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Cholesterol help!!

Ok, just an update..

I'm getting another blood test tomorrow.. I think my doctor is thinking I may not have fasted long enough before the first blood test.. because he is still boogled that a man my age has such bad cholesterol..


I have cut the femara to basically e3d at like less than .75mgs or so....
I'm not sure if enough time has passed since I did this in order to significantly change my hdl to ldl rations but we will see...


Btw, my doctor wants me to see a dietician.. its like an 85 dollar fee.. is it worth the money? Or could I just find it all online?
 
Genesis said:
Ok, just an update..

I'm getting another blood test tomorrow.. I think my doctor is thinking I may not have fasted long enough before the first blood test.. because he is still boogled that a man my age has such bad cholesterol..

Btw, my doctor wants me to see a dietician.. its like an 85 dollar fee.. is it worth the money? Or could I just find it all online?

they didnt put 2 and 2 together yet? gotta luv the docs.

u might benefit from talking to a GOOD dietician, but after reading tru the board, you'll probably know more than he does.
 
Genesis said:
Ok, I just started my cycle of eq at 400mgs every week and winstrol at 50mgs ED. Along with some femara ED.. I've been playing with the dosages a bit.. never hitting 2.5mgs just yet.. seeing how much my body needs to keep the bloat and everything down.. at first I was doing about 1mg Ed or so.. but I've upped it recently at my levels of EQ should be reaching their full soon as I was frontloading.

Ok, now I just got my blood work done by a cholesterol doctor.. my cholesterol ratios are absolutely horrible, I have a count of 7 hdl to about 190 ldl. Thats ridiculous.. the doctor I saw is currently talking to my dads doctor as he has high cholesterol as well.. but he does not run cycles or anything like that.. he just as a poor diet. What should I expect to hear from them? Apparently I will be seeing a dietician.

What kind of supplements could I put myself on in the mean time to help myself? Or maybe I should wait for the doctor and let him advise me?



Thanks in advance everyone.

7 HDL and 190LDL? That HDL score is one of the lowest I've seen.

Start policosanol right away at 40mg at night before bed.
Drop the femara, EQ doesn't aromatize to estrogen, but to a simpler estrogen.
If you want your lipids to improve(They are probably shot due to the winny) add in 10mg Novaldex/day. Novaldex will also block the simple estrogen that has aromatized from the EQ.

Do that, and in about 4 weeks your LDL will be reduced by 40% to about 124 and your HDL will have increased marginally to about 20...for a total cholesterol value of 144.

Winny btw is what is killing your HDL. It is by far the worst AAS for destroying HDL. I'd consider eliminating in and going for a different anabolic. Low dose test(300mg/week) would be a good option, just increase the EQ dosage marginally.

Do that and your HDL will probably rebound to about 30-40, while using the Policosanol and novaldex. LDL will drop even further to about 100.

Then you'll be in the safe zone.
 
Nolvadex is not an option for me.. it might fuse growth plates and I'd rather have bad cholesterol this one time rather than risk that... I need the femara to stop any excess estrogen.. I am taking a very VERY small amount.. every 3rd day at that.



I'll try the policosanol.. but its never worked for me before...



Ok, did my blood test today.. should have results in 1-2 days.. now.. my doctor on the bottem of the blood work form requested some additional tests called Apo B or something like that.. I asked the lady drawing my blood what it was and she wasn't sure.. she said it might be some kind of protein...

I'm under the impression that if my doctor is testing for roids or drugs of any type, he has to inform me correct? Could he be checking for protein synthesis or something that may indicate some type of roid?


Thanks
 
Here is one of the best articles on cholesterol you will ever read:

I give drveejay credit as he wrote it.

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Cholesterol...the “other” silent killer all members should be concerned with!

WHAT IS CHOLESTEROL
Cholesterol is a waxy, fat-like compound that belongs to a class of molecules called steroids. It's found in many foods, in your bloodstream and in all your body's cells. If you had a handful of cholesterol, it might feel like a soft, melted candle. Cholesterol is essential forFormation and maintenance of cell membranes (helps the cell to resist changes in temperature and protects and insulates nerve fibers)
Formation of sex hormones (progesterone, testosterone, estradiol, cortisol)
Production of bile salts, which help to digest food
Conversion into vitamin D in the skin when exposed to sunlight.

