Check out the wall Isreal is building

[MattTheSkywalker]

But the jews in Isreal have ALREADY done this. The friggin west Bank and the Gaza Strip are the jew's personal Warsaw and Krakow ghettos. The palastinians living there came from where........? Isreal proper. They were inded torn from their homes and put into camps. Perhaps not systematically executed but certainly there is a pattern of racial genocide going on at the hands of the Isrealis.

And do not forget there were tens of millions killed in WWII. Not just the Jews. But only the Jews perpetuate the guilt. Why? so that their horrible behavior is some how "excused" because they are the "victim".

Neither side could really be called "at fault" anymore. It helps to look at this whole thing with some regard for history, and less hyperbole or drama.

Jews didnt create Israel - the US and UK did. These countries didn't want the Jews to come to them. Most US Jews hated FDR during the war and Truman used "Israel" to pacify them.

Much of the now disputed territory was seized after Israel was invaded. If Mexico invaded the US and we fought them off, then took and extra 100 miles of their country to make subsequent attacks more difficult, few Americans would object, certainly, we'd feel no sympathy for the dispalced Mexcians. Thus, objections here are a little bit misguided.

The Jews's victimhood during WW2 is unique for a few reasons. Chief among them, it was the culmination of a 1600 year religious problem - the roots of the Holocaust are in the Roman empire. (I strongly recommend "Constantine's Sword" - this book addresses this and many other issues and is very well written.)

Hitler's Final Solution" was a religious expression - the solution to emperor Constantine's "Jewish problem".

Religious killings are certainly not unique, but Christians had stopped doing it a long time ago...or so we thought.

Additionally, Germany was invovled in an "all - fronts" war and was actively diverting resurces from the fronts to accelerate the genocide. Genocide during war without any positive imapct on the war is near unique in history. Germany could have won the war if they were pro-Jewish (or even netural) as they would have probably had the first atomic bomb.

The slaughter of millions of Russians, etc is not exactly analogous, are they?

Finally, to gain a clear picture of the Middle eastern conflict, we must look at other parties invovled. Both Jordan and Syria killed Palestinaisn by the thousands when they attempted to take land from those countries for their own "state". Egyptian protestors were killed by the Egyptian army whenthey protested against Egypt's ignorance of the Palestinian situation.

Israel is brutal, but then again it is a war zone. In assessing their brutality, it is important to remember that more Palestinains have died of car accidents than at Israeli military hands.

The only way this issue can ever be resoveld is when the nations other than Israel embrace representative government and abandon their monarchy/theocracy. The Bush amdinsitration gets that, and our troop presence in the region is intended to signal that the days of Arab/Muslim monarchy is coming to an end.

Otherwise all the talks of concessions etc are horseshit.

 

[ChefWide]

Oh the horror. I am about to agree with something Matt wrote ... ok... here goes...

Quite right, the essence of the problem could be easily fixed by any one of five Arab countries that are more than capable of not only providing land and shelter to the entire Palestinian population, but more able to fund it entirely.

One small problem: they won't even consider it. Nobody wants the palestinians, not even the Bathists in Syria who are currently the closest thing the Palestinians have to 'friends' will help out with anything other than fuel for the fire of hatred. Syria actively destroyed refugee camps after they force repatriated hordes of Palestinians after the 'blood bath' of 1948 never happened, and then promptly shut their borders.

Arab countries, even those that proport to be democracies (er.. bullshit), only hate Israel a little more than Palestinians and then only a little more than each other, which is barely more than they seem to despise there own people.

Arabs helping arabs? not likely. The only uniting factor in the mid east is the arab governments desperate propaganda campaigns that exist solely to get their own poeple to HATE the west and hate isreal, which is absolutely nessasary for these governments to retain control of their own huddled masses.

If there werent the two big easy targets right next door (those being Israel and, by proxy, The U.S.) to blame everything on, arabs on the whole might notice that they live in shit, have no rights and are totally subjugated by the cream of among the wealthiest countries in the world (Their OWN!). A perfect recipe for overthrow of insular, oppressive monarchies, no? So in effect, its good to distract their own dangerously oppressed populations into hating Israel as a full time job... then maybe they wont turn their undivided attention on their own governments....

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

If there werent the two big easy targets right next door to blame everything on, they might notice that they live in shit, have no rights and are totally subjugated by the cream of among the wealthiest countries in the world. A perfect recipe for overthrow of insular, oppressive monarchies, no?

My keyboard is burning!

 

[pharmguy]

the jews were there before the palestinians then lost the land

just like the american indians

just like the australian aborigines

just like any of a thousand other land ownership transitions

i used to own a house on the other side of town. i sold it. does taht mean my children or grandchildren can go back there and claim it because its family land?

please. at the end of the day the palestinians are being RIPPED OFF royally by the Israelis and the Americans, who then manipulate the media to make it look like its the right thing to do

its dirty dog low. always was, always will be. thats why elements of the israeli army refuse to do it anymore, by way of concience.

all you palestinian haters get a clue. they blow people up because their hands are tied and tahts all they can do. their actions are condemned in the west because despite all the $$$$$ in their military arsenal they cant effectively fight against this

all power to the palestinians, i hope they get their land back. THEIR LAND.

everyone deserves a fair go, and these guys havnt got one

screw all you fat kids behind your keyboards in the USA where life is great. go buy an airline ticket and see for yourself before you trash talk about desperate people

that being said i ahve no problem with most israelis or americans...just the ones perpetrating this injustice

cheers all

The Palestinans wre not there by the way before the jews, This is a great myth. The BRITISH were there. The BRITISH patitioned the land into jewish and palestinain areas. Also at that time, Most "palestinians" were actually in JORDAN. JORDAn threw them out because they did not want to deal with them either. But noone ever remembers that part about Jordan. So it was british, not plasetinain. And Palestinain is as much a nationality as New Engalnd is a sate.

 

[ChefWide]

My keyboard is burning!

I have some edits to that post to clear things up... I think we are in aggreement here, no? Lets savor the moment.

 

[glennds]

in that book i mentioned earlier, "hitler's willing executioners" the author made an interesing analogy. he compared the dislike of jews to the dislike of child molestors.

in most societies child molestors are considered evil and social outcasts. this is an accepted belief. in germany at the beginning of hitler's rise to power this was a belief he exploited.

some of these scary posts indicate this belief is still alive and well.

 

[pharmguy]

Well, Israel can take comfort in the fact that they have nukes......

you can hate all you want, but if someone takes Israel out, they take themselves out too.

 

[[email protected]]

Russia and the Belin wall... BAD Bastards how could they!!

Isreal and their wall... Good idea, you're the best... way to go!

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Russia and the Belin wall... BAD Bastards how could they!!

Isreal and their wall... Good idea, you're the best... way to go!

If you don't understand the differences between the political climate of north-cnetral europe and the middle east, you're a simpleton.

Shall we assume you were just being silly? Or are you really that uninformed?

 

[spongebob]

Nope not the problem at all.

The problem is that the UN gave the jews a nation in the middle of a set of countries that hate jews more than Hitler did.

The problem is Ariel Sharon is more extreme than the Palestinians.

The problem is that the US is a zionist nation and will back those fucks regardless of how many times they slaughter people in refugee camps.

lets see,
1. check
2. check
3. check

nope not a problem.