Cardio - let's talk , how much , how often and intensity level .

[VictorBR]

Good thread for a good debate .

The last cardio thread was some time ago , so I decided to create this one so we can all learn from each other here

So , I will start by saying my opinion , how it works for me .

I am a believer in the theory , CALS in VS CALS out . So I do believe that the high intensity cardio , ( HIT ) will burn more calories than the low-intensity cardio ( those long 1 hour sessions , very slow paced ) . I don't believe in the burn muscle or fat for fuel . I don't think you will burn muscle protein to use as fuel unless you are VERY , VERY LEAN , around 6 % ... I do think that our body will always first rely on muscle and liver glycogen and body fat to use as fuel BEFORE breaking protein from muscle .

so , when using cardio to cut I always rely on high intensity . I believe that There are also more reasons to :

1- It is a LOT less boring, sprinting on the threadmill or soft sand and spinning is a lot more funny and challenging than walking in the threadmill for 1 hour .

2- Since it is high intensity the sessions are shorter , like 30 minutes max , no need to do it for 1 hour , even if you want to , you won't be able to .

3- I always do my cardio after my weight training , or after a protein + fat meal since my glycogen levels are low at both times .

4- I am reading a book by Dr Mauro Dipasquale ( he knows his shit ) and he said that studies ( and the studies are on the book ) have shown that HIT is anabolic . Why ? Because it makes you release a whole bunch of anabolic hormones while doing it , like HGH and others .

this theory has worked for me , since when doing HIT and I am on caloric deficit , I am not even using AAS and I am not losing any muscle mass . this is the only kind of aerobics I do and so far I have lost 44 lbs of pure fat .

I was wondering , that this thing has to be true .

Have you seen those athletes , 100 meters sprinters ? They are freaking jacked , huge , lean and dense . OK , some of them may not be natural after all , we all know this , but the training has to be a factor .

Now , have you seen marathon runners ? They look weak , flat , small and not that lean .

So , let's get it started guys , give me your opinions .


Victor

 

[bullcocky]

My opinion from experience is that this is correct as far as shortening your cardio sessions, but if you are heavy with muscle, water and some fat like after a bulking cycle...your ankles and feet may become sore when running on a tread mill so you would have to start off with a fast walk until you get to where you want to be weightwise; then you can do a fast pace session with running at about a 4.0-4.5 on the tread mill at about a 4.0 on the incline because your body can handle it w/o the the pain.

 

[VictorBR]

You made a very solid point , since I completly forgot that some bodybuilders are so heavy and outta shape that they simply can't sprint .

some of them would die doing some serious sprinting .


Victor

 

[Paulo]

Have you seen those athletes , 100 meters sprinters ? They are freaking jacked , huge , lean and dense . OK , some of them may not be natural after all , we all know this , but the training has to be a factor .

Now , have you seen marathon runners ? They look weak , flat , small and not that lean .

So , let's get it started guys , give me your opinions .


Victor

I think the body composition differences between sprinters and marathon runners hinges on genetic dispositions. Predominance of either fast or slow twitch fibers. There are people who are more adept at explosive, short-burst type energy release and then there are those that aren't so good at that but can maintain a constant stride for seemingly endless distance. I've always found myself in the sprinter category as you will find a lot of bodybuilder types. Marathon runners may be very strong and efficient, however in general, their body types don't lend to stellar aesthetics (not saying mine does, lol).

Of course, there are always exceptions and given enough drive and training, a sprinter may be able to compete in a marathon, and vice versa.

But, to comment on the actual thread topic, It has been shown that HIIT is far more effective to suit our purposes. I feel that the anabolic side of it has to do with the explosive use of our muscles, which in a sense, is quite similar to weight lifting. I don't really do much leg work outside of the HIIT I do on my mountain bike, actually.

 

[VictorBR]

I think the body composition differences between sprinters and marathon runners hinges on genetic dispositions. Predominance of either fast or slow twitch fibers. There are people who are more adept at explosive, short-burst type energy release and then there are those that aren't so good at that but can maintain a constant stride for seemingly endless distance. I've always found myself in the sprinter category as you will find a lot of bodybuilder types. Marathon runners may be very strong and efficient, however in general, their body types don't lend to stellar aesthetics (not saying mine does, lol).

Of course, there are always exceptions and given enough drive and training, a sprinter may be able to compete in a marathon, and vice versa.

But, to comment on the actual thread topic, It has been shown that HIIT is far more effective to suit our purposes. I feel that the anabolic side of it has to do with the explosive use of our muscles, which in a sense, is quite similar to weight lifting. I don't really do much leg work outside of the HIIT I do on my mountain bike, actually.

>>> So true , the body composition probably also plays a BIG ROLE . I am also like that I can explode with short , fast and intense bursts VERY well , but when it comes to long sessions , distance , I suck ass .

