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Breastfeeding at 8 years old?

In my eyes, that is child abuse.

"let the child decide when she wants to stop breastfeeding"

Let a kid decide and they will eat Fruit Loops for every meal

Humans are stupid
 
I dunno what to say.

I breastfed my children as long as they wanted (my second simply refused to nurse by age 4 months) or until they grew teeth and bit me (my second was 6/7 months when she cut her first teeth and I was like... UM NO!) or until I had no more milk. But the time my youngest was 4 months (I had become very ill with stomach troubles when I was 7 months pregnant w/her) I had no more milk so sadly I had to stop. Foolishly, I stopped nursing my oldest when she was about 5/6 months as I wanted another baby and couldn't nurse her while taking fertility drugs. I suppose I rationalized that because she was already eating table food the formula/cow's milk wouldn't very well hurt her.

As to the video?

At first I was like - this woman has to be nuts but after viewing the video I say if her family is content and they aren't hurting anyone then I say, what is the harm?
 
i still breast feed
 
BIKINIMOM said:
At first I was like - this woman has to be nuts but after viewing the video I say if her family is content and they aren't hurting anyone then I say, what is the harm?

It's encouraging infantile behavior.
It's not healthy
It's like allowing your kids to live at home until they are 40.
Teaching your kids to be that dependent is hurting the kids.
 
Someone needs to give that family a cow or a nanny goat or something ...

Wow :worried:

Even frigging animals that don't have the ability to think abstractly know there is a time to wean. If the kid is capable of writing the word "Breast" then it's time to start setting boundaries ...
 
DAng.. was hoping the chic was going to be a MILF not some homey limie bitch.

My wife breastfead our last two for 2 1/2 yrs each. I was fighting them little shits for action all the time.
 
The goal of breastfeeding is to provide nourishment to a baby, once that baby can eat solids and eat on their own, there's no reason to nourish the kid with milk.
This is the just the mothers way of filling some emotional void.
 
Would I do it?

NO.

But then again I also agree with spanking a child, which some others do not.

So I still say, that if the children aren't being harmed in any way and her husband supports it, then why not?

When one of those kids hi-jacks their grandmother's SUV and goes for a joyride because they were pissed at their mother knowing full well that it was wrong AND that they could have killed someone BUT THEY WEREN'T SORRY OR ASHAMED... then I would say, "Yea, that is a fucked up way to parent your kid."

But until then, I say, "Why judge?"
 
BIKINIMOM said:
Would I do it?

NO.

But then again I also agree with spanking a child, which some others do not.

So I still say, that if the children aren't being harmed in any way and her husband supports it, then why not?

When one of those kids hi-jacks their grandmother's SUV and goes for a joyride because they were pissed at their mother knowing full well that it was wrong AND that they could have killed someone BUT THEY WEREN'T SORRY OR ASHAMED... then I would say, "Yea, that is a fucked up way to parent your kid."

But until then, I say, "Why judge?"

But E, how can you say these kids are not being harmed?
By contributing to their lack of growth mentally is harm.
Not all people who are fucked up hi jack suv's, some go into severe mental illness states from shit like this.
I would rather my kid steal a car than live with emotional illness
 
blueta2 said:
But E, how can you say these kids are not being harmed?
By contributing to their lack of growth mentally is harm.
Not all people who are fucked up hi jack suv's, some go into severe mental illness states from shit like this.
I would rather my kid steal a car than live with emotional illness

I dunno, the kids I saw that were interviewed seem ok to me... whereas the kid who was interviewed for hijacking the SUV DID NOT...

Seriously, the kids looked and sounded ok to me. I am no health care professional mind you, but I didn't see anything that would lead me to believe they were damaged in any way.

As I said, would I do this? NO... and honestly not because I thought it would psychologically or emotionally harm the children but because I wouldn't have been able to continue to nurse them that way as I was too busy. I had several children back to back with no help from my ex. I cooked, cleaned and took care of the paperwork for our business too... so there is JUST NO WAY that I could have given that kind of attention to my girls. Would I have wanted to? I don't think so to be honest but not because I felt it would have been harmfull.
 
