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Carao, SHBG, and great erections

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SofaGeorge

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Carao and SHBG - floating a theory

Nelson Montana started a thread here where he discussed proviron and avena sativa as substances that would affect Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG.) SHBG is that sticky stuff that bonds testosterone to carrier proteins and makes it useless.

I'm sure many of you have experienced doing a high dose test cycle and seen minimal gains. I've addressed many issues bacause of this. Was I getting enough protein? Was I training hard enough? Etc...

What I find interesting about Nelson's comment on SHBG and how it could affect a test cycle is its simplicity and its sensibility. It makes sense. It makes plain and simple sense.

It also, possbily, is beginning to explain some of the aspects of carao that have remained a mystery to me. There has been much comparing of notes between carao users via email, but little posted about what we call carao's "Secret Side Effect." Stated simply: everybody is getting erections and horny as hell. This isn't surprising. In Costa Rica this is actually what carao is famous for. It has long been known as the aphrodisiac of Central America.

For the most part I dismissed this idea early on. I attributed the "aphrodisiac" claims simply to improved health and well being in a third world environment where nutrition is poor. Then, I started to notice the phenomena called "spontaneous erections" myself, morning always. This isn't unusual for someone who is 17, but I'm 43 and had those years long behind me.

One of the early users of carao was 44 (he can identify himself if he wants.) He wrote to me that he had the same observations, along with the improved lifts and endurance he was getting frequent spontaneous erections and "morning wood."

Then I started getting more emails, including two from women who say that for them the increased libido is very noticable.

Okay, now my eyes are open. The phenomena is very real and being experienced by many people - but why is it happening? (It also seemed to coincide with the feeling that my nuts came back online without clomid or HCG after my last cycle... and several other carao users pointed out that they came back online much more easily. What could cause this?)

Then I read Nelson Montana's thread where he discussed proviron, avena sativa, and SHBG. A light bulb went on.

Could carao possibly affect SHBG?

I had already attributed the increased vascularity form carao to enhanced RBC and had assumed the same increased RBC might explain the improved endurance (like blood doping or EPO) but I still had never been able to explain the sexual sides. Simply stated, I always felt like I was on test when I used carao, but I wasn't getting any estrogenic sides. It just felt like good clean test.

This would be the effect of increased free testosterone. When testosterone becomes bonded to a carrier protein it becomes useless. You have to have free testosterone to have sexual interest, sexual function, and in the case of AAS improved strength and muscle mass. Free testosterone does not create more testosterone in the body (leading to estrogen.) It simply makes more testosterone available for use.

I am currently on 2,000mg test wk/100mg winstrol ED. I was taking 2,000mg test wk/400mg deca wk/50mg d-bol ED. For the first 8 weeks of this cycle I was also taking about one tablespoon of carao ED or EOD. About two to three weeks ago my carao supply began to dwindle... then I ran out.

I've got to back up here and give some background information: as I said earlier I am 43 years old. I am currently 6'4" and 240lbs. I have been juicing for almost 20 years, and by this time I know my body and cycles extremely well. I had plateued years ago in strength and size gains. I'd go up. I'd go down. But I would never really exceed the strength gains I had made in the past.

Until this year...

This year, about 3-4 weeks after finishing a fina/whinny/test cycle I noticed my strength going up to all time PR highs. These gains continued until I started my current cycle in mid-October and were continuing until about two weeks ago. Then I ran out of carao and at about the same time my gains stopped. (I've just ordered 4 more bottles... so I will have a clear picture in January if my gains kick back in. And YES, to the observant, I do very long cycles.)

My question now is:

Does carao affect SHBG and does this explain why and how I made some of the gains I experienced - most importantly does this explain why I continued to grow well on 2,000 mg of test when I had previously peaked out?

If carao affects SHBG this would explain why so many of us carao users have been walking around for the last many months like horn dogs ready to hump wood. The sexual enhancement aspects of carao are definite and noticable, maybe to the point of distraction. (But that is fun for some.) Its just very interesting to me that Nelson's theory might explain why I woke up this morning with a woody.

Can anyone offer any suggestions for practical tests to determine this? I would be very interested in any comments or ideas.
 
I ordered 2 bottles last week. I will be using it in my bridge with slin/creatine/glutamine/avena sativa(beyond-a-century)
 
SofaGeorge said:
Can anyone offer any suggestions for practical tests to determine this? I would be very interested in any comments or ideas.
Click to expand...

WOW, now that is some seriously interesting information. :p

I have a follow up appt. in two weeks with my doc who has just recently put me on permanent test HRT. This appt is to check to see if the initially prescribed dose of 200mg eow will be sufficient. To verify this he will be re-doing all of my blood work. He did SHBG the first time so I'm thinking he'll also do it a second time. If not I'll ask him to. I'm not positive what it was the first time but I'm pretty sure it was high normal. What I could do if you think it may be helpful is use that test as a baseline and then go on 6 or so weeks of Carao and then re-take the SHBG test even if I have to get it from lef.org or someplace. I don't know of any other way of doing it specifically for SHBG. Either way I'll be placing an order for some Carao asap.

Great info SG and thanks for bringing Carao to light! That really was a HUGE find. :)

One last thing I wonder how Carao affects women. Any females try it yet? I'd like to put my wife on it.
 
