Dermacrine Info thread

[Anthony Roberts]

Ok...I didn't like the direction the other Dermacrine thread was going....I feel like there wasn't enough information about the actual product and too much bickering. So...since I was interested enough in the product to read through the other thread, I contacted Primordial Performance (on the phone) and asked for some information on the product. After that, I received an e-mail with product information, and I think it's important to share that info here, so people can get acquainted with the product and the new sponsor and learn about the product. Here's the information I received via e-mail from the manufacturer (*contains information about people who tried it as well as references and such concerning the ingredients...as well as the logic going into th product formulation):


On Dec. 21 a 44 year old non-steroid using man had his hormone levels analyzed via saliva.(test 1) His DHEA’s, testosterone and estrogens were all in the very low sub-physiological range. In this case, the man would not have benefited from simple AI treatment, due to the fact that his estrogen levels where already below normal range.

He began Dermacrine treatment the following day using 30-35 spray pumps everyday for 25 days.

While using Dermacrine his DHEA levels rose from 1.2 pg/ml -23 pg/ml. This was over a 2200% increase in DHEA levels. Free testosterone levels rose from 50pg/ml up to 137pg/ml. This was over a 150% increase in testosterone. Estrogens (E1,E2) increased to a negligible degree, and stayed within normal range.(test 1)

After Dermacrine treatment stopped on the 15th of January we tested his levels again on the 18st. His levels of DHEA and testosterone dropped below baseline, showing a 3-4 day clearance of Dermacrine from the system. Less than 2 weeks later we tested his levels again to see if they returned.(test 2) His DHEA levels increased from 1000% and testosterone levels increased about 10% above baseline, showing a strong return of hormone levels, without further treatment. We hypothesize the future tests will show an even higher testosterone level.

What we can interpret from these results is that Dermacrine elicits a positive effect on the HTPA, leading to an up-regulation of hormone production. This effect has been noted before in other studies with topical DHEA. In the below study, the authors proposed that the topical treatment of DHEA initiated adrenarche, known as a surge in hormone levels in response to super-physiological DHEA levels similar to puberty. Interestingly, this effect is not a result of the DHEA converting to further hormones, but an indirect effect that DHEA has on the synthesis of cholesterol > hormones. In other words, DHEA enhances the production of itself.

Effects of transdermal application of DHEA on the levels of steroids, gonadotropins and lipids in men.
J Sulcova, M Hill, R Hampl, Z Masek, A Novacek, R Ceska, and L Starka
Physiol Res, Jan 2000; 49(6): 685-93.

Additionally, we hypothesize that part of the benefits seen with Dermacrine are a result of the aromatase inhibitors included in the formula such as resveratrol, 7,8 benzoflavone and chrysin. The research shows that the ingredients in the Phyto-AI blend enhance fertility, by eliciting a positive response from the hypothalamus, pituitary, testicular axis (HPTA). Meaning, the Phyto-AI blend will increase lutienizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone release (FSH) release from the pituitary. As most of you know, these are the hormones sent from the brain that trigger testosterone production from the testis. This effect seems to be caused by the Phyto-AI’s antagonistic interaction with the estrogen receptor similar to the action of SERMs such as clomid & nolvadex but without the toxic side-effects.

Inhibition of human estrogen synthetase (aromatase) by flavones JT Kellis, Jr and LE Vickery Science, Sep 1984; 225: 1032 - 1034.

trans-Resveratrol, a Natural Antioxidant from Grapes, Increases Sperm Output in Healthy Rats M. Emília Juan, Eulalia González-Pons, Thais Munuera, Joan Ballester, Joan E. Rodríguez-Gil, and Joana M. Planas J. Nutr., Apr 2005; 135: 757 - 760

Prevention of chronic alcohol and nicotine-induced azospermia, sterility and decreased libido, by a novel tri-substituted benzoflavone moiety from Passiflora incarnata Linneaus in healthy male rats. K Dhawan and A Sharma Life Sci, Nov 2002; 71(26): 3059-69.

These are the proposed mechanisms partly explaining why we believe Dermacrine will function as a strong PCT supplement, whether used with a SERM or not.

-Pp

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Good info. Great products.




-BRR

 

[Anthony Roberts]

I'm actually considering buying some of their saliva testing kits to get some tests I want done...

Also as an amateur transdermal brewer, I might see about the cost for them to brew up some stuff for me instead of having to do it myself every time one of my pre-contest people need something...

 

[Primordial Performance]

I'm actually considering buying some of their saliva testing kits to get some tests I want done...

Also as an amateur transdermal brewer, I might see about the cost for them to brew up some stuff for me instead of having to do it myself every time one of my pre-contest people need something...

To all home-brewers, here is a link to info on the empty topical solution -

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532587

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

good read.

 

[OMEGA]

after PCT or OFF cycle it does not get much better then this

for the natural or athlete and other wise.

 

[D_Mac]

So I have been reading these Dermacrine threads. I know it is being sold as a PCT product, and I remember one of the threads saying it will raise testosterone in an older men.

My question is;

Is this stuff supposed to raise testosterone in a healthy male who has normal hormone levels? Will this be an effective stand alone testosterone booster for healthy men or just for older men/ men with suppressed hormone levels? If so, have you done any tests on this or do you plan to?

