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Controlling your cholesterol during a cycle.....everybody should follow this

Fonz

"Q"
Platinum
When on cycle, your cholesterol levels tend to rise dramatically to > 200, your HDL drops to about 10-20, and your LDL increases to 150-200.

Well, there's one supplement out there that can remedy that.
Its one of the things I have been researching for the past 4 months. I posted this at AF already, but I'll post it here as well.

Its called policosanol. Its not expensive at all, and works better than any prescription cholesterol lowering drug with no side effects whatsoever.

This is just a brief description:

Policosanol is a natural supplement derived from sugar cane. The main ingredient is octacosanol. Octacosanol is an alcohol found in the waxy film that plants have over their leaves and fruit. The leaves and rinds of citrus fruits contain octacosanol, and so does wheat germ oil.

[Very important section]

Policosanol has been shown to normalize cholesterol as well or better than cholesterol-lowering drugs, without side effects such as liver dysfunction and muscle atrophy.1 Efficacy and safety have been proven in numerous clinical trials, and it has been used by millions of people in other countries. Policosanol lowers harmful LDL-cholesterol and raises protective HDL-cholesterol. HDL-cholesterol removes plaque from arterial walls.

[As you can see above, it sounds really, really good]

Policosanol helps stop the formation of artery lesions too, an effect similar to that of statin drugs. This was proven in studies on rabbits fed a diet designed to create high cholesterol. According to researchers “in most policosanol-treated animals, atherosclerotic lesions were not present, and in others, thickness of fatty streaks had less foam cell layers than in controls.,3

Policosanol also inhibits the oxidation of dangerous LDL-cholesterol4 which promotes the destruction of blood vessels by creating a chronic inflammatory response. Oxidized LDL can also provoke metalloproteinase enzymes.5 These enzymes promote blood vessel destruction, partly by interfering with HDL’s protective effect. Studies show that rats treated with policosanol have fewer foam cells, reflecting less inflammatory response causing less blood vessel destruction.6,7

Healthy arteries are lined with a smooth layer of cells so that blood can race through with no resistance. One of the features of diseased arteries is that this layer becomes thick and overgrown with cells. As the artery narrows, blood flow slows down or is blocked completely. Policosanol can stop the proliferation of these cells in much the same was as lipid-lowering drugs.8,9

Policosanol also inhibits the formation of clots, and may work synergistically with aspirin in this respect. In a comparison of aspirin and policosanol, aspirin was better at reducing one type of platelet aggregation (clumping together of blood cells). But policosanol was better at inhibiting another type. Together, policosanol and aspirin worked better than either alone.10,11

Thromboxane is a blood vessel-constricting agent that contributes to abnormal platelet aggregation that can cause a heart attack or stroke. Significant reductions in the level of thromboxane occur in humans after two weeks of policosanol.12

[This section probaby describes ever single person on AAS)

People with elevated LDL-cholesterol (over 100) or low HDL-cholesterol (under 50) should seek to protect themselves from the potentially fatal effects of cardiovascular disease. Some people can achieve optimal cholesterol levels via dietary modification, while others require intervention with dietary supplements like policosanol or prescription drugs.

Some people will not achieve adequate results with policosanol or FDA-approved cholesterol-lowering drugs. That is why it is so important to have your blood tested when using policosanol (or FDA-approved drugs). Some people will only require 5 mg to 10 mg a day of policosanol, while others may need 20 mg/day. The same dosage variation may be true of cholesterol-lowering drugs.

A standard blood chemistry profile measures total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, HDL-cholesterol and numerous other parameters such as liver and kidney function. By taking this blood test two months after beginning policosanol, you can adjust the dose to meet your individual need. This standard blood chemistry test can be done at your doctor's office or you can order it directly by going here.



Ok....so thats the concise version of what policosanol does...but then you need proof that it works. Thats where experimentation comes in...i.e. Real life blood tests using policosanol while on AAS.

My results:

May 21st, 2003(On Fina and test)

Total Cholesterol: 236
HDL: 10
LDL: 199

Added policosanol(40mg/day.....Higher than recommended but I wanted to see if it would have an immediate effect)+other stuff(But I have eliminated the other stuff through trial and error and observed the effect was minimal. The main cholesterol lowering effect was through policosanol)

Aug.12th, 2003(Still on Fina and test + masteron)

Total Cholesterol: 134
HDL:19
LDL: 96


Changes over the 2-month period:


Total Chol Change: 236-134 = 102/236 = 43% reduction
HDL Change:10-19 = 9/10 = 90% increase
LDL Change:199-96 = 103/199 = 51.76% reduction


Quite amazing huh?

It sure surprised me. Not only does policosanol do what its supposed to do on paper, but it does it in vivo, and has ZERO side-effects. Yep. ZERO.

Beats all the prescription chol lowering drugs like Lipitor etc.. hands down. And to boot, is quite cheap.

This is one suplement EVERYBODY on AAS should be using. SPECIALLY the people doing longer cycles.