Re: Re: Carao, SHBG, and great erections

40butpumpin said:


WOW, now that is some seriously interesting information. :p

I have a follow up appt. in two weeks with my doc who has just recently put me on permanent test HRT. This appt is to check to see if the initially prescribed dose of 200mg eow will be sufficient. To verify this he will be re-doing all of my blood work. He did SHBG the first time so I'm thinking he'll also do it a second time. If not I'll ask him to. I'm not positive what it was the first time but I'm pretty sure it was high normal. What I could do if you think it may be helpful is use that test as a baseline and then go on 6 or so weeks of Carao and then re-take the SHBG test even if I have to get it from lef.org or someplace. I don't know of any other way of doing it specifically for SHBG. Either way I'll be placing an order for some Carao asap.

Great info SG and thanks for bringing Carao to light! That really was a HUGE find. :)

One last thing I wonder how Carao affects women. Any females try it yet? I'd like to put my wife on it.
Click to expand...

40butpumpin,

Can you find out how much the SHBG test costs and post the amount? I think we need to try to get as many people as we can to take the test.

And YES... there is feedback from a couple women users here on the boards. Hopefully they will post up themselves... so I'll wait for them to comment.
 
40butpumpin said:
SG one question, how long will one 365ml bottle (74 teaspoons) last me at an effective dose?
Click to expand...

We aren't sure. Irondawg and I have been steadily dropping our doses... and the effects seem the same at lower doses.

The cattle studies had them giving carao to the calves only once a week with astounding results.

So, most of us have been taking about a tablespoon a day (which lasts about 3 weeks) but that may be much more than you need.

Optimum/minimum dose jsut isn't established yet.

Oddly, when I first started using carao I was taking the cane syrup/carao extract mix. I was taking about a tablespoon which was half strength carao (1 1/2 teaspoons of pure carao extract per tablespoon of the mix.) I didn't realize till just recently that I had gotten my initial results on just 1 1/2 teaspoons a day, but this might explain why we've been able to lower and lower the does and still see results.

I'm prepping an article to post here about a Costa Rican strong man who is a long term carao user. He takes just a teaspoon a day and thinks we are all nuts to be taking a tablespoon (way to much to him.) It sort of rings of the low dose/high dose cycle debates.

My question now is going to be if 1 tablespoon might give greater SHBG effect. If it does I'm going to switch back to the higher dose.
 
I think that getting free test results would be fine. We can deduct that either SHBH was reduced or the carao is somehow occupying the SHBH site allow more free test to circulate.
 
Re: Re: Re: Carao, SHBG, and great erections

SofaGeorge said:


40butpumpin,

Can you find out how much the SHBG test costs and post the amount? I think we need to try to get as many people as we can to take the test.

And YES... there is feedback from a couple women users here on the boards. Hopefully they will post up themselves... so I'll wait for them to comment.
Click to expand...

I called Quest Diagnostics (I think they're national but I'm not sure). They were $107.

I also called the lab at LEF.org and they are $90 for non-members and $70 for members (I'm a member). By the way if you call lef ask to talk to the lab for the blood test as this is not one of the ones they ordinarily offer so a phone person might send you away unnecessarily.

I also called LabCorp which I'm pretty sure is national and they were out to lunch. lol I'll check on them later, I need to run my son to the doc's right now. :)
 
Though I'm pretty young, Ive also noticed that carao will give you that 'rock hard' effect in seconds...whereas normally I'd have to be more than just casually horny for that to happen...I'm also curious as to why this is...perhaps if not SHBG, it is a combination of increased dopamine and increased RBC causing this, but I'm not sure that would explain the constant effect... but I do know you feel good about 30-40 min after taking a dose of the carao.
 
Frackal, good point it could have an effect on dopamine levels. That is why ghb/gbl/1,4 but makes your horny. Dopamine is a major key to sex drive. When I was on Celexa(SSRI), I had no sex drive, but when my doc added Welbuterin SR, which raises dopamine levels as well as seratonin, I got my sex drive back.

I would be very interested to know if there is a cost effective test for dopamine.
 
question for carao gurus

I picked up some carao in November intending to use it as part of a post-cycle regimen. I'm curious how I can tell if it is pure extract or the syrup mix? I doubt there is any syrup in it becuase it is by far the most disgusting smelling/tasting concoction I have ever ingested... How do you guys deal with the taste, I know it is not supposed to be mixed with milk, how about orange juice or something?
 
Sounds interesting.

However, sexual function i.e. erections is controlled by nitric oxide mostly.

Viagra and Cialis target this function.

Fonz
 
Fonz said:
Sounds interesting.

However, sexual function i.e. erections is controlled by nitric oxide mostly.

Viagra and Cialis target this function.

Fonz
Click to expand...

Nitric Oxide has a lot to do with blood flow, but if your not aroused, you wont get hard. Thats where free test and dopamine come into play. I dont think GHB has any effects on NO, but it makes me horny and gives me a rock hard errection.

I think carao is very interesting and I cant wait for my bottles.
 
Hi guys-heres my observations on carao. Background info: female,44 yrs old, lifting for 5years, no aas use. I began the carao 11-25-02. I am in a gaining mode.Other than the carao, I am using no supps at this time. Workout at the time was final week of 5rm portion of hst training and light cardio-hiking. Next 9 days were stratigic deconditioning, no lifting , only hiking. What I noticed at the begining was an increase of endurance during hiking, percieved effort was very low. Seems very difficult to get out of breath, but since cardio is really not abig part of my wo now , I havent really been hiking the miles as I do in the summer. Within one week my libidio had increased noticebly. quite a nice surprise.

