protocol and administrated during cycle or at the end of it...

http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

What d you guys think about it...
Click to expand...

For me, hcg during cycle makes recovery much easier. Along with PP's test recovery stack, Nelson's Unleashed I am good to go. I got bloodwork done to be sure and all levels were right where they needed to be. Plus, no clomid which kills my libido.
 
Chocolate_Thunder said:
For me, hcg during cycle makes recovery much easier. Along with PP's test recovery stack, Nelson's Unleashed I am good to go. I got bloodwork done to be sure and all levels were right where they needed to be. Plus, no clomid which kills my libido.
Click to expand...

I know bro the hcg during cycle works, and better along with the PP TRS... downhere in southamerica, we can only get 5000 ui presentation, so it's kind of hard to use it during cycle... Now, what do you think about that protocol? honestly...

By the way, why is clomid killing your libido?
 
rage_roid said:
I know bro the hcg during cycle works, and better along with the PP TRS... downhere in southamerica, we can only get 5000 ui presentation, so it's kind of hard to use it during cycle... Now, what do you think about that protocol? honestly...

By the way, why is clomid killing your libido?
Click to expand...

It looks more like a study not a PCT plan. If you get 5000iu amps do this: read post #6

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...c-gonadotropin-dosage-605068.html#post8355040


I don't know why clomid kills my libido, it just does.
 
Clomid can be a libido killer in many people. It's a fucking ESTROGEN!

I spoke about this years ago and it's the reason I developed my supplements. Everyone thought I was crazy but that's because the boards were govered by those who had a set agenda and disagreeing with them meant experienced their wrath and the wrath of their minions. Now, more and more guys admit that clomid and nolva kills their dicks. Plenty of other nasty sides too.

I always preferred Proviron for it's anti e effects and that's what UNLEASHED is based on. Add more free t by lowering SHBG which in turn prevents aromatization. Better libido, strength, potential muscle, erectile rigidity and it's 100% safe. Much better.
 
Sorry but clomid is essential. So is hcg in my opinion. I have talked to endos before and my doc knows what i do. I will stick with what they give to men with low test levels which is clomid nolva and hcg shots. I run 10 days of hcg at 500ius ed till the testes are back to size and a day after i run 50mg of clomid ed for 3 weeks. I always have great bloodwork after.
 
Bruce said:
Sorry but clomid is essential.
.......................................
THEN WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE RECOVER BETTER WITHOUT IT?


...............................................

So is hcg in my opinion. I have talked to endos before and my doc knows what i do. I will stick with what they give to men with low test levels which is clomid nolva and hcg shots.

..........................................


NOLVA IS NOT PRESCRIBED FOR LOW TEST. CLOMID IS, BUT MOST DOCTORS WILL ADMIT IT'S A CRAPSHOOT AND MOST DOCTORS DON'T UNDERSTAND PCT.


................................................

I run 10 days of hcg at 500ius ed till the testes are back to size and a day after i run 50mg of clomid ed for 3 weeks. I always have great bloodwork after.
.....................

HOW LONG AFTERWARD? MAYBE YOU'RE ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES. LOTS OF PEOPLE RESPOND POORLY TO CLOMID , IN WHICH CASE IT CAN BE A DISASTER. CLOMID DOESN'T CURE ANYTHING. THERE ISN'T A SINGLE CASE OF IT. IF CLOMID RAISED T PERMANENTLY, NO ONE WOULD NEED HRT.
Click to expand...

..
 
Nelson, I have the most respect for you my... but looong time ago, there was a post, where some guy asked you about his low test results, and he was on unleash, You told him that he had to put the test back up, and then unleash was going to have something to work with... You told him to get some hcg, and I dont wanna lie, but I think some nolva also, and then keep using the unleash....

Now, my personal experience, HCG and nolva worked great for me. Never tried unleash... but sure I'm plannig to do it. In worst case, it wont hurt me.

Now, how come you get clomid dick if your LH is so up (wich in theory should means you are producing test as hell)? unless your estrogen is to the roof... wich with 50 mg. of clomid I seen it pretty hard to happen, really really will like to get a good explanation from you nelson, as I consider you one of the gurus in this world, but so I consider William... Please explain it better..
 
rage_roid said:
I know bro the hcg during cycle works, and better along with the PP TRS... downhere in southamerica, we can only get 5000 ui presentation, so it's kind of hard to use it during cycle... Now, what do you think about that protocol? honestly...

By the way, why is clomid killing your libido?
Click to expand...

split it with your buddy
 
rage_roid said:
Nelson, I have the most respect for you my... but looong time ago, there was a post, where some guy asked you about his low test results,You told him to get some hcg, and I dont wanna lie, but I think some nolva also, and then keep using the unleash....


