Deltoid training. Tell me your workout!

[dabuffguy]

High rep work burns calories...

Yeah, true, but the amount of calories greater burned is insignificant, if any at all.

calories=energy.

Pushing more weight (less reps) requires more energy/calories to push. I know when I do heavier weight, my heart rate goes higher than when doing high rep.


tone comes from a clean diet and cardio, or a low BF%. Maximum hypertrophic lifting allows for greatest tone, because there is the greatest amount of muscle to be seen. Very high rep won't allow for maximum hypertrophy for a lot of muscle groups.

 

[gjohnson5]

Why do people make statements like this without researching and without any data to support it?

Aerobic training burns calories, it doesnt matter if it cycling , jumping rope for doing submaximal reps clean and press. The idea would be to lift 50% 1RM in a manner which increases heart rate. If doing leg or back work , it doesn't take much to increase heart rate doing rep work

The amount of calories burned would depend on the amount of set X reps @ whatever % of 1RM, the length of time spent doing so and the muscle fibers of the individual. Type I muscle fiber uses mainly tyiglycerides as fuel so any extended length of time doing submaximal high repetition work WILL burn calories

Yeah, true, but the amount of calories greater burned is insignificant, if any at all.

calories=energy.

Pushing more weight (less reps) requires more energy/calories to push. I know when I do heavier weight, my heart rate goes higher than when doing high rep.


tone comes from a clean diet and cardio, or a low BF%. Maximum hypertrophic lifting allows for greatest tone, because there is the greatest amount of muscle to be seen. Very high rep won't allow for maximum hypertrophy for a lot of muscle groups.

 

[DannoMight]

I'm fairly blessed in the shoulder dept but I do milk pour laterals where you turn the DB at the top of the movement, and I also have been focusing more on my rear delt with seated/bent over laterals or the rear delt machine. I also rotate between DB abd BB military presses.

 

[dabuffguy]

Why do people make statements like this without researching and without any data to support it?

Aerobic training burns calories, it doesnt matter if it cycling , jumping rope for doing submaximal reps clean and press. The idea would be to lift 50% 1RM in a manner which increases heart rate. If doing leg or back work , it doesn't take much to increase heart rate doing rep work

The amount of calories burned would depend on the amount of set X reps @ whatever % of 1RM, the length of time spent doing so and the muscle fibers of the individual. Type I muscle fiber uses mainly tyiglycerides as fuel so any extended length of time doing submaximal high repetition work WILL burn calories

I never said aerobic training/ high rep training didn't burn calories. Of course it does.

You're not going to burn enough calories with high rep vs. Heavy reps to make a real difference in the overall tone and definition of the muscle. Especially if the high rep range isn't optimal hypertrophic training range. Maximum muscle size, and lowest body fat % is where you get the tone. The diet and cardio are what makes the big difference in tone, not rep range. Go ask 8and20, he'll back me up on this.

And don't assume I haven't researched it, because you disagree. The fact that you disagree with me tells me either, 1 you don't understand what I said, so you misunderstood or 2 you don;t know what you're talking about.


If your idea is that you burn a lot more calories doing high reps, therefore burning fat and increasing tone, yes you are correct in the assumption that burning more calories will increase definition. High rep range doesn't add tone directly, it is through the decrease in body fat, not that muscle "toning up" from a higher rep range. But still, high rep vs heavy rep calorie burning isn't drastically different.

 

[gjohnson5]

You have a very narrow view of exercise.
I cut the rest of the post because the beginning needs discussion

How's this. If high reps doesn't burn calories and build strength enough to be a viable option, I want you to do *edit* Mike Mahler *edit* combat conditioning exercises where he does 500 hindu squats in one set. As you decrease the pace or tempo the muscles have to do more work due to less momentum. The faster pace the less work from muscle ,but increased heart rate. Either way , you build muscle and build conditioning at the same time. This basically is cardio...

To kinda sorta agree with you. If your diet is already 1500 calories over your energy needs , then you're gonna have to burn 1500 calories in some way or simply reduce the calories by 1500. For most people their diets are not that wacked and in that case I would agree that no exercise would make a difference in terms of tone or body fat percentage.

But I disagree that exercise doesn't burn calories or can make a difference in terms of bodyfat percentage over the long term. If the persons diet is reasonable, then I belive it can

I never said aerobic training/ high rep training didn't burn calories. Of course it does.

You're not going to burn enough calories with high rep vs. Heavy reps to make a real difference in the overall tone and definition of the muscle.

