Cleans for Cubanito

[Arioch]

Set up for the clean: Feet about shoulder width apart, with the toes turned slightly outward. The set up should be like the most powerful set up for a vertical leap. Shins should be almost touching the bar, and the bar should be over the metarso-phalangeal joint of the feet (where the toes join the foot). Arch the back. Grip just wider than shoulder width, and use a hook grip. Make sure the arms are straight, flex the triceps if necessary, as pulling with bent arms can lead to elbow injuries and bicep tears. The shoulders should be either directly above or slightly in front of the bar. Look upward only slightly.

1st pull: Begin by straightening the legs, which will cause the torso to lean forward a little and the shoulders to move farther in front of the bar. Maintain the arch in your back at all times. The head will move back to a vertical position. Smoothly pull the bar from the deck and begin to accelerate it. The bar will continue to accelerate even after the legs have been straightened. The barbell should move toward you slightly. The end of the first phase occurs when the barbell is, on average, at a height equal to 31% of your height.

Rebend: Continue to straighten the torso, and rebend the knees slightly, this should occur when the bar is about 1/3 of the way up the thigh (past the knee joint).

2nd pull: This is when the explosion should take place. (the shoulder girdle, bar, and metarso-phalangeal joints should all be in the same horizontal plane) Jump, violently straightening the legs and torso, rising onto the toes and shrugging as hard and quickly as possible. Remember that the explosion occurs just after rebending the knees, and it does not take long (1-2 tenths of a second).

Pulling under the bar: Pull on the bar slightly as it is rising to help pull both it towards you and yourself toward the barbell, while squatting down as quickly as possible. In theory, you are trying to exert some sort of force on the bar at all times, and maintain control. Whip the elbows around as quickly as possible. Not only does this allow the barbell to be racked fast, but it helps avoid incidental contact in the bottom of the clean. While this is occurring, the feet are thrust from the platform and replaced solidly with the heels under the hip joints and the toes turned outward more. The lower back is still arched and the torso is tilted slightly forward. The bar should be racked as high as possible. If it is hitting your clavicles, it is too low and you should elevate your elbows.

When rising from the bottom of the clean, it is important to keep the elbows up. You do not wish to dump it forward after going to the trouble of cleaning it.

At the top, when preparing for the jerk, the dip and drive is where most of the power will come from. The dip and drive should be about 10% of your height, and should be done as quickly and as fluidly as possible. The fast you recover from the bottom of the half-squat, the more power you will impart to the bar for the jerk. Again, think of it like jumping, and the quicker you change directions at the bottom of a jump, the more of an elastic reflex will occur.

Now all that remains is to complete the jerk. Snap the arms straight to full extension. This must occur before the feet are set, or a press-out violation will be called. You are not just pushing the bar up, but yourself lower beneath the bar. The lower you can go into the split position, the less you have to work to raise the barbell. When splitting under the jerk, the front leg should be bent about 90 degrees, and the back leg about 160 degrees. The front foot is flat and straight, and the back foot is only touching the platform with the toes, and the heel is turned slightly outward. The feet should be about shoulder width apart. The wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints should all be in the same vertical plane, along with the bar and the hip joints.

Recovery: Straighten the forward leg while leaning back slightly. Then bring the rear leg forward. Wait for three white lights and lower the bar back to the platform under some semblance of control.

Note: Some diagrams will follow, but as I am quite the computer doofus, it will take some time.

 

[Screwball]

Damn....

This is one hell of a post. Cubanito, if you can't pull something valuable from this post then your road is truely going to be a long and difficult one. It is clear that Arioch knows his shit. I suggest printing this post out and taking it with you to your next Clean & Jerk workout. If your coach truly cares about his lifters then you might try letting him take a look at Arioch's post. He may be able to use the post to reinforce his coaching techniques. Everyone is a winner in the end. Great post Arioch! Hell it makes me want to throw clean & jerks in as an ME exercise.

