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Do You Believe That..

InquisitivePsyche

InquisitivePsyche

New member
TRUTH, is just something that is impossible for a person to doubt? I mean if you REALLY think about it - what IS truth? Is there really a truth? Is truth contingent upon society? Are there many truths? Just curious...










P.S. This may be a bit too much for some to think about...
j/k
 
you know, there's a Mensa board out there.....but thanks for blessing a juicer board with your overflowing cup of knowledge. how about : Truth = Fact.
 
The truth is the truth.
 
makes me wanna smoke in the worse way. speaking of Menthol 100's, where's Smurfette?
 
There is no truth but only perception and perception is reality.

Once a person figures this out, the happier they will then become. :)
 
untrue. reality doesn't differ from person to person. mentally ill people have delusions, and their perceptions are not reality. reality is a fact. perception is how you interpet it.
 
HumanTarget said:
untrue. reality doesn't differ from person to person. mentally ill people have delusions, and their perceptions are not reality. reality is a fact. perception is how you interpet it.
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.........
 
this heating pad has become my best friend.

I'm going to ask it to marry me.


That is my truth.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
TRUTH, is just something that is impossible for a person to doubt? I mean if you REALLY think about it - what IS truth? Is there really a truth? Is truth contingent upon society? Are there many truths? Just curious...










P.S. This may be a bit too much for some to think about...
j/k
Click to expand...

truth is something you cannot doubt
 
javaguru said:
Don't accept less than a carat....
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Nah, I'm going to give it a ring and lick its little control knob. I LOVE it that much. What sweet relief it has given me today. I just warm it up and the persistent back pain melts away into NOTHING.

Oh God bless!

Religious experience.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
TRUTH, is just something that is impossible for a person to doubt? I mean if you REALLY think about it - what IS truth? Is there really a truth? Is truth contingent upon society? Are there many truths? Just curious...










P.S. This may be a bit too much for some to think about...
j/k
Click to expand...


You are thinking of situational ethics.. dont go there.. it leads to you having a career in politics
 
EnderJE said:
How much longer? Sleepless nights yet? Does Jack like being a Dad?
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Baby isn't due until August.

Jack would be good with the baby, but we haven't had any discussions that heavy, beyond him being "uncle jack."
 
heatherrae said:
Baby isn't due until August.

Jack would be good with the baby, but we haven't had any discussions that heavy, beyond him being "uncle jack."
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C'mon! I've got the two of you getting married in the HR vs JS polls. Whoops.
 
EnderJE said:
C'mon! I've got the two of you getting married in the HR vs JS polls. Whoops.
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lol...are there polls somewhere? I need to go vote.
 
heatherrae said:
lol...are there polls somewhere? I need to go vote.
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Nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. There are no polls.

Psst...if you get married in two years then I get a free plat. C'mon. Help me out.
 
EnderJE said:
Nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. There are no polls.

Psst...if you get married in two years then I get a free plat. C'mon. Help me out.
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hehehehe...you have to hit JS up to help you out. I'm old fashioned. He would have to propose.
 
HumanTarget said:
you know, there's a Mensa board out there.....but thanks for blessing a juicer board with your overflowing cup of knowledge. how about : Truth = Fact.
Click to expand...
Not so sure I agree that truth = fact. What about a persons relationship to God? For instance, my truth is right for me (my relationship to God) and yours is right for you (your relationship with God). So whose truth is correct?

I guess you can also say, just because society claims that certain things in the law are true, does that necessarily make them true? Nope - they are contigent upon society because truths change.
 
It is all very relative
 
HumanTarget said:
untrue. reality doesn't differ from person to person. mentally ill people have delusions, and their perceptions are not reality. reality is a fact. perception is how you interpet it.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but that is YOUR perception and you are entitled to it.

Four people are standing at an intersection and a motor vehicle accident occurs. All four people saw it and all four give differing accounts of what they saw. Who is telling the truth?
 
BIKINIMOM said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but that is YOUR perception and you are entitled to it.

Four people are standing at an intersection and a motor vehicle accident occurs. All four people saw it and all four give differing accounts of what they saw. Who is telling the truth?
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then i will have to use my perception to try and siphon the facts out of 4 idiots. like i am doing now.
 
