Dick still doesnt work after Derm sustain

[nab12]

I was on a 800mg week test e cycle for 20 weeks...after that 20 weeks I went down to 200 mgs a week for 3 weeks....and then stopped all test.....waited 2 weeks and then started derma sustain...been doing the sustain for abotu 3 weeks and my dick still only works about 75% of the time its suppose to...and when it does its not all the way hard!

I just got my HCG in...have clomid...and have proviron all on hand....also have cialis...but even that isnt working except maybe 50% of the time!

So what do you guys recommend?

As far as the Sustain...its not brought my dick back like it is suppose to...after the long cycle...im down about 6lbs after about 5 weeks of being off...strength is a little down as well..but not bad....but I'm interested to see how much I'll loose after the sustain and regular derma....also...the derma hasnt really gave my any type of energy boost...ive been pretty tired and just have to DRAG myself to the gym!

Thanks for those of you about to help me out

 

[str8cubano]

I'm sorry, maybe you can educate me a little. What is Sustain and derma again?

 

[Donnie Darko]

Give HARD ON a try at www.proteabody.com

It might help and it would be worth a try.

 

[galaxy]

How did you use the hcg and clomid? I would do 3 weeks of hcg with tamoxifen and then an additional 3 weeks of clomid after that. Also how old are you? Go get some blood work done?

 

[perryscoon]

Sounds like your test levels are low as hell. After a cycle like that you need to take clomid and nolvadex. derma alone, will not cut it.

 

[rudy76]

If yo were relying on Derma Sustain alone for recovery of a 20 weeker that's your first mistake. A cycle that long is hard to recover from and you should have been running H.CG the entire time and started Nolva and Clomid 2 weeks after last pin.

I would say you need 1000iu's of H.CG every 4 days for a month and 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolva for 6-8 weeks. Don't use the proviron - it will make things worse - it's a steroid and shouldn't be used for P.CT.

I'm sure needto can help you if you PM him.

 

[nab12]

If yo were relying on Derma Sustain alone for recovery of a 20 weeker that's your first mistake. A cycle that long is hard to recover from and you should have been running H.CG the entire time and started Nolva and Clomid 2 weeks after last pin.

I would say you need 1000iu's of H.CG every 4 days for a month and 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolva for 6-8 weeks. Don't use the proviron - it will make things worse - it's a steroid and shouldn't be used for P.CT.

I'm sure needto can help you if you PM him.

Thanks for the advice so far! Would you recommed running the Clomid at the same time as the HC.G?

 

[Primordial Performance]

I was on a 800mg week test e cycle for 20 weeks...after that 20 weeks I went down to 200 mgs a week for 3 weeks....and then stopped all test.....waited 2 weeks and then started derma sustain...been doing the sustain for abotu 3 weeks and my dick still only works about 75% of the time its suppose to...and when it does its not all the way hard!

I just got my HCG in...have clomid...and have proviron all on hand....also have cialis...but even that isnt working except maybe 50% of the time!

So what do you guys recommend?

As far as the Sustain...its not brought my dick back like it is suppose to...after the long cycle...im down about 6lbs after about 5 weeks of being off...strength is a little down as well..but not bad....but I'm interested to see how much I'll loose after the sustain and regular derma....also...the derma hasnt really gave my any type of energy boost...ive been pretty tired and just have to DRAG myself to the gym!

Thanks for those of you about to help me out

Have you been using clomid with the Sustain? Did you run any hCG during the cycle?

Also, are you using the Sustain or Dermacrine?

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

First off, 3 weeks of P C T, with *any* type of ancillary, is not enough time to recover... even after a 10-week cycle.... considering that you ran a 20-weeker, and only ran Sustain for P C T and you're at 75% recovery, I'd say that's pretty damn good!

