Clebuterol/Winstrol

[marybrown13]

Hi everyone- I am new here and just wanted to get some opinions form some ladies who are more experienced than me. I have done alot of research on different things and recently decided to start taking winstrol and clenbuterol. The clen I'm not nervous about- just looking forward to seeing it's results. But the win I'm nervous about and keep second guessing. There are so many people out there who say women should never take it but then just as many who say it's fine. Just looking for someone who maybe has done it or knows ladies who have- I keep thinking I should stop but I don't want to in case it would end up doing me alot of good. I have been taking it for 2 weeks now. Thanks for any advice I might receive.

 

[Tatyana]

Hi and welcome,

Would we be able to get a bit more information first?

Things like age, weight, height, bodyfat, amount of time training, type of training, goals, help with advice.

It is also not clear in your post what you are taking, clen and winstrol or just clen?

 

[marybrown13]

Hi and welcome,

Would we be able to get a bit more information first?

Things like age, weight, height, bodyfat, amount of time training, type of training, goals, help with advice.

It is also not clear in your post what you are taking, Clenbuterol and winstrol or just Clenbuterol?

Thanks for responding! I am 28, 150 pounds, 5'6", 27% body fat.

I have only been training for about 2 months. I work out 4 times per week. I was doing 30 min strength training and 30 min cardio each time I worked out. But a trainer at my gym said if I want to lose the fat that is covering my muscles I need to do more cardio. So last week I did a full hour of cardio each of the 4 days I worked out. I am actually torn about that too. I have nice muscles- not huge but strong and the ones you can see look decent. I don't want to neglect strength training all together but I do want to lose the fat.

I guess my goals are to lose the fat that covers my muscles. I don't plan on going very far with it. Just want to develop a strong muscular body with as little fat as would be healthy for a woman my size. I really am not sure what a decent percentage of body fat is.

I am taking both Winstrol and Clenbuterol. I was taking 10mg of win/day but this week I decided to reduce that to 5mg/day- mostly out of fear of side effects. I haven't experienced too many yet (just increased sex drive which is not a good thing for me since my boyfriend seems to have very little sex drive) but I am afraid of developing things like facial hair and acne. I have been taking Win for 2 weeks today. The clen I just started saturday and have been taking 80mcg/day.

I eat Kaski Go Lean cereal for b/fast, tuna for lunch, an apple for afternoon snack, dinner is usually grilled chicken breast and vegetables and if I have a snack after dinner it's plain bran cereal.

I'm happy with the progress I'm making I would just like to know what I should and shouldn't be doing to keep it going and get even better results.

Thank you!

 

[Tatyana]

In all honesty, if you are really new to bodybuilding/strength training, I would hold off on the steroids.

The advice for women is pretty much like the advice for the men, train naturally for awhile, build up some muscle, and drop bodyfat.

Especially winnie, for the lads it is referred to as a 'hardner', and gains do not really show on the lads with higher bodyfat.

With women, it is often referred to as 'snakebite' as women either love it or get some pretty bad sides.

Your diet is not ideal either for muscle building or fat burning. Lean protein in every meal, at least 6 meals every day, more quality carbs.

Have you worked out how many calories, carbs, protein and fat you are eating and what you need?

If not, and these things are new to you, then you are not really ready to take steroids.

Clenbuterol may also have sides, and as it up-regulates beta-2 receptors, it doesn't work as well after about two weeks plus or minus, unless you start taking more, or take some other drugs with it.

Also coming off of a lot of these stimulatory drugs can result in a rebound fat gain.

Fat lose is all about a calorie balance, but building muscle will be one of your best ways to up your metabolic rate. So that means DIET DIET DIET.

There are a few absolutely awesome books out there that will help you with your diet, and there is a thread that has some of the basics from Tom Venuto's Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle (see the thread in this section, help to sort out your diet).

I would also highly recommend Chris Aceto's All you ever wanted to know about fat loss.

In all honesty, training with weights, and by that I mean high intensity, going heavy, mixing it up, and a great diet, you will probably get the results you want without the drugs.

If you don't have these things sorted, any gains or fat loss that you do achieve with the drugs may be short lived.

Personally, I would hold off and train naturally for awhile.

No matter what anyone says, women always get sides from taking male hormones, it will show up somewhere on your body.

 

[Tatyana]

BTW, most trainers I have met in the gym are rubbish, especially when it comes to women wanting to get a great body.