HumanTarget said:
then i will have to use my perception to try and siphon the facts out of 4 idiots. like i am doing now.
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How are they idiots?

They saw the same accident from four different physical angles and they are four different people with totally differing frames of reference.

You should really try being less of a bully. It doesn't become you.
 
Your example is flawed, IP. A person's relationship with God is based on faith - not "truth." Truth is absolute; something either is or it is not. There is no philisophical debate to be had here. It may be true that you believe in god, It is the fact that you believe that is true, not what you believe. Therefore a person who is Athiest does not contradict in this example. It is also true that the athiest does NOT believe in God.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Not so sure I agree that truth = fact. What about a persons relationship to God? For instance, my truth is right for me (my relationship to God) and yours is right for you (your relationship with God). So whose truth is correct?

I guess you can also say, just because society claims that certain things in the law are true, does that necessarily make them true? Nope - they are contigent upon society because truths change.
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The truth is the one that is right.

We just dont know the truth in that case. :) We may belive that we know the truth ; but we dont.
 
nefertiti said:
Your example is flawed, IP. A person's relationship with God is based on faith - not "truth." Truth is absolute; something either is or it is not. There is no philisophical debate to be had here. It may be true that you believe in god, It is the fact that you believe that is true, not what you believe. Therefore a person who is Athiest does not contradict in this example. It is also true that the athiest does NOT believe in God.
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EXACTLY.
 
nefertiti said:
Your example is flawed, IP. A person's relationship with God is based on faith - not "truth." Truth is absolute; something either is or it is not. There is no philisophical debate to be had here. It may be true that you believe in god, It is the fact that you believe that is true, not what you believe. Therefore a person who is Athiest does not contradict in this example. It is also true that the athiest does NOT believe in God.
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This was a huge topic in one of the law classes that I took. I do not believe it is flawed. MY truth to God is what my faith is. My faith is TRUE TO ME. There are MANY different truths. But is there a TRUE faith? No. This is what philosophy often refers to as "little T's." Even in religion this is considered. For instance, take Judaism - Orthodox claims there is one truth and that is to strictly follow the laws of God however when Reform/Conservative formed as a rebellion against Orthodox, they also coined the term "little t's, because there are many truths to be found. Not just one - there is no absolute truth.

As in law - you couldn't be more wrong. Any law that is passed is based off of a truth that is found to be true at that time - yet, law changes FREQUENTLY. That is why Holmes says that truth is just whats impossible for a person to doubt. There isn't always ONE absolute truth. Sure you can say 2+2 = 4 but I am talking more about the philological and philosophical aspects.

I'll have to go through my notes again to refresh my memory but absolute truth can definitely be argued against. Anyone who is in law school knows this - to coin an "absolute truth," is not necessarily accurate.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
This was a huge topic in one of the law classes that I took. I do not believe it is flawed. MY truth to God is what my faith is. My faith is TRUE TO ME. There are MANY different truths. But is there a TRUE faith? No. This is what philosophy often refers to as "little T's." Even in religion this is considered. For instance, take Judaism - Orthodox claims there is one truth and that is to strictly follow the laws of God however when Reform/Conservative formed as a rebellion against Orthodox, they also coined the term "little t's, because there are many truths to be found. Not just one - there is no absolute truth.

As in law - you couldn't be more wrong. Any law that is passed is based off of a truth that is found to be true at that time - yet, law changes FREQUENTLY. That is why Holmes says that truth is just whats impossible for a person to doubt. There isn't always ONE absolute truth. Sure you can say 2+2 = 4 but I am talking more about the philological and philosophical aspects.

I'll have to go through my notes again to refresh my memory but absolute truth can definitely be argued against. Anyone who is in law school knows this - to coin an "absolute truth," is not necessarily accurate.
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But there are absolute truths. Just because we cant prove at the time if it is a TRUTH ; does not make it any less of a fact. Trying to find the absolute truths out there may be a problem ; but the problem is not that they dont exist but we are not able to find them and instead of admitting we are flawed ; we try to explain a grey area. Its human nature to do so.

Quit thinking so much! :)
 
:rolleyes:

Sorry, I went to Wharton instead of law school.