NOw that is just wrong.
I lived in Italy and the woman (another american spouse) next door to me still breast fed her son at 5 years old. fucking kid was all into boobs, we'd just be chillin and he would come over and start grabbing out teets....I thought that was bad, this here is 1 million times worse!
 
My sister breast fed her kids until they were walking and talking. It was GROSS and very disturbing to watch.

The oldest finally stopped when my sister gave her the option of either buying Easter candy or breast feeding. The child choose candy so my sister stopped breast feeding.

She lost the youngest in a custody battle with the father so he never had the opportunity to breast feed till he was 5. (but then again my sister slept with her son until he was 9/10 when ever he came for his week ends. But, THAT'S a whole 'nother sick matter that deserves it's own thread)
 
Lestat.........Im not sure which is more disturbing...the chic in the vid or the fact that you were searching you tube for breast feeding :)
 
those kids seem fine and their mother obviously loves and cares for them
nobody’s getting hurt here so where is the problem
 
JayC9 said:
those kids seem fine and their mother obviously loves and cares for them
nobody’s getting hurt here so where is the problem


i dont think the problem is with the breastfeeding itself but with the fact that the mom is letting the kids decide when its time to stop. you as a parent have to set boundaries and can not let the kid decide when to stop. its like a fat kid that the parents let him/her eat all they want and let the kid decide when is enough. Parents need to take more control of their kids or later in life the kids will run the house, not the parents. i saw it in friends of mine i grew up with. their parents let them do everything and make their own decisions of when to stop and now that they are in their 30's they have problems setting boundaries for themselves because they were used to getting and doing whatever and how much ever they wanted. lots of financial problems and not to mention 2 of my friends (brothers) still at the age of 30 and 33 live at home with their parents. one makes just enough money to party with and the other makes more than enough to live on his own but just cant let go of the moms tit. yes that pun was seriously intended....
 
bigmann245 said:
i dont think the problem is with the breastfeeding itself but with the fact that the mom is letting the kids decide when its time to stop. you as a parent have to set boundaries and can not let the kid decide when to stop. its like a fat kid that the parents let him/her eat all they want and let the kid decide when is enough. Parents need to take more control of their kids or later in life the kids will run the house, not the parents. i saw it in friends of mine i grew up with. their parents let them do everything and make their own decisions of when to stop and now that they are in their 30's they have problems setting boundaries for themselves because they were used to getting and doing whatever and how much ever they wanted. lots of financial problems and not to mention 2 of my friends (brothers) still at the age of 30 and 33 live at home with their parents. one makes just enough money to party with and the other makes more than enough to live on his own but just cant let go of the moms tit. yes that pun was seriously intended....

If the woman in this video was allowing her children to make ALL the decisions for themselves I don't think the children would be as well-behaved as they were for the camera nor would they be able to conduct themselves in any other proper fashion... which they obviously were. I am thinking that the video would have mentioned developmental disabilities. But I could also be wrong about that.

As I said, would I do that with my children? Most likely NOT but not because I believe that it would hurt the children.

I don't know why people are so offended by the scene. The oldest is 12. The kid looked OK to me as well as the 8 year old.

And Hengst you never said if your sister's older child was damaged by her nursing that child for so long. You only stated that YOU were disturbed.

I do know that there were MANY cultures where mothers nursed their children long after those kids could walk and talk. My mother told me that it was quite common in the old country as this was the only means of "birthcontrol" for those women. They mistakenly thought that they could not become pregnant again as long as they were nursing a child.

