Do all orals negatively affect lipds?

[artificialaspirations]

I constantly hear of the damage that var can due to one's lipid values. Recently I've read of winny doing the same thing, i.e. raising the bad, lowering the good.

Question: Does Dbol, drol, turinabol, or even proviron do the same?

If so, to what extent?

 

[FRONT2BACKJACKED]

toremifene and exemstane increase your good cholesterol and help out lipids and prostate

out of all those proviron made my prostate/lipids

anavar over proviron though

drol and dbol are full of sides, tbol way more mild and better imo, but drol rule for size

 

[halfcenturian]

NO! In my experience the only oral that caused me any real problems was Drol. I hate that shit. Var is an awesome steroid. As is Dbol. Those two can be managed with supps... Not to worry. Tbol is virtually harmless unless you OD. In any case have your blood work done post cycle to measure your liver and lipid levels.

 

[needtogetarmy]

It really depends on how your body reacts. Some people get their levels hammered with small doses of winny and var and others are fine. If you do a search of posts covering this topic you will see that we all react differently.

IMO the best thing to do is to get PCT blood work done and see how your body reacts.

I also recommend a multi vitamin and a few other supps to help you out like fish oil, red yeast rice and policosanol. I use all of the following and have always had HDL levels in the 60's and LDL under 100. I get slight changes during my PCT blood work (winny and tbol) but it has always bounced back for me.

 

[gjohnson5]

Is the question will lipid be raised to problematic levels or is the question will they rise in any measurable amount?

The question obviously depends on the person but I would be very surprised if one went to Quest Diagnostics and got a blood test. Then did 6 weeks of var and on the last dosage their good lipids rose...

 

[artificialaspirations]

quaetion was meaning any measureable amount on the other compounds like dbol.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

Yes, they do (maybe barring replacement doses of testosterone undecanoate). How much they effect your lipids is going to depend on your own personal response, but some type of shift is virtually assured.

 

[Harleymarleybone]

I constantly hear of the damage that var can due to one's lipid values. Recently I've read of winny doing the same thing, i.e. raising the bad, lowering the good.

Question: Does Dbol, drol, turinabol, or even proviron do the same?

If so, to what extent?

Any oral worth its anabolic salt is going to knock the shit out of your HDL at thre least, and there is really nothing you can do about it, except get off. That's one reason people cycle - staying in an unhealthy cardiovascular condition longer creates greater risks.

 

[Harleymarleybone]

quaetion was meaning any measureable amount on the other compounds like dbol.

Easy to find some facts on Google:

"Dbol messes up my cholesterol bad. Last time I did a cycle with dbol, my HDL was at a "4" after 4 weeks. My doctor was freaking out saying she had never seen anything like that in her life. I told her why it was all out of whack and she punched me in my arm. LOL." http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?p=591682

 

[FRONT2BACKJACKED]

Is the question will lipid be raised to problematic levels or is the question will they rise in any measurable amount?

The question obviously depends on the person but I would be very surprised if one went to Quest Diagnostics and got a blood test. Then did 6 weeks of var and on the last dosage their good lipids rose...

good post.......

 

[halfcenturian]

HORSE SHIT!!! If you Mega dose fish oil and Krill Oil, omega 3-6-9's, Niacin, etc., etc. They can remain stable. I just had my blood work done early. 5 weeks post cycle which includedTest, Deca, Dbol and Anavar. My lipids wer perfect.
Don't make a broad, brush stroke statement like, "there is nothing you can do about it." Because I'm proof that you are wrong.

 

[gjohnson5]

Taking cholesterol lowering supps wasn't part of the question...

BUT... If you had to MEGA DOSE fish oil krill oil , Omega 3,6,9 AND niacin to to keep your ldl and hdl normal then I'd say you are a perfect example of someone who's bad lipids would rise on orals.

 

[Harleymarleybone]

HORSE SHIT!!! If you Mega dose fish oil and Krill Oil, omega 3-6-9's, Niacin, etc., etc. They can remain stable. I just had my blood work done early. 5 weeks post cycle which includedTest, Deca, Dbol and Anavar. My lipids wer perfect.
Don't make a broad, brush stroke statement like, "there is nothing you can do about it." Because I'm proof that you are wrong.

"5 weeks post cycle which includedTest, Deca, Dbol and Anavar."

Oops. Showing your lipids were normal 5 weeks post cycle, doesn't prove "they can remain stable." They weren't "stable." Take as much of that crap as you like and get your lipids checked on cycle and they will be shit, just as I said. Hence, my comment on the importance of cycling. Please try to read my posts more carefully in the future.

 

[Harleymarleybone]

Taking cholesterol lowering supps wasn't part of the question...

BUT... If you had to MEGA DOSE fish oil krill oil , Omega 3,6,9 AND niacin to to keep your ldl and hdl normal then I'd say you are a perfect example of someone who's bad lipids would rise on orals.

Here is a good reader.

