Does anyone else miss being patriotic???

[DJ_UFO]

American Patriotism means fighting for the ideals set by our forefathers, not championing a bloated and out of control federal government.

nice comment...this is an interestig thread. Beyond some of us are Repulicans and other Democrats, every opinion is important. Trying to describe here what is patriotism has been a little bit difficult. And I think that is a sign that this system and this nation has been closer to perfection more than any other country in the world. That's the reason why there are so many opinions here. Because we are trying to fix something that it is already almost perfect. In these days we have a lot of doubts and worries about the future. But until this day, this country has done a very good work trying to rise a powerful empire based on the effort of the people. Every farmer started working hard and kept growing and growing. In the modern age, every man studied and started working hard. Some people making business, other being the keys for those business as technicians and engineers. The main task of the governement always has been keep that freedom to grow for the people. Giving them the chance to study, medicine, and other benefits. Asking them a cooperation (taxes) to have a big found to build better cities, to give all of us education, to build strong armed forces and technology. That created a powerful and dangerous machine. Always perfectioning by itself. Always been protected. That machine needs expansion. That is what we are seeing today. To keep this machine running and strong we need a global stability. If the world goes down, we go down with them. And if we go down, the world goes down with us.

So at the end, what it is patriotism?. The most important thing. Like Frackal well said, "means fighting for the ideals set by our forefathers". That simple value has been the history of this nation. And will be the future.

 

[Ashamed]

Dr Kelly was the guy that let the BBC know of his concerns regarding the now infamous (in the UK anyway) Iraq dossier. The Iraq dossier was the document that made our case for war with the claim that Iraq could launch a nucleaur or biological attack on the West in 45 minutes. This claim was later found to be based on dodgy reasoning and a ten year old PhD thesis...

Dr Kelly made the claim that the dossier had been deliberately exaggerated i.e. 'sexed up' by the UK government. He wished to remain anonymous, and the BBC abided by this wish... enter the big bad government and the MOD... the government applied pressure, accused the BBC of bias and lies and demanded the name of the man with the mouth. Enter the fuckwit employers of Kelly - the MOD. They named Kelly... media spotlight fell on Kelly.. Kelly went for a walk, and APPARENTLY took his own life using painkillers and a razor blade (he slashed his wrists after taking the painkillers).

Some believe that Kelly was murdered.. I believed this for a while; but since his widow's interview at the Hutton inquiry I am not so sure.. she ways that her husband was very shaken by the media intrusion and lack of support by his employers, and she had become worried about his welfare.. apparently Dr Kelly was a little worried anyway over his pension and damaged relationships with Iraqi scientists he had worked hard to forge. So did he commit suicide or was he killed by MI5? Who knows? Suicide look likely given his mental state and the intrusion he suffered and his wife's story... Blair has taken full responsibilty for the naming of Dr Kelly.. but this has all become a now forgotten side issue.. it's yesterday's news.. now the focus is on the dossier itself and the governments involvement in it...

The spotlight is now on the Hutton inquiry (an enquiry that has been set up to look into the dishonesty surrounding the Iraq dossier).. Blair has wangled out of it (what a suprise) but a couple of big names are about to go.... though the inquiry is not yet over, the inquiry has kind of sort of ambiguously confirmed that the document that took us to war was innacurate and flawed and quite possibly deliberately doctored to make a better case for war.....

It will be the ambiguity of the report that saves Emperor Blair.

the story continues....

Meanwhile, all supplements were banned... and the public knew NOTHING about this... but that's a whole other story...

 

[FatRat]

I would like to add something to this however Ashamed just about summed it all up. Blair has got through by the skin of his teeth due to others taking a fall for him. If elections where held now I'd like to think he would be out for what has gone on here, however the weakness of opposition at the moment means I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets through this in the long term

 

[Ashamed]

especially when so few people vote.... I didn't vote in the last 2 elections..... I'd vote green if we had proportional representation..... until we have proportional rep I will not vote.... Neither the UK or the USA have a real democracy i.e. German stylee.....