Also what kind of side/ after effects will Dermacrine have, will it leave you suppressed after a cycle. I am thinking about trying it out as a supplement, I haven’t been on any juice for about a year and I would love to find something that will give me some test boost without the atrophy/ risks, but was unclear if it give me a boost or just get me to normal healthy levels.

Another question, what are the benefits of boosting DHEA so high?, does it have stand alone benefits or is it just good as a sign that testosterone is soon to come?

DMac

 

[Primordial Performance]

So I have been reading these Dermacrine threads. I know it is being sold as a PCT product, and I remember one of the threads saying it will raise testosterone in an older men.

My question is;

Is this stuff supposed to raise testosterone in a healthy male who has normal hormone levels? Will this be an effective stand alone testosterone booster for healthy men or just for older men/ men with suppressed hormone levels? If so, have you done any tests on this or do you plan to?

Also what kind of side/ after effects will Dermacrine have, will it leave you suppressed after a cycle. I am thinking about trying it out as a supplement, I haven’t been on any juice for about a year and I would love to find something that will give me some test boost without the atrophy/ risks, but was unclear if it give me a boost or just get me to normal healthy levels.

Another question, what are the benefits of boosting DHEA so high?, does it have stand alone benefits or is it just good as a sign that testosterone is soon to come?

DMac

Here is a saliva test we did on a 23 yr old subject. He was not using steroids, and started the Dermacrine with a high-normal testosterone level. Still, the Dermacrine boosted his levels up about 80-90%. He was using 40 spray pump ED. We are following up on his post dermacrine levels now and will have results to post within a week.

IMO, its the metabolites of DHEA that really mater. However, DHEA has been shown to up-regulate StAR protein, and therefore enhance the conversion of cholesterol > pregnenolone. This is considered one of the "rate limiting" steps in hormone production... and of course testosterone production.

The primary beneficial metabolites of DHEA are explained here -
http://www.primordialperformance.com/hormone_tree.cfm

-Pp

 

[krishna]

So it's effects are caused by DHEA and AI activity? How does this differ from AIFM?

 

[Primordial Performance]

So it's effects are caused by DHEA and AI activity? How does this differ from AIFM?

I expressed my views about AIFM here…

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531551

To be fair, we believe Dermacrine has the best AI’s for PCT, while AIFM (ATD) appears to be the better choice while on cycle due, due to having a stronger AI which would be necessary if using heavily estrogenic steroids.

As far as the difference in topical technology, our OHV platform is untouched by the competition. User feedback has been exceptional with our topical carrier, with no reports of any rash or discomfort from its use.

-Pp

 

[georgie24]

interesting

so this is a PCT regimen?

ill give it a shot when i come off

 

[Primordial Performance]

interesting

so this is a PCT regimen?

Yes, we believe dermacrine will work well for PCT.

However we still advise that users follow proper protocol while on cycle. This includes using HCG during longer cycles (< 8 weeks) to prevent testicular shringage and using an AI while on cycle if using heavily estrogenic AAS.

-Pp

 

[rfowler]

where do I get this?

 

[needtogetaas]

where do I get this?

http://www.dermacrine.com/

 

[Kabeetz]

Possibly very ignorant question...

I remember back in the 90's there were all those 1-AD type things that raised testosterone, and in some cases did, but also gave people a ton of side effects because they weren't properly running PCT, etc. as they perhaps would've just injecting test.

If this product *is* as effective in raising testosterone as claimed, wouldn't it also require some sort of additional AI or PCT used in conjunction to prevent sides?

 

[needtogetaas]

Possibly very ignorant question...

I remember back in the 90's there were all those 1-AD type things that raised testosterone, and in some cases did, but also gave people a ton of side effects because they weren't properly running PCT, etc. as they perhaps would've just injecting test.

If this product *is* as effective in raising testosterone as claimed, wouldn't it also require some sort of additional AI or PCT used in conjunction to prevent sides?

you asked the same dame ??? on a thread about aifm.did you not get a good enough answer then.should i go search it for you.

 

[Kabeetz]

you asked the same dame ??? on a thread about aifm.did you not get a good enough answer then.should i go search it for you.

I don't think I asked the same q before bro but you have a good memory, maybe I did. Either way nothing wrong with a product specific response. Can't be too safe with deciding what products you're gonna put into your body and spend your cash on.

 

[needtogetaas]

I don't think I asked the same q before bro but you have a good memory, maybe I did. Either way nothing wrong with a product specific response. Can't be too safe with deciding what products you're gonna put into your body and spend your cash on.

your right,what the hell its a good way to get a few bumps any way.lol

 

[D_Mac]

Thanks for the answer PP, sounds promising, Kabeetz brought up an interesting issue, I am not familiar with the products he's talking about from the 90's but he does raise an important issue;

If this product *is* as effective in raising testosterone as claimed, wouldn't it also require some sort of additional AI or PCT used in conjunction to prevent sides?

 

[Primordial Performance]

Possibly very ignorant question...

I remember back in the 90's there were all those 1-AD type things that raised testosterone, and in some cases did, but also gave people a ton of side effects because they weren't properly running PCT, etc. as they perhaps would've just injecting test.

If this product *is* as effective in raising testosterone as claimed, wouldn't it also require some sort of additional AI or PCT used in conjunction to prevent sides?