So now for all of you who are *horrified* about this *new* information, this practise has been around since mothers have been nursing and *surprise* *surprise* our species did NOT die out. :rolleyes:

To be honest, I am *horrified* that any healthy woman would CHOOSE formula over breastfeeding. But hey, that is just me. :whatever:
 
i breastfed for 4 days
then i had to put the kibosh on that
i just couldnt do it
i spent those entire 4 days lounging around my house with no shirt or bra on just so the kid could suckle every 10 mins
not to mention the pain and scabbing sores on the nips
 
hmmmmm...certainly seems very odd in our culture to be breastfeeding someone well beyond infancy. However, she seems like a loving mother. I just don't know what to think of that. I try not to judge other parents, though, so long as their hearts and motives are in the right place. I don't know if the lady is still breastfeeding because she is filling her own needs. There is a really euphoric/bonding experience to breastfeeding that is hard to explain to others, but maybe the mom is having a hard time giving that up or replacing it with more age appropriate bonding. I am ambivalent about that video.

Dev is almost weaned because he has teeth now and can hold a bottle. Plus, I've been dieting which is drying my milk up. He crawled for the first time yesterday. We were in bed and he crawled over to me (I was lying on my side topless) and stuck my boob in his mouth...lol. It was funny. (you probably had to be there.)
 
bigmann245 said:
i dont think the problem is with the breastfeeding itself but with the fact that the mom is letting the kids decide when its time to stop. you as a parent have to set boundaries and can not let the kid decide when to stop. its like a fat kid that the parents let him/her eat all they want and let the kid decide when is enough. Parents need to take more control of their kids or later in life the kids will run the house, not the parents. i saw it in friends of mine i grew up with. their parents let them do everything and make their own decisions of when to stop and now that they are in their 30's they have problems setting boundaries for themselves because they were used to getting and doing whatever and how much ever they wanted. lots of financial problems and not to mention 2 of my friends (brothers) still at the age of 30 and 33 live at home with their parents. one makes just enough money to party with and the other makes more than enough to live on his own but just cant let go of the moms tit. yes that pun was seriously intended....
you're describing the symptoms of any spoilt brat, she may let the child decide when they believe they're old enough to no longer want to be breastfed but that in no way suggests a trend that runs through all other household and disciplinary issues, application of love differs greatly
 
heatherrae said:
hmmmmm...certainly seems very odd in our culture to be breastfeeding someone well beyond infancy. However, she seems like a loving mother. I just don't know what to think of that. I try not to judge other parents, though, so long as their hearts and motives are in the right place. I don't know if the lady is still breastfeeding because she is filling her own needs. There is a really euphoric/bonding experience to breastfeeding that is hard to explain to others, but maybe the mom is having a hard time giving that up or replacing it with more age appropriate bonding. I am ambivalent about that video.

Dev is almost weaned because he has teeth now and can hold a bottle. Plus, I've been dieting which is drying my milk up. He crawled for the first time yesterday. We were in bed and he crawled over to me (I was lying on my side topless) and stuck my boob in his mouth...lol. It was funny. (you probably had to be there.)


trust me if you were lying in bed with me topless i would do the same thing... teehee
 
Smurfy said:
i breastfed for 4 days
then i had to put the kibosh on that
i just couldnt do it
i spent those entire 4 days lounging around my house with no shirt or bra on just so the kid could suckle every 10 mins
not to mention the pain and scabbing sores on the nips
It gets better, smurfy. At first the nips are sore and the kids nurses CONSTANTLY. The feedings get less frequent and your boobs and nips get used to it and don't hurt at all after about the first few weeks.
 
I'm still stumped why lestat was watchin breastfeeding videos on youtube.

:worried:
 
JayC9 said:
you're describing the symptoms of any spoilt brat, she may let the child decide when they believe they're old enough to no longer want to be breastfed but that in no way suggests a trend that runs through all other household and disciplinary issues, application of love differs greatly

My friends ex hubby was tied up as a kid in the front yard and made to wear a skirt. This is how his parents punished him. They thought that this punishment was done out of love.
Anyone in their RIGHT mind knows this is damaging, but his parents didn't. His parents didnt hit him, so no harm done right? WRONG! He grew up to be very emotionally disturbed.

Keep in mind, any human is capable of having babies, but not any human is capable of being a fit parent.

Breastfeeding a 8 year old is demented and does not benefit ANYONE involved.
 