- Screwball

 

[Arioch]

All right, the following sequence of photos shows decent technique by Tommy Inglsbe. He is lifting 440 lbs.

In this pic he has just cleared the deck and his knee angle is about 100 degrees.

 

[Arioch]

In this pic, he is just about finished with his 1st pull. The legs have straightened to about 160 degrees, and the shins are vertical. The rebend is about to occur, and in the instant before the rebend, the bar will have achieved its maximum velocity during the 1st pull of 1.45 m/s for a 170 cm athlete. (I have no idea how tall you are, and since you are the same age as my son, I arbitrarily decided to use his height).

 

[Arioch]

In this pic, he has rebent the knee, and is concentrating on the explosion. Note the elevation of the heels during the jump, and the fact that the bar is now moving slightly away from him, but will be pulled into position as he pulls under the bar. If you look carefully, you can see that he has started to shrug, and will re-position himself in about 1/10 of a second.

 

[Arioch]

Here is the proper position to receive the clean. Note the elevation of the elbows. If you look carefully, you can see that his feet are now wider than during the pull, his toes turn out more, and he is slightly forward of his original position, having pulled himself there during the squat under.

 

[Arioch]

Here is the proper racked position for the jerk. Note that his elbows have dipped slightly, but the bar is still firmly racked on his anterior deltoids, not the collarbones.

 

[Arioch]

This is the bottom position of the dip and drive. Go down any further and it takes too long to come up, and you lose force. Do not go down far enough and you never generate enough force in the first place. Note his elbows are still high, and to avoid hitting himself in the chin his head is back.

 

[Arioch]

A successful jerk. Tommy gets a lot of power out the bottom of a jerk and does not split as deeply as most people (including me) need to. The shin of the front leg should be perpindicular to the deck, with the thigh about 20 degrees above parallel.

 

[Arioch]

By the way, Cubanito, if you want all of the numbers that go with this, I need your height, the measurement from your illiac crest (hip bone) to the deck, and your sleeve and inseam measurements.

Yes, I do this for a living.

 

[Cubanito17]

HOLY SHIT thanx alot man I'm printing this out and reading it all day before my meet today. Then i'm going to show it to my coach and see what he says. If he tells me "didn't I tell you to get off the fucking internet and get on my program" again then I'll just do it myself and perfect it myself. I notice one thing already i'm doing wrong is when I come up from the first pull(deadlift) I don't keep my back arched so that might be messing me up.

 

[Arioch]

All right, this post only applies if you have someone who not only knows how to measure everything, but has the means to do so. If not, find a way to appreciate it anyway, as I went to the trouble of typing it in.

Knee angle at start of pull: 80deg - 110deg.
Torso inclined: 32deg.
Hip angle: 92deg - 97deg.

This is for the first picture.

2nd picture:
Leg time to straighten: .5 seconds
Bar should be moving at about 1.15m/s and should be at approximately 52.7cm from the platform.
The bar should have shifted toward you by almost 6.5cm

The rebend phase is not shown. It takes less than 1/5 of a second, and the goal is 1/10 sec.
The knees rebend to 125 – 130deg.
Decrease in speed during rebend to: 1.105 m/s
The shins incline toward the plaform 70-75deg.
The hip angle should be 105 -110deg.
Just following the rebend the bar should accelerate and achieve its maximum speed during the 1st phase.
Maximal acceleration in 1st phase: 1.2 m/s
Height of bar at end of 1st phase: 64.8 cm
During this phase the bar should shift forward about 3 cm.
End of knee shift: 125deg.
Shins incline toward platform: 70deg.
Time of rebend: .15 seconds
Shoulders in front of bar: 5.4 cm

Final acceleration: .1 seconds
Differentials: 1st phase: 1.225m/s
2nd phase: 1.38m
The bar should shift toward you about 3cm
Bar should rise to about 88.4cm

The bar should rise during the squat under by an additional 13.6 cm during the unsupported time.
Unsupported time during squat under: .15 seconds
Amortization: .3 seconds
Bar should rise to highest point of clean: 102 cm
Then desend to 74.8