Now am back in the gym doing the first week of 15rm portion of the hst program. Once I get further into the program, especially the 8-10rm part I'll have a better idea of how the carao affects my strength.

I suspect that carao has a real effect on endurance, I have no idea as to how it works to increase libido. How does SHBG work in women, if it does?

Dosage is one tablespoon per day, although I too feel that that is too much. I plan on cutting it down to 1 1/2 teaspoon. Can see that it doesnt need to be taken everyday.

I will post up my lifting results in a few weeks-Valerie
 
valerie said:
Hi guys-heres my observations on carao. Background info: female,44 yrs old, lifting for 5years, no aas use. I began the carao 11-25-02. I am in a gaining mode.Other than the carao, I am using no supps at this time. Workout at the time was final week of 5rm portion of hst training and light cardio-hiking. Next 9 days were stratigic deconditioning, no lifting , only hiking. What I noticed at the begining was an increase of endurance during hiking, percieved effort was very low. Seems very difficult to get out of breath, but since cardio is really not abig part of my wo now , I havent really been hiking the miles as I do in the summer. Within one week my libidio had increased noticebly. quite a nice surprise.

Now am back in the gym doing the first week of 15rm portion of the hst program. Once I get further into the program, especially the 8-10rm part I'll have a better idea of how the carao affects my strength.

I suspect that carao has a real effect on endurance, I have no idea as to how it works to increase libido. How does SHBG work in women, if it does?

Dosage is one tablespoon per day, although I too feel that that is too much. I plan on cutting it down to 1 1/2 teaspoon. Can see that it doesnt need to be taken everyday.

I will post up my lifting results in a few weeks-Valerie
Click to expand...

So you're saying it has positively affected your libido then? Sorry, I couldn't tell if you were saying that or not.
 
valerie said:
I suspect that carao has a real effect on endurance, I have no idea as to how it works to increase libido. How does SHBG work in women, if it does?
Click to expand...

I studied this extensively prior to the market launch of avena sativa back in 1995-96. (I even paid a Japanese kid to translate the Asian studies for me.)

In a nutshell, women appear to respond much more strongly than men to increased free testosterone. A small rise will increase a man's libido. The same increase will send a woman's libido through the roof. There also appears to be an increased appreciation of tactile stimulation (touch feels better.) Women in the two IASHS studies reported increased lubrication and intensification of orgasms. (My wife became famous for the line "Orgasms are Technicolor!")

Efficacious avena sativa extract is no longer available to the consumer. It never made it to market launch (long story) but by appearance carao extract may be a more powerful SHBG inhibitor and give even greater effect.
 
Anyone recommend any good sites to get carao? Also would it be better to take it during or post cycle or both?
 
icelandic said:
George, how do you deal with the taste? Do you just suck it up or are you mixing it with something?
Click to expand...

I got used to it after a while, but my girlfriend can't stand it. She won't even come near me when I have "carao breath."

I just take a spoon of it then swallow some water. After you've been on it a while it gets to be okay.
 
Thanks for the explanation SG. I was'nt quite sure how to put it but the carao has definetly heated things up for me or to be blunt about it the stuff makes me horny.-valerie
 
valerie said:
Thanks for the explanation SG. I was'nt quite sure how to put it but the carao has definetly heated things up for me or to be blunt about it the stuff makes me horny.-valerie
Click to expand...

I started getting emails about this from people months ago... when I first started posting about carao. Everybody was getting horny... guys getting erections... and each one thought it was only them. Irondawg and I have kidding each other for three months that neither of us was going to be the first one to mention it.

The real hoot of this has been that Lloyd the carao guy has been getting emails asking about this. I don't know how to say it other than lloyd is an innocent. He lives in a very different world than ours... with a very different culture... and suddenly he is getting emails from guys asking him if carao is supposed to give them erections and women asking if this stuff is supposed to make them horny.

:lmao: :lmao: :busy: :lmao: :lmao:

I don't think Lloyd has had a clue what to say other than, "Well, yes, that is part of the local lore about carao."

Carao is a big time aphrodisiac in Costa Rica. lloyd has written to me about how people talk about it... but I don't know if the comments will translate well. It's sort of like: "Your eating carao? Well, woo-hoo! Hope you've got a cutie at home." (Third world humor is difficult to translate.)
 
AND THE PLOT THICKENS!

Good post. And since most of it is speculative -- albiet, intelligent speculations, I'd like to throw some thoughts into the mix.

First of all, libido is extremely complex process. There are dozens of variables involved. Although free test is a part of it, that doesn't mean that somethng that increass libido increses freeT and vice versa. It's impossible to guage.

As "Lawn" mentioned, nitric oxide just provides blood flow to the genitals (as does yohimbine). Many things contain Nitric oxide, including arginine and NAC. But they wont do jack for libido or free T.

Dopmine is indeed a factor. An herb that is also known as a sexulal stimulent is "Mucana Puriens', and it too is thought to increase dopamine levels.

I'm not familiar with carao but from what I understand it's a "blood builder" which I find very interesting for several reasons.

Lack of RBC is a common cause of impotence but since anemia is virtually non-existant today and iron supplements can be toxic, the use of supplemental iron has fallen out of favor, even though old time bodybuildrs used them regularly. Iron increases strength (think "Popeye" _- Spinich was a cheap form of iron during the war when meat was unavailable) Iron also increases blood volume and appitite. Now, is there anything else you know of that does the same things? You guessed it -- good ol' anabolic steroids...which incidentally also increase red blood count.