Excess cholesterol in the Blood collects on the walls of certain blood vessels decreasing their ability to provide proper blood flow to the tissues fed by these blood vessels. For example, a heart attack occurs when the heart receives insufficient blood flow. High levels of cholesterol also increase the risk of high blood pressure, stroke, and circulation problems.
Cholesterol can be affected by consuming foods high in fat, but the body also synthesizes cholesterol. Some people that adhere to a low fat diet still have high cholesterol levels because their body synthesizes an excess amount. There are several forms in which cholesterol is present in the body, LDL (the harmful form) and HDL (the helpful form). Depending on the relative levels of these forms, along with the concentration of triglycerides (another type of body fat), certain drugs are more effective then others in correcting the abnormalities. For example, a person with elevated LDL levels and normal triglycerides may be treated with different medications than someone with only elevated triglycerides.

Drveejay’s RULES to improve over-all Lipid Profiles.

RULE # 1) Eat a High Fiber Diet

HIGH FIBER DIETS are great for reducing cholesterol levels and reducing soft arterial plaque. Water soluble fibers (guar gum, citrus pectin, locust beans, etc.) are very viscous, slimy and sticky. Bacteria in the large bowel breakdown the water soluble fibers into short chain fatty acids. It is the fatty acids we believe are responsible for lowering LDL-C and interfere with the adhesive characteristics of plaque promoting regression of atherosclerosis (blockage). It also poses qualities which enable lowering LDL (Bad) Cholesterol thereby reducing total cholesterol, improves GI Motility, and improves Glucose Tolerance.

RULE # 2) Avoid Fats and Carbs in the same meal. This one’s kind of a no-brainer! As fatty acids and carbs compete as energy sources. Gluconeogenesis mediates and prioritizes this competition in favor of carb utilization. The fatty acids that are NOT needed at this time facilitate cholesterol synthesis and lipogenesis (not in the absence of carbs!). This is a recipe for disaster.

RULE #3) Eat a diet RICH in Omega 3 Fatty Acids Fish oil supplements are dietary supplements that contain oil from cold water fish such as mackerel, salmon, black cod, albacore tuna, sardines, and herring. The active ingredients in fish oil supplements are essential fatty acids known as omega-3 fatty acids. They typically include eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
Fish oils are noted for their effects in people with high cholesterol and heart disease. Medical research supports that large amounts of fish oil—five to 20 grams daily—may lower the amount of triglycerides, or dissolved fat, in the blood. For more...http://www.dcnutrition.com/fattyacids/.

RULE#3) LOWER SATURATED FATSNot all saturated fat is linked to elevated cholesterol levels; only a subset of saturated fatty acids have this effect. The effect of saturated fat intake on cardiovascular disease incidence is only mediated through its effect on raising LDL levels. If cholesterol levels are controlled for, then saturated fat has no independent effect. What this means is that if the LDL and HDL levels are adequate, then adjustment of saturated fat intake will have little benefit. This is an important concept because earlier; it was thought that saturated fat intake was an independent factor, but more recently, it has become accepted fact that much of this effect was due to failure to account for fiber intake which typically declines as saturated fat intake increases.

RULE #4) AVOID TRANS FATTY ACIDSFinally, the role of trans fatty acids needs clarification. Trans fatty acid, although they are technically classified as polyunsaturated fats because of their chemical structure, in general behave more along the lines of saturated fats with regard to their effects on cholesterol. In addition to this property, they also appear to have negative effects on hormonal regulation by interfering with eicosanoids due to their similarity with polyunsaturated fats. Since nutrition labels typically do not list trans fatty acid amounts, look for term "partially hydrogenated" to disclose its presence

RULE #5) RUN Nolvadex with every cycle (w/ or w/out other anti-E’s)The selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) act like estrogen in bone and cardiovascular tissue and block estrogenic effects in the breast SERMs decrease LDL and cholesterol levels. GREAT TRICK when used with highly androgenic gear!