The diet thread

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...-training/help-sort-out-your-diet-582178.html


Check the top sticky for more threads full of info about steroids for women, cardio training, and please ask more questions.

It does seem so overwhelming at first when you start into the wonderful world of bodybuilding.

Would you also be so kind as to post up your strength training routine?

 

[marybrown13]

Sure. Thanks for all of the info too. The strength training right now is just lower body one day upper body the next- 4 days per week. For upper body I work biceps, triceps, shoulders and chest. 3 Sets of 20 reps. 15-30 pounds depending on which muscle.

My lower body is alot stronger so I usually do 3 sets of 50 reps. Weights anywhere from 40 pounds up to 100 depending on the muscle.

I will look at the things about diet- I would like to know more about what I should be eating and when. You're right- it is overwhelming but I want to do it right. Thanks for all of your help!

 

[Tatyana]

To be really direct with you, your training is not really ideal either.

Three sets of 50 reps will build more endurance than muscle.

When you train upper body, you are doing the WHOLE upper body four times a week?

You are probably over-training, which is not beneficial for muscle or fat loss.

When I started bodybuilding properly, I only trained my arms about once a month as the triceps get worked with chest, biceps get worked with back.

Would you mind putting up exactly what you are doing, and we can see what we can modify so you can make the best progress in the least amount of time.

 

[cindylou]

Sure. Thanks for all of the info too. The strength training right now is just lower body one day upper body the next- 4 days per week. For upper body I work biceps, triceps, shoulders and chest. 3 Sets of 20 reps. 15-30 pounds depending on which muscle.

My lower body is alot stronger so I usually do 3 sets of 50 reps. Weights anywhere from 40 pounds up to 100 depending on the muscle.

I will look at the things about diet- I would like to know more about what I should be eating and when. You're right- it is overwhelming but I want to do it right. Thanks for all of your help!

Dont forget to work on your back! Its a big muscle group like your legs just for calorie sake if anything

 

[slat1]

Someone is giving you really, really bad advice and I don't mean Tatyana.
Something that stands out to me is that cardio only keeps your metabolism elevated for seven or so hours. Resistance training keeps it going for seventy plus hours!
Add to that the fact that you are taking steroids already.
Then the fact you are at 80mcgs of clen and you just started it on Saturday. That screams that you are taking it wrong. Hopefully, you know about taurine so you don't get a massive rebound from shutting down your T3 to T4 conversion.
Tatyana covered the routine so I will leave that alone.
Post up your diet. After all your diet drives all of your results.
I would listen to Tatyana. She is smart and is an independant third party. She has no reason to lie about anything. She will tell you the truth strait up and right now that is what you need!
Best of luck.

 

[Bikini Mod]

You have only been training for TWO MONTHS and you are taking performance enhancing agents?

DO YOU REALIZE HOW YOU COULD BE DAMAGING YOUR BODY...?

All the results you desire can and WILL be gained with proper nutrition and training. You don't NEED anabolic agents...

Tatyana is dead on with her advice. Please heed it well. You will be truly happy if you do.

Thanks for posting up and please stay and learn. I hope you don't think I am being too harsh but I believe that mistakes are our greatest teachers. However, that doesn't mean you need to make mistakes that have PERMANENT LONGTERM SIDES in order to learn a valuable lesson.

 

[Mandy Polk]

I just don't understand how people could pass out advice like the advice that MaryBrown has obviously gotten.

 

[marybrown13]

Thanks. I get so much advice from so many different people and places that it's hard to know just what to do. I read that 80mcg of clen per day was an avg dose for women. Is that not correct?

Also, I am hypothyroid- my throid doesn't work at all. So I take Armour thyroid- it's basically T3 and T4 in pill form. So my hope is that since my throid already doesn't work that the things i"m taking won't affect it. I don't see how they could but I could be wrong. Please tell me if I am! I appreciate everyone's responses.

 

[marybrown13]

No, not upper body 4 days a week- here's an example:

Monday: 30 min strength training upper body. 3 sets of 15-20 bicep curls (15 pounds), triceps 3 sets of 20 (30 pounds), chest 3 sets of 15 (20 pounds) and shoulders 3 sets of 15 (15 pounds). Then 30 min of cardio.

