Do Some of Choose Not to Believe in Christ Because of the Rules?

[curling]

Just wondering? It seems like alot of people don't want to acknowledge that God exists because they have some sin that they think they don't want to give up or they think they like their life the way it is and they would have to change alot to become a Christian?

Just curious? Anybody like that here?

 

[MortyJackson]

Nope. Just dont believe in god and especially christ because its fictional.

 

[curling]

Nope. Just dont believe in god and especially christ because its fictional.

What do you believe in then? Evolution, Scientology, Shirley McClain or what?

 

[alien amp pharm]

I'll admit that it is more fun being sinful, but more satisfying in the long run not sinning.

There's a lot I struggle with and at times I hate doing certain things I use to that were fun. And as for the continuing sin thing, there are a few that I work on but haven't succedded in stopping yet.

 

[MortyJackson]

What do you believe in then? Evolution, Scientology, Shirley McClain or what?

I believe everything has a scientific explanation.

 

[curling]

I'll admit that it is more fun being sinful, but more satisfying in the long run not sinning.

There is alot truth in your statement. Mainly because of the consequences of the short term fun sin that you have in the long run. I don't think I am going to live a very long healthy life because of some of the crap I did in my younger years. There is a few sins I still struggle with too.

 

[b fold the truth]

I think that if religion and Christianity went back to the basics, dropped the mis-conceptions and corruptions...A LOT more people in this world would believe...

B True

 

[danielson]

I think that if religion and Christianity went back to the basics, dropped the mis-conceptions and corruptions...A LOT more people in this world would believe...

B True

agreed, especially not on the just chrisitanity but religion in general

people seem to want to mess with the words and interpretations of religion, enforcing those interpretations upon others rather than just allowing people to freely choos the meaning themselves. a lot of mistakes might not have happened if this was done

i acknowledge god, not being a christian just mens i do it in a different way to you curling

 

[MortyJackson]

I think that if religion and Christianity went back to the basics, dropped the mis-conceptions and corruptions...A LOT more people in this world would believe...

B True

When would back to the basics be? The church has always been corrupt. We have more freedom today then any other time.

 

[Lao Tzu]

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. - Sir Stephen Henry Roberts



Therein lies the solution to why alot of atheists aren't christian.

 

[Puc]

Mostly it is because dumbfucks like yourself with no real understanding of religion or the bible arbitrarily use bits and pieces of it to justify your actions.

 

[big_bad_buff]

I believe everything has a scientific explanation.

explain your theory of ghosts and the supernatural things that happen in life (demon posession for one) that millions see, catch on video, etc etc.

 

[theoak01]

explain your theory of ghosts and the supernatural things that happen in life (demon posession for one) that millions see, catch on video, etc etc.

Thats what I want to hear ,I have first hand footage of this and do quite a bit of ghost research yet am very close to god

 

[casavant]

No man. Not really. I could give up a lot if I thought it guaranteed an afterlife full of heavenly bliss where I got to see loved ones that had passed away. Considering I'm not a horrible guy at the moment, I think I could adjust fairly well. Some of the most admirable people I know are devout Christians- they raised two absolutely gorgeous daughters who you could fall in love with and never stop falling....just keep tumbling down into one big beautiful abyss- but they would have been good people no matter what, I think. I could live in a situation like that...a beautiful loving wife and cool, supportive in-laws, a structured life, and an answer to why we are here.

But I just can't dig it man. I just can't believe in it all. I wish I could, but I don't think I ever will.

 

[Puc]

No man. Not really. I could give up a lot if I thought it guaranteed an afterlife full of heavenly bliss where I got to see loved ones that had passed away. Considering I'm not a horrible guy at the moment, I think I could adjust fairly well. Some of the most admirable people I know are devout Christians- they raised two absolutely gorgeous daughters who you could fall in love with and never stop falling....just keep tumbling down into one big beautiful abyss- but they would have been good people no matter what, I think. I could live in a situation like that...a beautiful loving wife and cool, supportive in-laws, a structured life, and an answer to why we are here.

But I just can't dig it man. I just can't believe in it all. I wish I could, but I don't think I ever will.

drill one hole in each temple. that is how the lord gets in.