Rack at top/pelvis tilt: 5.5 cm
Squat: .28 seconds
Squat depth: 62%
Braking: .12 seconds
Braking depth: 38%
Braking begins: 123deg.
Braking ends: 104deg.
Time of squat: 1.646 seconds
Pause before Jerking: .025 seconds
Bar Raised: 27.2cm

Recovery: .19 seconds
Active influence: .16 seconds
Knee at end of acceleration: 145deg.
Maximum velocity: 13 cm above initial height
Average velocity: 1.62 m/s

Squat under/split
Acceptable: shins 80 - 90deg.
Thigh: 20 deg. above parallel
Back Knee: 160 deg.
Torso lowers: 27cm

Ideal:
Front foot shift: shin inclines 10 deg. forward
Torso lowers: 36cm

 

[brianmincher]

Incredible post Arioch. Cubanito you had better listen to him or I will twist you into a pretzel when I run into you at a meet.

the pictures really helped. It is amazing how fast these guys are. I say Tommy Inglsbe in the World's Strongest man, he is a hell of an athlete.

B

 

[Screwball]

Double Damn...

This has to be one of the most incredible posts that I have ever had the pleasure to read. This is awsome stuff. Arioch, you are the man! No offense, "The Mann" (another board members handle). Is your experience primarily in the olympic lifting field? If you have similar knowledge applicable in the powerlifting arena then all board members here need to pick your brain. Awesome knowledge and experience!

- Screwball

 

[Arioch]

Phases of the pull, a slightly different perspective. Most of this is based on “A System of Multi-Year Training in Weightlifting,” by Medvedyev.

Most of the previous was based on times and tables taken in some form or another from Roman.

Phase I – Setup. Process has already been discussed. The purpose is to create tension. It is very important not to jerk the bar from the deck. Keep the arms straight.

Phase II – Preliminary Acceleration. This is from the time of barbell separation to the first straightening of the legs. This is where the bar starts to accelerate. This phase ends at the second picture.

Phase III – Amortization/Rebend – This would occur in between pictures two and three. This allows the legs and back to be more fully utilized to further accelerate the bar. Note that the shoulder girdle will be moving vertical during this phase to maintain bar velocity, even though there will be some slight slowing.

Phase IV – Final Acceleration – Picture Three. The purpose of this phase is simple. Pull the bar as high and as hard as possible. The higher it goes, the more time you have to get under it. Simple, No?

Phase V – Squat Under – When squatting under the bar, the goal is to be exerting control on the bar at all times. There will be a point where, after having achieved maximal height, the bar will begin to descend. Do not just let it drop, pull it down into a firmly racked position, which will lead to . . .

Phase VI – Supported Squat Under – Fix the barbell in the front squat position. In theory, there will be a point that the bar is free floating in between phases V and VI. The goal is to minimize this. Just like there is a point where, when you bounce a ball, between descending and ascending, it is motionless for an instant. No one really notices. If someone can see the bar float at all during the last two phases, you are not pulling under it quick enough. See Figure 4.


Phases of the Jerk

Phase I – The Half Squat – This is done as quickly as possible. The elastic reflex is everything. All of the power for the jerk comes from here. Sure, guys like Patera and Redding could press nearly what they could clean, but if you are reading this you are probably not one of them, and I am not the other.

Phase II – This phase begins the instant the barbell achieves its maximum downward velocity. It is known as the braking phase. Once again, speed is the key. Change direction quickly. Ideally this occurs in less than .15 seconds. The objective is to switch from flexing to extending the knees as quickly as possible.

Phase III – This phase lasts until the final extension of the knees occurs. This is where the power is actually transferred from the legs to the barbell. If your arms are capable of generating even one half of the power of your arms, you need to set up camp in the squat rack.

Phase IV – This is when the barbell leaves the fully racked position and the legs are re-arranged beneath you. The entire purpose of this phase is to properly place the feet.