Next time, do yourself a favor and run the H C G throughout the cycle... it will make recovery and P C T that much easier and simpler.... as for now, continue with the Sustain... 4-6 weeks total.... if your testicles haven't recovered yet, try adding H C G at 500iu ED for 10 days... a few days after that, consider throwing in some clo-mid at 25mg ED (along with the Sustain) for the remainder of your P C T... I'd say you're only about half-way through P C T right now, so be patient.... Sustain didn't fail you.

 

[nab12]

Have you been using clomid with the Sustain? Did you run any hCG during the cycle?

Also, are you using the Sustain or Dermacrine?

-Pp

I have not ran anything other than the sustain alpha....ive got about another week of that followed by the regular dermacrine

I've currently got HCg and clomid on hand...PP how would you reccomend i add then in right now to have a more successful P.CT?

 

[Primordial Performance]

Hold the regular Dermacrine for now.

If you didn’t run any hCG on cycle you should start some now. Your going to be a bit desensitized so you will need to go heavy on the hCG at 1000iu 2x a week until your amp is gone. (assuming you only have a 5000iu AMP) Keep running the Sustain, and start the clomid at 25mg/day for 6 weeks.

You really can’t go 20 weeks without running hCG. Your going to be in for a roller coaster for the next several months. Hold in there… and make sure you keep your protein intake high for testicular development.

You’re probably done spending money on PCT, but EndoAmp/Toco-8 would be a great combo for increasing your testicular sensitivity. This is vitally important for maintaining high T. (Research “increasing insulin sensitivity” too, this will also help your testicular sensitivity)

-Pp

 

[nab12]

so start the HCg and the Clomid immediatly?

 

[Primordial Performance]

so start the HCg and the Clomid immediatly?

Yes.

Next time run hCG during the cycle bro.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

Sounds like your test levels are low as hell. After a cycle like that you need to take clomid and nolvadex. derma alone, will not cut it.

For god sake you think his dick would be working any better if he used clomid after that long of a cycle.. NO!!!!!!!! it would not.


You should have ran hcg threw out cycle then sustain alpha after. Any one that tells you clomid alone would have don it is dead wrong. I repeat dead wrong.

 

[needtogetaas]

How did you use the hcg and clomid? I would do 3 weeks of hcg with tamoxifen and then an additional 3 weeks of clomid after that. Also how old are you? Go get some blood work done?

How did he use it???? He did not use it at all thats how lol.

 

[needtogetaas]

Have you been using clomid with the Sustain? Did you run any hCG during the cycle?

Also, are you using the Sustain or Dermacrine?

-Pp

Sounds to me like he used nothing but derma sustain after a 20 weeks cycle. Hell you could have used clomid and nolva after that cycle and its very likely they would not have don the trick. Prob would have been even worce on the sex drive...

Go ahead and try using just clomid and nolva now. Tell me how your sex drive is after that lmao.

 

[nab12]

My apologies PP...I'm actually running the reg. dermacrine now...and was planning to follow up with the Sustain....
would your suggestion on what to do now change with this correct info?

Needto...as far as your condesending response....thanks for the help...or lack of it

 

[Primordial Performance]

My apologies PP...I'm actually running the reg. dermacrine now...and was planning to follow up with the Sustain....
would your suggestion on what to do now change with this correct info?

Needto...as far as your condesending response....thanks for the help...or lack of it

Yeah, stop the Dermacrine and start the protocol I gave above.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

My apologies PP...I'm actually running the reg. dermacrine now...and was planning to follow up with the Sustain....
would your suggestion on what to do now change with this correct info?

Needto...as far as your condesending response....thanks for the help...or lack of it

Well I think I helped. I told you what needed to be said. You needed hcg on this cycle bro. The thread title was a bit misleading so some one needed to clear it up.

 

[nab12]

When would you reccomend going back on the dermacrine?

I've probably got about 1 week of the regular left and a full bottle of the sustain.

 

[Primordial Performance]

When would you reccomend going back on the dermacrine?

I've probably got about 1 week of the regular left and a full bottle of the sustain.

So you havnt ran the Sustain yet? You should get on that ASAP, and get on the protocol I outlined above.