You are missing my point entirely. Things that were once true and are no longer true doesn't contradict anything I said. As far as the religious aspect...well I'm not going to get into that with you. But to call a belief a "truth" is, in my opinion, a missuse of the word.
 
cindylou said:
But there are absolute truths. Just because we cant prove at the time if it is a TRUTH ; does not make it any less of a fact. Trying to find the absolute truths out there may be a problem ; but the problem is not that they dont exist but we are not able to find them and instead of admitting we are flawed ; we try to explain a grey area. Its human nature to do so.

Quit thinking so much! :)
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:) I like thinking. It's interesting to hear others opinions as well. So I'm curious to know what you think about this scenario:

If I kill someone who raped and murdered my child, is that wrong? If so, is that the absolute truth - that it's wrong to kill? What truth results from this situation? Society has obviously made laws regarding this so ultimately, what's true is that it is wrong to murder another. Do you believe that it is wrong to kill? Is that true? But in other countries killing someone who rapes and murders your child is not viewed at as being wrong so therefore, there truth is different from ours. This is why, in law, it is debated so much.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
:) I like thinking. It's interesting to hear others opinions as well. So I'm curious to know what you think about this scenario:

If I kill someone who raped and murdered my child, is that wrong? If so, is that the absolute truth - that it's wrong to kill? What truth results from this situation? Society has obviously made laws regarding this so ultimately, what's true is that it is wrong to murder another. Do you believe that it is wrong to kill? Is that true? But in other countries killing someone who rapes and murders your child is not viewed at as being wrong so therefore, there truth is different from ours. This is why, in law, it is debated so much.
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i think you're confusing opinion, law, and truth.
whether something is right or wrong is always going to be a matter of opinion and an opinion is never going to be a truth, other than the fact that it's true that its your opinion.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
:) I like thinking. It's interesting to hear others opinions as well. So I'm curious to know what you think about this scenario:

If I kill someone who raped and murdered my child, is that wrong? If so, is that the absolute truth - that it's wrong to kill? What truth results from this situation? Society has obviously made laws regarding this so ultimately, what's true is that it is wrong to murder another. Do you believe that it is wrong to kill? Is that true? But in other countries killing someone who rapes and murders your child is not viewed at as being wrong so therefore, there truth is different from ours. This is why, in law, it is debated so much.
Click to expand...

You are speaking in broad terms, I am not.

In your latest example, it is true that you killed this person. It is then the opinion - the belief - of the lawmakers in this country that it is wrong.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
:) I like thinking. It's interesting to hear others opinions as well. So I'm curious to know what you think about this scenario:

If I kill someone who raped and murdered my child, is that wrong? If so, is that the absolute truth - that it's wrong to kill? What truth results from this situation? Society has obviously made laws regarding this so ultimately, what's true is that it is wrong to murder another. Do you believe that it is wrong to kill? Is that true? But in other countries killing someone who rapes and murders your child is not viewed at as being wrong so therefore, there truth is different from ours. This is why, in law, it is debated so much.
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I'm thinking that trying to make an opinion FACT will def. take some time! Is killing someone wrong? Thats an opinion. A law is not a truth ; but a standard of conduct to maintain society. Just because there is a law out there has nothing to do with what is true.


Is killing WRONG? What makes something wrong?
 
nefertiti said:
You are speaking in broad terms, I am not.

In your latest example, it is true that you killed this person. It is then the opinion - the belief - of the lawmakers in this country that it is wrong.
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Totally understand what you're saying. But truth goes further than "the truth = you killed someone." THAT is true, yes - but what I am talking about also deals with truth. :) Why do you think people claim what the Bible says is 100% true even though they are not taking into context, the fact that it was written at a completely different time with different ideas/presumptions, etc, which makes for different truths. According to some extremists, the fact that an eye for an eye is written there, makes it an absolute truth. Thats why I'm saying there are so many questions about it. Not everything is clean cut.

But, I do see what you're saying. I am taking it one step further. :)
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Totally understand what you're saying. But truth goes further than "the truth = you killed someone." THAT is true, yes - but what I am talking about also deals with truth. :) Why do you think people claim what the Bible says is 100% true even though they are not taking into context, the fact that it was written at a completely different time with different ideas/presumptions, etc, which makes for different truths. According to some extremists, the fact that an eye for an eye is written there, makes it an absolute truth. Thats why I'm saying there are so many questions about it. Not everything is clean cut.