Now this creates a paradox. Anyone using gear has to be careful of their RBC. If it gets too high, the platlets thicken and it can cause a stroke. So I have some concern with the carao along with a cycle. I'm assuming the carao must contain iron is some form. If it's hemme iron, it's less toxic than ferrus sulfate, which is in most "vitamin/mineral formulas. (Decicatted liver also contains heem iron) It may also contain B-12 which is necessary for the formation of red blood cells.

So anyone who got a "boner boost" from carao might just be a little deficient in RBC. It's not that unusual. Does anyone know the actual ingredints in Carao?

Having said that, I'm going to give Carao a try. And since I go for blood tests every few months, I'm going to keep an eye out for the platlet count. Of course, if your teeth start tuning brown, that means you've overdosed on iron!

But for now, I'm going to guess that Carao doesn't release free T. But that's just a guess. Then again, if it helps, it helps.

At any rate, isn't it great that we live in a time where we have things like viagra and aphrodesiac herbs and HRT? It makes growing older suck just a little less. Of course in ten years, all this stuff is going to be looked on as so primitive. This generation of bodybuilders are the true pioneers of life/youth extension.
 
And, oh yeah...

No need to deal with the taste. Just pour some into a capsule and swallow the cap.
 
I've experienced this effect with carao as well. I do have to admit, for me, the effect was much, much stronger when I was stacking it with nolva and maca as part of post-cycle therapy.

It does seem to increase cardio endurance and vascularity.

Personally, I like the taste. Just spoon it down straight. Tried to get my wife on it, but she tried it once and now won't go near it (taste).
 
Nelson-I don't believe the carao contains any iron as it is a plant extract. It is pure carao extract, Cassia grandis is the latin name.
 
Nelson Montana said:
And, oh yeah...

No need to deal with the taste. Just pour some into a capsule and swallow the cap.
Click to expand...


Already thought of this. A teaspoon is 5 ml; a tablespoon is 15 ml; one would have to eat a lot of caps...

Also, it wouldn't pour well into a cap -- too thick. It might inject with an 18 ga.
 
This is strange SG...I've been noticing exactly what you're talking about. I feel like I'm a freshmen in high school again...hahaha....I never thought to attribute it to the carao though.


And for people wondering how to take it...just pour it into a normal kitchen spoon and swallow...chase with water if you need to. The first few days it was pretty bad, but now it's been like 10 days and I just swallow it with no problem...I actually don't mind the taste anymore.
 
Now this creates a paradox. Anyone using gear has to be careful of their RBC. If it gets too high, the platlets thicken and it can cause a stroke.

So anyone who got a "boner boost" from carao might just be a little deficient in RBC. It's not that unusual. Does anyone know the actual ingredints in Carao?

Having said that, I'm going to give Carao a try. And since I go for blood tests every few months, I'm going to keep an eye out for the platlet count.


Nelson,
Slight correction here. It is the increased hematocrit (percentage RBC's) that decreases blood flow, not the platelets. Flow is inversely proportional to viscosity; the main determinant of viscosity in our blood will be RBC's; increased RBC= increased viscosity=decreased blood flow. I'm not aware that increased hematocrit is associated w/ any platelet "thickening", and certainly not w/ an increase in platelet count.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Now this creates a paradox. Anyone using gear has to be careful of their RBC. If it gets too high, the platlets thicken and it can cause a stroke. So I have some concern with the carao along with a cycle.
Click to expand...

Nelson, I thought about that also. While we don't know for absolutely sure that this is taking place, supp's like garlic, fish oil and a low dose aspirin (there's a product called "Healthprin" which is only 81mg of aspirin) which can greately reduce abnormal platelet aggregation and prevent cells from getting "sticky." We should be taking these anyway, Carao or not, IMO.

JG1 that's an excellent question, bro, I don't know who would have the answer for that.
 
I stand corrected doc. I was under the impression that platlet count measured visccosity and viscosity was determined by RBC since an increased RBC affects blood flow (I know we're splitting hairs here folks, bear with us). At any rate, the dangers exist...IF, carao does indeed increase RBC.

Valarie. It may be a plant extract but it can still cotain iron. (Spinich contains iron) I don't know how the Costo Rican FDA labels things -- if they even have an FDA. And again, I'm just speculatng. It may not contain iron at all.

Blood thinners like aspirin will thin the blood and prevent strokes and hheart attacks, but keepng the arteries clean and open is preferable to thinning the blood in order for it to flow through clogged arteries. BTW, weight training keeps arteries open and strong thank you very much. But excessive roid use damages them. :(

Sounds like carao is something worth doing a test on. Then again, the active ingredient may not even be something that is known.
 
I recall Lloyd mentioning in an email that there is very little (if any) iron in carao extract. What baffles me is that this stuff is the preferred course of treatment for anemia in much of central and south america. We could settle this once and for all though, anyone have access to an HPLC lab?
 
Nelson Montana said:
Having said that, I'm going to give Carao a try. And since I go for blood tests every few months, I'm going to keep an eye out for the platlet count. Of course, if your teeth start tuning brown, that means you've overdosed on iron!
Click to expand...