Fonz
 
HighIntensity said:
wheres the best place to get it fonz. thanks

BAC has it in powder form. I think its $9.50 for about 60 20mg doses. But you have to cap it.

If you don't like capping it, Vitamin Shoppe has it for about $11 for 60 10mg tabs.

I've used both, and they both work just as well. I just got the tabs because I get sick of capping stuff every now and then. :)

Fonz
 
Fonz, thank you very much for posting this. I was embrassed to say that the reason I did not follow up on your private e-mail about herbs for treating this was that I could not afford it. I just bought two bottles at Vitamin Shoppe. Hope it helps - it is already coming down. Thanks!
 
alanchiras said:
Fonz, thank you very much for posting this. I was embrassed to say that the reason I did not follow up on your private e-mail about herbs for treating this was that I could not afford it. I just bought two bottles at Vitamin Shoppe. Hope it helps - it is already coming down. Thanks!

No worries.

Hope it helps you out.

Fonz
 
pharmguy said:
Only problem with a lot of these things that lwoer cholesterol is they prevent lipolysis :(

I got pretty shredded while on Policosanol. :)

Fonz
 
your the man!!! I just had had mine checked... I am on a50,test and my total was 200 and I am only 21. They gave me lipitor but this is a better alternative.

Great research
E
 
Hey Fonz, are your liver values high when your cholestorol is high? The reason I ask is because I recently had high liver and cholestorol values after bloodwork and Doc said cholestorol was high because my liver values were high.

If he is correct, then it would seem to me we should be focusing on the liver. Please let me know how your liver looked? If you say liver values were normal, then I guess I will need to get me some policosanol for my heart as well;)

-ALA/Milk Thistle for liver
-Saw Palmetto/Propecia for prostate
-Policosanol for the heart
 
Fonz, this does look like a very promising supplement. Funny the first time I heard of it was just a few weeks ago when the guy at Kilosports said he was goiing to throw in a bottle of it because they were late on filling my order.

On a side note, you had mentioned you were taking nattokinase. I believe this has some effects on cholestrol as well as and dissolves blood clots. Are you still using it? Do you feel that it still worthwhile to take. Exactly what were the reasons you were taking it?
 
buckwheat1 said:
Fonz, this does look like a very promising supplement. Funny the first time I heard of it was just a few weeks ago when the guy at Kilosports said he was goiing to throw in a bottle of it because they were late on filling my order.

On a side note, you had mentioned you were taking nattokinase. I believe this has some effects on cholestrol as well as and dissolves blood clots. Are you still using it? Do you feel that it still worthwhile to take. Exactly what were the reasons you were taking it?

I'm using Natto, seems promising.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Fascinating.

The same information can be found here www.hnherbs.com

I concede to you Fonz. Your scientific expetise is unquestionable.

Karma to you!

:rolleyes:

Yeah, and the same info can be found on medline and pubmed. So what's your point?

Every Calculus book has a section on Limits, so what? It's information.
 
great, just what I needed, another fuckin pill to take. Between the glucosamine, glutamine, tyler liverdetox, multi, ginger, dbol, flax, fiber pills, I feel like I should be counting my pill sessions as if it's an official meal.
i'll order some up and then arrange to get my cholesterol tested. Should I just go through my insurance and ask my doc for a cholesterol test? and nothing else? I would prefer not to take any tests that would suggest I am on gear. Where else could I have my cholesterol tested?
 
Nelson Montana said:
Fascinating.

The same information can be found here www.hnherbs.com

I concede to you Fonz. Your scientific expetise is unquestionable.

Karma to you!


I guess my blood tests can also be found somewhere right?

LOL

Nelson, if you have nothing to add to a post don't bother speaking.

I did not delete your response, because I wanted people to see just how truly despicable a person you really are.

Fonz
 
Fonz, thanks for sharing your blood work with us!

You can read shit all the time, but without some real world experience, it is hard to get interested. Iam going to order some ASAP.

Nelson, stop being a baby. You are the "old guy" and I have never seen you post anything that directly addresses a serious issue like this. But is is more your style to be condesending.

When I get my next round of blood work, Ill post my results and we can see if the results Fonz is getting are the norm.

Karma Fonz
 
This post is amazing!!....finally some proven advice for all of us regarding cholesterol levels...Thanks a lot bro!!
Karma for you!!...
 
Fonz,

Great article and info. Here is my major concern. While you decreased your total cholesterol levels, your LDL:HDL ratio remains dangerously high. As we all know by now, the LDL:HDL ratio is the most important statistic indicating potential cardiovascular problems related to the lipid profile. The normal ratio is 3 or less. Your initial ratio is 199:10 or 19.9--dangerously high. After using policosanol, your ratio became 96:19 or 5.05. This is still too high. The best way to combat poor lipid profiles caused by excessive AAS intake is to: 1) lower your AAS dosing to a point where the LDL:HDL ratio is normal (for most people, this level is somewhere between 400-600mg AAS weekly); 2) alter your diet to high protein, moderate "clean" carbs, and low "clean" fat. There is a third option and that is to take Glucophage to allow more efficient use of glucose. Glucose that doesn't end up in the muscle tissue ends up in adipose tissue or in the cholesterol cycle. This last option doesn't work for everyone.
 