But, I do see what you're saying. I am taking it one step further. :)
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You are still getting mixed up. The "truth" in your latest is that the person believes it to be true. It is the belief that is true, not the bible. You really aren't taking this "one step further"....more like a zig zag to the left.
 
nefertiti said:
You are still getting mixed up. The "truth" in your latest is that the person believes it to be true. It is the belief that is true, not the bible. You really aren't taking this "one step further"....more like a zig zag to the left.
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But see this is where you aren't understanding - to many people THAT IS THE TRUTH. It isn't a BELIEF to them - It's TRUTH. Which is why I am saying there are many different truths in certain circumstances. This is primarily, what has caused arguments about truth. Especially religion. :)
 
I know exactly what you are saying.

But you are still missing me entirely.

"Truth" either is or is not. It REALLY is that simple. One can have an opinion on truth, they can accept something as truth, but that is completely seperate of whether or not the item in question actually IS true. That is where opinion, belief, faith, whatever comes into the equation.
 
Take one colorblind person and one who is blind

They are both looking at a blue sweater.

The colorblind person says "the sweater is green!" (to them the sweater is green that is their truth")

The blind person says " I cant see a sweater!" (to them ; they dont know what color it is besides what the color blind person may say)

What is the truth here?

Truth = the sweater is blue ; no matter what the others believe to be true.
 
Lets say you have something that cant be proven:

GOD

IS there a god what is the truth?

We dont know the truth ; but there IS one! There cant be more than one truth! So perceived truth does not = the truth.
 
cindylou said:
Take one colorblind person and one who is blind

They are both looking at a blue sweater.

The colorblind person says "the sweater is green!" (to them the sweater is green that is their truth")

The blind person says " I cant see a sweater!" (to them ; they dont know what color it is besides what the color blind person may say)

What is the truth here?

Truth = the sweater is blue ; no matter what the others believe to be true.
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Yes your example is correct. I am not saying certain things aren't 100% true. I am saying that not everything is 100% true. My example that I said previously, is an accurate representation. There is more than one truth in certain scenarios.
 
nefertiti said:
I know exactly what you are saying.

But you are still missing me entirely.

"Truth" either is or is not. It REALLY is that simple. One can have an opinion on truth, they can accept something as truth, but that is completely seperate of whether or not the item in question actually IS true. That is where opinion, belief, faith, whatever comes into the equation.
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So what is the TRUE answer about this scenario:

You and I are in a car - I am cold but you are hot. We both state this. Who is right? Or are there multiple truths? What is the temperature, really? How can you say one is right and one is wrong? This is what is debated - this situation is what they use as an example in law - not this PARTICULARLY but this type.
 
cindylou said:
In the area of religion?

Dont you agree that even in THAT area there is only ONE truth?
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Most definitely not. In the religious class I took which was very philosophical/philological, we had a week on this.

There are multple truths - for instance, the area of secular/modern Judaism talks about this a lot.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
So what is the TRUE answer about this scenario:

You and I are in a car - I am cold but you are hot. We both state this. Who is right? Or are there multiple truths? What is the temperature, really? How can you say one is right and one is wrong? This is what is debated - this situation is what they use as an example in law - not this PARTICULARLY but this type.
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a truth = a FACT not an opinion.

Hot and cold are words used to describe something. Lets say its 99 degrees outside. If I say "I'm hot" or "It's hot" that would be my opinion.

The truth is that its 99 degrees outside.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
So what is the TRUE answer about this scenario:

You and I are in a car - I am cold but you are hot. We both state this. Who is right? Or are there multiple truths? What is the temperature, really? How can you say one is right and one is wrong? This is what is debated - this situation is what they use as an example in law - not this PARTICULARLY but this type.
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Simple.

It is true that you are cold. It is true that I am hot. It is true that it is x degrees out. Perception isn't truth, it is...perception.
 
cindylou said:
a truth = a FACT not an opinion.

Hot and cold are words used to describe something. Lets say its 99 degrees outside. If I say "I'm hot" or "It's hot" that would be my opinion.

The truth is that its 99 degrees outside.
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Ok and that's great. But if it's 60 degrees out and someone says I'm hot and another says I'm cold? Who's right? Is it hot or cold? You totally prove my point. That truth is based on OPINION. Which is why truth can be debatable.