 

[Bulk32]

you guys have brought up some really good points, but your missing the real issue in wanting or not wanting to be a Christian.

if you really want to get down to it, it really has nothing to do with sinning or how much you sin or even if your a good person or not. You can't work your way into heaven.

The only way to get into heaven is to accept Gods gift. ya see, he sent his son here to live a perfect life and then in the end to be crusified, like a white lamb. Why a white lamb? because a lamb is the meekest animal on the earth and white because Jesus lived a perfect life. thats something that none of us can do. he was innocent, but made himself a sacrifice for all of mankind, paying for all of our sins. that is why you will hear Christians often say, "Paid for by the blood of Jesus" because Jesus's blood is the only true innocent blood ever spilt on this earth.

in closing...am i one of those religious "fenatics" that walk right up to you and tell you, "YOUR WRONG AND GOING TO HELL!!!" No, im not. But what i am is a Christian, and i believe that Jesus died for me, and each and every other person on the face of this earth, the question is are you going to accept his personal gift or not? If you were the only person to ever live, it wouldn't change a thing, he would of died just for you, because he loves you that much.

You can either choose "yes, i accept Jesus's gift" or you can choose, "No, i don't want it or need it" or maybe you just don't believe in any of this. but realize that, deciding not to choose and is the same as saying no and denying Christ, which i believe means you will be in Hell someday if that is what you decide to stay with while on this earth.

 

[Nathan]

I primarily don't believe in God because such a thing has never and will never exist. As for Jesus, he was a gay shepherd that fucked sheep and other fluffy mammals. I definitely believe in that kind of thing. Maybe we aren't talking about the same Jeez though.

I am the only god.

 

[buckydingdong]

Humanism

I saw a lot of people lose their "faith" once they went off to college. A little education never hurts, nor does escaping the bible belt-ish ways of many small towns.

After a certain point, I no longer saw a reason to believe in a god, its just not logical at all. There is no theory or scientific finding that supports god, just stories. Before anyone says "oh, just worshipping science?" that isn't what its about, its about moving beyond worship and working with what is available in our society and world and making it better, or at least doing your best with what you have. Morals don't have to come from a religion.

Of course, if god itself ever showed us that all christianity/religion was true, I would convert in a heartbeat.

To better see how some people see that life without religion can in-fact be non-frightening and not empty, give this a read :

http://botany1.bio.utk.edu/skeptic/Essays/on death.html

 

[buckydingdong]

Bulk32: from your post, you believe anyone denying christ will go to hell? what about people practicing other religions? Are they just wrong? The only figure i could find on world christianity stats was that ~1/3 of the world is christian... the other 2/3 are just poor lost schmucks that burn eternally. Your 100% entitled to your beliefs.

 

[Norman Bates]

I have chosen not to believe in God because of the history of the religion.
The christian god came up as two different deities that were merged. One of them was a simple fertility god.
Important religion issues were simply changed to fit into the current time of the believers.
Religious ceremonies were adopted from other religions.

No one knows for sure if there is a supernatural being, but the christian god surely is made up by humans.

 

[Bulk32]

that stat is of the people that claim to be christians. i have no way of knowing if anyone is a christian, only God and that person know that for sure.

to answer your question:

To be honest, God is not about religion. Being a christian not about what denomination you are, its about having a relationship with God. for instance, i go to a Southern Baptist church. but when i die and go to heaven or if Christ returns before i die, he's not going to ask you if you were methadest or baptist, he is going to say, "I never knew you." or, "Well done, my good and faithful servant."

others say, "i don't want to be obligated to go to church, read my Bible and pray all of the time." well, it is actually fun to worship God when you are having a real relationship with your creator.

So to answer your question, yes if a person does not believe in that Jesus is the only way into heaven and does not accept it then he is going to Hell. plain and simple.

 

[Bulk32]

Also...

Sure God could magically appear in the sky, and show the whole world that he is supernatural and king of kings and lord of lords, but what would be the point then? what faith would we need then, of course we would all believe then.

Faith is the belief of something that can not yet be seen.

Not until you have faith in God, will you truly experience the power of God.

