Cholesterol help!!

[genesis]

Ok.. maybe there aren't any studies at least that I'm aware of that specifically show winstrol does not close growth plates, HOWEVER, it is a scientific fact that estrogen is WHAT causes growth plate closure.. and that is why steroids cause premature closure.. because of estrogen and thats the only reason.

So its pretty safe to say that if it doesn't aromatize.. there isn't any danger..



Anyways, thanks for the concern though much appreciated.


I get my newest blood work monday, I will update.

 

[geoboy]

Ok.. maybe there aren't any studies ....................
So its pretty safe to say that if it doesn't aromatize.. there isn't any danger..

like I said, thats a reasonable inference, but an untested inference. but they're your ephiphyses .

anyways good luck.

 

[PolfaJelfa]

beautifull poost by psyched out

 

[genesis]

like I said, thats a reasonable inference, but an untested inference. but they're your ephiphyses .

anyways good luck.

I wouldn't say its untested.. I'm sure there are some hard facts out there...

Its pretty much generally accepted that steroids that aromatize are to blame for stunting growth...

I think the fact thats its not debated really gives it some water.


But anyways, thanks.

 

[NRF]

I agree re the anavar, as its approved for pediatric use, and I recall specific studies and numerous mentions regarding the fact that its doesnt cause premature closure.

I also agree re estrogen & GPs, BUT.....I also remember seeing lots of other material saying that var is the only steroid that won't prematurely fuse plates [for example, see (f) growth deficits in http://www.steroidinformation.com/sideeffects.htm ]


best case scenario, perhaps more accurately it should say var is the only steroid that's been shown in scientific studies not to fuse GPs. If thats the case, Winny's lack of aromatization SHOULD mean that it also will not fuse plates, but there are no studies specifically demonstrating that. and thats a pretty high stakes inference you'd be making with something that important.

unless you have studies re specifically winny & GPs, maybe you should play it safe, and just switch to var esp if its the strength that u crave most. better safe than sorry.
-

Just re-inforcing your point about Anavar being the only AAS to not close growth plates.

Here's the study:

1: Horm Res. 2003;59(6):270-5. Related Articles, Links


Androgen therapy in constitutional delay of growth.Lampit M, Hochberg Z.

Meyer Children's Hospital, Rambam Medical Center, Haifa, Israel.

BACKGROUND/AIMS: Two modalities of androgen therapy prevail in the treatment of constitutional delay of growth (CDG): monthly injections of testosterone or daily tablets of the non-aromatizable oxandrolone. The present study was undertaken to prospectively compare both compounds and dose. METHODS: Thirty patients with CDG were the subjects of this study. The protocol required that they all be at age 12-14 years with a bone age delay of more than 2 'years', height less than -2 SDS and growth velocity less than -0.5 SDS. The subjects were at a Tanner stage 1 or 2 and testicular volume were no larger than 4 ml. They were randomly assigned into 3 treatment groups: group 1 patients received monthly injections of 25 mg testosterone propionate-enanthate; group 2 patients received monthly injections of 50 mg testosterone propionate-enanthate; group 3 patients received oral oxandrolone at a weekly dose of 0.7 mg/kg. Treatment was given for a period of 6 months and follow-up commenced 6 months later and yearly thereafter for 2 years. RESULTS: Height velocity and height increased significantly only in groups 2 and 3. Bone age advanced most in group 2. Puberty progressed faster in that group as compared with group 3. The predicted adult height before and 2 years after completion of treatment remained unchanged in the two testosterone groups. It increased significantly in the oxandrolone group from a mean 169.8 cm before therapy to a mean 177.5 cm 2 years after completion of therapy. Peak GH levels were significantly higher on both testosterone 50 mg and oxandrolone, as compared to pretreatment levels. The increment was significantly greater in group 2 as was the increment in serum IGF-1 and IGFBP3. CONCLUSIONS: These results imply that 6 months of testosterone injections at a dose of 50 mg, but not 25 mg, is an effective and safe treatment for patients with CDG, with no considerable impact on final height prediction. On the other hand, daily oxandrolone treatment, starting at age 12-14 years, may increase the predicted final adult height. Copyright 2003 S. Karger AG, Basel
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 12784090 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Slightly funny conclusion though. it actually makes a semi-case for giving Anavar to children..

But in conclusion, Anavar obviously does not close growth plates. Neither does testosterone, but in males above 20, I don't think this wouldbe the case.

 

[Ulter]

It's estrogen not testosterone that closes them. They only used 50mg of test per month. That's not enough estrogen to close the plates.

 

[genesis]

How does that study prove that anavar is the only AAS that does not close growth plates...???



Also.. those studies although great for pondering on.. don't really apply to our situations as already mentioned...


AAS actually speeds up vertical growth.... at least most do..


Excess estrogen from aromatizing substances can cause plate early plate fusion though