Smurfy said:
i dont think I'll ever do the pregnancy thing again but id i did, I certainly try breastfeeding again.
It's very sore at first, but it gets easier for most women. With the cost of formula at $26/can it is a hell of a lot cheaper too!
 
I think the mother enjoys having her breast worshiped by her children and enjoys the feeling of fulfillment and invaluableness that her daughter desiring to nurse brings her.
 
oh yeah. well the formula my son ended up needing was pre-hydrogenated and pre-digested kind that was over twice the cost of regular or soy formula. the doctor recommended it because he was extremely collicky and nothing seemed to help. he was also on tagamet for his entire first year because of this. he ended up with absolutely no gastric issues BTW
nowadays he can eat and drink anything without incident and he has no food allergies other than pumpkin (if thats even considered a food)
but that first year was absolute torture for him and for us (myself and my ex) wowza
 
velvett said:
I think the mother enjoys having her breast worshiped by her children and enjoys the feeling of fulfillment and invaluableness that her daughter desiring to nurse brings her.
co-dependence
its making the mother feel wanted and needed
 
heatherrae said:
It's very sore at first, but it gets easier for most women. With the cost of formula at $26/can it is a hell of a lot cheaper too!
Imagine how much you'll save by breast feeding Darwin until he's eighteen!
 
Smurfy said:
oh yeah. well the formula my son ended up needing was pre-hydrogenated and pre-digested kind that was over twice the cost of regular or soy formula. the doctor recommended it because he was extremely collicky and nothing seemed to help. he was also on tagamet for his entire first year because of this. he ended up with absolutely no gastric issues BTW
nowadays he can eat and drink anything without incident and he has no food allergies other than pumpkin (if thats even considered a food)
but that first year was absolute torture for him and for us (myself and my ex) wowza
UGH...poor thing. :worried:
 
heatherrae said:
It's very sore at first, but it gets easier for most women. With the cost of formula at $26/can it is a hell of a lot cheaper too!

I never had any issues nursing my first three so I was beyond stumped when my fourth came along and was nipple confused and nearly pulled my nipples off at the base. You wanna talk pain?!?! A ravenous infant suckling at nipples that were cracked and bleeding from the base. I finally broke down and called the hospital lactation consultant and all I had to do was to put my little finger into my baby's mouth so she could latch onto my nipple properly. She also had thrush which spread to my nipple OMG you wanna talk bloody mess?!?! But the matter was resolved in the matter of a few days and I went onto nurse her for as long as I had milk, which sadly wasn't long at all. :(
 
Ok seriously, no one found the drawings of mommie's boobies while nursing to be rather ODD? It's not like they did a drawing for the show - they do this often.
 
heatherrae said:
hmmmmm...certainly seems very odd in our culture to be breastfeeding someone well beyond infancy. However, she seems like a loving mother. I just don't know what to think of that. I try not to judge other parents, though, so long as their hearts and motives are in the right place. I don't know if the lady is still breastfeeding because she is filling her own needs. There is a really euphoric/bonding experience to breastfeeding that is hard to explain to others, but maybe the mom is having a hard time giving that up or replacing it with more age appropriate bonding. I am ambivalent about that video.

Dev is almost weaned because he has teeth now and can hold a bottle. Plus, I've been dieting which is drying my milk up. He crawled for the first time yesterday. We were in bed and he crawled over to me (I was lying on my side topless) and stuck my boob in his mouth...lol. It was funny. (you probably had to be there.)
I think you nailed it right there.

What a lot of people might be conflicted by is the fact that breastfeeding is inherently a natural bonding between mother and child. It's almost like we're judging something personal between the mother and her daughter. But there comes a time when boundaries need to be instituted, for the child's sake as part of their growth process, and there are other ways that mother could be bonding with her child that are more appropriate, both emotionally and culturally. It's like letting your kid continue to suck their thumb. A lot of them quit on their own, but there is the odd one you have to help to quit. They often use it as a mechanism to avoid dealing with problems (including self soothing) in a more mature, constructive fashion.