Compared to injectable testosterone that can get your saliva testosterone levels up to 1000-5000pg/ml, Dermacrine is only going to get you up to 200-400pg/ml. Therefore, dermacrine doesn’t require a ton of AI nor is it going to shut you down as hard as a massive testosterone cycle. Dermacrine will raise test levels significantly, but not to insane levels.

1AD is very different from Dermacrine. As I pointed out above DHEA has some unique properties which will actually help initiate hormone production in the body, negating the need for further PCT. Still, Dermacrine does include AI's to prevent excessive estrogen formation… and these specific AI’s also will initiate hormone production.

Bottom line: Dermacrine is not a suppressor, but a stimulator of hormone synthesis.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

Compared to injectable testosterone that can get your saliva testosterone levels up to 1000-5000pg/ml, Dermacrine is only going to get you up to 200-400pg/ml. Therefore, dermacrine doesn’t require a ton of AI nor is it going to shut you down as hard as a massive testosterone cycle. Dermacrine will raise test levels significantly, but not to insane levels.

1AD is very different from Dermacrine. As I pointed out above DHEA has some unique properties which will actually help initiate hormone production in the body, negating the need for further PCT. Still, Dermacrine does include AI's to prevent excessive estrogen formation… and these specific AI’s also will initiate hormone production.

Bottom line: Dermacrine is not a suppressor, but a stimulator of hormone synthesis.

-Pp

see nice bump.good info

 

[aceofspades]

I placed a order for some a little bit ago. I am a bit older and recovery from PCT has never been too easy so I hope it helps.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Good to hear bro. Let us know how it goes.

-Pp

 

[D_Mac]

Compared to injectable testosterone that can get your saliva testosterone levels up to 1000-5000pg/ml, Dermacrine is only going to get you up to 200-400pg/ml. Therefore, dermacrine doesn’t require a ton of AI nor is it going to shut you down as hard as a massive testosterone cycle. Dermacrine will raise test levels significantly, but not to insane levels.

1AD is very different from Dermacrine. As I pointed out above DHEA has some unique properties which will actually help initiate hormone production in the body, negating the need for further PCT. Still, Dermacrine does include AI's to prevent excessive estrogen formation… and these specific AI’s also will initiate hormone production.

Bottom line: Dermacrine is not a suppressor, but a stimulator of hormone synthesis.

-Pp

Thanks for the answer,

Interesting, so a couple weeks after cycle this stuff is supposed to keep my testosterone higher than before I was on it?

 

[Primordial Performance]

Thanks for the answer,

Interesting, so a couple weeks after cycle this stuff is supposed to keep my testosterone higher than before I was on it?

Yes, that is what weve seen so far.

More saliva test results on this next week.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

Yes, that is what weve seen so far.

More saliva test results on this next week.

-Pp

ya my test results will be ready in 6-7 days.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Here is a follow up for the 23 yr old tester. His previous results were posted on the 1st page of the thread.

The most recent results you see below where taken 3 weeks after his last Dermacrine application. As you can see, his T levels are higher than before he started the Dermacrine on the 26th of December.

Dermacrine clears the system within 3-4 days, therefore these results show a positive rebound from Dermacrine, similar to the results seen with the older test subject.

This reinforces the idea that Dermacrine is a hormone initiator, which can be used for a PCT protocol.

-Pp

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Nice to see the bloodwork on this product scanned for everyone. Great Job, PP.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Thanks bro.

TTT.

-Pp

 

[gettinripped]

can you fill me in in the hairloss prevention properties of the dermacrine?? my last test cycle i lost a good bit of hair after coming off. how will dermacrine prevent that?? How do you recommend using the product for that particular reason??

GR

 

[Primordial Performance]

can you fill me in in the hairloss prevention properties of the dermacrine?? my last test cycle i lost a good bit of hair after coming off. how will dermacrine prevent that?? How do you recommend using the product for that particular reason??

GR

With the addition of pregnenolone we are able to reduce the amount of testosterone that converts to DHT (the hair loss hormone).

More specifically, when pregnenolone passes through the skin, it is converted to progesterone. Progesterone acts like a natural finasteride, by competing with testostosterone for the 5alpha-reductase enzyme. This helps reduce the amount of DHT created from testosterone.

However, this wont reduce DHT so much as to cause gyno or hurt sex drive like finestride can do. The addition of pregnenolone in dermacrine is just a gentle way to minimize the hair loss that may occur from the increase in testosterone.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

With the addition of pregnenolone we are able to reduce the amount of testosterone that converts to DHT (the hair loss hormone).

More specifically, when pregnenolone passes through the skin, it is converted to progesterone. Progesterone acts like a natural finasteride, by competing with testostosterone for the 5alpha-reductase enzyme. This helps reduce the amount of DHT created from testosterone.

However, this wont reduce DHT so much as to cause gyno or hurt sex drive like finestride can do. The addition of pregnenolone in dermacrine is just a gentle way to minimize the hair loss that may occur from the increase in testosterone.