Phase V – This is the completion of the jerk. The purpose here is to firmly fix the barbell overhead. It must be thrust solidly to full extension before the legs are fully set to avoid press-out.

 

[Arioch]

About me.

I started training (OL'ing) in 1972 at age twelve to assist other sports. I was luckier than most in that I lived down the street from a good coach who was willing to work with a smart-ass little punk. He coached me from 1972 until his death in 79. He was the best coach strength wise I have ever had, and some of things he tried to teach me I am still struggling to fully understand today.

I only competed occasionally, first meet in 1977, in the off season. I was a thrower (hammer and discus in both high school and college). I did my first pl type meet in 1981, but it was deadlift only. Pulled tripple bodyweight the first time I ever deadlifted. Advantages of a thrower's build.

After college, began to focus more on lifting, and began to improve more as an athlete, due largely to the fact that I was assistant coaching. As I was told many times by good instructors and coaches, teaching is learning. I did my first full PL meet in 1983. Amazing how not training your bench for the first seven years of your training can hurt your total.

Lifts began to improve some more over the next few years, but did not compete that often due to the demands of family, school, and coaching, but still continued to improve in both OL and PL (my bench even started to look like a bench, even if it only looked like one done by a six year old girl - in addition to a thrower's build, I have a high number of slow twitch fibers in my triceps, and nothing is like making a bad thing worse).

In the very early '90's, spent most of my time focused on powerlifting, as my wife began to compete (she is an elite 105 pound lifter with a triple bodyweight squat and deadlift, and a bench of 155). I just missed totalling elite in my last meet in Nov of 93, and was still improving when I was hurt in an accident in 1994. Bad. I spent the next few years recovering.

My deadlift came back first (surprise), then my squat. Due to shoulder injuries, I have trouble stabilizing a snatch or racking a clean, and those are improving even slower than my bench. I will compete for the first time in eight years and some change before my son goes to college in the fall, and I finally get my elite PL'ing total. (Yes, my son lifts too)

I have an MS in ex phys, and am current employed as adjunct faculty/strength coach.

I personally use the conjugate system, just like nearly everyone else here. I started out training this way as an OL'er, and naturally gravitated toward it as a PL'er.

 

[Cubanito17]

Dude this is truly awesome and thank you soooo much. Believe it or not my cleans went up 10lbs today b/c i read this all day in school today, but I didn't have a meet today. I have a post on here Arioch about my workout it's under "ok i thought it over all..." that one I am training westside but do you think my speed day and ME day for legs will help bring my cleans up if I use that training and I'm gonna print out this whole thread and re-read this everyday until I perfect my cleans. I am pathetic a 185 clean and jerk when i can jerk 225 b/c that's what I work with. Once again thank you.

 

[GRIMMER]

Cubanito, Arioch can probably teach more on your clean/jerk than all of us on this board put together. Forget what i say and listen to this man, it looks like he knows what hes talking about.
Very nice post Arioch.

 

[Arioch]

You will never perfect your cleans. In addition to developing strength, you are learning skill, and there will always be room for improvement.

It is hard to say over the net what will help you, because some of your problems could be caused by a weakness in a particular muscle group, or, more likely, by poor technique. If it is a technique issue, I can not see it from here.

Possible problems/solutions:

Not racking properly at bottom: solution, pull under faster and pull bar higher. Muscle group to strengthen: traps.

Not getting explosion: More than likely technique failure. Strengthen back through rdl's and gm's, squat and front squat for legs, and rdl's should help some with trap strength as you will be doing them with more weight than you clean.

Pull is weak off of the deck. Rare. But if this occurs you could add deadlifts or snatch grip deads, as well as strengthening the hamstrings and erectors (good mornings).

I can not really criticize your workout without knowing a lot more about your problems in the c&j.

Do you stick on the deck?
Do you know how to rebend?
Do you explode on your second pull?