RULE #6) USE LIVER DETOXIFIERS year round even if NOT on orals! (Ala, thistle, tylers, liv 52, NAC, etc) are NO-BRAINERS here. Enabling your liver to function optimally, proper cholesterol metabolism and emulsification can take place.


RULE #7) EXERCISE (cardio/whatever) just be sure to “stay active” other than JUST bodybuilding. Cardiovascular exercise is GREAT for keeping the heart healthy and strengthening circulation.“Reducing the risk of heart attack and other complications of heart disease, cholesterol-lowering drugs are good, but a combination of medications, diet and exercise is better, new research suggests. In a study of people with heart disease, those who took cholesterol-lowering drugs called statins, stuck to a very-low-fat diet and exercised regularly were 67% less likely to have a heart attack or stroke or to die during the 5-year study than people who only took statins.”SOURCE: Journal of the American College of Cardiology 2003;41:263-274.
For MORE...: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles...rs-runners.html

Drveejay’s SUPPLEMENT LIST (in order of importance)

SUPP # 1) Policosanol It is a natural supplement derived from sugar cane. The main ingredient is octacosanol. Octacosanol is an alcohol found in the waxy film that plants have over their leaves and fruit. The leaves and rinds of citrus fruits contain octacosanol, and so does wheat germ oil.

Policosanol has been shown to normalize cholesterol as well or better than cholesterol-lowering drugs, without side effects such as liver dysfunction and muscle atrophy.Efficacy and safety have been proven in numerous clinical trials, and it has been used by millions of people in other countries. Policosanol lowers harmful LDL-cholesterol and raises protective HDL-cholesterol. HDL-cholesterol removes plaque from arterial walls.

Policosanol also inhibits the oxidation of dangerous LDL-cholesterol4 which promotes the destruction of blood vessels by creating a chronic inflammatory response. Oxidized LDL can also provoke metalloproteinase enzymes. These enzymes promote blood vessel destruction, partly by interfering with HDL’s protective effect. Studies show that rats treated with policosanol have fewer foam cells, reflecting less inflammatory response causing less blood vessel destruction.

Healthy arteries are lined with a smooth layer of cells so that blood can race through with no resistance. One of the features of diseased arteries is that this layer becomes thick and overgrown with cells. As the artery narrows, blood flow slows down or is blocked completely. Policosanol can stop the proliferation of these cells in much the same was as lipid-lowering drugs.

Policosanol also inhibits the formation of clots, and may work synergistically with aspirin in this respect. In a comparison of aspirin and policosanol, aspirin was better at reducing one type of platelet aggregation (clumping together of blood cells). But policosanol was better at inhibiting another type. Together, policosanol and aspirin worked better than either alone.
Thromboxane is a blood vessel-constricting agent that contributes to abnormal platelet aggregation that can cause a heart attack or stroke. Significant reductions in the level of thromboxane occur in humans after two weeks of policosanol.

www.lifeextension.com/references.)

SUPP # 2) Red yeast rice. It is one of the better studied of these cholesterol-lowering supplements. There have been a number of clinical studies both in China, where it originated, and in the United States, showing that people who consume this red yeast rice along with a sensible diet can see a reduction in their cholesterol levels. It’s pretty powerful stuff because it contains a chemical called lovastatin. The same active ingredient found in a popular prescription drug used to lower cholesterol. That similarity has caused the FDA to take action against one company (go figure!). Red yeast rice also seems to have very few side effects.