 

[robertoblanco]

just recently changed it from:

over head db press 6x8
side laterals 4x8
bent over db raises 2x8

to

over head db press 6x8
over head bb press 4x8
bent over db raises 4x8

 

[dabuffguy]

You have a very narrow view of exercise.
I cut the rest of the post because the beginning needs discussion

How's this. If high reps doesn't burn calories and build strength enough to be a viable option, I want you to do *edit* Mike Mahler *edit* combat conditioning exercises where he does 500 hindu squats in one set. As you decrease the pace or tempo the muscles have to do more work due to less momentum. The faster pace the less work from muscle ,but increased heart rate. Either way , you build muscle and build conditioning at the same time. This basically is cardio...

To kinda sorta agree with you. If your diet is already 1500 calories over your energy needs , then you're gonna have to burn 1500 calories in some way or simply reduce the calories by 1500. For most people their diets are not that wacked and in that case I would agree that no exercise would make a difference in terms of tone or body fat percentage.

But I disagree that exercise doesn't burn calories or can make a difference in terms of bodyfat percentage over the long term. If the persons diet is reasonable, then I belive it can

I didn't say excercise doesn't burn calories or make a difference. See, you misunderstood me. It's the high rep vs heavy rep training that doesn't have a big difference between eachother.

If i did bench at 135lbs for 30 reps, or I did 225 lbs for 10 reps, I am not going to burn so many more calories that muscle tone/body fat would de significantly better.

High rep training by itself burns lots of calories, obviously. So does heavy weight training. The amount of calories burned using a high repetition training will not exceed that of heavy repetition by enough to make a significant difference in tone.

And I totally resent the fact that you say I have a narrow perspective on excercise. That's not true in the least. And how in the hell can you come to that conclusion by this thread?

maximum hypertrophic training (which is almost always a heavier rep training rather than a high rep training) with a good diet and cardio is how you get tone. High rep training is not how you get tone/definition.

 

[the_alcatraz]

It's very important for your shoulder workour to be intense. Supersets, trisets, giansets, dropsets, stripping method, etc...most of the sets have to be at least 8 reps if you're looking for hypertrophy. I do sets of 4 on laterals and 12-15 reps each set.

 

[gjohnson5]

Comments below

If i did bench at 135lbs for 30 reps, or I did 225 lbs for 10 reps, I am not going to burn so many more calories that muscle tone/body fat would de significantly better.

High rep training by itself burns lots of calories, obviously. So does heavy weight training. The amount of calories burned using a high repetition training will not exceed that of heavy repetition by enough to make a significant difference in tone.

Look at the part in bold. If you think 30 reps is high then you DO have a narrow view of exercise as I said. I apologize if you resent what I said , but unfortunately it seems to be true....

Anyway If you go to gym and and base burning calories on one set of bench of 10 - 30 reps , then no. This is just a horrible example. I provided a much better example in the previous post.

maximum hypertrophic training (which is almost always a heavier rep training rather than a high rep training) with a good diet and cardio is how you get tone. High rep training is not how you get tone/definition.

That the opinion of something you haven't tried or studied. It starts with a good diet. We agree there. But your idea of cardio is narrow (sorry)

 

[dabuffguy]

Comments below



Look at the part in bold. If you think 30 reps is high then you DO have a narrow view of exercise as I said. I apologize if you resent what I said , but unfortunately it seems to be true....

Anyway If you go to gym and and base burning calories on one set of bench of 10 - 30 reps , then no. This is just a horrible example. I provided a much better example in the previous post.



That the opinion of something you haven't tried or studied. It starts with a good diet. We agree there. But your idea of cardio is narrow (sorry)

Look man, I started this thread for shoulder training advice, so don't come argue with me about high rep 500+ rep gay ass hindu squats. I know high rep training can burn calories, and you can get tone from that. So does heavy weight training, breathing and blinking burn calories.

Doing 500 rep hindu judo squats isn't going to get your legs beefy like a 10-15 rep set of 350+ lb squats.

I could care less about 500 rep squats. That is not "getting your swell on" at the gym, and if you think so in anyway, that's sad. It's cardio, and I was never talking about cardio. Cardio is not weight lifting. You saying 500 rep squats is a form of weigh lifting is the same as me sayin a 10,000 rep bycycle cardio workout is the same as doing 10,000 rep one-legged leg presses for tone. And I'll be damned if I'm being narrow. I don't give a shit.


I'm not going to even discuss this any further because you clearly don't understand the point I was trying to make. In the context of lifting for maximum size and strength, getting the tone to your muscle will come from doing cardio and low body fat. High rep lifting in your "Un-narrow" view of 500+ reps is not in the least weight training, but is another form of cardio and NOT high rep weight training. And, yes, in the context of maximum strength and hypertrophy, 30 reps is HIGH. End of discussion.