DrJMW said:
Fonz,

Great article and info. Here is my major concern. While you decreased your total cholesterol levels, your LDL:HDL ratio remains dangerously high. As we all know by now, the LDL:HDL ratio is the most important statistic indicating potential cardiovascular problems related to the lipid profile. The normal ratio is 3 or less. Your initial ratio is 199:10 or 19.9--dangerously high. After using policosanol, your ratio became 96:19 or 5.05. This is still too high. The best way to combat poor lipid profiles caused by excessive AAS intake is to: 1) lower your AAS dosing to a point where the LDL:HDL ratio is normal (for most people, this level is somewhere between 400-600mg AAS weekly); 2) alter your diet to high protein, moderate "clean" carbs, and low "clean" fat. There is a third option and that is to take Glucophage to allow more efficient use of glucose. Glucose that doesn't end up in the muscle tissue ends up in adipose tissue or in the cholesterol cycle. This last option doesn't work for everyone.

I'm researching an HDL increasing supplement as we speak(This however will take some time). I don't exceed 1000mg AAS/week btw. No need. With the addition of nutrient partioning agents, you can drastically increase the effects of AAS w/o any side effects. I do however use Garlic in order to off-set the low HDL.
Also, it will be interesting to see my blood test results in December. 7 months after starting policosanol. Could be that its HDL increasing effect takes longer than its LDL decreasing one.
But until I get the results back, thats pure speculation on my part.
I'll bump this post in Dec and post up the new blood test for comparison.

E23: For triglycerides 600-1000mg R-ALA/day with 10mg Novaldex/day works remarkably well.

Fonz
 
Great post Fonz

one question - is capping absolutely needed? most of my BAC stuff I just measure into a protein drink and mix that way, sure tastes a little strong (herbals like avena, maca, trib) but still bearable, and beats capping
 
Anyone try "Red Yeast Rice" for this? Very knowledgeable guy at Vitamin Shoppe claims it is much better than Policosanol for lowering effects! I went in there asking for Policosanol, but he is 110% convonced that the "Red Yeast Rice" is much better!

Anyone have any experince with it, please let us know?
 
tomp said:
Anyone try "Red Yeast Rice" for this? Very knowledgeable guy at Vitamin Shoppe claims it is much better than Policosanol for lowering effects! I went in there asking for Policosanol, but he is 110% convonced that the "Red Yeast Rice" is much better!

Anyone have any experince with it, please let us know?

Total farce. Does nothing while on AAS. Also Beta-statin(From the statin class of drugs), does show some chol improvement but is hepatoxic.

And E23: Synthetic Guggulsterones are hypolipidemic as well. They will lower triglyceride levels.

Fonz
 
Great post Fonz and just in time for me. My doctor has been trying to get me to start Lipitor which I've been trying to avoid. Just had my blood work done and it was normal for me (same as it was 20 years ago) LDL:159 and HDL:69. Anyway, I picked up a bottle of policosanol at the drug store and am starting at 20mg/day.

Karma for some great advise.
 
Fonz, how long were you on AAS for these tests?

I know you tend to stay on for very long times, so wouldn't someone on normal length cycles (10-12 wk) see even better HDL:LDL ratios?

Or do lipids quickly hit unfavorable ratios even while on relatively short cycles?

Either way, this looks like a great supp which addresses a side effect that way too many people ignore.
 
DeepZenPill said:
Fonz, how long were you on AAS for these tests?

I know you tend to stay on for very long times, so wouldn't someone on normal length cycles (10-12 wk) see even better HDL:LDL ratios?

Or do lipids quickly hit unfavorable ratios even while on relatively short cycles?

Either way, this looks like a great supp which addresses a side effect that way too many people ignore.

I had been on for about 2 years. :)

And you're most likely correct in your assumption that somebody who does a normal 10-12 week cycle of AAS would see an even better HDL:LDL ratio. In this case though, I'd use 40mg/day of policosanol, just to see the effect faster. As its not toxic, there isn't a problem with the dosage.

Lipids = triglycerides?(I'll assume thats what you meant)

10mg Novaldex will improve your lipid profile to acceptable levels.
R-ALA and both Synthetic and normal Guggulsterones are also great for this. Normal Guggulsterones also have the added benefit of being probably the best OTC anti-acneic medication out there.

Btw,

My triglyceride levels (May 21st,2003) were : 87
and 2 months after that (Aug.12th,2003) they were: 95

Well within normal parameters.

Fonz
 
Fonz, would it be best to use the Policosanol while on-cycle and the "Red Yeast Rice" while off-cycle or just use the Policosanol all the time. Sorry, for asking but I am not always on-cycle;)

Fonz said:


Total farce. Does nothing while on AAS. Also Beta-statin(From the statin class of drugs), does show some chol improvement but is hepatoxic.

