Cycle Critique Please

[babbabuee]

Stats:
- 5'8" 175lbs (11-13%BF)
- 8 years lifting (last 2yrs seriously)
- 33 yrs old
- History of 3 cycles, all of which ended with injuries and loss of gains, most notably the last one (motorcycle jump gone bad, herniated disc, surgery last October)
- Diet and Training is spot on. I feel very confident with my knowledge of proper dieting/training.

Proposed Cycle:
- Dbol @ 15mg days 1-30(I blow up quick and the pumps make it hard to lift, so keeping it low)
- Sust 250mg e4d days 1-40
- Deca 200mg e4d days 1-40
- Primo 200mg e4d weeks 41-80
- Proviron @ 25mg ed days 10-30 (to run with nolva for dbol bloat)
- Nolvadex @ 20mg ed days 7-30 (to keep dbol bloat down)
- Andriol (test undecoanate) at 160mg ed days 65-95
- HCG at 500iu eod with 20mg nolvadex 20mg days 80-95
- Clomid therapy at 300mg day 96, 200mg day 97, 100mg ed days 97-107, 50mg ed days 108-118.

will be supplementing cycle with the following:
- multivitamin 2x's daily
- vitamin E
- Flax oil
- Amino Acids
- Glucosamine/MSM/Chondroitin
- Saw Palmetto
- Milk Thistle
- B12 and/or Bcomplex

I know this probably looks pretty confusing to everyone else, but in my head it's all clear. cycle is a bit longer than I had initially anticipated but I think I can make it work. Sorry for the use of "days" instead of the traditional "weeks", but I feel that I would get more even concentrations by doing e4d injects instead of the standard Mon and Thursday protocol. thanks in advance for any feeback, negative or positive. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[help4john]

Why the change from Deca to Primo day 41? Primo being at such a low dose for only 5 weeks.....not sure that you will receive optimal gains.

Why Andriol in the last weeks? Perhaps the funds would be better spend on more liquid Test.

Have you thought about using Arimidex as opposed to Nolvadex/Proviron? Arimidex is great for bloat and to combat estrogen.

 

[babbabuee]

thanks for the response help4john...

the change from deca to primo is just to give me a chance to try deca out. I have the option to run the primo the entire time if I want. Do you think it would be better for me to stick with one or the other? I kind of wondered about that. Do they both bind to the same type of receptor?

Andriol, just because I can get some for free and it's not 17-aa, give my liver a break since I was taking a lot of Vicodin and Somas last year dealing with the back pain and surgery.

nolvadex/proviron instead of arimidex because I did try liquidex with my last dbol cycle and it didn't do much at all.

 

[Outtlaw]

That's a very low dosed cycle. I think you're going too short on the sust/deca. That's barely 7wks, I think you need to do at least 9 to get the most out of those compounds. 200mg of primo is a complete waste of gear. Im not even gonna get into the andriol... who uses that anyways? I think you need to do a complete revamp of this cycle.

 

[help4john]

thanks for the response help4john...

the change from deca to primo is just to give me a chance to try deca out. I have the option to run the primo the entire time if I want. Do you think it would be better for me to stick with one or the other? I kind of wondered about that. Do they both bind to the same type of receptor?

Andriol, just because I can get some for free and it's not 17-aa, give my liver a break since I was taking a lot of Vicodin and Somas last year dealing with the back pain and surgery.

nolvadex/proviron instead of arimidex because I did try liquidex with my last dbol cycle and it didn't do much at all.

I agree with Outtlaw. Doubt you will receive any benefits from changing from Deca to Primo. It may be best to pick one and stick with it. If you are bulking stick with Deca 200-400mg EW or cutting use Primo at least 400mg EW. Extend your cycle to 8-10 weeks and include Test the whole time.

Although Andriol is easy on the liver compared to other orals.....it's also easy in the results department. You'll get much better results from Winny or even Var.....but I personally don't like either one used at the end of a cycle (a short cycle less than 10 weeks) that began with DBOL....little rough on the liver. There must be a reason why it's free?!?

I have read mixed reviews about Liquidex from this board and another board. I prefer the actual pill form (much more expensive however) but IBE carriers a brand that has worked for me (should I mention them since their not a sponsor of EF?).

You may want to review the cycle and decide on your goals. No sense making it more complicated then it has to be. How about Test/Deca for 10 weeks with some DBOL to jumpstart? Keep Nolvadex on hand in the event gyno starts but you could also use Arimidex. Hope this helped! Good luck!

 

[babbabuee]

Outlaw, thanks for your time in responding. I know my post was rather long and thought you may have missed a few points I made... Just wanted to elaborate a bit. I will simplify and go to just Primo/sust(which I have plenty of). Please note that the cycle called for 250mg sust e4d and 200mg primo e4d. That means it's just shy of 500mg/wk of sust and 400mg/wk of primo. I know that primo isn't that potent, and maybe 500mg of sust isn't that much by some standards, but I feel confident that I can easily put on some mass with that much gear. Especially with the dbol kickstart and the andriol at the end. And please note also that the cycle is actually 95 days long (13.5weeks). Also, the andriol was actually a gift and I'm 100% sure it's legit. Of course it won't do what var/winny would do, but like I said, I'm trying to take it easy on my liver and contrary to what is "said" on this board, I know a few people that have made substantial gains off of Andriol ONLY. I just want a little extra kick at the end of the cycle and I think 160mg should do just that, a little extra kick. Plus I'd like to use it for that two weeks after my last injection to keep some extra test in my system while the sust/primo wears off.

The only thing I can think to change would be to up the sust to 250mg e3d and do 200mg primo e3d, which is actually 583mg sust/wk and 467mg primo/wk. Now that I think of it, I'm starting to feel that more is better ideology. What you guys think now?

 

[Outtlaw]

The only thing I can think to change would be to up the sust to 250mg e3d and do 200mg primo e3d, which is actually 583mg sust/wk and 467mg primo/wk. Now that I think of it, I'm starting to feel that more is better ideology. What you guys think now?

More is not always better, but when it comes to primo you have to use a certain amount of it if you expect it to work for you. I like this e3d idea much better. But 6 and 3/4 weeks of sust/deca is cutting it short IMO.

 

[Ulter]

I like it just the way you wrote it. Using primo post-deca is a good way to clear the deca without crashing. You won't get much in the way of gains but you won't lose any either.
You should do very well with that.

 

[babbabuee]

Thanks Ulter, means a lot coming from you and I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Karma to you and the rest of the guys that responded.