Tuesday: 30 min strength training lower body. 3 sets of 50 leg press (135 pounds) 3 sets of 50 inner thigh machine (100 pounds) 3 sets of 50 outer thigh machine (60 pounds) 3 sets of 15 calves (75 pounds) and 3 sets of 40 hamstring curl (40 pounds)

Wednesday: same as monday

Thursday: same as tuesday

Then I usually don't work out Fri-Sun.

I don't want to get really big- just have nice strong well defined muscles. So let me know what you think I need to change or modify. Thank you!

 

[Tatyana]

No, not upper body 4 days a week- here's an example:

Monday: 30 min strength training upper body. 3 sets of 15-20 bicep curls (15 pounds), triceps 3 sets of 20 (30 pounds), chest 3 sets of 15 (20 pounds) and shoulders 3 sets of 15 (15 pounds). Then 30 min of cardio.

Go heavier, drop your rep ranges into the 8-15 reps.

What are you doing for chest and shoulders?

I am assuming machines. Go for free weights.

Tuesday: 30 min strength training lower body. 3 sets of 50 leg press (135 pounds) 3 sets of 50 inner thigh machine (100 pounds) 3 sets of 50 outer thigh machine (60 pounds) 3 sets of 15 calves (75 pounds) and 3 sets of 40 hamstring curl (40 pounds)

Again, while starting on higher reps or doing them every now and then is a good idea, you will not grow any muscle doing what you are doing.

Adductor and Abductor machines, WASTE OF TIME for the most part.

SQUATS!!!!! Go lighter until your form is good.

Wednesday: same as monday

Thursday: same as tuesday

Then I usually don't work out Fri-Sun.

I don't want to get really big- just have nice strong well defined muscles. So let me know what you think I need to change or modify. Thank you!

Hun, you need to do some more research.

You say you don't want to get big, but you are taking steroids.

You are not training your back

One exercise for chest and shoulder is not enough.

Check out a few of the training journals.

I think that newbies to training can benefit from an all over bodyworkout two or three times a week. Back to basics so

Military Press - Shoulders

Bench Press or Incline dumbell press - Chest

Squats - Legs

Deadlifts - Legs and Back

Bent over rows - Back

Add in calves and abs at least once a week.

Make sure you get at least one day between each training session

One warm up set then three sets of 8-12 reps

That is one possible way, there are also doing 'splits' which means training a different bodypart each day.

OR if you like upper and lower:

Upper:

Military Press/Dumbells or Bar - Shoulders

Lateral Raises - Shoulders

Bench Press or Incline Bench/Dumbells or Bar - Chest

Bent over rows or dumbell rows - Back

Pull ups - Lats and Back

Dips - Chest and Triceps

Lower

Squats

Leg Press

Leg Extentions

Leg Curls

 

[slat1]

Here are where results come from in order of importance:
1. food
2. sleep
3. routine
4. supplement
5. steroids

Post up the diet.

 

[Tatyana]

Here are where results come from in order of importance:
1. food
2. sleep
3. routine
4. supplement
5. steroids

Post up the diet.

Mary has, it is about three meals, protein in two of them and very few calories.

Is that really what you would eat in a typical day?

Have you worked out your calories yet?

Fitday or calorieking do most of the work for you.

 

[marybrown13]

Yep- that's what I eat everyday. I eat hte same thing everyday for months until I get tired of it and then I switch it up a little. I figured to lose weight I should have 1200 calories or less a day. Can you post a typical day of food that you think would be better for me?

On another note, I have stopped taking the winstrol. You're right- I don't want to get big so why take steroids?, this is the first time I've ever gotten into working out and really enjoyed it and wanted to do it more- I need to figure out what I'm doing instead of trying to take a pill to make it all happen. I had just heard that winnie was good to 'melt fat away' but keep your muscles.

I was getting good results just from working out but I started taking it to try to speed the progress but I don't feel good about it and have been uneasy about it since I started. I'm still taking the clen. I'm going to take it for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off and see what happens. I have noticed it makes me withdrawn and very anti-social. I dont mind the jitters and being hot all the time but people at work keep asking me what's bothering me and why I'm not talking much... It just makes me not want to talk I guess.

So, can you help me on the diet part? I really appreciate all your help, by the way.

 

[Tatyana]

Your choice of the amount of calories, well, I do wonder what has people decide on a certain amount of calories.