And E23: Synthetic Guggulsterones are hypolipidemic as well. They will lower triglyceride levels.

Fonz
 
Fonz, I have a quqqqestion for you: Are you concerned with having a total cholesterol level which is TOO LOW?

It looks like the Policosanol did do the job, but maybe too well. I heve been researching "low cholesterol" and 134 seems to be low enough to cause other problems which are as bad as chlosterol being to high??

What to you think? Iam already taking the stuff but now Iam concerned that it may lower total Chlosertol TOO MUCH?

Your input is appreciated. thanks Bro!
 
Which one should I buy???

Cardiovascular Support Policosanol (10 MG)
VS-1850 Vitamin Shoppe 60 Tablets $16.95
$10.17
40% Off
Policosanol Policosanol (10 MG)
SR-1103 Source Naturals, Inc. 60 Tablets $18.50
$13.88
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Policosanol (10 MG)
SR-1153 Source Naturals, Inc. 120 Tablets $34.97
$26.24
25% Off
Miscellaneous Product Policosanol Cholesterol
SR-1123 Source Naturals, Inc. 90 Tablets $34.97
$26.24
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Policosanol Cholesterol Complex
SR-1124 Source Naturals, Inc. 60 Tablets $24.50
$18.38
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Policosanol W/ Coq10(N)
SR-7311 Source Naturals, Inc. 120 Tablets $44.98
$33.74
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Benecardia W Policosanol
NO-1564 Natrol Inc. 60 Tablets $29.99
$20.99
30% Off
Policosanol Policosanol (N)
CV-7064 Cardiovascular Research 60 Veggie Caps $18.95
$15.16
20% Off
Policosanol Policosanol W/ C (N)
SR-7265 Source Naturals, Inc. 60 Tablets $24.50
$18.38
25% Off
Policosanol Policosanol (N) (10 MG)
SR-7244 Source Naturals, Inc. 30 Tablets $9.98
$7.49
25% Off
 
bicepts101 said:
good question

i saw all the options and i thought the same thing

Yeah, my cholesterol levels are fucked so I want to make sure I buy the right brand of this stuff. There's like 12 different fucking options. Which one???
 
Juice Authority said:


Yeah, my cholesterol levels are fucked so I want to make sure I buy the right brand of this stuff. There's like 12 different fucking options. Which one???

LOL i know
 
Juice Authority said:
Which one should I buy???

Cardiovascular Support Policosanol (10 MG)
VS-1850 Vitamin Shoppe 60 Tablets $16.95
$10.17
40% Off
Policosanol Policosanol (10 MG)
SR-1103 Source Naturals, Inc. 60 Tablets $18.50
$13.88
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Policosanol (10 MG)
SR-1153 Source Naturals, Inc. 120 Tablets $34.97
$26.24
25% Off
Miscellaneous Product Policosanol Cholesterol
SR-1123 Source Naturals, Inc. 90 Tablets $34.97
$26.24
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Policosanol Cholesterol Complex
SR-1124 Source Naturals, Inc. 60 Tablets $24.50
$18.38
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Policosanol W/ Coq10(N)
SR-7311 Source Naturals, Inc. 120 Tablets $44.98
$33.74
25% Off
Cardiovascular Support Benecardia W Policosanol
NO-1564 Natrol Inc. 60 Tablets $29.99
$20.99
30% Off
Policosanol Policosanol (N)
CV-7064 Cardiovascular Research 60 Veggie Caps $18.95
$15.16
20% Off
Policosanol Policosanol W/ C (N)
SR-7265 Source Naturals, Inc. 60 Tablets $24.50
$18.38
25% Off
Policosanol Policosanol (N) (10 MG)
SR-7244 Source Naturals, Inc. 30 Tablets $9.98
$7.49
25% Off

This one:

Cardiovascular Support Policosanol (10 MG)
VS-1850 Vitamin Shoppe 60 Tablets $16.95
$10.17
40% Off

Fonz
 
Fonz said:


This one:

Cardiovascular Support Policosanol (10 MG)
VS-1850 Vitamin Shoppe 60 Tablets $16.95
$10.17
40% Off

Fonz

I just ordered 4 bottles. Hopefully that does along with your other cocktail.
 
HOw the fuck do you pronounce this word?
is it POLY-COS-IN-OL ?

Sorry for the ignorant question, but I hade sounding like an idiot.
 
Fonz has a lipid profile cocktail that he made for me, which he caps himself. The results have been outstanding so far as far for other people. I intend to to do that along this new product. Hopefully my HDL will get out of the single digits. Last time it was checked it was 9!
 
odds and ends

Fonz said:


I'm researching an HDL increasing supplement as we speak(This however will take some time).
Fonz

Niacin (vitamin B3) is the strongest thing so far to raise HDL. But it can also raise liver values and decrease insulin sensitivity. Someone mentioned getting red and blotchy (called the "niacin flush"). This can be avoided by taking a form known as "Inositol hexaniacinate". This is also the safest form of the vitamin. The most dangerous is "time released niacin" - which accounts for most liver disturbances. In all of recorded time only one death has occured from a "Vitamin" - and that is from niacin. A mentally unbalanced individual took excessive doses of straight niacin and suffered liver failure in 1984 - he was trying to get a niacin flush for some reason and liked it.