I think that some of us knows that HIT is better , but I think most of the bodybuilders are still doing the old type of cardio , the slow paced , long one .


HIT is anabolic and burn more cals , one might argue that the calories are not coming from your stored body fat and coming from glycogen and muscle protein since you are always way above 65 % MHR , but I simply don't agree or believe in this theory ...like I said , our body will use glycogen and body fat all the time as energy source , he will search for muscle protein only as a LAST option . So if you are above 6 % , you have no worries ..... now if you are 4 % , your body might start using muscle protein as energy source since you almost have zero fat on you .

BUt anyway someone with 4 % shouldn't be doing any typo of cardio after all ;... LOL or just make sure you have enough glycogen inside your muscles and liver and you will be ok . You will burn the glycogen not the muscle . After the glycogen is over ,since you are 4 % , you might burn some muscle ...but if you are really full of glycogen this will not happen ...


Victor

 

[WannaImpress]

Very nice read VictorBR. I'm a big believer myself in HIIT cardio first thing in the morning, you gotta love the intensity of it and do be able to burn the same amount of calories in 1/2 the time.

 

[initagain]

I almost hate to say but i did reaD Body for life by Phillips. The one thing i do use is his cardio techniques. HIT is the key....

I usually use a treadmill or a glidder. I will go at a low intensity for 2 minutes, then sprint for 1 minute, and continue this cycle for 30 minutes. If i am in a really energenic mode i will go at different intervals. I hate cardio but i am a naturally big guy so I have to do it. Even when i am on a cycle I will maintain cardio.

I do it in the morning on an empty stomach, an old military theory that you burn more when your stomach is empty. I use the equipment at my apartment for cardio. Then when I am done I immediatley eat my morning meal. Either some egg whites or a good shake.

 

[rbtrout]

I totally agree! I've actually asked about cardio and/or meds to help out, but have found in my experience; limited as it is; that one 20 miniute session of intense (as hard as I can push it) cardio, 3 times a week works better than the 30+ minutes every day of the watch TV while you 'exercise' routine that lots do. Think about it. All of those type people you see at the gym always look the same.

 

[VictorBR]

gosh , nice everyone agrees with me so far ..

I think some of them are not doing it because they simply can't

Can you imagine a guy like Ronnie Coleman SPRINTING !??!

LOL , I can't .


Victor

 

[psychedout]

Here's how I do cardio.

6x a week (after every workout) on whatever machine for however long -- just until I hit 200 calories burned. Usually ~15 mins on incline tread or 15 mins on the elyptical. Sometimes I sprint and get it over with in sub 10 minutes though.

Keeping things simple.

 

[NYBodyguard]

Here's how I do cardio.

6x a week (after every workout) on whatever machine for however long -- just until I hit 200 calories burned. Usually ~15 mins on incline tread or 15 mins on the elyptical. Sometimes I sprint and get it over with in sub 10 minutes though.

Keeping things simple.

i do the same 2-3 times a week

 

[StereOMaN]

3- I always do my cardio after my weight training , or after a protein + fat meal since my glycogen levels are low at both times .

I almost always do the same, except sometimes I do cardio high intensity right in the morning before breakfast. Same principle. But doing it after a solid workout, does require a decent little carb meal afterwards, to leave some cals for tissue repair, no? Good Thread bro!

 

[Outtlaw]

Marathon runners are burning carbs and protein... not so much fat because they are running for hours on end. Yes, you can burn more calories going high intensity but you're forgetting that the determining factor as to the type of fuel your body uses is the amount of oxygen present. When you do HIT, you put the body in an oxygen deficit causing it to burn mostly carbs during that time. Over all it doesnt matter. Both types of cardio will work provided your diet is on point.

 

[The Terminator]

I dont do any cardio (except sex about 3-4 times a week), and even that drains me, lol )

 

[Frango]

I go for low intensity 45-60min sessions in no lifting days and 30min after lifting.
Hi intensity kills my performance in the weightroom, even done in separate days.

Oh yeah I take bjj 4-5 times a week, it is enough hi intensity lol.

 

[carlsky]

I just do 2 times a week, 15minutes of intense, hard as I can, on the stair stepper and I get ripped to shredds while keeping strength. WAAAAAAAy better than long distance runnig!

 

[StereOMaN]

I'm not as much a fan of running, although when I did go running I just do 45 jog 6-7days/week, and ya I don't see very much results from it. But of late I've been takeing more to swimming, doing a solid hour 5 days a week is amazing I love it and will never go back. Droped 15lbs fat in 2months au natural. And it helped with muscle toning all over my body. Best exercise!

 

[DIVISION]

I don't run any longer........it's just not beneficial for me keeping strength.

The only cardio I do is powerwalking....3miles+ in 45. min.....