-Pp

nice this stuff dos it all

 

[jmead]

what about aifm+derma during cycle.. and just derma pct with normal pct protocol..

dermacrine seems to have some properties that would make it great during cycle..

and everyone knows aifm kicks ass during cycle.. comments?

to much topical? lol who needs oral AIs now days with shit like this

 

[Primordial Performance]

what about aifm+derma during cycle.. and just derma pct with normal pct protocol..

dermacrine seems to have some properties that would make it great during cycle..

and everyone knows aifm kicks ass during cycle.. comments?

to much topical? lol who needs oral AIs now days with shit like this

jmead,

If you want to use Dermacrine during cycle I sure wont stop ya, but I don’t thing it would provide much benefit over just using the AIFM.

However, because of the special properties of the AI’s in Dermacrine, it kicks ass for PCT. You could combine Dermacrine with clomid or nolva… but I think Dermacrine alone would work well for most bros… as long as the testis are not completely atrophied.

-Pp

 

[jmead]

jmead,

If you want to use Dermacrine during cycle I sure wont stop ya, but I don’t thing it would provide much benefit over just using the AIFM.

However, because of the special properties of the AI’s in Dermacrine, it kicks ass for PCT. You could combine Dermacrine with clomid or nolva… but I think Dermacrine alone would work well for most bros… as long as the testis are not completely atrophied.

-Pp

so you think hcg and dermacrine can be a stand alone pct..

im not sure but does aifm have the hair loss benefits like dermacrine does? that was the reasoning behind running it during cycle also

 

[Primordial Performance]

so you think hcg and dermacrine can be a stand alone pct..

im not sure but does aifm have the hair loss benefits like dermacrine does? that was the reasoning behind running it during cycle also

I encourage HCG use DURING cycle rather than post cycle for a number or reasons. If you use HCG during the middle of an AAS cycle, this will prevent testicular atrophy and get you primed for a nice rebound.

If you choose to run HCG post cycle then you’re going to need a more powerful AI, such as arimidex or possibly letrozol due the excessive estrogen formation that HCG causes. This is another reason why I advocate using HCG during the cycle, since you are already most likely using an AI (such as arimidex, letrozol, AIFM, ect)

No, AIFM does not contain pregnenolone/progesterone, and therefore will not help prevent hair loss.

-Pp

 

[Primordial Performance]

up.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

up.

-Pp

lol nice bump

 

[Anthony Roberts]

jmead,

If you want to use Dermacrine during cycle I sure wont stop ya,

However, because of the special properties of the AI’s in Dermacrine, it kicks ass for PCT. You could combine Dermacrine with clomid or nolva… but I think Dermacrine alone would work well for most bros… as long as the testis are not completely atrophied.

-Pp

I'd reccomend it with MyoGenX, to be honest....or maybe with my upcoming AE from protein factory.

 

[ricanx99]

Damn, this stuff does sound like it hits everything! I have started my use of Dermacrine (day 4) and I've noticed a couple things... 1) I feel really good within 5-10 minutes of applying (elevated mood) that lasts for a few hours (3-4)... 2) the areas that I apply it to (chest, shoulders, upper arms, upper abs, traps, lats) have seemed to be a bit more defined. I'm seeing striations and lines that I've never noticed before... It's only been 4 days! Is this normal PP? I have no complaints!

 

[needtogetaas]

Damn, this stuff does sound like it hits everything! I have started my use of Dermacrine (day 4) and I've noticed a couple things... 1) I feel really good within 5-10 minutes of applying (elevated mood) that lasts for a few hours (3-4)... 2) the areas that I apply it to (chest, shoulders, upper arms, upper abs, traps, lats) have seemed to be a bit more defined. I'm seeing striations and lines that I've never noticed before... It's only been 4 days! Is this normal PP? I have no complaints!

I feel the mood thing you are talking about.most of the others that have bin testing have said the same,.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Damn, this stuff does sound like it hits everything! I have started my use of Dermacrine (day 4) and I've noticed a couple things... 1) I feel really good within 5-10 minutes of applying (elevated mood) that lasts for a few hours (3-4)... 2) the areas that I apply it to (chest, shoulders, upper arms, upper abs, traps, lats) have seemed to be a bit more defined. I'm seeing striations and lines that I've never noticed before... It's only been 4 days! Is this normal PP? I have no complaints!

That is great to hear bro.

Ive never seen visual gains within 4 days… but I’ve definitely heard of uplifted mood and energy levels as the first thing people notice.

-Pp

 

[mm107]

I also feel i am leaner, and my diet is not so clean right now.....in fact i usually cannot see my top 2 abs while 'bulking' but they are there and my arms/delts are in fact more defined. I dont know if i would say defined, or 'dryer' if you get my drift.

Great product so far, i cant wait to get my before/after bloodwork for all the doubters.

 

[aceofspades]

I just recently recieved my order of Dermacrine. I am a older member (43) and recovery from my cycles has been rough at time and after the last cycle, I still feel like I have not recovered fully. My cycle was:

Test Prop 100mg ED (Week 1 - Week 4)
Test Enanthate 600mg (Week 1 - Week 14)
Trenbolone Enanthate 400mg (Week1 - Week 12)
Var 40mg/day (Week 8 - Week 12)
Proviron 50mg /ed
HCG 250iu 2x/week

The PCT I did for the cycle that I recently finished was:

wk1: Clomid 150mg/d (300mg Day 1), Nolva 60mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d,
wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, Nolva 40mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d
wk3: Nolva 20mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d
wk4: Nolva 20mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk5: Nolva 10mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
AIFM ( 1 pump per day all the way )

I have decided to try a second round of PCT with Clomid @ 50mg/day and I am also going to include cabaser at 0.50mg 2x/week and the Dermacrine as directed. I will report back my findings.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Glad to hear that it's working for people.