In poorer countries or among more tribal people the mothers do breastfeed longer, they need to, they need the birth control and they are supplementing their child's nutrition.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
I never had any issues nursing my first three so I was beyond stumped when my fourth came along and was nipple confused and nearly pulled my nipples off at the base. You wanna talk pain?!?! A ravenous infant suckling at nipples that were cracked and bleeding from the base. I finally broke down and called the hospital lactation consultant and all I had to do was to put my little finger into my baby's mouth so she could latch onto my nipple properly. She also had thrush which spread to my nipple OMG you wanna talk bloody mess?!?! But the matter was resolved in the matter of a few days and I went onto nurse her for as long as I had milk, which sadly wasn't long at all. :(
ummmmm....OUCH! That hurt just reading it. Mine just got scabbed a little and let down was painful for the first few weeks because I was so full of milk.
 
I find the whole scene about as odd as I found my one exbitchster-in-law's kid that (no exaggeration) would suck his thumb wherever and whenever he wanted while a small shred of his blankie was pinned to his shirt (It was worn through so she cut it up into squares and would replace them as needed)....

THE KID WAS 10!

The kid is now turning 18. He hasn't murdered anyone just yet. But I am thinkin the fact that he was allowed (and actually encouraged by his mother) to behave this way till 10 is less harmfull then the fact that the kid is an obvious queen born into a family of SEVERE HOMOPHOBES. <---- that might account for any future mass murders by him.

But hey, as long as my kids aren't present when he is pulling the trigger WTF do I care?
 
BIKINIMOM said:
I find the whole scene about as odd as I found my one exbitchster-in-law's kid that (no exaggeration) would suck his thumb wherever and whenever he wanted while a small shred of his blankie was pinned to his shirt (It was worn through so she cut it up into squares and would replace them as needed)....

THE KID WAS 10!

The kid is now turning 18. He hasn't murdered anyone just yet. But I am thinkin the fact that he was allowed (and actually encouraged by his mother) to behave this way till 10 is less harmfull then the fact that the kid is an obvious queen born into a family of SEVERE HOMOPHOBES. <---- that might account for any future mass murders by him.

But hey, as long as my kids aren't present when he is pulling the trigger WTF do I care?
I confess I was probably not a very cuddly mommy type and I've only solidified my opinions as I've gotten older. One of my largest mistakes as a mother was in not setting and enforcing clearly defined boundaries.

Children flounder without clear boundaries, and our jobs as parents are to set limitations and provide guidance. You can't compare allowing a child to suck his thumb until he's 10 or allowing another to breastfeed until she's 8 to beating the shit out of a kid or being psychologically abusive, but it's just not effective parenting. It is not serving the child's best interests to be too domineering or too permissive. One destroys a child's spirit and robs them of their childhood, the other instills an artificial sense of entitlement and lack of initiative.

As for children that grow up to be murderers ... I had an interesting conversation with my HP the other day about that. How many kids have committed horribly violent crimes and came from "normal" homes where the parents gave them everything they ever wanted and the kids actually had the pocket money to buy a small arsenal? Maybe instilling a sense of boundaries, i.e., there are lines you DO NOT CROSS, is part of what keeps our young from killing us in our sleep :whatever: Say what you will, organized religion does serve some purpose in industrial society, if only to take the place of tribal elders.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
I find the whole scene about as odd as I found my one exbitchster-in-law's kid that (no exaggeration) would suck his thumb wherever and whenever he wanted while a small shred of his blankie was pinned to his shirt (It was worn through so she cut it up into squares and would replace them as needed)....

THE KID WAS 10!

The kid is now turning 18. He hasn't murdered anyone just yet. But I am thinkin the fact that he was allowed (and actually encouraged by his mother) to behave this way till 10 is less harmfull then the fact that the kid is an obvious queen born into a family of SEVERE HOMOPHOBES. <---- that might account for any future mass murders by him.

But hey, as long as my kids aren't present when he is pulling the trigger WTF do I care?
Oh man!
 
I see your points MM, all of them good points.