Nelson, if you are going to try carao... order quickly. As of last count there were only about 200 bottles left. After it is gone there will be no more till harvest season in March. (Lloyd the carao guy is letting us reserve bottles out of the 200 left.. so if you want him to hold some for you just email him.)

If you do a SEARCH on past threads here you will find about as much info as is available. We've been pulling teeth to piece together very scanty information on it since last summer. The best research other than the anecdotal stuff so far has come from Fonz.

To the best of anyone's knowledge the amount of iron in carao is minimal... high for a plant... but about like that found in spinach and not remotely high enough to cause a problem.

Please post whatever you can discover. Many of us are carao info hounds here.
 
icelandic said:
I recall Lloyd mentioning in an email that there is very little (if any) iron in carao extract. What baffles me is that this stuff is the preferred course of treatment for anemia in much of central and south america. We could settle this once and for all though, anyone have access to an HPLC lab?
Click to expand...

Somebody said they were going to get the tests in an earlier thread... but I don't think they ever posted the results.
 
i just ordered 3 365ml bottles....you figure they will last me through the last 8 weeks of my cycle (figure 2-3 weeks shipping at this time of year), the month or so off cycle, and for the 8 week cycle following off time? so that is about 5 months....not sure how long 3 of the big bottles last at minimum dosage. using proviron during the whole 13 week cycle here now, and as far into the post cycle as i can go also with it. and may get more proviron to use post cycle and next cycle too. anyway....hope i ordered enough to last for these two cycles and the off time, and let me know if i should be using it during and post cycle or not....wasn't clear on that point.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
i just ordered 3 365ml bottles....you figure they will last me through the last 8 weeks of my cycle (figure 2-3 weeks shipping at this time of year), the month or so off cycle, and for the 8 week cycle following off time? so that is about 5 months....not sure how long 3 of the big bottles last at minimum dosage. using proviron during the whole 13 week cycle here now, and as far into the post cycle as i can go also with it. and may get more proviron to use post cycle and next cycle too. anyway....hope i ordered enough to last for these two cycles and the off time, and let me know if i should be using it during and post cycle or not....wasn't clear on that point.
Click to expand...

I emailed to get 4 bottles. I'm going to crank my dose back up to 1 tablespoon to 2 teaspoons a day during my cycle. I've got another 6-7 weeks at 2 grams a wk of test and 100mg EOD winny... then I'll be on EQ and deca for about 12 weeks.

For me a bottle seems to last 3-4 weeks... but I always measure my spoons low... probably only taking 2 teaspoons ED most times.

This whole thing that Nelson put forth about SHBG really has me intrigued and I want to see if this regime keeps me making gains all the way and lets me max my test.
 
SofaGeorge said:


I emailed to get 4 bottles. I'm going to crank my dose back up to 1 tablespoon to 2 teaspoons a day during my cycle. I've got another 6-7 weeks at 2 grams a wk of test and 100mg EOD winny... then I'll be on EQ and deca for about 12 weeks.

For me a bottle seems to last 3-4 weeks... but I always measure my spoons low... probably only taking 2 teaspoons ED most times.

This whole thing that Nelson put forth about SHBG really has me intrigued and I want to see if this regime keeps me making gains all the way and lets me max my test.
Click to expand...

well at 2 tbsps a day that would make a large bottle last 37 days. and 3 bottles last 111 days. so that would be almost 4 months. so maybe i'll just use it during the 8 weeks left when i get it, and then the 8 weeks of the next cycle. no usage on off time inbetween. or i could with 1 tbsp a day and use it for 7 months. :D you figure 2 tbsp a day is safe enough for effectiveness then huh? using it during the ending 8 wks of a dbol/anadrol/sust/EQ cycle, then during EQ/anadrol 8 wks for sure though. as well as the proviron.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
you figure 2 tbsp a day is safe enough for effectiveness then huh?
Click to expand...


I don't have any safety concerns about carao. Carao extract is given safely to pregnant women and small children and people have eaten carao for thousands of years. If there was a safety concern something would have shown up in the information available about it.
 
I'm only posting this because I'm ordering a shitload tomorrow, well, 4-5 bottles anyway which is all I can afford, but carao is by far the best natural supp I have ever taken in the way of increasing endurance, strength, and cosmetic pump and vascularity...it is the ultimate non hormonal bridging drug and when I combined it with insulin at only 6-7 ius 2x a week I had insane pumps and felt like I was on a cycle....
 
SofaGeorge said:


I don't have any safety concerns about carao. Carao extract is given safely to pregnant women and small children and people have eaten carao for thousands of years. If there was a safety concern something would have shown up in the information available about it.
Click to expand...

oh i meant safe enough to go that low and still get effectiveness. not safe enough as in side effects. :D
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:


oh i meant safe enough to go that low and still get effectiveness. not safe enough as in side effects. :D
Click to expand...

It might be interesting to test the high end of dose... maybe try four tablespoons a day to see if anything happens.
 
I'm going to bridge at the beginning of next year so I might use it and take blood tests, to see how exactly Carao affects me.
I've been scouring the internet for more published papers on carao, but have found none.
The probkem is that a country like Nicaragua has very little money for research.
And, just heard it via the World Bank, they're ex-dictator President just got arrested. Guy had $300 million salted away,
which he stole from the government. The Senate voted in favour of impeachement.

Fonz
 
Has anyone used Cassia Grandis to search

I searched for Cassia Grandis and found lots of studies and info, but some of it was in journals that where not online.