I may have missed it, but is there some bloodwork on the estrogen levels with this stuff too?

 

[skullcrushin22]

I am on Day 5 of Dermacrine and everythings going great so far.

 

[needtogetaas]

Glad to hear that it's working for people.

I may have missed it, but is there some bloodwork on the estrogen levels with this stuff too?

yes my saliva test should be ready some time this week or early next week.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Glad to hear that it's working for people.

I may have missed it, but is there some bloodwork on the estrogen levels with this stuff too?

We are testing E1, T, and DHEA levels in the testers via saliva.

-Pp

 

[ricanx99]

I also feel i am leaner, and my diet is not so clean right now.....in fact i usually cannot see my top 2 abs while 'bulking' but they are there and my arms/delts are in fact more defined. I dont know if i would say defined, or 'dryer' if you get my drift.

Great product so far, i cant wait to get my before/after bloodwork for all the doubters.

Yea, i get your drift on the dryer part... That's probably a better choice of words for what I see and feel when I apply it. BTW, I've seen your video of your Squat Lockout..... OMG.... 900+ lbs...... that's sick.....

 

[medical]

I'm actually considering buying some of their saliva testing kits to get some tests I want done...

Also as an amateur transdermal brewer, I might see about the cost for them to brew up some stuff for me instead of having to do it myself every time one of my pre-contest people need something...

I can do confirmation or independent saliva (or for that matter blood) hormone testing. Ask around for my credentials but it is my primary business.

 

[medical]

Glad to hear that it's working for people.

I may have missed it, but is there some bloodwork on the estrogen levels with this stuff too?

The saliva tests (at least the ones that I use.....I have no affiliation with PP) are actually originally designed as an Estrogen test.

 

[solidspine]

Seems a lot easier to simply inject 500mg of test once a week, and not worry about it. \


Less expensive too, I would suspect

 

[Primordial Performance]

The saliva tests (at least the ones that I use.....I have no affiliation with PP) are actually originally designed as an Estrogen test.

We are only a vendor for the ZRT saliva kits. We do not test them, or have any say in the results. They are tested by ZRT (an independant lab)

-Pp

 

[njmuscleguy]

So how long is the recommended length of time to use Dermacrine for PCT? And should it always be done only immediately post-cycle? I'm asking because I typically tend to still feel great up to 2-3 weeks after the end of the cycle and then I crash big-time, for a long time.... regardless of the PCT. If I were to use Dermacrine during that 2-3 week period post-cycle, I'm not sure that I'd *feel* a difference... also unsure of whether or not it would prevent the dreaded crash.

 

[mm107]

So how long is the recommended length of time to use Dermacrine for PCT? And should it always be done only immediately post-cycle? I'm asking because I typically tend to still feel great up to 2-3 weeks after the end of the cycle and then I crash big-time, for a long time.... regardless of the PCT. If I were to use Dermacrine during that 2-3 week period post-cycle, I'm not sure that I'd *feel* a difference... also unsure of whether or not it would prevent the dreaded crash.

NjMuscle: My last shot was JAN 26. Its Now Feb 21. So it has been over 23days which is somewhat over 3 weeks. My strenght has come down a bit, but i still hit my best PR last weekend. 420 on the bench. 3 weeks in a row. Clean i have hit 420 on the bench.....everyworkout i go in and mentally fuck myself, what if i crashed, what if im shutting down, etc....now i pop my creatine and go at it as hard as i can....

I do think Dermacrine is Helping big time, give it a shot, if you want, wait untill the lab results are all back in.

 

[needtogetaas]

NjMuscle: My last shot was JAN 26. Its Now Feb 21. So it has been over 23days which is somewhat over 3 weeks. My strenght has come down a bit, but i still hit my best PR last weekend. 420 on the bench. 3 weeks in a row. Clean i have hit 420 on the bench.....everyworkout i go in and mentally fuck myself, what if i crashed, what if im shutting down, etc....now i pop my creatine and go at it as hard as i can....

I do think Dermacrine is Helping big time, give it a shot, if you want, wait untill the lab results are all back in.

me love it to.

 

[Primordial Performance]

So how long is the recommended length of time to use Dermacrine for PCT? And should it always be done only immediately post-cycle? I'm asking because I typically tend to still feel great up to 2-3 weeks after the end of the cycle and then I crash big-time, for a long time.... regardless of the PCT. If I were to use Dermacrine during that 2-3 week period post-cycle, I'm not sure that I'd *feel* a difference... also unsure of whether or not it would prevent the dreaded crash.

I would wait to start the Dermacrine on the 2-3rd week. Depending on the AAS you are using, this is when they are probably clearing the system, and the best time to kick in the Dermacrine to prevent the crash.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

I would wait to start the Dermacrine on the 2-3rd week. Depending on the AAS you are using, this is when they are probably clearing the system, and the best time to kick in the Dermacrine to prevent the crash.

-Pp

 

[aceofspades]

I am on my 3rd day so far and I do not really feel anything to this point but it might just be too soon. I am going to be traveling to Mexico next week for four days and I assume that I will not have a problem traveling with this stuff.