I would hold off on running the Dermacrine for atleast a few months or untill your ready for another cycle.

-Pp

 

[HAYEZ]

still confused why people are ignoring standard pct therapy. I'm sure some of these OTC supps work but wouldn't it be best as a add on to normal pct? Seems hitting it from every angle instead of relying on 1 thing to do the job isnt a very good idea

 

[needtogetaas]

still confused why people are ignoring standard pct therapy. I'm sure some of these OTC supps work but wouldn't it be best as a add on to normal pct? Seems hitting it from every angle instead of relying on 1 thing to do the job isnt a very good idea

So what are you saying would have worked?

 

[tical]

bro, quit fucking around and get some bloodwork done so you can tackle this accordingly

you can't "wing" this stuff (trust me I was in the same situation)

i'm willing to bet you're very shutdown and have low total & free test, high estrogen & very low lh/fsh

 

[tical]

For a very good idea of whats screwing your wang up, go to quest & get:

Total / Free (Bioavailable) Testosterone
SHBG
Estradiol ("ultrasensative" assay only) #30289
LH
FSH

 

[pappad]

HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG HCG

And don't touch the stuff again until you know what you are doing.

 

[HAYEZ]

So what are you saying would have worked?

I would of done HCG 500iue3d throughout cycle. Last few daysof HCG before starting pxt would of done 500iu HCG for4-5 days. 2 days after last shot start nolva . Want to use the derma stuff go ahead but I would use it together not by itself. HCG throughout and nolva at end for 3-4 weeks has always worked for me and everyone I know

 

[Nelson Montana]

What would have worked is what always works, and that's not to make mistakes.

THE PCT RULES.

Shorten the cycle. 8 weeks is best. No more than 12 max.

Use dexx or a-san throughout and afterward.

Use HCG to jump start the testes.

THEN, use UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE, and Sustain.

EVERYONE who has done this has recovered perfectly (without clomid or nolva) and many have had the blood work to prove it.

WHAT'S THE BIG FUCKING MYSTERY FOLKS?

Break these rules and you'll lose. Do it right, and you'll be alright. You can't keep fucking up and then blaming shit for not working.

 

[ceo]

What would have worked is what always works, and that's not to make mistakes.

THE PCT RULES.

Shorten the cycle. 8 weeks is best. No more than 12 max.

Use dexx or a-san throughout and afterward.

Use HCG to jump start the testes.

THEN, use UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE, and Sustain.

EVERYONE who has done this has recovered perfectly (without clomid or nolva) and many have had the blood work to prove it.

WHAT'S THE BIG FUCKING MYSTERY FOLKS?

Break these rules and you'll lose. Do it right, and you'll be alright. You can't keep fucking up and then blaming shit for not working.

Wait...what "always" works? Yeah, but Derma, Post cycle, Unleashed haven't been around very long. So how can you say "always"? "Always" used to be hcg, nolva, clomid. I don't know if these OTC things work. I guess they do if people have blood tests to prove it, but to say "always"? LOL...come on.

Tell it like it is. Don't make it sound like people are fools not to know this OTC stuff works because hcg, clomid, nolva have been preached for years, and years before derma, post cycle, and unleashed were even thought of.

Oh, and those billion dollar R&D budget big pharma drugs...they still work.

 

[searay]

after reading up on the info provided on protien factory website it seems that the fedogia aggresive would be an excellent pct product as well. or is it more like derma ?

 

[needtogetaas]

I would of done HCG 500iue3d throughout cycle. Last few daysof HCG before starting pxt would of done 500iu HCG for4-5 days. 2 days after last shot start nolva . Want to use the derma stuff go ahead but I would use it together not by itself. HCG throughout and nolva at end for 3-4 weeks has always worked for me and everyone I know

So the point still remains hcg threw out the cycle is what he was missing.

 

[needtogetaas]

Wait...what "always" works? Yeah, but Derma, Post cycle, Unleashed haven't been around very long. So how can you say "always"? "Always" used to be hcg, nolva, clomid. I don't know if these OTC things work. I guess they do if people have blood tests to prove it, but to say "always"? LOL...come on.