It's the best thing for fatburning that I've found........all running did was drain me and keep my strength down.



DIV

 

[gregory]

HIT cardio is the key for me to burn fat. I have wasted countless hours trying to loose the fat with your standard jogging. First off I'm 6'3 in height. Jogging for me is pure mental torture. I just can't zone out. I look at the time every 30 seconds and think "shit it's only been 30 seconds? Feels like 10 min" You know the deal. Then all those cardio sessions laft me with was a overtrained mental state, flat muscles and slightly more flab. As soon as i switched to HIT, where i do 20 min 4 times per week, with 2 minutes fast walk and 30 seconds very fast sprint repeated till i got to 20 min. This i feel really works, it's not draining mentally and keeps my muscles full and hard, the fat just mealts off.

 

[JKurz1]

when I'm bulkiing (now) I do 20 minutes MAX on the elliptical, 30 second-1min. intervals.....starting on 8, 9, 10 etc. 30 second sprints, then back to 7 for 30 seconds light glide.........HR is up in the 75-85% zone........137-165

When cutting, I use the treadmill (incline walk) or elliptical set around 7 for 35 minutes, max HR is 65%..........130-140...........

Sometimes, when bulking I toss in another 15 minute HIIT post workout as I'm trying to cut my training to 45 min. max!

 

[VictorBR]

I dont do any cardio (except sex about 3-4 times a week), and even that drains me, lol )

I hate all you ectomorphs that don't need to bust your ass on the threadmill to get LEAN !

LOL

Victor

 

[Judo Tom]

what has worked best for me in general is

if cutting then use HIIT since it burns more total cals

if going all out bulking then i use slow and steady cardio as it should preserve more muscle glycogen

this is for me when im trying to bulk i dont need extra cardio but i cant get fat either (Weight classes) and im already at or past my genetic potential and i think that the 'stress' from more hit sessions reduces my LBm gains..

 

[JKurz1]

what has worked best for me in general is

if cutting then use HIIT since it burns more total cals

if going all out bulking then i use slow and steady cardio as it should preserve more muscle glycogen

this is for me when im trying to bulk i dont need extra cardio but i cant get fat either (Weight classes) and im already at or past my genetic potential and i think that the 'stress' from more hit sessions reduces my LBm gains..

Nahhhh bro............fat is burned after 20 minutes at 65-75% (cutting) while HIIT (if done 8 hours before training) will allow you to eat more, as you are correct, it burns more cals throughout the day..........try it the other way and see......

 

[slat1]

I just use cardio when I have been bad on my diet. You can get to 6% without any cardio what so ever. Just eat right and work out hard. I hate doing cardio... I like the feeling after though. I am just too lazy to consistently do it.

 

[ryan04]

I ride 20 or 30 mins. on the bike high intensity 4 0r 5 times a week after I lift. Works for me. I get shinsplints when I run, plus I walk around on campus all day so my shins can't handle running. The bike works good for me though. I've done 45 mins. on the bike with lower intensity 5 times a week in the past and that seemed to start eating up some muscle, but it could also be that i was dieting and didn't adjust my calories accordingly (or maybe it was all in my head). Running long distance is for thin people and short people, not somewhat tall, beefy people...bodies can't handle it.

 

[JKurz1]

I just use cardio when I have been bad on my diet. You can get to 6% without any cardio what so ever. Just eat right and work out hard. I hate doing cardio... I like the feeling after though. I am just too lazy to consistently do it.

I'm sort of the same way.......I use it because I eat my last meal of cottage cheese and peanuts about 5 minutes before I crash.....so come the morning....I feel like shit if I eat again without doing cardio.........vicious cycle........thats why ive been doing it 7 days a week now forever!

 

[Judo Tom]

Nahhhh bro............fat is burned after 20 minutes at 65-75% (cutting) while HIIT (if done 8 hours before training) will allow you to eat more, as you are correct, it burns more cals throughout the day..........try it the other way and see......

and again this is how it works for me.. i already have 6 grueling cardio sessions a week that are 2+ hrs long and half of each sessionis normally fighting/sparring which is like 90% max hear rate

the longer slow sessions also help me recover.. i warm up on the machine for 10 mins then drink my shake during the next 15 i really like doing these after weights but before judo

i also have stayed under 10% for almost 3 years now which really helps cause i never have too much fat to lose so even when i look fat i normally only have to clean things up for 2-3 weeks and im ripped up again

 

[Djicy]

I do fun cardio play basketball 2-3 times a week for 2 hours, or do some outdoor jogging 2-3 times a week. I try to do it 5 times a week and keep it fun. I can't run on a treadmill hurts me legs and calves. I always ride the bike for about 10-15 after a workout just for a cool down and burn some cals.

 

[Djicy]

And BTW this is a good thread I'm always curious to see what the bigger guys do if they do any at all.