 

[kunta]

how convenient

 

[MortyJackson]

explain your theory of ghosts and the supernatural things that happen in life (demon posession for one) that millions see, catch on video, etc etc.

OK, I can explain. They are not real. People fake things like that all the time. Im sure it could be scientifically explained how some people make fake tapes or what problems with tapes make it look like there is something else there. However your demon possession thing is complete bullshit.

 

[big_bad_buff]

OK, I can explain. They are not real. People fake things like that all the time. Im sure it could be scientifically explained how some people make fake tapes or what problems with tapes make it look like there is something else there. However your demon possession thing is complete bullshit.

well I have personally seen something first hand, so I know for a fact what you just said is not true. 2nd, scientists have acknowledged these things, and are unable to explain them.

 

[buckydingdong]

I challenge anyone to post proof that a deity or supernatural god exists.


Not being an ass or anything hulk, but I just don't believe every story I hear. Kids believe in santa 100% until the wool is pulled from over their eyes.

Some good points to it, as with most any religion. Finding your own values through life experience is priceless.

 

[Bulk32]

no problem. i can't make people believe, that is their decision.

 

[BigRedCat]

I think Jesus may have been part alien. Seems very possible. I dont believe in a God in traditional sense. I dont think humans can comprehend what God is. It says something to that effect in the beginning of the bible. How would your view of religion change if you found fact that humans were put here by aliens and "God" and religion were given to us by them. Would that mean there is still a "God" but that the aliens would essentialy be "angels"? Many bible stories seem to depict aliens.

 

[curling]

I challenge anyone to post proof that a deity or supernatural god exists.

Can I reverse the challenge on you. Prove there isn't a God. You can't now can you. See the worse thing that will happen to me if I am wrong is I am going to die just like you. But if I am right and you are wrong, eternal damnation is long long time.

See that is the point. Nobody(human wise) has ever died and came back to tell us what happens. So no one(not even the smartest dang scientist in the world) knows what happens when you die. Can you afford to be wrong on such an important decision?

 

[Hollywood131]

So no one(not even the smartest dang scientist in the world) knows what happens when you die.

The condition of the dead is made clear at Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, where we read: "The dead know nothing . . . There is no pursuit, no plan, no knowledge or intelligence, within the grave." Death, therefore, is a state of nonexistence. The psalmist wrote that when a person dies, "his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts
do perish."—Psalm 146:4. Clearly, the dead do not exist. They cannot know anything. They cannot see you, hear you, or talk to you.

 

[curling]

If you want people to believe it then you should prove it.

Sure I would like you to believe it but I can't make you believe anything. Because it requires faith. All my job is to tell you about Christ then it is up to the Holy Spirit to lead you to Christ. You can still reject him that is all up to you.

Then in that same paragraph you have the "If i am right then i go to heaven but if you are wrong you go to hell". Basically its like you should believe in god for insurance purposes. Thats a shitty reason for adopting a religion.

It isn't the best one for sure and it isn't the reason I chose to believe I chose to believe for the relationship with God though his Son. He is an awesome God. He can bless you like no other. I just brought up the insurance argument because it is very logical for people that are hardheaded (not saying you are or anything).

Just because we cant explain something now doesnt mean we wont be able to in the future.

I totally agree with you there but I hope it won't be too late because it will be aweful hot when you come to the right conclusion.

 

[alien amp pharm]

Another thing that bothers me. So there is actually no proof of this until after we die. That is very convenient. If god can prove his existence to us once we are dead then why doesnt he do it while we are still alive? Maybe because he doesnt exist. Also if he is such a great guy then why would he send someone to hell for eternity who did not commit any serious crimes? That seems a little harsh to me.

God likes games so-to-speak. (no blasphemy by that) For example, why would God tell Adam & Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit? I mean he could have easily made it so they could eat it. Why is premartial sex wrong, and so on.... This is the same concept as to why he doesn't reveal himself to us. He wants us to choose him and worship/obey him. Not neccessarily be forced to.