Tell it like it is. Don't make it sound like people are fools not to know this OTC stuff works because hcg, clomid, nolva have been preached for years, and years before derma, post cycle, and unleashed were even thought of.

Oh, and those billion dollar R&D budget big pharma drugs...they still work.

I love how people will find a thread where sustain did not work (even though hcg was not used and it should have been) and they jump all over it..


Any one want to see how many threads I can pull up where people have said clomid and or nolva alone did not work for them. Lets take bets on how many I can find. Any takers.

 

[ceo]

I love how people will find a thread where sustain did not work (even though hcg was not used and it should have been) and they jump all over it..


Any one want to see how many threads I can pull up where people have said clomid and or nolva alone did not work for them. Lets take bets on how many I can find. Any takers.

mother fucker did you READ what I wrote? I didn't say derma/unleashed/post cycle didn't work. I can only assume they do based on the majority of responses on this board and Nelson's claim of blood tests (I haven't seen them but I assume he's telling the truth).

My point was that his post made it sound like that combo was the only thing that "always" works. Like you're stupid if you don't know this. Like this has been the PCT regime forever and ever.

Which you know damn well is not so. HCG/nolva/clomid have been around for ages longer than derma/unleased/post cycle. You can't possibly deny that can you?

That's all I was saying. God damn. Your spelling has improved but your comprehension seems to have gone to shit. Quit being so blinded by that defensive attitude!

*hugs it out*

 

[needtogetaas]

mother fucker did you READ what I wrote? I didn't say derma/unleashed/post cycle didn't work. I can only assume they do based on the majority of responses on this board and Nelson's claim of blood tests (I haven't seen them but I assume he's telling the truth).

My point was that his post made it sound like that combo was the only thing that "always" works. Like you're stupid if you don't know this. Like this has been the PCT regime forever and ever.

Which you know damn well is not so. HCG/nolva/clomid have been around for ages longer than derma/unleased/post cycle. You can't possibly deny that can you?

That's all I was saying. God damn. Your spelling has improved but your comprehension seems to have gone to shit. Quit being so blinded by that defensive attitude!

*hugs it out*

Well well poo to you. No I get what you are saying.. Most often people make the switch to sustain or some of the other otc supps because they have had bad sides with clomid or nolva (which you can't say lot of people have not) or they make the switch just to try it out. Often they find they feel a whole lot better during pct when using sustain or other oct supps. Still others like to use both and others stick to what they have been doing. Its all good.

 

[nab12]

Well like PP recommended I stopped all of the derma completly and started the HCG at 1500 a week for 3 weeks and 100 mg clomid a day for 3 weeks and I feel back to normal...my sex drive is back and my cock is working as good as ever...i'll continue the clomid at 50 mgs a day for another 2 weeks. I'll definatly use this protocol as my next pct

Since Ive got a full bottle of derma sustain left i'll start using it after the clomid for a month and then jump on another cycle with a better plenned PCT

 

[str8cubano]

Well like PP recommended I stopped all of the derma completly and started the HCG at 1500 a week for 3 weeks and 100 mg clomid a day for 3 weeks and I feel back to normal...my sex drive is back and my cock is working as good as ever...i'll continue the clomid at 50 mgs a day for another 2 weeks. I'll definatly use this protocol as my next pct

Since Ive got a full bottle of derma sustain left i'll start using it after the clomid for a month and then jump on another cycle with a better plenned PCT

Just curious how did you measure 1500 IU of HCG a week? Did you use a 10ml bottle of bateriostic water, or just left the HCG in the fridge with sirynge?

 

[alexl2]

I think ill stick with HCG, clomid, and nolvadex.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I think ill stick with HCG, clomid, and nolvadex.

Go with what works. But there are rebound effects to those drugs and your body syill has to take over by itself at some point. That's where the supps can really help.