SUPP # 3) Phyto-Sterol Complex It is 100% vegetable derived and provides naturally-occurring sterols including: Beta Sitosterol, Campesterol, and Stigmasterol. Similar in action to the SERMS (nolvadex) Phytoestrogens are plant substances that have weak estrogenic activity in some tissues and block the effects of estrogen in others. They are found in herbs and plant foods, especially soybeans. Soybeans are rich in isoflavones, particularly genistein and daidzein. The FDA stated that foods containing soy protein included in a diet low in saturated fat and cholesterol may reduce the risk of CHD by lowering blood cholesterol levels. The FDA has authorized use of labeling health claims about the role of plant sterol or plant stanol esters in reducing the risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) for foods containing these substances. This interim final rule is based on FDA's conclusion that plant sterol esters and plant stanol esters may reduce the risk of CHD by lowering blood cholesterol levels.

SUPP # 4) Vitamin E (tocopherol). It seems to interfere with the liver's ability to make cholesterol. Vitamin E is an anti-oxidant that protects cell membranes and other fat-soluble parts of the body, such as LDL Cholesterol (the “bad” cholesterol), from damage. Only when LDL is damaged does cholesterol appear to lead to Heart disease and vitamin E is an important antioxidant protector of LDL. Several studies have reported that 400 to 800 IU of natural vitamin E per day reduces the risk of heart attacks.

SUPP # 5) Lecithin It is a lipotropic (a fat emulsifier). Its primary function is to metabolize fat and cholesterol, so that it does not settle in the artery wall or in the gall bladder. Many of the positive effects of lecithin consumption are based on the fact that lecithin is a major source of choline. Choline is a lipotropic substance… As choline increases fat metabolism it has been shown that it lowers blood cholesterol.

Other “Maybe’s” with “good potential”

Garlic I’m slowly becoming skeptical after reading MANY well documented studies conveying that Garlic/Allicin is “decent at first” but essentially USELESS After 90 days! But until I read more CONCLUSIVE evidence, I will not totally dismiss its benefits. Here’s ONE example: http://www.berkeleywellness.com/htm...GarlicPills.php

Guggul Is a resin from the guggul tree, has been used for more than 2,000 years in India to treat a range of disorders. In the 1980s, an extract of the resin--dubbed gugulipid--began to be marketed as a cholesterol-lowering agent. The plant compound's mode of action is quite different from that of cholesterol-lowering statin drugs. This means that it or other compounds that work similarly could potentially be used in combination with statins. Some of guggul's active components, guggulsterones, work by blocking a substance that stops the body from getting rid of cholesterol. Statins, on the other hand, block the body from making more cholesterol.In addition to lowering cholesterol, guggul has anti-inflammatory activity. The dosage of guggulsterones is 25 mg two or three times daily. Most extracts contain 2.5–5% guggulsterones and can be taken daily for 3 to six months as a cholesterol lowering agent.

Alfalfa leaf Animal studies show that alfalfa leaf reduces blood cholesterol and plague deposits on artery walls.

Green barley has been used for centuries because of its high content of vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, enzymes, chlorophyll, various antioxidants, and many unknown natural substances with powerful properties. Has been shown to lower LDL (bad cholesterol) levels. Known to lower blood sugars and insulin levels in clinical studies.

Selenium It is the oxidized form of low-density lipoproteins (LDL, often called "bad" cholesterol) that promotes plaque build-up in coronary arteries. Selenium is one of a group of antioxidants that may help limit the oxidation of LDL cholesterol and thereby help to prevent coronary artery disease.

Inositol-Hexaniacinate is a form of Vitamin B-3 (but more superior). It assists in the breakdown and utilization of fats, proteins, and carbohydrates. It also reduces serum lipids. Unlike niacin which may cause flushing, headaches, and stomachaches, Inositol-Hexaniacinate is almost always safe although some rare liver problems have occurred at amounts in excess of 1,000 mg per day. Due to possible hepatotoxic effects, I do NOT recommend straight Niacin. High doses of Niacin can also be responsible activating peptic ulcers, impairing glucose tolerance, and precipitating gouty attacks. And many niacin-takers suffer from flushing, headaches, nausea, heartburn, and diarrhea. There are better choices—above.
 
I bet the dietician will give you a sheet with foods to avoid...it'll say you can eat 3 eggs per week etc, one avacado ...- it'll piss you off.