 

[Primordial Performance]

I am on my 3rd day so far and I do not really feel anything to this point but it might just be too soon. I am going to be traveling to Mexico next week for four days and I assume that I will not have a problem traveling with this stuff.

How many pumps are you using? Spray or lotion pump?

You wont have any problems traveling, but Id put the original cap on just incase (to prevent leakage)

-Pp

 

[odoyal rulez]

Anyone here get your test results back yuet?

 

[Primordial Performance]

Anyone here get your test results back yuet?

Aside from the original private testers, none of the most recent testers have gotten their "after" results back yet. It will be another couple weeks till they come in.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

Anyone here get your test results back yuet?

I should get mine in about 2 weeks.I just sent them out today.I can say this they must have gon up some.I feel great and my lifts are all up.

 

[gjohnson5]

Thanks, I did receive the bottle today. I will see if I can schedule a blood panel.

 

[needtogetaas]

Thanks, I did receive the bottle today. I will see if I can schedule a blood panel.

cool i think medic said he would do them for free

 

[aceofspades]

How many pumps are you using? Spray or lotion pump?

You wont have any problems traveling, but Id put the original cap on just incase (to prevent leakage)

-Pp

I am using the lotion pump and using 5 - 6 pumps per application.

 

[needtogetaas]

I am using the lotion pump and using 5 - 6 pumps per application.

how long have you bin one.how you like it.

 

[aceofspades]

how long have you bin one.how you like it.

I have been on for four days now and I honestly do not notice much at this point. I will keep going with it and see if things change.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I would wait to start the Dermacrine on the 2-3rd week. Depending on the AAS you are using, this is when they are probably clearing the system, and the best time to kick in the Dermacrine to prevent the crash.

-Pp

Thanks!

So I guess I should wait the 2-3 weeks, get blood-work, then run a course of Dermacrine for a while then get tested again? About how long after stopping treatment should bloodwork be done?

 

[needtogetaas]

I have been on for four days now and I honestly do not notice much at this point. I will keep going with it and see if things change.

cool

 

[Primordial Performance]

Thanks!

So I guess I should wait the 2-3 weeks, get blood-work, then run a course of Dermacrine for a while then get tested again? About how long after stopping treatment should bloodwork be done?

What is your cycle? How much, how long?

-Pp

 

[gjohnson5]

When using the spray pump, it seems easy enough to apply. 40 spray pumps is alot but easy to do. I had an good day in the gym as well, so well see in a few weeks

 

[needtogetaas]

When using the spray pump, it seems easy enough to apply. 40 spray pumps is alot but easy to do. I had an good day in the gym as well, so well see in a few weeks

ya thats why I use the pump 4-5 pumps and you are good to go.gjohnson5
I am glad you are trying this out.I have always trusted you as a member of ef.we go back so what you have to say matters to me.

 

[gjohnson5]

Why thank you need2.

This should be intersting

ya thats why I use the pump 4-5 pumps and you are good to go.gjohnson5
I am glad you are trying this out.I have always trusted you as a member of ef.we go back so what you have to say matters to me.

 

[njmuscleguy]

What is your cycle? How much, how long?

-Pp

Wks 1-4 dbol 50mg ED
Wks 1-8 test enth (started off at 1g, then went down to 750mg at wk 5)
Wks 1-8 Proviron 50mg ED
Wks 1-8 Aromasin 12.5 mg ED
Threw in some NPP at Wks 5-8 (200mg / wk)

 

[needtogetaas]

Why thank you need2.

This should be intersting

 

[Primordial Performance]

Thanks!

So I guess I should wait the 2-3 weeks, get blood-work, then run a course of Dermacrine for a while then get tested again? About how long after stopping treatment should bloodwork be done?

Id wait about 3 weeks after the Dermacrine to test your blood/saliva hormone levels.

-Pp

 

[gjohnson5]

I must say, had a good day in the gym and the only change to my supplementation was the dermacrine

 

[ricanx99]

I must say, had a good day in the gym and the only change to my supplementation was the dermacrine

AWESOME! I am having an unusually early training session tomorrow and I hope to feel the same way! I usually lift in the afternoon or early evening but am adjusting tomorrows session to meet up with my training partner Zgzaz. I hope to notice something good out of it! I'm loving the elevated mood and grainier look so far!

 

[needtogetaas]

I must say, had a good day in the gym and the only change to my supplementation was the dermacrine

 

[gjohnson5]

That's the thing. I was in a bad mood cause I had to work like 18 hours on Saturday to clean up someone elses mess. No gym time on sunday (cause I was tired and sleepy) and I still had a good day in the gym tonight

AWESOME! I am having an unusually early training session tomorrow and I hope to feel the same way! I usually lift in the afternoon or early evening but am adjusting tomorrows session to meet up with my training partner Zgzaz. I hope to notice something good out of it! I'm loving the elevated mood and grainier look so far!

 

[gettinripped]

so is everybody running this along with clomid say?? you hit the hcg for the last 10 days or so of your cycle, wait 2-3 weeks for the clearing time and then start derma and clomid or just derm alone??

sorry if this has been answered, in a hurry this morning.

 

[mm107]

so is everybody running this along with clomid say?? you hit the hcg for the last 10 days or so of your cycle, wait 2-3 weeks for the clearing time and then start derma and clomid or just derm alone??

sorry if this has been answered, in a hurry this morning.