Lots if it had to do with other parts of the tree (not the seeds).

If someone has access to a major library, the internet can direct you to studies that I have not seen mentioned here (and I have not found on the net just reference to them).

There are even a few names of PhD candidates / graduates that have worked with Cassia Grandis.

This is just a possible direction if you have time and access to a large library. I finally gave up, but I was amazed by all the uses for this tree.

TOm
 
SofaGeorge said:


It might be interesting to test the high end of dose... maybe try four tablespoons a day to see if anything happens.
Click to expand...

i think i'll do 2 1/2 to 3 a day. hey, i use WAAAAAY to much shit right now.....so money is an issue. plus this stuff is going to be out of stock by the time i'd need more most likely. depending on "harvest season". so i'd better make it last. :D
 
Fonz said:
I'm going to bridge at the beginning of next year so I might use it and take blood tests, to see how exactly Carao affects me.
I've been scouring the internet for more published papers on carao, but have found none.Fonz
Click to expand...

Another element that is going to hamper research is that what scant little research that has been done on carao doesn't differentiate between types. With apples there are more than 10,000 variety of apples. If a study is done on an apple they identify the sub type (MacIntosh, Janigold, Red Delicious, etc...) With carao I don't even think the sub types have been catagorized.
 
SG -- I just ordered 4 of the BIG bottles of that stuff... I've heard great things about the strength gains, fullness and vascularity it can give to the muscles, not to mention how it makes you feel overall...

C-ditty
 
Oh yeah, SG... I was thinking about how long it would take to get here??? I think it said like 7-10 days... he threw in a smaller bottle for free!! :)

C-ditty
 
A very interesting question was posed on another forum. I am currently taking 2,000mg test wk and 100mg winny EOD. The poster suggested that perhaps it was the winny I ws taking that was affecting my SHBG.

This is my response (cross posted)
**********************************************
I'm using winny... but I only took my first shot 3 or 4 days ago. I added the winny after reading on Nelson's thread that it affected SHBG... so I wanted to get a couple weeks in of just winny before I get my next bottles of carao.

I notice that you stress ORAL winny. Wouldn't injectable work just the same? I took winny tabs back in August with my fina cycle. Now I'm booting 100mg per cc Black Label winny Monday-Wednesday-Friday. (I love Black Label... really miss those guys.)

I can start drinking it if it will make a difference.

When I got my original carao gains... they started 3-4 weeks after I finished my winny tabs. So I'm pretty sure it was the carao and not the winny that gave me the results. (Especially since I haven't used winny since then till now.)

I've also never had winny affect erections. Carao is definitely a sporting wood substance. It's hard to explain to someone who isn't 40... but it is very noticable at my age to see yourself getting instant erections and staying hard for no reason. It's somethign that happens a lot when you are 17... but at 40+ it's like "Hey! What's going on here?"

I qualify for lack of a better term as "highly knowledgeable" in the field of erectile dysfunction. I've done business planning and extensive consulting to two international chains of erectile dysfunction clinics... treatments ranging from ICP to viagra. I know that the response that I am seeing personally is not similar to dysfunction treatments... but I'm a little at loss to explain the difference. It's a definite libido raise with increased natural function... but it isn't an artificial lift. It's like a natural body response.
 
If in fact Carao does have an effect on SHBG then it would be a great asset to all juicers. It would be nice to see a lab test on Free test before and after Carao use.
 
Lloyd emailed me that a few people from here are giving carao to their wives/moms for anemia. Could anyone doing this please post their case history and results?
 
just ordered 3 bottles of it.

Does the syrup have any sugar in it, or is it 100% carao extrect?
 
JG1 said:
just ordered 3 bottles of it.

Does the syrup have any sugar in it, or is it 100% carao extrect?
Click to expand...

damn i think this thread will for sure exhaust the remaining supply before the months end. everyone is ordering 3-5 of these things. :D carao dude needs to hop up production here......get some mexicans or oriental sweat shop workers going on the harvesting. :D (j/k on making fun of mexicans and chinese people...:D)
 
JG1 said:
just ordered 3 bottles of it.

Does the syrup have any sugar in it, or is it 100% carao extrect?
Click to expand...

I talked Lloyd into bottling only the pure extract after trying the 50/50 syrup last summer. This was before I started posting here about it... so I don't think anybody from here ever even saw the 50/50 syrup.

This may have been a mistake on my part. I got my initial gains on the 50/50 syrup. I was taking about 1 tablespoon ED which means I was only getting about 1 1/2 teaspoons carao each spoon. This has led me to believe we may be taking more than we need since most people now are taking about twice that amount.
 
I hope lloyd throws in a couple of those coconut energy bars, t hose things are really tasty
 
Frackal said:
I hope lloyd throws in a couple of those coconut energy bars, t hose things are really tasty
Click to expand...

He sent me a couple chunks of the taffy. It tasted awesome good... but it is pure sugar cane. I can't eat that kind of carbs. I took four r-ALAs to try to offset it.
 
Should the carao be taken with food, or on an empty stomach...or does it even matter? Better to take it morning or night?...or perhaps 1tsp morning and night?
 
JG1 said:
Should the carao be taken with food, or on an empty stomach...or does it even matter? Better to take it morning or night?...or perhaps 1tsp morning and night?
Click to expand...

I haven't found any difference taking it with food or on an empty stomach. Splitting the dose may be better but we really don't know. Bottom line is we don't know the optimum dosing pattern yet.
 