 

[FatRat]

Thats true, my vote will have no effect at all in my area. The trouble is that I dont see any alternatives with viable policies. When will there be a party run by "normal people" who make decisons that are actually in the interest of the public? User to be Labour I guess, but those days are gone.

 

[musclebrains]

Maybe they do. He could have been nekkid you know.

The Spanish love blue-eyed blond Americans. I rarely keep my clothes on there.

 

[musclebrains]

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/cnn___contains_no_news.html

"Our enemy is not terror, it is not Islam, it is not the radical suicide bomber, it is the threat to our society that ignorance poses to our nation. America has become a nation of misinformed radical flag wavers who do not even understand what they are supporting when they flaunt their patriotism. We are taught that democracy means that we all get to sing the national anthem before every sports even but we do not realize that without a free press we have no democracy."

The problem is in part that nationalism and patriotism have been conflated in their meanings. The former motivates conquest and usually has an ethnic dimension which has been starkly evident in the Muslim-bashing following 9/11. Indeed, you could argue that the attack on Iraq takes the form of a Crusade since there is utterly no evidence of a meaningful relationship between Saddam and al quaeda and, we now learn, almost certainly no WMD. (The London Times reported this weekend that the Bush Aministration was trying to delay the report on the international search for WMD by 1400 appointees. They have found nothing conclusive. NOTHING. And the committee's nuclear experts, including an independent global group whose name I don't recall, believe with no exceptions that there was no effort at all to reconstitute a nuclear weapons program. Thus the sudden backpedaling about that by Bushies over the weekend. You'll recall Condy Rice repeatedly evoking the image of the mushroom cloud in her campaign for the invasion.)

Patriotism slides too easily into nationalism but I think of it as something more grounded in the philosphy by which we attempt to comport ourselves. My "flag waving" in Europe is usually cited when I point out the comparative lack of ethnic diversity in the European nations. Americans really have struggled with this issue when many European nations have not even had to. When they HAVE had to, their record is dreadful.

 

[spongebob]

Indeed, you could argue that the attack on Iraq takes the form of a Crusade since there is utterly no evidence of a meaningful relationship between Saddam and al quaeda

just out today that there very well may be a link between saddam and al-quaeda. i believe someone is sueing iraq for 9-11. i didnt catch all of it though.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Indeed, you could argue that the attack on Iraq takes the form of a Crusade since there is utterly no evidence of a meaningful relationship between Saddam and al quaeda and, we now learn, almost certainly no WMD. (The London Times reported this weekend that the Bush Aministration was trying to delay the report on the international search for WMD by 1400 appointees. They have found nothing conclusive. NOTHING. And the committee's nuclear experts, including an independent global group whose name I don't recall, believe with no exceptions that there was no effort at all to reconstitute a nuclear weapons program. Thus the sudden backpedaling about that by Bushies over the weekend. You'll recall Condy Rice repeatedly evoking the image of the mushroom cloud in her campaign for the invasion.)

While there is no WMD as yet unearthed - and may never be - I'd hesitate to use the word "Crusade" (you capitalized it) in its historical Muslims vs Christians sense. Iraq is pretty secular as Middle eastern nations go. If we invaded Iran or Saudi I'd agree more.

Patriotism slides too easily into nationalism but I think of it as something more grounded in the philosphy by which we attempt to comport ourselves. My "flag waving" in Europe is usually cited when I point out the comparative lack of ethnic diversity in the European nations. Americans really have struggled with this issue when many European nations have not even had to. When they HAVE had to, their record is dreadful.

You're calling two world wars a "dreadful record?"

 

[Testosterone boy]

just out today that there very well may be a link between saddam and al-quaeda. i believe someone is sueing iraq for 9-11. i didnt catch all of it though.

And that is the sketchiest evidence I have ever seen.