THe makers, told me, i didnt not need run clomid. As the sides of clomid are just not worth it. They told me, of course if i wanted to run it along with clomid/nolva it would be ok, but it is not needed.

 

[needtogetaas]

THe makers, told me, i didnt not need run clomid. As the sides of clomid are just not worth it. They told me, of course if i wanted to run it along with clomid/nolva it would be ok, but it is not needed.

yup exactly right.

 

[Primordial Performance]

so is everybody running this along with clomid say?? you hit the hcg for the last 10 days or so of your cycle, wait 2-3 weeks for the clearing time and then start derma and clomid or just derm alone??

sorry if this has been answered, in a hurry this morning.

What you should use for PCT really depends what and how your cycle was ran.

If you cycle was short (4-6 wks with short acting esters) then a Dermacrine alone PCT would be sufficient. However if you cycle is longer (12-16 wks) then you should be running HCG during the cycle. If you ran HCG during the cycle then Dermacrine alone would be sufficient. If you didn’t run HCG, then running it for PCT is still an option… but this is just bad protocol IMO. Not running HCG at some point during a cycle is one of the biggest mistakes a steroid user can make.

On that note -- We are currently working on a supplement that will minimize suppression at the hypothalamus during cycle and increase your release of LH from the pituitary (while on cycle), thus acting similar to HCG and minimizing testicular shrinkage.

Anyway, as Ive said before if your nuts are atrophied to the size of raisins, no PCT is going to work well. The key is to avoid testicular shrinkage in the first place, an this involves keeping a LH signal going from the pituitary to the testis in one way or another.

-Pp

 

[aceofspades]

Anyway, as Ive said before if your nuts are atrophied to the size of raisins, no PCT is going to work well. The key is to avoid testicular shrinkage in the first place, an this involves keeping a LH signal going from the pituitary to the testis in one way or another.

-Pp

Very good point and this is the main reason I always run HCG @ 250iu during my cycles to prevent this from happening. My nuts never shrink up.

 

[needtogetaas]

i herd there was some good info in this thread

 

[Nighthawkk]

I've been "on" for well over a year (half of which was bridging) and still use HCG intermittently. I will be running a much longer PCT after the 18th month of use (HCG/Nolv/Clomid) when I decide to stop, but was wondering where I could fit in Dermacrine if I wanted to give it a shot? I plan to be off for a minimum of 8-12 months.

 

[skullcrushin22]

Just like 99.99% of all other supplements on the market, Dermacrine = Snake Oil. It's a bogus product, which cannot back up it's manufacturers claims.

The sooner the FDA steps up to the plate and starts regulating these psuedscience products, the better.

Enough is enough is enough.

Your talking out of your ass.

 

[Primordial Performance]

I've been "on" for well over a year (half of which was bridging) and still use HCG intermittently. I will be running a much longer PCT after the 18th month of use (HCG/Nolv/Clomid) when I decide to stop, but was wondering where I could fit in Dermacrine if I wanted to give it a shot? I plan to be off for a minimum of 8-12 months.

Hey bro,

If you already have an HCG/nolva/clomid PCT lined up, I would wait till your done with that before starting the Dermacrine.

-Pp

 

[D_Mac]

Just like 99.99% of all other supplements on the market, Dermacrine = Snake Oil. It's a bogus product, which cannot back up it's manufacturers claims.

The sooner the FDA steps up to the plate and starts regulating these psuedscience products, the better.

Enough is enough is enough.

You guys don't use Snake Oil any more? Roni Coleman uses Snake Oil.

 

[D_Mac]

Just like 99.99% of all other supplements on the market, Dermacrine = Snake Oil. It's a bogus product, which cannot back up it's manufacturers claims.

The sooner the FDA steps up to the plate and starts regulating these psuedscience products, the better.

Enough is enough is enough.

I agree completely, and while they're at it we need to get rid of all these steriod users. Don't they know that all steriods do is shrink your testes and give you cancer.

The FDA needs to get in here and put a stop to places like this where this stuff can even be discussed.

And another thing, that Creatine stuff, all it does is put water in your muscles and give you hairy palms...

or is that jacking off?.. well one of the two at least.

And don't even get me started on Whey Protein, that shi.....

 

[needtogetaas]

You guys don't use Snake Oil any more? Roni Coleman uses Snake Oil.

lol nice touch.

 

[medical]

Just like 99.99% of all other supplements on the market, Dermacrine = Snake Oil. It's a bogus product, which cannot back up it's manufacturers claims.

The sooner the FDA steps up to the plate and starts regulating these psuedscience products, the better.

Enough is enough is enough.

I have nothing to do with any supplement product...I own a testing facility. I'm sending out hormone test kits early next week at my own expense to users of this product. Also testing myself. We'll see.

 

[needtogetaas]

I have nothing to do with any supplement product...I own a testing facility. I'm sending out hormone test kits early next week at my own expense to users of this product. Also testing myself. We'll see.

thats awesome

 

[Primordial Performance]

I have nothing to do with any supplement product...I own a testing facility. I'm sending out hormone test kits early next week at my own expense to users of this product. Also testing myself. We'll see.

When are you having them test?

I hope your having them do this at the same time they will be using the kits Ive given them....

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

When are you having them test?