There have been some herbal deaths such as those linked to Ephedra, and some deaths from eosinophilia myalgia syndrome (EMS) due to contaminated tryptophan (it was not the tryptophan but a contaminant that the company Shaw Denko knew about but sold it anyway) - but only one single ever in history person to die from vitamins and it was niacin.

Someone asked about Nattokinase - it can be purchased at Nutricology 1800-545-9960. But I think bromelain does everything it does and less expensively - natto is mostly hype. Proteolytic enzymes act as fibrinolases or rather have fibrinolytic activity.

Someone also mentioned that their doctor said that the liver is the key to healthy cholesterol levels - truer words were never spoken. You could drink an 8 ounce tumbler of cholesterol and not significantly alter your blood cholesterol levels (trans fatty acid consumption is a different story). This is because roughly 80% of your blood cholesterol comes from direct liver production - this is why a vegetartian can have high cholesterol even though they do not eat anything with cholesterol. Cal-D-Gluc and n-acetyl cysteine are very important liver adjuncts. Over 25 studies were been done on the eskimos, who lived predominantly on about a pound of raw whale blubber up until the last few decades (when fast food invaded their area)- their cholesterol was low normal ranges despite the high animal fat diet.

It is pronounced Poly-koe-sin-all.

Cholesterol apparently can get too low. Cholesterol is needed to make up healthy membranes and form hormones. Japanese have as many strokes as we do, but they tend to be the hemorrhagic type (bleeders) as opposed to people in the USA that tend to have obstructive strokes (clogged up). High cholesterol tends to clog the tubes up, whereas excessively low cholesterol tends to weaken the menbranes forming the walls of arteries leading to easy ruptures - hemorrhages.

Anti-aromatases tend to elevate cholesterol to a great degree, so maybe tamoxifen is a better choice - although older drug.

Studies have shown a dramatic improvement on the average between 10 and 20 mg /day but nothing significant between 20 and 40 mg/day.

The only vitamin company I will take vitamins from over the long run is Pure Encapsulations. Every single batch of every single vitamin is tested by one of seven outside labs. Not a batch per year, but every single batch is tested and they publish the results. I would not trust them if they used an inside lab to test the product, or even just one lab. But they use 7 different outside labs unnaffiliated with the company. However Pure Encapsulations only sell to physicians. I know of 2 studies in which they took samples of vitamins and herbs from up to 10 different companies and sent them to the lab for analysis - most (in one study 7 of the 10) came back as being tremendously underdosed. There is no regulation of vitamin companys so they can skimp and cheat on their products to save money. That is why I only trust a company like Pure Encapsulations to buy from as they extensively test their products and publish the test results.
 
Last edited:
Re: odds and ends

Generic MALE said:


Niacin (vitamin B3) is the strongest thing so far to raise HDL. But it can also raise liver values and decrease insulin sensitivity. Someone mentioned getting red and blotchy (called the "niacin flush"). This can be avoided by taking a form known as "Inositol hexaniacinate". This is also the safest form of the vitamin. The most dangerous is "time released niacin" - which accounts for most liver disturbances. In all of recorded time only one death has occured from a "Vitamin" - and that is from niacin. A mentally unbalanced individual took excessive doses of straight niacin and suffered liver failure in 1984 - he was trying to get a niacin flush for some reason and liked it.

There have been some herbal deaths such as those linked to Ephedra, and some deaths from eosinophilia myalgia syndrome (EMS) due to contaminated tryptophan (it was not the tryptophan but a contaminant that the company Shaw Denko knew about but sold it anyway) - but only one single ever in history person to die from vitamins and it was niacin.

Someone asked about Nattokinase - it can be purchased at Nutricology 1800-545-9960. But I think bromelain does everything it does and less expensively - natto is mostly hype. Proteolytic enzymes act as fibronolases.

Someone also mentioned that their doctor said that the liver is the key to healthy cholesterol levels - truer words were never spoken. You could drink an 8 ounce tumbler of cholesterol and not significantly alter your blood cholesterol levels (trans fatty acid consumption is a different story). This is because roughly 80% of your blood cholesterol comes from direct liver production - this is why a vegetartian can have high cholesterol even though they do not eat anything with cholesterol. Cal-D-Gluc and n-acetyl cysteine are very important liver adjuncts. Over 25 studies were been done on the eskimos, who lived predominantly on about a pound of raw whale blubber up until the last few decades (when fast food invaded their area)- their cholesterol was low normal ranges despite the high animal fat diet.

It is pronounced Poly-koe-sin-all.