I saw a dietician after my cholesterol was jacked, I still continued to eat 5-6 eggs a day, a ton of anpb, more fruits and vegetables, flax etc. and then when I retested I was fine. I bet the dietician wondered how my cholesterol could be so jacked because I was so knowledgable about diet.
 
anyone know about those additional tests my doctor ordered on the blood work form though?


What I'm primarily scared of is that my doctor will hint to my dad that I might be on roids... my dad is very health conscious... although he is overweight.. but he is healthy.. he has an excellent lipid profile.. and jogs all the time... so I can't exactly dismiss my bad cholesterol until I'm done with the cycle.. hes going to keep nagging me... and alot at that.
 
Genesis said:
Nolvadex is not an option for me.. it might fuse growth plates

BRO! You're concerned about growth plates and you're doing winny? winny (and other androgens) will prematurely fuse epiphyses at least as good and probably way better.


Genesis said:
Ok, did my blood test today.. should have results in 1-2 days.. now.. my doctor on the bottem of the blood work form requested some additional tests called Apo B or something like that.. I asked the lady drawing my blood what it was and she wasn't sure.. she said it might be some kind of protein...
.............. Could he be checking for protein synthesis or something that may indicate some type of roid?


Thanks

Apo b level is used to further determine risk of developing arthereosclosis. BUT may be a backdoor to detecting AAS use since it's known Apo b levels can be elevated with use of androgens. here's the last "get out of jail free" excuse card u get. Apo b levels can ALSO BE ELEVATED WITH AN ULTRA HIGH FAT DIET . so if its high.......you pigged out on fried Peking duck right before the test right? And washed it down with those 1-TU's :D .


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geoboy said:
BRO! You're concerned about growth plates and you're doing winny? winny (and other androgens) will prematurely fuse epiphyses at least as good and probably way better.


Whatt!??? Please explain.. I've done alot of reading into this subject.. and believe me when I say alot because not many people have knowledge about this subject matter.. as almost everyone on any board using AAS has finished growing vertically.

Androgens (specifically Anavar) has often been used to actually help young boys grow.. to speed up vertical growth..... estrogen is the regulator in closing growth plates... how would winny close my growth plates?




Apo b level is used to further determine risk of developing arthereosclosis. BUT may be a backdoor to detecting AAS use since it's known Apo b levels can be elevated with use of androgens. here's the last "get out of jail free" excuse card u get. Apo b levels can ALSO BE ELEVATED WITH AN ULTRA HIGH FAT DIET . so if its high.......you pigged out on fried Peking duck right before the test right? And washed it down with those 1-TU's :D .




I see... thanks for the heads up.
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Universal question here.. I am seriously loving the hell out of the strength gains winny is giving me.. and I don't want to drop it.. but I may have to.. what would be an appropriate dose of winny to sub with EQ? 50mgs of winny=? 200mgs of EQ? 100mgs?
 
Genesis said:
Whatt!??? Please explain.. I've done alot of reading into this subject.. and believe me when I say alot because not many people have knowledge about this subject matter.. as almost everyone on any board using AAS has finished growing vertically.

Androgens (specifically Anavar) has often been used to actually help young boys grow.. to speed up vertical growth..... estrogen is the regulator in closing growth plates... how would winny close my growth plates?

I agree re the anavar, as its approved for pediatric use, and I recall specific studies and numerous mentions regarding the fact that its doesnt cause premature closure.

I also agree re estrogen & GPs, BUT.....I also remember seeing lots of other material saying that var is the only steroid that won't prematurely fuse plates [for example, see (f) growth deficits in http://www.steroidinformation.com/sideeffects.htm ]


best case scenario, perhaps more accurately it should say var is the only steroid that's been shown in scientific studies not to fuse GPs. If thats the case, Winny's lack of aromatization SHOULD mean that it also will not fuse plates, but there are no studies specifically demonstrating that. and thats a pretty high stakes inference you'd be making with something that important.

unless you have studies re specifically winny & GPs, maybe you should play it safe, and just switch to var esp if its the strength that u crave most. better safe than sorry.
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