Based on some of the work of two reknown physiologists, Katch and McArdle, they determined that the basal metabolic rate (which is the calories your body needs to function, nerve transmission, breathing, heart beating etc) is:

BMR = 370 + (21.6 x lean body mass in kilos)

You weigh 150 lb = 68.2 kg

68.2 kg x 0.27 (your bodyfat) = 18.4 kg of fat

68.2 kg total weight - 18.4 kg of fat = 49.7 kg of lean tissue

BMR = 1445 kcals

You are currently eating below what your body needs to function.

So it is more than likely, your body is in 'survival/starvation' mode, which means it will canabalise muscle (amino acids can be turned into glucose), slowed your metabolism down, and also, any calories it does get, it will preferentially store as fat, as fat = survival.

Muscle is an 'expensive' tissue as far as the body is concerned, it requires far more calories to maintain.

You have to think about how long in our human pre-history we lived exposed to the elements, in periods of feast and famine.

Humans would not have survived if we had not had this ability to store fat.

Your BMR is not the calories you eat every day, you also have to consider how active you are.

I ususally find that the moderate activity level is good so

BMR x 1.55 = 2240 kcals to maintain your current weight.

If you had been eating this amount of calories on maintainance, to lose weight, you would take off about 20% of the total calories, so around 1792 kcals/day.

As you have been eating too few calories, I would slowly add calories.

The first few weeks, add about 10-20% or 120 - 240 kcals, so eat about 1320 to 1440 kcals/day.

1440 kcals divided by 6 meals = 240 kcals/meal

I would go for about 40% of your calories from protien, 30-40% of your calories from carbs, and 20-30% of your calories from fat.

I posted a link in the second post in this thread to the 'help to sort out your diet' thread, with all this info in it.

There is also a shopping list of healthy foods, how to calculate % macronutrients from grams of protein etc.

A lof of this you will also find in Tom Venuto's Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle and in Chris Aceto's Everything you ever wanted to know about fat loss.

I know this really goes against the grain of how women have been told to diet and exercise, but it really does work.

 

[slat1]

Sent you a PM that will help you with the clen and explain it from start to finish.

 

[msam76]

Stay away from the winny until you have trained natural for a few years. It doesn't sound like you are training for size and strength so why take the winny?

 

[marybrown13]

The reason I wanted to take winny was because I had heard that it was for 'cutting' - I thought it would give me a little bit bigger muscles and help me to lose fat instead of losing muscle. But I stoppped taking it- it was really messing with me- and you guys are right- my intention was never to get huge muscles so why take steroids? I guess I just thought they would help but I was doing just fine on my own.

 

[Tatyana]

I am really happy to hear that Mary.

Steroids are for 'cutting' as much as aspirin 'thins' the blood, both are complete mis-interpretation of what these drugs really do in the body.

Steroids build muscles, aspirin inhibits platelet agglutination.

Have you been modifying your diet or training?

 

[marybrown13]

Yes, I have been reading ALOT about diet. A freind sent me a link to a diet e-book he goes by. He found it on bodybuilding.com and I started reading it last night. It's very hard for me to fit 5 or 6 meals into a day- I just don' tthink about eating THAT much.

With my training this week I have been doing 3 sets of each excersise one with 12 reps, then up the pounds by 5 or 10 and do 10 resp then up it again and do 8. I do it so that the set of 8 is very hard. I made sure to work my back, too. I can feel a difference- probably because I have worked out the same way for 6 weeks now and now I'm changing it up. I'm more sore than usual but it feels good. I k now what I'm doing is at least somewhat effective.

I don't know if I mentioned this to you but I'm not taking the clenbuterol anymore either. I thought I could live with the irritability and other side effects but I was miserable and being snappy and mean to everyone. It's just not worth it. In the 6 weeks I have been working out faithfully I had been making very good progress. My body has changed alot already and my body fat percentage has gone down 5%. I realize now that I don't need those things- I can do it on my own and feel alot better by not taking those things.

I did have a question for you though. Slat1 was saying the clen might affect my T3 to T4 conversion- I am hypothyroid so I take Armour everyday which is a combo of T3 and T4 because my thyroid does not work at all. So would these things still affect my thyroid functions or whatever- not the thyroid itself but do you think they would interfere with the medication? Just wondering.

 

[fitness-rubber]

Yes, I have been reading ALOT about diet. A freind sent me a link to a diet e-book he goes by. He found it on bodybuilding.com and I started reading it last night. It's very hard for me to fit 5 or 6 meals into a day- I just don' tthink about eating THAT much.

The bright side on this is that it gets to be a lot easier with time; it stops being something that you have to think about that much...