Cholesterol apparently can get too low. Cholesterol is needed to make up healthy membranes and form hormones. Japanese have as many strokes as we do, but they tend to be the hemorrhagic type (bleeders) as opposed to people in the USA that tend to have obstructive strokes (clogged up). High cholesterol tends to clog the tubes up, whereas excessively low cholesterol tends to weaken the menbranes forming the walls of arteries leading to easy ruptures - hemorrhages.

Anti-aromatases tend to elevate cholesterol to a great degree, so maybe tamoxifen is a better choice - although older drug.

Studies have shown a dramatic improvement on the average between 10 and 20 mg /day but nothing significant between 20 and 40 mg/day.

Great post. Thanks for the insight.
 
Re: Re: Re: odds and ends

Generic MALE said:


Garsh..shucks.**blush** I edited it and added a few other things.

I'm taking B-12 injection on a daily basis. Will that help lower Cholesterol levels?
 
One last thing - cholesterol production is diurnal - meaning most of our cholesterol production is at night. This is because it is used to make hormones - which drop in the evening and peak in the morning. We produce cholesterol at night so we can make testosterone in the morning.

So if you take cholesterol products once a day it is best to take them at dinner (in the late evening) so as to influence the production of cholesterol. This is conjecture but I also think it stands to reason to avoid eating the "bad" foods (trans saturated fats) like fried foods at night, and if you must eat them - eat those deep fried onion rings with breakfast or lunch.

Fiber works to prevent the reabsorption of cholesterol. A good deal of cholesterol is released by the gallbladder in the form of bile which is then eliminated in the stool. If you have a low fiber diet the cholesterol can be reabsorbed by the intestines (small). Fiber soaks up the cholesterol and takes it out in the stool.
 
Generic MALE said:
One last thing - cholesterol production is diurnal - meaning most of our cholesterol production is at night. This is because it is used to make hormones - which drop in the evening and peak in the morning. We produce cholesterol at night so we can make testosterone in the morning.

So if you take cholesterol products once a day it is best to take them at dinner (in the late evening) so as to influence the production of cholesterol. This is conjecture but I also think it stands to reason to avoid eating the "bad" foods like fried foods at night, and if you must eat them - eat those deep fried onion rings with breakfast or lunch.

Fiber works to prevent the reabsorption of cholesterol. A good deal of cholesterol is released by the gallbladder in the form of bile which is then eliminated in the stool. If you have a low fiber diet the cholesterol can be reabsorbed by the intestines (small). Fiber soaks up the cholesterol and takes it out in the stool.


Can you answer the question about the B-12 injections. Thanks.
 
I don't think B-12 influences cholesterol but I could be wrong. I did not answer it because I really don't know for sure. I can't remember anything that would indicate it would help with dyslipidemia - I love that word. Dyslipidemia - bad lipid/fat production.

Maybe Fonz knows for sure. I will look and see if I can find anything on B12 and chol.
 
I looked at 4 abstracts. I don't like abstracts that much in some ways because you cannot evaluate the results for yourself, but have to take someone elses word for what the test proved - sine essentially only the conclusion is shown. I also love abstracts in that it cuts down on reading time. Anyway I could not find anything linking B12 to cholesterol although some try to link it to heart disease via homocysteine. This is one study although I am doubtful of the conclusion since it also states low folate levels do not cause hypermonocysteine- when I think every other study shows that the ONLY way to treat high homocysteine is with folic acid. Sorry I don't have a good answer for you
\===============

Eur J Vasc Endovasc Surg. 2003 Nov;26(5):558-61.

The incidence of hyperhomocysteinaemia in vascular patients.

Spark Ji J, Laws P, Fitridge R.

Department of Surgery, Queen Elizabeth Hospital, University of Adelaide, Woodville 5011, Adelaide, Australia.

Introduction. Hyperhomocysteinaemia has recently been identified as an important risk factor for atherosclerotic vascular disease. Screening for hyperhomocysteinaemia has been recommended, however, the incidence of hyperhomocysteinaemia in vascular patients is not known. Aims. To determine the incidence of hyperhomocysteinaemia in vascular patients, to determine the relation of hyperhomocysteinaemia with folate, vitamin B(12) levels and lipid profiles in vascular patients. To examine if there is a relationship between the degree of vascular injury and homocysteine concentration. Methods. New vascular patients at The Queen Elizabeth Hospital were recruited and divided into peripheral, and aneurysmal presentations. Patients demographics were recorded, blood samples were taken for fasting lipid profile, and homocysteine concentration. Samples were also taken for vitamin B(12), plasma and red cell folate levels. Sixty age and sex matched controls were included for comparison. Results. One hundred and twenty-six patients have been recruited, (95 men and 31 women) with a median age of 68 years (61-74 years). The incidence of elevated homocysteine, and cholesterol levels was 33, 47 and 24%. The levels of vitamin B(12) and folate were normal in all patients. Homocysteine was elevated in 27% of claudicants, 50% of patients with rest pain and 53% of patients with an aortic aneurysm. Conclusion. There is a high rate of hyperhomocysteinaemia in vascular patients with a higher incidence in patients with rest pain. There was also a high incidence of elevated homocysteine levels in patients with an abdominal aortic aneurysm. The rate of growth of these aneurysms is currently under review. Low folate or B(12) concentrations is not the cause of raised homocysteine levels.
 