..........................................
I ALWAYS RECOMMEND HCG BUT NEVER NOLVA UNLES THE GUY HAD EXISTING GYNO.


.........................................................................................



Now, my personal experience, HCG and nolva worked great for me. Never tried unleash... but sure I'm plannig to do it. In worst case, it wont hurt me.

........................................

MOST EVERYBODY REPORTS POSITIVE RESULTS FROM IT.



..............................................

Now, how come you get clomid dick if your LH is so up (wich in theory should means you are producing test as hell)? unless your estrogen is to the roof... wich with 50 mg. of clomid I seen it pretty hard to happen

.....................................................

YOUR LH GOES UP FROM HCG, NOT CLOMID SO MUCH. RAISING HCG WILL CAUSE AN INCREASE IN ESTRO, BUT CLOMID IS AN ESTROGEN. YOU MAY THINK 50 MGS ISN'T A LOT BUT TO MANY MEN IT'S ENOUGH TO KILL LIBIDO, THAT'S A FACT.


...............................................


, really really will like to get a good explanation from you nelson,

..............................

I JUST DID. : )



........................................................
as I consider you one of the gurus in this world, but so I consider William... Please explain it better..
.....................................

BILL IS A SMART GUY AND BETTER VERSED IN THE CHEMISTRY OF STEROIDS THAN ME BUT I BELIEVE SOME OF HIS IDEAS ARE OUT OF DATE. I PREDICTED 5 YEARS AGO THAT NO ONE WILL BE USING CLOMID IN 10 YEARS. WELL, ITS USE IS DOWN ABOUT HALF SO MAYBE MY PREDICTION WILL COME TRUE. THE EVIDENCE SEEMS TO SUGGEST IT. ANYONE WHO STILL RECOMMENDS NOLVA IS THINKING IN 1990 TERMS. IT'S A TERRIBLE DRUG AND THER HAVE BEEN ADVANCEMENTS, BOTH PHARMACEUTICAL AND NATURAL WHICH ARE FAR SUPERIOR AND SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND ADVOCATED.
Click to expand...

..
 
Still dont get it bro, yes clomid and Nolva are basicallly estrogens, their use is as a antiestrogen, that's what they are there for, by saying that hcg will rise your estrogen, and clomid and nolva are estrogens, basically you are saying that they both do not work as antistrogens in PCT.

By the way, thhe rise in the LH and test results from the study were taken after the pct was over. the increse on the LH produce from the HCG should drop pretty quickly, the second shot of 2500 ui was in the day 16. So 6.2 could not only be achived only by hcg, no doubt it helped but also, the serms played their roled to keep the body producing it.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks again.
 
rage_roid said:
Still dont get it bro, yes clomid and Nolva are basicallly estrogens, their use is as a antiestrogen, that's what they are there for,


........................................
Because they're estrogens they compete for site preventing other estros to "dock." Maybe. Sometimes it just adds more estro. This is why Clomid is a crapshoot. Works for some, not for others. It depends on the estro level and your ability to process it .


.......................................................................



by saying that hcg will rise your estrogen, and clomid and nolva are estrogens, basically you are saying that they both do not work as antistrogens in PCT.

......................................................................

As explained, they may or may not. Not that there are anti aromatases, why fuck with this shit?



..................................................


By the way, thhe rise in the LH and test results from the study were taken after the pct was over. the increse on the LH produce from the HCG should drop pretty quickly, the second shot of 2500 ui was in the day 16. So 6.2 could not only be achived only by hcg, no doubt it helped but also, the serms played their roled to keep the body producing it.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.


...................................

Too many factors to say. The body bounces back. The HCG kept it up. The subjects age. If serms work so well, they'd be used as HRT instead of T. they dont.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

..
 
well, I think they are not in use for HRT for one simple reason, HRT is for ppl with lack of endogenous test production, that doenst mean they all have estrogen issues, eventhough some do... and if they dont, serms have nothing to do with the problem that's is being attack...
 
Sorry Nelson but you have always changed your points of view on this. Doctors do understand it greatly, not so much in the U.S as other countries. I have never agreed with anything you post though.
 
I am not going to get into a pissing argument with you because all you do is spew stuff you copy and paste. I will tell you this I know over 20 people who have listened to me and everyone of them gets a bit crabby on clomid but still gets their libido back and everyone i know that takes it blows huge loads on it. thats weird if its not making test. Every bber that I know uses clomid or nolva for pct. Clomid hcg and nolva have been tried and true for a long time and they reigned supreme here for a while. just because all the vets are gone from here that knew proper pct does not mean you should spew your thoughts that no one has backed with experience unlike my methods .
 
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