Also, although usually related, crimes and sins aren't neccessarily the same. God will send people to hell who do not accept him and repent of sins. It has nothing to do with how good/bad a person is, or how many crimes he/she has commited (or lack thereof)

 

[Bulk32]

i do have proof and so does every Christian that has ever lived. when you become "born again" the Holy Spirit changes you from the inside. so when you ask, "prove it!" that is a hard question for me to physically or scientificly explain to you, even though i know 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that i am "saved"

 

[strengthfiend]

Miracles happen everyday you just have to learn to identify them.

Strengthfiend

 

[antikrist]

Can I reverse the challenge on you. Prove there isn't a God.

Only an arrogant teenager would attempt to prove/disprove the factuality of dog.

Personally, my rejection of dog was based not on a rational “proof” of his non-existence, but upon an understanding of the consequences of such an unhealthy, decadent, life-denying faith.

 

[buckydingdong]

Curling

Curling, for you only: do you believe god has a plan for each of us?

Bucky

 

[buckydingdong]

Not that I'm done arguing, but it does amaze me that people have the ability to read about earlier civilizations worshipping other gods, spirits, etc, and not realize that this is a repeating cycle. Were the greeks wrong for worshipping multiple gods? Do you really think every Zeus & Poseidon-fearing greek that ever lived is burning at this moment, saying "Shit, why didn't Christ come along a little sooner!?"
For SURE they are still around, materially, but not in any other way. why should they be? Did Zeus take them to mt. olympus, or valhalla, or Whatthehellever?

I'm certainly not saying anyone spiritual is stupid, but religion and spirituality run along somewhat different lines in some ways(although i think all spiritual/mystic experiences are simply workings within the brain.)

Imagine you died, and nothing happened. What is really so scary about that? death in itself probably wont hurt too bad, as long as i've achieved what i wanted to here, i am not afraid to pass on some day, though i dont look forward to it either.

Keep talking with me though, a lot of people get too offended in face to face conversations to keep talking.

 

[strengthfiend]

I want everyone to download Pachabel Canon in D by Mozart. Smoke a dube, do whatever you do, but really listen. I almost feel God right beside me. Hey I know it sounds crazy, but it is a great feeling.

Strengthfiend

 

[Drunken_Weasel]

I don't beleive in god for 2 reasons.. 1. doesnt make sense to me, 2. the shit I went thru as a kid (abusive father, ect). and If he does exist (very unlikely.. not even in my mind.. but ill say it for the hell of it) FUCK HIM.

 

[curling]

Re: Curling

Curling, for you only: do you believe god has a plan for each of us?

Bucky

For his own(people that have the faith to accept and believe in him), yes. For unsaved I don't think so unless He uses them for some other purpose.

 

[curling]

I don't beleive in god for 2 reasons.. 1. doesnt make sense to me, 2. the shit I went thru as a kid (abusive father, ect). and If he does exist (very unlikely.. not even in my mind.. but ill say it for the hell of it) FUCK HIM.

I am sorry to hear about your dad. Mine was kind of jerk too. I always told him that he wasn't that tough of a dude to punch a 15 year old(even though I got punched again for saying it).

Having a crappy dad makes it harder for people I think to accept God because He is a Father also. So they already think the father figure sux. But God is a GOOD father. He doesn't abuse you He disciplines you but he doesn't get drunk and hit you because he had a bad day at work.

As far as your first argumnet about the making sense. Just look at a sunrise sometime, or a humming bird taking necter from a flower or how it feels when your chick looks at you with love in her eyes that makes you feel like you are on top of the world. All that just doesn't happen by chance. It happens because there is one smart, loving, caring God that designed it all as a gift to us we call life.

Bucky,

I will get to your post but I have to go show a property be back this afternoon.

Once again sorry about your dad drunken I can totally relate. But don't let some jerk stop you from achieving enternal bliss dude. He just aint' worth it.

 

[Puc]

I am sorry to hear about your dad. Mine was kind of jerk too. I always told him that he wasn't that tough of a dude to punch a 15 year old(even though I got punched again for saying it).

Having a crappy dad makes it harder for people I think to accept God because He is a Father also. So they already think the father figure sux. But God is a GOOD father. He doesn't abuse you He disciplines you but he doesn't get drunk and hit you because he had a bad day at work.