Exactly what is argued. :) So what is it? Is 60 hot or cold? You cannot say. To me, if I'm got, my truth is that it's hot. Simple as that.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Ok and that's great. But if it's 60 degrees out and someone says I'm hot and another says I'm cold? Who's right? Is it hot or cold? You totally prove my point. That truth is based on OPINION. Which is why truth can be debatable.

Exactly what is argued. :) So what is it? Is 60 hot or cold? You cannot say. To me, if I'm got, my truth is that it's hot. Simple as that.
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NO! Hot and cold are words used to describe OPINIONS!

THE TRUTH is that it is 60 degrees out. You cant try to find truth in an opinion.

when you say who is right ; what does RIGHT mean?
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Ok and that's great. But if it's 60 degrees out and someone says I'm hot and another says I'm cold? Who's right? Is it hot or cold? You totally prove my point. That truth is based on OPINION. Which is why truth can be debatable.

Exactly what is argued. :) So what is it? Is 60 hot or cold? You cannot say. To me, if I'm got, my truth is that it's hot. Simple as that.
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opinion is not truth.
i can't see any sane person thinking it is, either.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Ok and that's great. But if it's 60 degrees out and someone says I'm hot and another says I'm cold? Who's right? Is it hot or cold? You totally prove my point. That truth is based on OPINION. Which is why truth can be debatable.

Exactly what is argued. :) So what is it? Is 60 hot or cold? You cannot say. To me, if I'm got, my truth is that it's hot. Simple as that.
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Wrong. But I'm not going to bother explaining it again, because apparently you were more interested in talking at people than with them. The irony that someone would start a thread with implications that she might be getting too "deep" for some people when she in fact misses the mark on her own point.
 
cindylou said:
NO! Hot and cold are words used to describe OPINIONS!

THE TRUTH is that it is 60 degrees out. You cant try to find truth in an opinion.

when you say who is right ; what does RIGHT mean?
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You keep proving my point.

You CAN find truth in opinions! That is what makes up so much of our law in society today! Other than mathematical formulas, give me a truth that is not based around opinion.

And by saying that it's just 60 degrees out and that you cannot state whether it's hot or cold is inaccurate. That's what the "little t's," are. That's the point. There are MULTIPLE truths. To me it's hot but to you, YOUR TRUTH, it's cold. Are you saying that I don't truly believe it's hot? And that it isn't true? So by me saying I am hot, am I wrong? No, because that is MY truth. Very philosophical. :)

See I like having debates with you because you don't start insulting, attacking, or turning it on me. :)
 
nefertiti said:
Wrong. But I'm not going to bother explaining it again, because apparently you were more interested in talking at people than with them. The irony that someone would start a thread with implications that she might be getting too "deep" for some people when she in fact misses the mark on her own point.
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Are you going to take my humor as insulting and others who CONSTANTLY post sarcasm/humor on their threads, as a joke?

Please - go read back at other posts - when it was Biteme, I believe who claimed that "Some people should pick up the book Republic....although, other perhaps the cliff notes." - PURELY a joke and I am sure you can understand his humor.

Did you take his humor seriously? I think you just want to argue and attack. And you don't need to explain further. I completely understand what you're saying however many scholars/philosophers would argue with you. Funny because I already said I totally see your point yet you cannot see mine. Interesting..
 
stilleto said:
InquisitivePsyche said:
I think you just want to argue and attack.
QUOTE]

ANOTHER person you feel is attacking you?

girlfriend, lighten up! its the internet! nobody is attacking you!
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I think we are thinking of 'attacking' in a different way. To me, I feel as though at times on here, I am purposely being attacked. And you can tell me to lighten up, but perhaps others need to as well. :)

I am just having an intellectual debate. That is all. I am not insulting, trying not to attack, etc. Perhaps you should also tell Neferetti to lighten up? Just saying...
Click to expand...
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Are you going to take my humor as insulting and others who CONSTANTLY post sarcasm/humor on their threads, as a joke?

Please - go read back at other posts - when it was Biteme, I believe who claimed that "Some people should pick up the book Republic....although, other perhaps the cliff notes."