 

[manboy]

I'm no vet, but my total didn't get too bad...but it's the ratio that becomes fucked. My HDL dropped to 20 and LDL up to 180 in as little as 2 weeks on winny. FYI my hdl usually ran the norm 40ish and my ldl at 70-80. I would say I'm on the extreme end of the spectrum on being affected, but I'm only 27 and always have good levels. I would say tons of omega-3 even if you aren't as sensitive as me.

 

[halfcenturian]

OK. Steroids cause Gyno! TRUE!

OOOH....You didn't mention that you need to take anti-estrogen supplements to prevent it...

Come on, man....You know what I'm saying. I don't want to debate this.

Everyone reacts differently. In my case, because I take preventative supplements, I don't have lipid or liver issues. Good night.

 

[Harleymarleybone]

OK. Steroids cause Gyno! TRUE!

OOOH....You didn't mention that you need to take anti-estrogen supplements to prevent it...

Come on, man....You know what I'm saying. I don't want to debate this.

Everyone reacts differently. In my case, because I take preventative supplements, I don't have lipid or liver issues. Good night.

Yes, you are saying your lipids can recover from the shit hole they are put into by orals and some injectables. That, of course, is no great insight. We all know that.

You indeed do have "lipid issues" when you are on - that's why you have to take the massive supplements to recover them after your cycle. During the time on cycle when your HDL is suppressed and LDL is high, that lovely plaque is forming in your arteries, and recovery of a good profile ain't gonna remove it, sorry. (Arterial plaque, btw, is the yucky stuff that broke off from Tim Russert's artery and dropped him at 58). If a person does a couple cycles a year over the years, this certainly can have a cumulative effect. Now someday a drug company, god bless them, might invent a drug that can safely move arterial plaque, and make billions of dollars. (Pfizer was hopeful about a recent candidate, but unfortunately it ended up killing more people than it helped.) But if you are really a half centurian, who knows if it will happen in your lifetime. Meanwhile, I guess people can find solace in the false security of supplements. ;-)

 

[halfcenturian]

Yes, you are saying your lipids can recover from the shit hole they are put into by orals and some injectables. That, of course, is no great insight. We all know that.

You indeed do have "lipid issues" when you are on - that's why you have to take the massive supplements to recover them after your cycle. During the time on cycle when your HDL is suppressed and LDL is high, that lovely plaque is forming in your arteries, and recovery of a good profile ain't gonna remove it, sorry. (Arterial plaque, btw, is the yucky stuff that broke off from Tim Russert's artery and dropped him at 58). If a person does a couple cycles a year over the years, this certainly can have a cumulative effect. Now someday a drug company, god bless them, might invent a drug that can safely move arterial plaque, and make billions of dollars. (Pfizer was hopeful about a recent candidate, but unfortunately it ended up killing more people than it helped.) But if you are really a half centurian, who knows if it will happen in your lifetime. Meanwhile, I guess people can find solace in the false security of supplements. ;-)

Do you have a copy of my medical Chart ??? LOL!

I'll be 52, junior... You, INDEED, are an arrogant ass. I had a heart scan, you can google it. My coronary arterties were 95% clean!
YOU may want to have a head scan.
I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years. My Dr. says my cardiovascular system, and lipid panels, are like that of a healthy 30 year old.

So people, take solace in knowing not to listen to people who don't know what they are talking about. And presume to know YOUR medical background. Do your own homework and take the necessary precautions to avoid liver and lipid issues.

 

[Burpees]

Why even consider orals?

 

[gjohnson5]

Did you have the heart scan while on?
Did you have the lipid panel test while on?
Were you on all those fish oils and such before you took the test?

You need to relax. Noone is callinng you a liar, we're just saying that if you did the tests while on without the cholesterol support you probably would have had low hdl high ldl high total cholesterol and liver enzyme elevation.

Do you have a copy of my medical Chart ??? LOL!

I'll be 52, junior... You, INDEED, are an arrogant ass. I had a heart scan, you can google it. My coronary arterties were 95% clean!
YOU may want to have a head scan.
I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years. My Dr. says my cardiovascular system, and lipid panels, are like that of a healthy 30 year old.

So people, take solace in knowing not to listen to people who don't know what they are talking about. And presume to know YOUR medical background. Do your own homework and take the necessary precautions to avoid liver and lipid issues.

 

[searay]

HORSE SHIT!!! If you Mega dose fish oil and Krill Oil, omega 3-6-9's, Niacin, etc., etc. They can remain stable. I just had my blood work done early. 5 weeks post cycle which includedTest, Deca, Dbol and Anavar. My lipids wer perfect.
Don't make a broad, brush stroke statement like, "there is nothing you can do about it." Because I'm proof that you are wrong.

the question is does it effect levels WHILE ON not 5 weeks post cycle which gave you plenty of time to get your levels back to normal. have your levels tested at the end of the 5th week and then tell us they were normal....NOT. well maybe if you did 5-10mgs day with a bottle of omega's. ANYONE who does a cycle of orals is gonna have there hdl/ldl levels effected while ON CYCLE. THE END.............

 

[Burpees]

Do you have a copy of my medical Chart ??? LOL!