As far as your first argumnet about the making sense. Just look at a sunrise sometime, or a humming bird taking necter from a flower or how it feels when your chick looks at you with love in her eyes that makes you feel like you are on top of the world. All that just doesn't happen by chance. It happens because there is one smart, loving, caring God that designed it all as a gift to us we call life.

Bucky,

I will get to your post but I have to go show a property be back this afternoon.

Once again sorry about your dad drunken I can totally relate. But don't let some jerk stop you from achieving enternal bliss dude. He just aint' worth it.

Actually curling... The attractive visual impact of a creature is one of the traits that gives them a better chance to breed. Therefore, a better chance to spread their particular genes.

Most pets, for instance, have now evolved due directly to humanity. The cute ones grow cuter and more lovable because their parents were so, etc.

People who purport that our reality could not have existed without some kind of outside influence are dim. Curling, what you fail to understand is that there is an infinite number of possible arrangements of life. Our little world is just one of the feasible set of factors that could evolve in such a way.

Our complexity, or our beauty, do not indicate an outside force. Our perception of the beauty and complexity in which we live is directly the result of our kind having evolved here, however.

I feel like a tool for even arguing with you because your views are so childlike i have difficulty in accepting that you really exist. I find it a more likely scenario that you are a long running alter ego of another member. I think perhaps you are satire.

 

[Liftbig]

i agree with bulk23, i am a christian and i accept God. i know he is there becuase i have felt the Holy spirit move in me, when you feel it you will know. also another thing that helps me beleive is my sister. she has numerous health problems(shes 24) two summers ago she had an abcess on her brain the swelled putting pressure on the brain, she was in the hospital from june untill around christmas of the year, in that time she should have died 4 times, she had three open brain surgeries to releive the condition. while in the hospital her lungs shut off dues to blood clots and she had a pulmonary embelesom(sp?), she has to take coumadin for the rest of her life. last spring when she was starting to be able to walk again(the abcess destroyed some memory of how to do simple things like walk, stand up, etc, which she has had to relearn) an ex-freind of hers took her to a party where she was drugged and raped, and she got pregnant. becuase the coumdin would kill the baby, she had to swith to lovenox which had to be injected twice a day by our mom, this lasted till last nov when she had the baby. Thankfully she did not get any stds or anything else from the bastard (who we dont know who it is, even the girl who took her there didnt know), in nov her duaghter was born three weeks early, but thankfully was fully developed and healthy as any other baby. thats not all,finaly she has been able to get her liscence reinstated and can do just about anything she did before all of this, last week she was driving to her lawyers(all of this detroyed he credit and other things becuase she cannot support herself anymore, Thank God for federal help for people in this condition) and she was rearened by a speeder, and it sent her car into a spin, she hit the median wall, flipped onto the other side and the car rolled a few times into on coming traffic, needless to say her car was totaled, the police officer said by al rights she should have died becuase of the state of the car, Thankfully again she survived and caem away with only bruises and a sore body. the thing that keeps my sister alive is her faith that God will take care of things, and he has.

also, to add christianity is NOT about religion, its not about church, its about you and God, it is a relationship. NO christians are perfect, none have no sin or are better than anyone else. Do i cuss, yes, DO i sin, yes, do i go to church every sunday, no, Do i get mad and angry at people, yes, am i perfect NO, do i have all the answers, no.

 

[scrummy]

There is a really easy way to look at religion or try to understand why some people are more into religion.

If you live you whole life believing in God and trying to be a good person and when you die, you find out that it was a hoax (No God, No Heaven, No Hell. nada)what have you lost? Maybe an hour in church once a week.

But if you live your whole life believing in God and when you die, you find out that the whole God scene was real and you have gained a great deal.

That's one of those pseudo philosophical religious statements that come up in religion arguments.

Some of the aethiest s(spelling? sorry) I know just find it easier to not be accountable for their actions. It is definately easier to do whatever the hell you want and think their are no consequences. They are usually the people who consider themselves just a little more intelligent because the don't follow the religious masses. Like they have the upper hand on the ways of the universe. They try so hard to be different, and in doing so they end up the same as all the others trying to be different.sad really.

sorry about the rambling and poor sent. structure

 

[scrummy]

I wasn't trying to explain religion in terms of insurance. I have just heard that explaination used by people trying to explain their beliefs to others who didn't just understand the whole "faith" thing. Some people don't get that it's ok to just believe in something. The same way it's ok for you not to believe in it.