Bumping for more responses. I'm leaving for the mountains for a week... be back Friday. I hope to see some more personal accounts when I get back.
 
SofaGeorge said:
Bumping for more responses. I'm leaving for the mountains for a week... be back Friday. I hope to see some more personal accounts when I get back.
Click to expand...

I may have missed it, but I just ordered 3 of the large bottles. What dose should I start out with a day? 1 Tablespoon or 1 teaspoon? Or maybe 2 teaspoons, one morning and one night? Or three teaspoons split up throughout the day?
 
I tablespoon/once a day <ANYTIME> and you should be fine! I take mine 1st thing inn the am mixed into my Isopure Shake.

In fact, a lot of you complain about taste: here's my breakfast mix that tastes pretty good:

3 Scoops of 0-carb ISOPURE Strawberry Flavor (75 gms Protein)
2 Tablespoons of Udo's Oil (or Flax)
1 Heaping Tablespoon of Carao
1 Packet of Equal/Sweet-n-Low/Stevia (NON carb sweeteners)
12-16 Ounces Water

Use blender-----YUM, YUM, YUM
 
EmptyWallet said:


I may have missed it, but I just ordered 3 of the large bottles. What dose should I start out with a day? 1 Tablespoon or 1 teaspoon? Or maybe 2 teaspoons, one morning and one night? Or three teaspoons split up throughout the day?
Click to expand...

i decided on two doses a day...so i "frontloaded" (read fucked up again) and took one tbsp morning and night first day. lol, like 6 tsp i think? next day i adjusted to one tsp morning and night. two tsp a day is the bottom line dosage if i am reading the literature correct, the creator suggests at least 2 a day....more if needed.
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:

two tsp a day is the bottom line dosage if i am reading the literature correct, the creator suggests at least 2 a day....more if needed.
Click to expand...

SofaGeorge got his origional results with the equivilant of 1.5tsp per day (he was taking 1tbls of the 50%syrup, 50% extract). I think I am going to start mine at 1.5tsp per day or may go as low as 1tsp. seeign as how my weight is lower than his.
 
That stuff is the nastest, stankiest shit I ever smelled. drveejay, you actually put it in your mouth? Uck, I'm putting in 00 caps and taking it that way. 4 caps = a teaspoon.
Hope I don't burp it up in someones face. They'll think I've been sucking on unwashed feet.

No response so far, but I've been using the Avena Sativa which has me waking up with wood and breaking out on my back like teenager. I think the only way to truly test the Careo would be to give up the AS for while.:(

Lawnsaver? Are you willing to give up the AV while taking the careo and posting results in the name of science?
 
Nelson Montana said:
That stuff is the nastest, stankiest shit I ever smelled. drveejay, you actually put it in your mouth? Uck, I'm putting in 00 caps and taking it that way. 4 caps = a teaspoon.
Hope I don't burp it up in someones face. They'll think I've been sucking on unwashed feet.

No response so far, but I've been using the Avena Sativa which has me waking up with wood and breaking out on my back like teenager. I think the only way to truly test the Careo would be to give up the AS for while.:(

Lawnsaver? Are you willing to give up the AV while taking the careo and posting results in the name of science?
Click to expand...

Since it is in the name of science, I will do my duty!!

I still am waiting for my order! I will take the AV for 2 more weeks and get my blood work done. After the blood work I will go on Carao only with slin and get blood levels done 4 weeks later. I want a solid baseline before I go into my next Fina/prop/Cyp/Winny/Proviron cycle.

This way we will be able to see any differences in taking Avena Sativa or Carao in regards to blood work!
 
=w= said:


SofaGeorge got his origional results with the equivilant of 1.5tsp per day (he was taking 1tbls of the 50%syrup, 50% extract). I think I am going to start mine at 1.5tsp per day or may go as low as 1tsp. seeign as how my weight is lower than his.
Click to expand...

i'd like to take 1 tsp a day too...make it last longer. but point one: i like to err on the side of a little too much, than too little. at least you are assured of the substance having a more than ample chance to work its magic. point two: the creator (lloyd) has stressed many times in emails (and on his site i believe)....that two tsp is the low dose and "usual" dose. so i'll stick with that. :D but perhaps i am just wasting my money and shortchanging myself a few weeks of usage. :p
 
Nelson Montana said:
That stuff is the nastest, stankiest shit I ever smelled. drveejay, you actually put it in your mouth? Uck
Click to expand...

LOL..............LOL............I swear it tastes good that way!

:p
 
Well I got my Carao in the mail today. I opened it up and smelled it. OMG, it fucking smells like really dirty socks or like nasty swamp land LOL. So I poured one tsp of this black looking sludge and gulped it down. I must say it's some pretty disgusting shit.

Anyways 2 min after I took the Carao it gave me so much energy I was curling 70 pound dumbells and my cock exploded to an extra 3 inches, Haha J/K


I'll report within the week and let you guys know how I like.
 
FreakMonster said:

Anyways 2 min after I took the Carao it gave me so much energy I was curling 70 pound dumbells and my cock exploded to an extra 3 inches, Haha J/K
Click to expand...

same here, but mine blew up 4 inches! i took 6 tsp though by accident, so probably accounts for the added dick size i got. stuff got me up to 5 inches total length. i'm happy. :D
 
SofaGeorge said:
I'm back from the mountains. Glad to see you all got past the skanky taste. :)
Click to expand...

and now you can add penis growth to the benefits! amazing compound! :FRlol:
 
Nelson Montana said:
That stuff is the nastest, stankiest shit I ever smelled. drveejay, you actually put it in your mouth? Uck, I'm putting in 00 caps and taking it that way. 4 caps = a teaspoon.
Hope I don't burp it up in someones face. They'll think I've been sucking on unwashed feet.
Click to expand...