Go over your technique phase by phase, which is why I posted them, and compare what you do with what I wrote, and see where you have trouble. The biggest problem is that I have no idea what your problem is. This is where hands on coaching is a must. I can offer some suggestions, assuming I get some more info from you, but you will be more instruemental in determining what you need than anyone else.

 

[Sebass67]

Arioch u have no idea how much this helps....

My clean is awful...i have a great dead for my age i think anyhow...485...i want to do 500 soon. I want to be able to transfer some of that strength to the clean. My catch is the worst i need to work on wrist flexibility. The way i am catching it right now is hurting my front delts because i am not forcing my elbows forward... Other than that for now anyhow, i will be improving the other phases of my clean. Any quick good ways to get my flexibility in my wrists?

Thanx for the info!

 

[Deciever]

i cannot do conventional deads.... so how the hell am i going to do cleans?? could you use a narrow sumo stance in it??

 

[Arioch]

Sebass67 - the only time the deadlift will transfer directly over into the clean is if your pull is weak off of the deck. Deads are very good for building trap and upper back strength, and with a good dead, the most likely trouble you would have with the clean is technique. The main difference in pulls (aside from the height, obviously) is that in the deadlift the pull begins to slow down at the point where the clean should truly begin to accelerate.

To improve the top end of the pull, I usually recommend hang cleans and cleans from the pins in the power rack. Redding used to do pulls with the bar resting on milk crates. The power snatch is an exceptional exercise to improve the second pull, as well as build upper back strength. It is probably my personal favorite OL assistance exercise.

As to improving flexibility for racking the clean, the easiest way I have found is to have someone simply push up on your elbows when you have a bar properly racked. If you are really motivated, you can have some who does not like you help . . .

Also, do not neglect to stretch the posterior deltoids and triceps.

Deceiver - the biomechanics of pulling with a sumo stance and generating any degree of power seems like a good way to get injured. You could try it, I suppose, but I think I would fall over backward.

Out of curiousity, why can you not pull conventional?

 

[Cubanito17]

Hey thanks man i really appreciate all this. Now for where I'm messing up see I'm not really sure myself let's put it this way see if it helps any i can high pull without moving my leg up to 105 for a triple then i can hang cleans with a bit of a spring 145 for a triple but my full powerclean is 180 now i can front squat i normally work with 225 for 8 or so. I know i have a problem with bar speed and throwing my elbows through but thats all i know of. Does that help any.

 

[Sebass67]

Arioch...great post. I am going to try some of this stuff as soon as i can. I have been doing those high pulls for a bit and i am getting better at them. Still got a ways to go.

 

[Arioch]

Cubanito, it sounds like you need to work on your second pull. One thing to remember, at first learning the OL's is all about technique. Yes, you will be muscular strength, but at this point you should be concentrating on skill.

That being said, you should work on hang cleans and power cleans from the pins. The reason power cleans from the pins are useful is because in addition to providing overload to the specific muscles you are utilizing, they allow you to set up in the proper position.

Set the pins at just above knee level, grip the bar with a hook grip, then rebend and explode. These can be done following cleans or in place of on a second day. I would do them following either speed bench or ME bench instead of specific shoulder work.

You could also try learning the power snatch. This will work the upper back even more, as well as force you to pull through to achieve the necessary height. In conventional OL'ing programs, it is normally taught first for just this reason.

 

[Prometheus]

Arioch -

Many, many thanks for your posts. Very helpful and much appreciated.

I have tried the lifts, and do rack cleans sometimes, but I haven't tried to move into a serious weight range, mainly due to poor (nonexistent?) technique. It's amazing how difficult those movements are...

Visually, the lifts look like they create a tremendous amount of lumbar stress, and that the stress might be greater than for deadlifts, as it is compounded by the accleration and high-pull aspects. I have had lower back problems in the past, and I was wondering if you have experienced lower back injuries, or how you feel the OL's compare to deadlifts in that regard...

Thanks again.