If you read my post again, you will notice it says, "The aethiests I know". I do not know every aethist. I was referring to the ones I know and how they behave. I said nothing of stealing or killing. I just referred to the way the treat other people and their lifestyle. I like to call it personal experience. That mean I am describing what I have experienced. Just me. I am not referring to you or about you. ok. ok.

 

[circusgirl]

Hmm I'm going to answer curling's question seriously because overallI I think he's a good guy (and he gave us such a laugh with the story about the dead cow...).

The rules have nothing to do with my nonbelief. My view is, you believe or you don't. I happen to believe that ghosts, spirits etc are real. I see that as fact. It is that real to me. I know a lot of other people think I'm an idiot for believing that.

I just never have believed in God. I think there is a life after death, but I have no idea what the deal is. I know people float around sometimes in spirit guise after death, I just know way too many sensible people who have seen/heard things. But I don't believe in God in the way that the faithful just see God as fact and as real.

BTW, Christianity acknowledges spirits and ghosts for those who are wondering, there is no conflct. I knew a guy who practiced Christian magic, he communed with good spirits to send people good luck and happiness and protect them from evil. Well, that's what he wanted to do anyway/

If I really believed the CHristian creed, you bet your ass I'd follow them rules.

Having said that, I do believe this Jesus dude existed, just not that he was part god. And he talked a lot of sense - the most important thing is to be nice. Nice to everyone, whenever you can. I agree with that 100%.

I know some Christians who claim that organised churches are actually the devil hijacking the concept of faith, but that's another discussion.

And re those who died before 0AD, apparently, according to catholic doctrine, they were all saved simultaneously by Jesus's death on the cross, the idea is that heaven was closed until then after the eviction from Eden and then Jesus's death was supposed to reopen the gates and let in all the folks who were wandering around outside?

 

[scrummy]

Mortyjackson

First I'll say" Hi my name is scrummy and I am a born sinner. I am not perfect and I have done some not so great things in the past and being human, I assume I will do some not so great things in the future." With my religious annonymous greeting out of the way, let's move on.
I'll probably get nailed for being a judgemental prude, but here goes. Ok, the big one is cheating on the spouse. Yuck. I just do not get it. You marry the person (some in churches, some not) and now you(s) are out boning other people.
And um here goes...abortion. Yes I said it and I am waiting for the backlash.
The last one is just the basic "aging- dirty -skunty -bar whore" (male or female) who sleeps with anything and doesn't respect themselves or other people around them.

I know that some of these things might seem petty or minor to some people but oh well. I know that not every person who does not believe in God does not ask this way, but you asked for my personal experience and that is it.

 

[scrummy]

Mortyjackson,

I agree with everything you said. I know lots of religious people who do shitty things. That's why I put the disclaimers at the beginning and the end. I was really just answering the specific question that you asked me. I was describing the people I knew specifically.

A friend of mine is the child of a women who was seeing a priest for marriage councelling and said priest. See, religious and not so great. I really was just trying to answer your question about the aethist i knew.

hope you don't think i am making a generalization about believe in God=good vs. don't believe=bad.

and i'm off.

 

[Imnotdutch]

We have had this discussion before. It is impossible to prove a negative and you know it. On the other hand, if God does exist you should be able to prove it in a heartbeat.

In reference to the rst of your post, what makes you so sure that your belief is correct and every other is wrong? There are many different beliefs, why is yours the correct one?

For the record........I believe in myself. I seem to do just fine with that.

Can I reverse the challenge on you. Prove there isn't a God. You can't now can you. See the worse thing that will happen to me if I am wrong is I am going to die just like you. But if I am right and you are wrong, eternal damnation is long long time.

See that is the point. Nobody(human wise) has ever died and came back to tell us what happens. So no one(not even the smartest dang scientist in the world) knows what happens when you die. Can you afford to be wrong on such an important decision?