I hope your having them do this at the same time they will be using the kits Ive given them....

-Pp

would be kind of dumb for him to do it any other way.but who knows.

 

[ZGzaZ]

I'm having a great experience with dermacrine so far...

For about the first week I didn't notice too much, I'm in for a little over 2 weeks now and I'm noticing a lot.
- My sex drive has increased dramatically.
- My appetite is way through the roof, eating way more than I was 2 weeks ago.
- Im less tired throughout the day, and less fatigued from my workouts.
- I feel like I can do much more in the gym, and strength is steadily increasing.

Very satisfied with it so far, it's doing everything it had promised... a great product overall, will post some more results in the next week.

 

[needtogetaas]

I'm having a great experience with dermacrine so far...

For about the first week I didn't notice too much, I'm in for a little over 2 weeks now and I'm noticing a lot.
- My sex drive has increased dramatically.
- My appetite is way through the roof, eating way more than I was 2 weeks ago.
- Im less tired throughout the day, and less fatigued from my workouts.
- I feel like I can do much more in the gym, and strength is steadily increasing.

Very satisfied with it so far, it's doing everything it had promised... a great product overall, will post some more results in the next week.

same here.

 

[needtogetaas]

Ok...I didn't like the direction the other Dermacrine thread was going....I feel like there wasn't enough information about the actual product and too much bickering. So...since I was interested enough in the product to read through the other thread, I contacted Primordial Performance (on the phone) and asked for some information on the product. After that, I received an e-mail with product information, and I think it's important to share that info here, so people can get acquainted with the product and the new sponsor and learn about the product. Here's the information I received via e-mail from the manufacturer (*contains information about people who tried it as well as references and such concerning the ingredients...as well as the logic going into th product formulation):


On Dec. 21 a 44 year old non-steroid using man had his hormone levels analyzed via saliva.(test 1) His DHEA’s, testosterone and estrogens were all in the very low sub-physiological range. In this case, the man would not have benefited from simple AI treatment, due to the fact that his estrogen levels where already below normal range.

He began Dermacrine treatment the following day using 30-35 spray pumps everyday for 25 days.

While using Dermacrine his DHEA levels rose from 1.2 pg/ml -23 pg/ml. This was over a 2200% increase in DHEA levels. Free testosterone levels rose from 50pg/ml up to 137pg/ml. This was over a 150% increase in testosterone. Estrogens (E1,E2) increased to a negligible degree, and stayed within normal range.(test 1)

After Dermacrine treatment stopped on the 15th of January we tested his levels again on the 18st. His levels of DHEA and testosterone dropped below baseline, showing a 3-4 day clearance of Dermacrine from the system. Less than 2 weeks later we tested his levels again to see if they returned.(test 2) His DHEA levels increased from 1000% and testosterone levels increased about 10% above baseline, showing a strong return of hormone levels, without further treatment. We hypothesize the future tests will show an even higher testosterone level.

What we can interpret from these results is that Dermacrine elicits a positive effect on the HTPA, leading to an up-regulation of hormone production. This effect has been noted before in other studies with topical DHEA. In the below study, the authors proposed that the topical treatment of DHEA initiated adrenarche, known as a surge in hormone levels in response to super-physiological DHEA levels similar to puberty. Interestingly, this effect is not a result of the DHEA converting to further hormones, but an indirect effect that DHEA has on the synthesis of cholesterol > hormones. In other words, DHEA enhances the production of itself.

Effects of transdermal application of DHEA on the levels of steroids, gonadotropins and lipids in men.
J Sulcova, M Hill, R Hampl, Z Masek, A Novacek, R Ceska, and L Starka
Physiol Res, Jan 2000; 49(6): 685-93.

Additionally, we hypothesize that part of the benefits seen with Dermacrine are a result of the aromatase inhibitors included in the formula such as resveratrol, 7,8 benzoflavone and chrysin. The research shows that the ingredients in the Phyto-AI blend enhance fertility, by eliciting a positive response from the hypothalamus, pituitary, testicular axis (HPTA). Meaning, the Phyto-AI blend will increase lutienizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone release (FSH) release from the pituitary. As most of you know, these are the hormones sent from the brain that trigger testosterone production from the testis. This effect seems to be caused by the Phyto-AI’s antagonistic interaction with the estrogen receptor similar to the action of SERMs such as clomid & nolvadex but without the toxic side-effects.

Inhibition of human estrogen synthetase (aromatase) by flavones JT Kellis, Jr and LE Vickery Science, Sep 1984; 225: 1032 - 1034.

trans-Resveratrol, a Natural Antioxidant from Grapes, Increases Sperm Output in Healthy Rats M. Emília Juan, Eulalia González-Pons, Thais Munuera, Joan Ballester, Joan E. Rodríguez-Gil, and Joana M. Planas J. Nutr., Apr 2005; 135: 757 - 760

Prevention of chronic alcohol and nicotine-induced azospermia, sterility and decreased libido, by a novel tri-substituted benzoflavone moiety from Passiflora incarnata Linneaus in healthy male rats. K Dhawan and A Sharma Life Sci, Nov 2002; 71(26): 3059-69.

These are the proposed mechanisms partly explaining why we believe Dermacrine will function as a strong PCT supplement, whether used with a SERM or not.

-Pp

bin reading your book lately bro and I must say I like it.