 

[galaxy]

Clomid, nolvadex and hcg are all prescribed for after a steroid regimen if natural test recovery is needed. SO thats at least 3 drugs I know of. I think cause they alls stimulate the hypothalmus the leydig cells and all that to start working. Unless of course the Medical Literature is wrong? And maybe it is, but I'll take my chances.

I do think DHEA has its place in making one feel better PCT however so the Dermacrine isnt a bad idea.

But again Post cycle you are gonna feel like shit to begin with. You go into a state of catabolism, hormones in flux, decreased energy and of course you feel like shit cus you aint getting 4 bills on the bench anymore. It happens.

And then that all gets thrown out when you get these freaks the recover just fine without nothing. From what ive seen most of them are powerlifters who just eat and sleep so that to me would be the KEY.

Theres so many variables your never gonna pin point one thing. I dont know how all these cycles went or ended. For all we know people complaining of crashing were doing 500mgs a week of say test and come the last week decided to just shoot a gram or two for shits and giggles and whalla.......they crash.

And with that being said I still believe in tapering the doses down and more than a few Drs would even tell you that. No one is gonna tell you to stop cold turkey. Aside from an internet guru who says its fine to run 3gs straight through and not to taper down.

And maybe these people complaining are slackers? I cant imagine everyone on this board is eating clean, resting 10hrs a nite and training on point. Although you would think it from the posts, but fact is they aint but maybe 3%?

Some people just suffer from stress and anxiety more than others, thus will suffer from cortisol-induced catabolism more than others.

 

[xrsist]

never rely on a otc only pct

 

[needtogetaas]

never rely on a otc only pct

Thats so not true bro. Man people have and had great recovery.

 

[xrsist]

Thats so not true bro. Man people have and had great recovery.

yer using hcg and adex or aroma, they are not otc supps

 

[needtogetaas]

yer using hcg and adex or aroma, they are not otc supps

I have seen many people just use otc and nothing else on shorter cycles. Once you start getting into 10 weeks or more. Then hcg gets more and more needed.
I see your point though.

 

[nab12]

Just curious how did you measure 1500 IU of HCG a week? Did you use a 10ml bottle of bateriostic water, or just left the HCG in the fridge with sirynge?

Left it in the fridge with a syringe

 

[Nelson Montana]

Clomid, nolvadex and hcg are all prescribed for after a steroid regimen if natural test recovery is needed. SO thats at least 3 drugs I know of.

..................................

NOT REALLY. NONE OF THOSE DRUGS WERE DESIGNED FOR THAT PURPOSE. SOME PEOPLE RESPOND TO CLOMID, MANY DO NOT. NOLVA IS ONLY PRESCRIBED FOR GYNO. HCG WILL NOT RESTORE THE HPTA, IT JUST GIVES IT BOOST UNTIL YOUR BODY TAKES OVER.

....................................................



I think cause they alls stimulate the hypothalmus the leydig cells and all that to start working. Unless of course the Medical Literature is wrong? And maybe it is, but I'll take my chances.

.............................................................

IT'S NOT QUITE THAT SIMPLE. SOMETHING CAN START WORKING BUT YOU'LL NEED TO CONTINUE THE DRUG TO CONTINUE GETTING THE EFFECTS. THAT'S WHERE THINGS GET TRICKY.

...............................................

I do think DHEA has its place in making one feel better PCT however so the Dermacrine isnt a bad idea.

But again Post cycle you are gonna feel like shit to begin with.

............................................

YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVEN'T READ THE THREADS FROM THE PEOPLE WHO USED THE PROGRAM I RECOMMEND.

............................................


You go into a state of catabolism, hormones in flux, decreased energy and of course you feel like shit cus you aint getting 4 bills on the bench anymore. It happens.

............................

IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY BOTHER WITH PCT? PCT IS DESIGNED TO PREVENT THAT.