Did you take his humor seriously? I think you just want to argue and attack. And you don't need to explain further. I completely understand what you're saying however many scholars/philosophers would argue with you. Funny because I already said I totally see your point yet you cannot see mine. Interesting..
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:rolleyes: @ "many scholars"...such as yourself?

I don't take your humor seriously, darling. But your humor falls right in line with the sort of things people here get frustrated with you about.

I see exactly what you are saying, and I do not agree. That doesn't mean I don't understand you. You are the one continually missing my point, and frankly, I'm bored with talking to someone who offers nothing to a conversation except "I am right and smart people agree with me - here's why:"
 
nefertiti said:
:rolleyes: @ "many scholars"...such as yourself?

I don't take your humor seriously, darling. But your humor falls right in line with the sort of things people here get frustrated with you about.

I see exactly what you are saying, and I do not agree. That doesn't mean I don't understand you. You are the one continually missing my point, and frankly, I'm bored with talking to someone who offers nothing to a conversation except "I am right and smart people agree with me - here's why:"
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Funny. Sorry you're assuming that because I never said that. I'm saying from what I HAVE LEARNED, and from who I have read in class and what not, that is how I base my arguments. So yes, for this particular case certain scholars/philosophers WOULD agree. I'm sure there are those who wouldn't as well. But I am not talking about those. If I am trying to support my point, why would I bring them up? :rolleyes:

I'm also sorry that you take my resources as an attempt to claim I am smarter than you because certain scholars agree with me. Not the case at all. As I said, I am using resources i know of. That is all.

P.S. I do see your point for the last time. If you're bored, that's fine... no need to post anymore.
 
And for the record, I have never participated in any discussions about you save the one thread today and have purposely avoided all of it. I even told you within your first few weeks here that the high and mighty thing wouldn't win you fans. I was trying to help you out. So you really do't have a basis for accusing me of "attacking."
 
nefertiti said:
And for the record, I have never participated in any discussions about you save the one thread today and have purposely avoided all of it. I even told you within your first few weeks here that the high and mighty thing wouldn't win you fans. I was trying to help you out. So you really do't have a basis for accusing me of "attacking."
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That's fine. I don't need to "win fans." I speak my mind and try not to insult others while doing it. If you view disagreeing as a matter of insulting, I'm sorry. You misunderstand. I don't conform and I don't change the way I am because I am trying to "win fans."

P.S. I've had people PM me or message me w/ karma telling me people can be difficult around here and just to stand my ground and I wouldn't do it any other way. Any thread I start, someone wants to bitch. Any comment I make, same thing goes.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Are you going to take my humor as insulting and others who CONSTANTLY post sarcasm/humor on their threads, as a joke?

Please - go read back at other posts - when it was Biteme, I believe who claimed that "Some people should pick up the book Republic....although, other perhaps the cliff notes." - PURELY a joke and I am sure you can understand his humor.

Did you take his humor seriously? I think you just want to argue and attack. And you don't need to explain further. I completely understand what you're saying however many scholars/philosophers would argue with you. Funny because I already said I totally see your point yet you cannot see mine. Interesting..
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hey, that was me, not biteme....and i really didn't mean it as a joke...

i'd suggest that you read it. It's basic philosophy.
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
That's fine. I don't need to "win fans." I speak my mind and try not to insult others while doing it. If you view disagreeing as a matter of insulting, I'm sorry. You misunderstand. I don't conform and I don't change the way I am because I am trying to "win fans."

P.S. I've had people PM me or message me w/ karma telling me people can be difficult around here and just to stand my ground and I wouldn't do it any other way. Any thread I start, someone wants to bitch. Any comment I make, same thing goes.
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You're taking my choice of words a tad too literally. Though "win fans" wasn't the way I put it then, anyway. I said you were going to rub people wrong. Not with your opinions, but the WAY you state them. Standing your ground is fine, great, I support that. I'd never suggest someone be meek and flow with the masses to win approval - I've never been like that either. But if you're tired of the way people react to you around here...you make your own bed in HOW you speak, not what you say.
 
Using the heat example.

1. Being hot or cold is an individual perspective.

2. At a certain temperature enough of a sample population believes it is hot or cold that you would get a consensus answer, it doesn't make it truth, it's just an opinion held by a "critical mass" of the population. At some point it will be so hot or so cold that 100% of the human population will agree. That still doesn't make it truth, the ambient temperature may still be in the comfort zone of some creature.