 

[Arioch]

Yes, there is a fair amount of lumbar stress, but most of it occurs when racking the clean, and is compressive in nature. The spinal column is much more suited to handling compressive force than the shearing force it is exposed to when performing a heavy deadlift, assuming that the torso would be inclined far more with respect to the platform.

If I had to compare them, I would state the following:

1. Clean: Most compressive force, least shearing force.

2. Deadlift, least compressive force, most shearing force (while the weight is significantly greater, the spine is not subject to as much loading due to the much slower speed of the weight, and hence much lower force).

3. The snatch would have more shearing force than the clean, but less than the deadlift. It would have less compressive force than the clean, but more than the deadlift. The lift is moving faster than either the clean or the dead, but the weight is significantly lower than the dead, and a bit lower than the clean.

I have not seen many lower back injuries with any sort of pulling lift, usually when squatting, as some idiot lets the bar get too far out in front of them (I am guilty of this sometimes, but then I never claimed to be all that bright).

The most common injuries in OL'ing are usually knee and shoulder injuries. Poor foot placement when receiving and racking can lead to knee problems, and poor technique when receiving the snatch can cause a great deal of problems, specifically when one is struggling to hold onto a snatch that is too far behind the lifter, and should just be dumped.

The most common injuries, in my experience, when doing any sort of pulls, are bicep and elbow injuries. People forget to keep the arms straight or try to jerk the bar from the deck, and wind up tearing a bicep.

The lifts are not that hard to learn, if you have a decent coach. Start slow and concentrate on technique, you have the rest of your life to add weight. The problem lies in the fact the the process of attaining sports mastery (PASM - Soviet term but very useful) takes many years. According to many coaches, it takes at least seven years to properlly develop OL'ing skills.

 

[Cubanito17]

Hey arioch this is an awesome post for everything to do with cleans. It's great. I tried incorporating on snatches last 6 week westside workout. I threw them in on leg day which is my clean day although I was doing DB snatches from a hang would this work I only did 3X5 each arm with a 55lb DB. I know weak. But should I do these from the ground with a DB or the bar.

 

[Arioch]

When you are first learning the movement, and in this case I am talking at least six months if not longer, you should use a bar, and not db's. You want the most stable environment possible, to concentrate on learning the technique. Practice these from the hang, as you are working on developing power for your second pull as well as strengthening your upper back. I started a thread on executing the snatch, please look at it and see if you have any questions (which you should). Sets of five are adequate for learning purposes at this point, but later you should switch to lower reps and increase the number of sets (such as ten sets of two, for example).

 

[Arioch]

Another thing, if you do them on days where you are not benching, your shoulders and traps may still be fatigued when you try to bench. As you are doing them to specifically strengthen the upper back as well as work on the second pull, I would do them on bench days instead of specific shoulder work. The execution of the snatch is excellent for strengthening the external rotators, btw.

I posted a thread on how to execute the snatch, please look it over and see if you have any questions (you should).

 

[Deciever]

arioch... i can deadlift conventional... it is jsut really awkward, and i tend to have bad form....

 

[Cubanito17]

Hey man thanx for the post on this I'm going to look over the snatch. One thing though if I'm replacing the snatch with shoulder work should it do ok for my back work too. And since according to westside training I have to strengthen this part will that strengthen it doing snatches from a Hang. And if I do these on bench days the very next day is my ME for cleans so what should i do on that day??????Thanx

 

[Cubanito17]

Hey man thanx for the reply one thing though If i'm switchin this with my shoulder workout would this go for back too??? So i'll be doing snatches from a hang??? I'll check out the post. Now if i'm doing this on bench days then what should i do the very next day my ME day for legs????Which is ME for cleans really. Thanx

 

[Prometheus]

Thanks again, Arioch!

 

[Arioch]

Bump for Babyface Monster

 

[b fold the truth]

You should try these with a 10" steel log. The clean is NOT fun!!!

B True

 

[Arioch]

Um, no thanks.

I think I will let you do them for me and I will experience them vicariously through your descriptions.