I'll be 52, junior... You, INDEED, are an arrogant ass. I had a heart scan, you can google it. My coronary arterties were 95% clean!
YOU may want to have a head scan.
I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years. My Dr. says my cardiovascular system, and lipid panels, are like that of a healthy 30 year old.

So people, take solace in knowing not to listen to people who don't know what they are talking about. And presume to know YOUR medical background. Do your own homework and take the necessary precautions to avoid liver and lipid issues.

I'd like to know what your diet consists of, also if you include any cardio in your lifestyle? Seriously... Results like that are envious, shit I'm 26 and my Dr says i'm healthy as an ox and I know my arteries are more clogged than 5%..

 

[Harleymarleybone]

Do you have a copy of my medical Chart ??? LOL!

I'll be 52, junior... You, INDEED, are an arrogant ass. I had a heart scan, you can google it. My coronary arterties were 95% clean!
YOU may want to have a head scan.
I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years. My Dr. says my cardiovascular system, and lipid panels, are like that of a healthy 30 year old.

So people, take solace in knowing not to listen to people who don't know what they are talking about. And presume to know YOUR medical background. Do your own homework and take the necessary precautions to avoid liver and lipid issues.

It looks like you did not take my prior advice to be a better reader. In my last post I made two primary claims:

1) A test, deca, dbol, anavar cycle put your lipids in the shit hole while you were on cycle.

2) Doing a couple cycles a year over many years has a cumulative effect in plaque formation, since low HDL and high LDL on cycle, contribute to plaque growth.

Nothing you have said contradicts 1.

Nothing you have said contradicts 2. The fact that you have a clean cardiovascular bill of health, says nothing, without a run down on your AAS history, and frankly whatever you now claim about that would be dubious given the ax you apparently want to grind here.

Was the fish oil you have been taking from Red Herrings? - because that is all you have offered so far.

You say I can google your heart scan? Where is it? Do I google halfcenturion and heart scan? Tried it, nothing comes up. Can I google your AAS history, too?

BTW, not that it matters, since apparently age does not guarantee wisdom, but I am 51, you old fugger.

 

[gjohnson5]

I like the fire though.
halfcenturian got riled up

lololol

 

[Harleymarleybone]

I like the fire though.
halfcenturian got riled up

lololol

Maybe he better get a second opinion on his heart. Seems like he has hypertension, at least.

 

[gjohnson5]

I'm not going to say that.
Probably why he got mad. I don't know what his health situation is like.

Maybe he better get a second opinion on his heart. Seems like he has hypertension, at least.

 

[centy]

The question obviously depends on the person but I would be very surprised if one went to Quest Diagnostics and got a blood test. Then did 6 weeks of var and on the last dosage their good lipids rose...

I did just that.

6 weeks of Anavar (HG) @ 50 milligrams / day.

Diet is admirable - well balanced, plenty of macronutrients, supps, etc etc.

Before Var:

HDL: 60
LDL: 98


After Var:

HDL: Less than 15
LDL: 115

 

[halfcenturian]

Maybe he better get a second opinion on his heart. Seems like he has hypertension, at least.

*************************************************

Sorry boys, I just got back from a hike up the Flatirons...Beautiful day!

You can google, The Flatirons, Boulder, CO.

You can google my dick, too! You still talkin' smack, nigga?

LOL ! My BP was 134/78... I am not the least bit mad, dog

But I'm done with this thread, with YOU, and your boy, SHAFT too. Peace!

 

[Harleymarleybone]

*************************************************

Sorry boys, I just got back from a hike up the Flatirons...Beautiful day!

You can google, The Flatirons, Boulder, CO.

You can google my dick, too! You still talkin' smack, nigga?

LOL ! My BP was 134/78... I am not the least bit mad, dog

But I'm done with this thread, with YOU, and your boy, SHAFT too. Peace!

In other words, you say you have evidence for your claims but don't provide any when pressed. Never underestimate the power of denial.

 

[artificialaspirations]

Good responses intermixed the bickering. Thank you.

My main question regards if all orals impact lipids while on cycle and form that nasty plaque. I ask because in terms of side-effects I believe the impact on lipds and cardiovascular health the number one concern. Damage to the endocrine system a close second.

 

[dal022]

I came off winny in april got tested this month my good cholestrol was 17 and bad was ok but total was terriable then i said screw it and kicked off a new cycle with dbol got tested mid dbol and my lipids are still screwed total is 296 good is 14 so imo yes orals most of them will kill your lipids

 

[Harleymarleybone]

Good responses intermixed the bickering. Thank you.

My main question regards if all orals impact lipids while on cycle and form that nasty plaque. I ask because in terms of side-effects I believe the impact on lipds and cardiovascular health the number one concern. Damage to the endocrine system a close second.

Yes, all orals that are sufficiently anabolic will kill your lipids on cycle. I don't know about proviron, but proviron is not that anabolic. A few cycles are not going to hurt you much long run, but the risks increase the more you do.

Injectibles are in general easier on your health, though they add the risk of injection infections - though I have never had this issue after 5 cycles.