3. The only "truth" is the ambient temperature.
 
jerkbox said:
hey, that was me, not biteme....and i really didn't mean it as a joke...

i'd suggest that you read it. It's basic philosophy.
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Oops sorry. I knew it was either Biteme or you. Sorry. I know you didn't mean reading the book as a joke, but when you hinted at cliff notes for certain people, you can understand how people would take that in a certain way (such as some may not be fit enough to read the book which was why you suggested cliff notes). It's amazing how so many conclusions can come from a single sentence! LOL. I will check it out. Who's it by? I do need a good read.
 
javaguru said:
Using the heat example.

1. Being hot or cold is an individual perspective.

2. At a certain temperature enough of a sample population believes it is hot or cold that you would get a consensus answer, it doesn't make it truth, it's just an opinion held by a "critical mass" of the population. At some point it will be so hot or so cold that 100% of the human population will agree. That still doesn't make it truth, the ambient temperature may still be in the comfort zone of some creature.

3. The only "truth" is the ambient temperature.
Click to expand...
Ok. But what about the inbetween temps like 50-70 where there can be disagreement. That's still considered ambient temperature yet there are so many conclusions coming from it. :) So if I say I'm hot and it's 60 out - am I wrong? If I'm not wrong, then it's the truth for me, yeah?
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Oops sorry. I knew it was either Biteme or you. Sorry. I know you didn't mean reading the book as a joke, but when you hinted at cliff notes for certain people, you can understand how people would take that in a certain way (such as some may not be fit enough to read the book which was why you suggested cliff notes). It's amazing how so many conclusions can come from a single sentence! LOL. I will check it out. Who's it by? I do need a good read.
Click to expand...

well, the cliff notes applies to some people too...so i wasn't kidding about that either.

and actually, forget the Replublic, pick up Plato's Five Dialogues - particulary Euthyphro. Then read the Republic.
 
jerkbox said:
well, the cliff notes applies to some people too...so i wasn't kidding about that either.

and actually, forget the Replublic, pick up Plato's Five Dialogues - particulary Euthyphro. Then read the Republic.
Click to expand...
Oo, plato. Good reads. I find with philosophical readings, you have to read, read, and re read. LOL! Sometimes it can be rather confusing!

I'll write these down. Haven't read anything with philosophy or philology for quite some time. I take it you like philosopical readings? :)
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Ok. But what about the inbetween temps like 50-70 where there can be disagreement. That's still considered ambient temperature yet there are so many conclusions coming from it. :) So if I say I'm hot and it's 60 out - am I wrong? If I'm not wrong, then it's the truth for me, yeah?
Click to expand...
I know what you're trying to say. My point is that being hot or cold is a perspective. A belief may or not be a fact but believing something doesn't prove the truth of it.

Two people standing in a room looking at a thermometer will both agree on the temperature, it is a fact/truth. They will not necessarily agree on whether it is hot or cold as that is simple perspective.

To put it in simple terms. A fact can be objectively measured whereas perspective is subjective. Something subjective cannot be proven as fact/truth.
 
javaguru said:
I know what you're trying to say. My point is that being hot or cold is a perspective. A belief may or not be a fact but believing something doesn't prove the truth of it.

Two people standing in a room looking at a thermometer will both agree on the temperature, it is a fact/truth. They will not necessarily agree on whether it is hot or cold as that is simple perspective.
Click to expand...
Totally see your point. :) I'm just taking it a step further. Others may argue otherwise - perhaps we were in a room without a thermometer... I'm not wrong when I say I'm cold and you aren't wrong when you say you're hot. Sure they are opinions but there IS an answer.. just multiple. :)
 
What is WRONG though? What makes one person right and one person wrong? Thats not where you will find the truth? One person is NOT right and one person is NOT wrong!
 
InquisitivePsyche said:
Totally see your point. :) I'm just taking it a step further. Others may argue otherwise - perhaps we were in a room without a thermometer... I'm not wrong when I say I'm cold and you aren't wrong when you say you're hot. Sure they are opinions but there IS an answer.. just multiple. :)
Click to expand...
I know what you're working for but I'm not buying it. :)
 
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