Oh no, is it that bad? I should have my bottle soon....eek.
 
What the hell its not that bad.... nelson dont be a pussy...lol ;^) ... seriously I just swig it down with some water...this is definitely not one of the harder aspects of bodybuilding
 
Nelson Montana said:
That stuff is the nastest, stankiest shit I ever smelled. drveejay, you actually put it in your mouth? Uck, I'm putting in 00 caps and taking it that way. 4 caps = a teaspoon.
Hope I don't burp it up in someones face. They'll think I've been sucking on unwashed feet.

No response so far, but I've been using the Avena Sativa which has me waking up with wood and breaking out on my back like teenager. I think the only way to truly test the Careo would be to give up the AS for while.:(

Lawnsaver? Are you willing to give up the AV while taking the careo and posting results in the name of science?
Click to expand...

Nelson, think of it as a right of passage to be a vet here. If it is dirty, nasty, skanky, stinky, or dangerous - we try it first. :D
 
SofaGeorge said:


Nelson, think of it as a right of passage to be a vet here. If it is dirty, nasty, skanky, stinky, or dangerous - we try it first. :D
Click to expand...

lol. I think I will wait a bit before trying to ascend to vet status :D
 
krafti1 said:


lol. I think I will wait a bit before trying to ascend to vet status :D
Click to expand...

Arrggghhhh... this reminds me of something. I always take half a bottle of something to see if it will make people sick. I haven't tried that yet with carao.

Would someone else like to drink half a bottle of carao at a sitting so I don't have to? :)
 
It IS that bad! However, I'm getting better w/ it day by day, and more intense work outs and spontaneous wood, too.
I complained before and Warbird or somebody said I ws being a wus... Glad to know I'm not the only one.
buffdoc
 
buffdoc said:
It IS that bad! However, I'm getting better w/ it day by day, and more intense work outs and spontaneous wood, too.
I complained before and Warbird or somebody said I ws being a wus... Glad to know I'm not the only one.
buffdoc
Click to expand...

your still a wussy....just that they are too. lol. :D i mix it with about 4 oz or less of water and chug it. no big taste to me at all. but hey, i've tasted some nasty supplements before. so i am well prepared for such things. :D
 
SofaGeorge said:

Would someone else like to drink half a bottle of carao at a sitting so I don't have to? :)
Click to expand...

ugh...I've gotten used to the taste but not THAT used to it....hehe

btw - didn't you say you were going on vacation 'til new year's? :p
 
EngiCream said:


ugh...I've gotten used to the taste but not THAT used to it....hehe

btw - didn't you say you were going on vacation 'til new year's? :p
Click to expand...

I thought I was going to be gone till New Year's... ended up being just a couple days with my girlfriends family :bawling: and then a couple days in the mountains :D .
 
Smells worse than tastes.

Carao smells much worse than it tastes.
I have had it straight, but I enjoy it mixed with Crystal Light Lemonade (can't say it tastes wonderful like this I just enjoy taking it???)

I have not noticed any radical differences, but I take only 1 tsp per day, and I am not disciplined enough to watch my body/ workouts change subtly.

I have gotten to the point where I miss taking it if I forget in the morning.
 
I had my blood drawn today for test and shbg and that will be my baseline numbers since I've been off everything for about a month now. I should have my carao any day, when I get it I'm going with 2 tsp. ed until finished. I have one large size bottle coming so I think that's a little over a months worth. When I'm done I'll do the shbg over again and post it. I'm hoping I have the patience to do the same thing with aveena sativa and nettle root, I'm really curious about those two also.
 
40butpumpin said:
I had my blood drawn today for test and shbg and that will be my baseline numbers since I've been off everything for about a month now. I should have my carao any day, when I get it I'm going with 2 tsp. ed until finished. I have one large size bottle coming so I think that's a little over a months worth. When I'm done I'll do the shbg over again and post it. I'm hoping I have the patience to do the same thing with aveena sativa and nettle root, I'm really curious about those two also.
Click to expand...

We will dub you poster of the year if you post those tests. :)
 
I have, because of supply reasons dropped from two tablespoons per day to 1tsp EOD and see a BIG difference personally...next go around I would like to try a higher dosage of carao with sofa's help, say, 6-9 teaspoons per day...
 
Frackal said:
I have, because of supply reasons dropped from two tablespoons per day to 1tsp EOD and see a BIG difference personally...next go around I would like to try a higher dosage of carao with sofa's help, say, 6-9 teaspoons per day...
Click to expand...

I started on the higher amount a few days ago... going for 2 tablespoons ED. I'll post as soon as I can see a difference what the higher amount does to me.
 
For me the one tablespoon per day felt very strong, almost too much. I am now taking one teaspoon per day.-valerie
 
valerie said:
For me the one tablespoon per day felt very strong, almost too much. I am now taking one teaspoon per day.-valerie
Click to expand...

I'm only taking the higher dose as an experiment. I don't think I will stay on it past the end of January... then probably back to the lower dose.
 
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