.............................................
Theres so many variables your never gonna pin point one thing. I dont know how all these cycles went or ended. For all we know people complaining of crashing were doing 500mgs a week of say test and come the last week decided to just shoot a gram or two for shits and giggles and whalla.......they crash.

And with that being said I still believe in tapering the doses down and more than a few Drs would even tell you that. No one is gonna tell you to stop cold turkey. Aside from an internet guru who says its fine to run 3gs straight through and not to taper down.

.....................................

I AGREE WITH YOU THERE.

..............................

And maybe these people complaining are slackers? I cant imagine everyone on this board is eating clean, resting 10hrs a nite and training on point. Although you would think it from the posts, but fact is they aint but maybe 3%?

Some people just suffer from stress and anxiety more than others, thus will suffer from cortisol-induced catabolism more than others.

..

 

[galaxy]

yes really, they are prescribed for that. What is "not really" mean?They are or they arent. Cant have it both ways. And again, they are prescribed just for that.

Were they intended for that? Im sure not. Many meds are developed and find different uses then originally intended. Also, ever heard of oft prescribed.

Complain about fatigue enough and a Doc may prescribe adderall. Is that the original intention? Of course not.

And i didnt say not to bother with PCT. I said we just try to the best we can with are PCT to limit/lessen the crash. Im just explaining what happens post cycle with the catabolism thing.

And I was being vague with the medical literature. Kinda like how steroids dont even work according to the journals. I thought youd pick up on that one of all people? Im very dissappointed.

And no I havent read any of your threads.

So, do your supplements restore HPTA unlike the drugs listed above?

 

[perryscoon]

yes really, they are prescribed for that. What is "not really" mean?They are or they arent. Cant have it both ways. And again, they are prescribed just for that.

Were they intended for that? Im sure not. Many meds are developed and find different uses then originally intended. Also, ever heard of oft prescribed.

Complain about fatigue enough and a Doc may prescribe adderall. Is that the original intention? Of course not.

And i didnt say not to bother with PCT. I said we just try to the best we can with are PCT to limit/lessen the crash. Im just explaining what happens post cycle with the catabolism thing.

And I was being vague with the medical literature. Kinda like how steroids dont even work according to the journals. I thought youd pick up on that one of all people? Im very dissappointed.

And no I havent read any of your threads.

So, do your supplements restore HPTA unlike the drugs listed above?

PCT is always a gamble. Some can recover doing no PCT at all(rare) and some can take a fuckload of clomid, nolvadex, and HCG and never recover.

 

[Nelson Montana]

yes really, they are prescribed for that. What is "not really" mean?They are or they arent. Cant have it both ways. And again, they are prescribed just for that.

..............................................





You're confusing the issue bro. HCG and Clomid are fertility drugs designed for women. It is not common practice for doctor to prescribe HCG for hypogonadism. Clomid was found to induce a temporary increase in T in SOME men, and for that reason it's a "last resort" drug that has pretty much been abandoned by the medical community because of it's negative sides. Nolvadex IS NOT prescribed for PCT (unless you're talking about one of those online clinics).




...............................................................................

Were they intended for that? Im sure not. Many meds are developed and find different uses then originally intended. Also, ever heard of oft prescribed.Complain about fatigue enough and a Doc may prescribe adderall. Is that the original intention? Of course not.
.......................




Well, it's an aphetamine so it was designed to stimulate. And BTW, it too has bad side effects and potential rebound and worsening of symptoms , just like clomid and nolva. So again, drugs aren't always the answer.




.........................
And i didnt say not to bother with PCT. I said we just try to the best we can with are PCT to limit/lessen the crash. Im just explaining what happens post cycle with the catabolism thing.
..........................................



You missed my point. I said if you're going to suffer the symptoms, as you suggested, why bother with it? It SHOULD PREVENT those synmptoms. if you're getting them, the PCT isn;t working too well, is it?



..................................

And I was being vague with the medical literature. Kinda like how steroids dont even work according to the journals. I thought youd pick up on that one of all people? Im very dissappointed.
....................................................................



I can't be responsible for your disappointments bro.