A really wise shrink once told me:

"We ALL fuck our kids up, whether we like it or not. The goal of effective parenting is to raise them with an 'acceptable level of fucked-up-ness'."

I shit you not.

I gotta say, I agree with him.

I was VERY VERY touchy-feely showered my girls with love and kisses, hugs, cuddling, all of that. But I also let them know that they had boundaries and when they did wrong, there was no question in their minds. I was a hyuge proponent of having them learn self-control and self-discipline, self-respect and I tried to teach them self-love. I realize that I may be viewed by many as being too tough in one way/but too permissive, perhaps in other ways...

Which keeps taking me back to the wise words of Dr Howard Paul....
 
heatherrae said:

It was sad and comical all at the same time. The kid wanted to play with dolls and makeup and cooking stuff from the age of 3/4 on... His older brother ALWAYS KNEW he was gay and would tease and beat on him for it relentlessly. The mother and father were straight up CRAZY homophobes which was sorta even funnier/sadder as the mother's own brother was an admitted out-of-the-closet (kinda) gay man. There were no "gay-dar" issues but I mean, hello - he lived with MEN. So I asked him and one of his partners if they were married. They both almost passed out and the dialogue began between us and my exhusband and me. He admitted that he could not come out to his family because they were SUCH homophobes...

How fukkin sad is that? The man was 40 something for fuck's sake!

So anyways, my girls finally told me recently that their cousin David admitted to them that he was gay. And my response to them? Yea... so?

I just have to shake my head and laugh to myself at the UNBELIEVABLE IGNORANCE of some people...

Poor kid.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
It was sad and comical all at the same time. The kid wanted to play with dolls and makeup and cooking stuff from the age of 3/4 on... His older brother ALWAYS KNEW he was gay and would tease and beat on him for it relentlessly. The mother and father were straight up CRAZY homophobes which was sorta even funnier/sadder as the mother's own brother was an admitted out-of-the-closet (kinda) gay man. There were no "gay-dar" issues but I mean, hello - he lived with MEN. So I asked him and one of his partners if they were married. They both almost passed out and the dialogue began between us and my exhusband and me. He admitted that he could not come out to his family because they were SUCH homophobes...

How fukkin sad is that? The man was 40 something for fuck's sake!

So anyways, my girls finally told me recently that their cousin David admitted to them that he was gay. And my response to them? Yea... so?

I just have to shake my head and laugh to myself at the UNBELIEVABLE IGNORANCE of some people...

Poor kid.
yeah that is REALLY sad.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
A really wise shrink once told me:

"We ALL fuck our kids up, whether we like it or not. The goal of effective parenting is to raise them with an 'acceptable level of fucked-up-ness'."

Agree. Overall I abhor physical contact with people as an example as my parents weren't the "hugs 'n' cuddles" sort, though generally speaking I'm socially well adjusted (the opinions of ex's being excluded :D ).
 
I can recall my mom throwing my blankey out when I was 9. I was pissed as hell. At that point ,I had already picked out which nursing home I'd be sending her ass too one day too. (I kid)

My very best friend's son is 18 and still had his baby blankey. They went on vacation and he took his blankey with him, Jeffry left his blamkey in the hotel bed. He called after they got home and asked if the maid found it. Seems the laundry threw it out cuz they thought it was an old rag. lol

I have no words for an 8 year old still being breast fed! I think the "bonding time" 2-gether was up 7 years earlier. Nuts cases.
 
Useless without pics

heatherrae said:
hmmmmm...certainly seems very odd in our culture to be breastfeeding someone well beyond infancy. However, she seems like a loving mother. I just don't know what to think of that. I try not to judge other parents, though, so long as their hearts and motives are in the right place. I don't know if the lady is still breastfeeding because she is filling her own needs. There is a really euphoric/bonding experience to breastfeeding that is hard to explain to others, but maybe the mom is having a hard time giving that up or replacing it with more age appropriate bonding. I am ambivalent about that video.

Dev is almost weaned because he has teeth now and can hold a bottle. Plus, I've been dieting which is drying my milk up. He crawled for the first time yesterday. We were in bed and he crawled over to me (I was lying on my side topless) and stuck my boob in his mouth...lol. It was funny. (you probably had to be there.)
 