Thanks again! Karma is headed your way as soon as I'm reloaded.
 
Generic MALE said:
I don't think B-12 influences cholesterol but I could be wrong. I did not answer it because I really don't know for sure. I can't remember anything that would indicate it would help with dyslipidemia - I love that word. Dyslipidemia - bad lipid/fat production.

Maybe Fonz knows for sure. I will look and see if I can find anything on B12 and chol.

B12 doesn't do much for cholesterol.

A good thing to do is to take is 12.5mcg T3/day. T3 increases the rate at which cholesterol clearing enzymes are produced. Therefore taking 12.5mcgs/day will reduce your total cholesterol levels by a small margin.

Fonz
 
Generic MALE said:
Fonz, good post. Policosanol rocks and you did a good job of bringing it to everyone attention with credibility

So does Fonz's lipid profile cocktail for high Chlosteral. It also raises HLD levels and lowers LDL levels.
 
did some tren and winny in 03 got tested and was high 291.

No juice since i get a test and its 235 with a 47 hdl triglycerides like 90 not bad

so needless to say coming from a 150 - 180 range in the past Im not happy.

Did 2cc durateston the day after the test I thought the results would come back fine.

Now that I have started I would like to add back some ip tren/prop or just some tren with a sus base,

Im nervous

forgot to mention I lost 35 lbs in the last 10 weeks I was pretty fat.

started guglesterones polycosinal high amounts of fish oils red yeast rice beta sitosterol couple other things I hope will help get me back down.

any advice?
 
detroitbodybuildertigers said:
why? what else do you want to know?



very good post and this can save ppl from alot of problems... i read this and learned alot

glad he bumped it



BUMP

^^
 
Health benefits
September 8, 2004, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration gave "qualified health claim" status to eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) ω−3 fatty acids, stating that "supportive but not conclusive research shows that consumption of EPA and DHA ω−3 fatty acids may reduce the risk of coronary heart disease."[2] This updated and modified their health risk advice letter of 2001 (see below).

People with certain circulatory problems, such as varicose veins, benefit from fish oil. Fish oil stimulates blood circulation, increases the breakdown of fibrin, a compound involved in clot and scar formation, and additionally has been shown to reduce blood pressure.[3][4] There is strong scientific evidence, that ω−3 fatty acids significantly reduce blood triglyceride levels[5][6][7][8] and regular intake reduces the risk of secondary and primary heart attack.[9][10][11][12]

Some benefits have been reported in conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis[13][14] and cardiac arrhythmias.[15][16][17]

There is a promising preliminary evidence, that ω−3 fatty acids supplementation might be helpful in cases of depression[18][19] and anxiety.[20][21] Studies report highly significant improvement from ω−3 fatty acids supplementation alone and in conjunction with medication.[22]

Some research suggests that fish oil intake may reduce the risk of ischemic and thrombotic stroke.[23][24][25] However, very large amounts may actually increase the risk of hemorrhagic stroke (see below). Lower amounts are not related to this risk.[26] 3 grams of total EPA/DHA daily are considered safe with no increased risk of bleeding involved[27] and many studies used substantially higher doses without major side effects (for example: 4.4 grams EPA/2.2 grams DHA in 2003 study).[28]

Several studies report possible anti-cancer effects of ω−3 fatty acids (particularly breast, colon and prostate cancer).[29][30][31] No clear conclusion can be drawn at this time, however.

A 2006 report in the Journal of the American Medical Association concluded that their review of literature covering cohorts from many countries with a wide variety of demographic characteristics demonstrating a link between ω−3 fatty acids and cancer prevention gave mixed results.[32] This is similar to the findings of a review by the British Medical Journal of studies up to February 2002 that failed to find clear effects of long and shorter chain ω−3 fats on total mortality, combined cardiovascular events and cancer.[33]

In 1999, the GISSI-Prevenzione Investigators reported in the Lancet, the results of major clinical study in 11,324 patients with a recent myocardial infarction. Treatment with omega-3 fatty acids 1 g/d reduced the occurrence of death, cardiovascular death and sudden cardiac death by 20%, 30% and 45% respectively. [34] These beneficial effects were seen already from three months onwards.[35]

In April 2006, a team led by Lee Hooper at the University of East Anglia in Norwich, UK, published a review of almost 100 separate studies into ω−3 fatty acids, found in abundance in oily fish. It concluded that they do not have a significant protective effect against cardiovascular disease.[36] This meta-analysis was controversial and stands in stark contrast with two different reviews also performed in 2006 by the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition[37] and a second JAMA review[38] that both indicated decreases in total mortality and cardiovascular incidents (i.e. myocardial infarctions) associated with the regular consumption of fish and fish oil supplements. In addition ω−3 has shown to aid in other mental disorders such as aggression and ADHD (Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder).[citation needed]