............................................

And no I havent read any of your threads.

So, do your supplements restore HPTA unlike the drugs listed above?
.........................................



Yes -- proven by blood tests and empirical evidence. The reason being, they help the body recover, which is the whole idea. Drugs just mask the symptoms. I still recommend a little HCG to get things going but the dosages I advocate are far lower than are usually used. A-dex is good to contol some estro. Other than that, I'd take natural substances over clomid and nolva any day of the week.



..........................................

..

 

[DBBT]

I was on a 800mg week test e cycle for 20 weeks...after that 20 weeks I went down to 200 mgs a week for 3 weeks....and then stopped all test.....waited 2 weeks and then started derma sustain...been doing the sustain for abotu 3 weeks and my dick still only works about 75% of the time its suppose to...and when it does its not all the way hard!

I just got my HCG in...have clomid...and have proviron all on hand....also have cialis...but even that isnt working except maybe 50% of the time!

So what do you guys recommend?

As far as the Sustain...its not brought my dick back like it is suppose to...after the long cycle...im down about 6lbs after about 5 weeks of being off...strength is a little down as well..but not bad....but I'm interested to see how much I'll loose after the sustain and regular derma....also...the derma hasnt really gave my any type of energy boost...ive been pretty tired and just have to DRAG myself to the gym!

Thanks for those of you about to help me out

20 weeks is an f'ng long time at that dose, first of all. I've had derma give me recovery from 12 week cyc's but nothing more than that. And I was also using hcg clomid and proviron. I never rely on just one product, otc or drug. You have to hit it from every angle you can. The otc products may have their place, for short mild cycles. But when you're messing around with high dosages for long extended periods of time you really have no one to blame but yourself if you don't recover fully, ever. Take hcg during the cycle. Take some clomid during the cycle. People do it.

 

[samoth]

To the OP: did you do the math and figure out how much drug is left in your system after 20 weeks of those doses of long-chain esters? I have a feeling the 3 week "taper" plus two weeks off might not have lowered your exogeneous test levels enough for PCT supplements to really do anything.

 

[galaxy]

This was a very interesting thread, but I will be exiting it now.

 

[Mavafanculo]

After Needto and I spend months getting rid of the flaming on this board, I'm surprised at some people in this thread.

If you cant make your point without launching a first-strike personal attack, maybe you dont have a point.

It stops now.

 

[needtogetaas]

we "needto" not attack even when being attacked. Personal insults of any kind from any person will not be tolerated. Last warning to all.

 

[digger]

Guys! You are all entitled to your opinions but the point is to generate helpful information, not to score points on each other. You want to talk about products and biochemistry, that would be excellent. You want to measure each other's dicks, take it to Between the Sheets.

Mava, Needto -- I do not want to give ceo a timeout merely for expressing himself forcefully -- but if he starts throwing mud again, he's all yours... and NELSON is all mine.

We now return to the original thread, already in progress.

 

[needtogetaas]

Guys! You are all entitled to your opinions but the point is to generate helpful information, not to score points on each other. You want to talk about products and biochemistry, that would be excellent. You want to measure each other's dicks, take it to Between the Sheets.

Mava, Needto -- I do not want to give ceo a timeout merely for expressing himself forcefully -- but if he starts throwing mud again, he's all yours.

We now return to the original thread, already in progress.

so open it? because its still closed lol.

 

[digger]

D'oh!

 

[ceo]

Needto, mava and digger: I thought I edited my (now deleted) post in time, but apparently not. As for the mud throwing, well...that won't happen from me again, even if I am attacked first. If you still want to clean up the rest of the "mud throwing" then you'd better edit or delete post 37 too.

 

[needtogetaas]

Needto, mava and digger: I thought I edited my (now deleted) post in time, but apparently not. As for the mud throwing, well...that won't happen from me again, even if I am attacked first. If you still want to clean up the rest of the "mud throwing" then you'd better edit or delete post 37 too.

Got it and thank you for being respectful.