Several studies published in 2007 have been more positive. In the March 2007 edition of the journal Atherosclerosis, 81 Japanese men with unhealthy blood sugar levels were randomly assigned to receive 1800 mg daily of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA - an ω−3 essential fatty acid from fish oil) with the other half being a control group. The thickness of the carotid arteries and certain measures of blood flow were measured before and after supplementation. This went on for approximately two years. A total of 60 patients (30 in the EPA group and 30 in the control group) completed the study. Those given the EPA had a statistically significant decrease in the thickness of the carotid arteries along with improvement in blood flow. The authors indicated that this was the first demonstration that administration of purified EPA improves the thickness of carotid arteries along with improving blood flow in patients with unhealthy blood sugar levels.[citation needed]

In another study published in the American Journal of Health System Pharmacy March 2007, patients with high triglycerides and poor coronary artery health were given 4 grams a day of a combination of EPA and DHA along with some monounsaturated fatty acids. Those patients with very unhealthy triglyceride levels (above 500 mg/dl) reduced their triglycerides on average 45% and their VLDL cholesterol by more than 50%. VLDL is a bad type of cholesterol and elevated triglycerides can also be deleterious for cardiovascular health.[citation needed]

There was another study published on the benefits of EPA in The Lancet in March 2007. This study involved over 18,000 patients with unhealthy cholesterol levels. The patients were randomly assigned to receive either 1,800 mg a day of EPA with a statin drug or a statin drug alone. The trial went on for a total of five years. It was found at the end of the study those patients in the EPA group had superior cardiovascular function. Non-fatal coronary events were also significantly reduced in the EPA group. The authors concluded that EPA is a promising treatment for prevention of major coronary events,especially non-fatal coronary events.[39]

Another study regarding fish oil was published in the journal Nutrition in April 2007. Sixty four healthy Danish infants received either cow's milk or infant formula alone or with fish oil from nine to twelve months of age. It was found that those infants supplemented with fish oil had improvement in immune function maturation with no apparent reduction in immune activation.[citation needed]

There was yet another study on ω−3 fatty acids published in the April 2007 Journal of NeuroScience. A group of mice were genetically modified to develop accumulation of amyloid and tau proteins in the brain similar to that seen in people with poor memory. The mice were divided into four groups with one group receiving a typical American diet (with high ratio of ω−6 to ω−3 fatty acids being 10 to 1). The other three groups were given food with a balanced 1 to 1 ω−6 to ω−3 ratio and two additional groups supplemented with DHA plus long chain ω−6 fatty acids. After three months of feeding, all the DHA supplemented groups were noted to have a lower accumulation of beta amyloid and tau protein. It is felt that these abnormal proteins may contribute to the development of memory loss in later years.[citation needed]

There is also a study published regarding ω−3 supplementation in children with learning and behavioral problems. This study was published in the April 2007 edition of the Journal of the Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics (5), where 132 children, between the ages of seven to twelve years old, with poor learning, participated in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded interventional trial. A total of 104 children completed the trial. For the first fifteen weeks of this study, the children were given polyunsaturated fatty acids (ω−3 and ω−6, 3000 mg a day), polyunsaturated fatty acids plus multi-vitamins and minerals or placebo. After fifteen weeks, all groups crossed over to the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) plus vitamins and mineral supplement. Parents were asked to rate their children's condition after fifteen and thirty weeks. After thirty weeks, parental ratings of behavior improved significantly in nine out of fourteen scales. The lead author of the study, Dr. Sinn, indicated the present study is the largest PUFA trial to date with children falling in the poor learning and focus range. The results support those of other studies that have found improvement in poor developmental health with essential fatty acid supplementation. [40] [41][42] [43] [44] [45]

Research in 2005 and 2006 has suggested that the in-vitro anti-inflammatory activity of ω−3 acids translates into clinical benefits. Cohorts of neck pain patients and of rheumatoid arthritis sufferers have demonstrated benefits comparable to those receiving standard NSAIDs[citation needed]. Those who follow a Mediterranean-style diet tend to have less heart disease, higher HDL ("good") cholesterol levels [46] and higher proportions of ω−3 in tissue highly unsaturated fatty acids [47]. Similar to those who follow a Mediterranean diet, Arctic-dwelling Inuit - who consume high amounts of ω−3 fatty acids from fatty fish - also tend to have higher proportions of ω−3, increased HDL cholesterol and decreased triglycerides (fatty material that circulates in the blood) and less heart disease. Eating walnuts (the ratio of ω−3 to ω−6 is circa 1:4 respectively [48] [49] ) was reported to lower total cholesterol by 4% relative to controls when people also ate 27% less cholesterol.[50]

A study carried out involving 465 women showed serum levels of eicosapentaenoic acid is inversely related to the levels of anti-oxidized-LDL antibodies. Oxidative modification of LDL is thought to play an important role in the development of atherosclerosis
 
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