By the way did anyone else notice that when this entire thread became women talking breast feeding all the guys vanished? (except me, which in itself is disturbing) Where did they all go? LOL
 
BIKINIMOM said:
I see your points MM, all of them good points.

A really wise shrink once told me:

"We ALL fuck our kids up, whether we like it or not. The goal of effective parenting is to raise them with an 'acceptable level of fucked-up-ness'."

I shit you not.

I gotta say, I agree with him.
As do I, but perhaps for different reasons.

Since I believe in reincarnation I believe we come onto this earthly plane with a certain blueprint. After having been involved in paganism I've come to change what I thought that blueprint entails. I used to think the "Life Blueprint" laid out several goals. Now I believe it lays out certain lessons, and lessons, unfortunately, are never learned without sacrifice and, generally, pain.

Now one of the greatest obstacles we face in our lives is early childhood programming. The neuroses and psychoses that were layered into our psyches generally before we hit pre-puberty.

So basically speaking, from my philosophical viewpoint, we do not choose our families/the main shapers of our early life experiences on the basis of what they can do for us, but rather based on how they can help us build psychological obstacles that we have to spend the rest of our life overcoming. In overcoming those obstacles we learn the life lessons we came here to learn (there's also stuff about forgiveness, as well as creating and relieving karmic debts, but then this turns into something far too complicated for one post).
 
musclemom said:
As do I, but perhaps for different reasons.

Since I believe in reincarnation I believe we come onto this earthly plane with a certain blueprint. After having been involved in paganism I've come to change what I thought that blueprint entails. I used to think the "Life Blueprint" laid out several goals. Now I believe it lays out certain lessons, and lessons, unfortunately, are never learned without sacrifice and, generally, pain.

Now one of the greatest obstacles we face in our lives is early childhood programming. The neuroses and psychoses that were layered into our psyches generally before we hit pre-puberty.

So basically speaking, from my philosophical viewpoint, we do not choose our families/the main shapers of our early life experiences on the basis of what they can do for us, but rather based on how they can help us build psychological obstacles that we have to spend the rest of our life overcoming. In overcoming those obstacles we learn the life lessons we came here to learn (there's also stuff about forgiveness, as well as creating and relieving karmic debts, but then this turns into something far too complicated for one post).

Never thought about it like that, but the more I read and reread it, I am thinkin that makes a lotta sense.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
Never thought about it like that, but the more I read and reread it, I am thinkin that makes a lotta sense.
Well, it's like I told another witch, you can't be a murderer unless someone agrees to be murdered. From a reincarnation perspective murder is an experience we all must face, as both the perpetrator and victim, but you can't experience what it is to kill unless someone is willing to die and in so dying on this plane creating karmic imbalances that will need to be addressed in future lives.
 
musclemom said:
Well, it's like I told another witch, you can't be a murderer unless someone agrees to be murdered. From a reincarnation perspective murder is an experience we all must face, as both the perpetrator and victim, but you can't experience what it is to kill unless someone is willing to die and in so dying on this plane creating karmic imbalances that will need to be addressed in future lives.

So what do you think about the notion that by past choices one had essentially offered themselves up to be *emotionally and spiritually* murdered so that they could be reborn, wiser and stronger from those experiences?
 
BIKINIMOM said:
So what do you think about the notion that by past choices one had essentially offered themselves up to be *emotionally and spiritually* murdered so that they could be reborn, wiser and stronger from those experiences?
Ah, then you're getting into the concept of the sacrificial king (as above, so below; macrocosm reflecting microcosm). That is the experience of the sphere of Tiphareth on the Qabalistic tree of life. The lesson of John Barleycorn, Jesus Christ, Osiris or Odin, etc.,

Sacrifice is one of the most important lessons of this realm. Willing sacrifice, knowing what you're giving up and willingly giving it up anyway, is one of the ways in which we grow.

Only on this plane of existence can we actually make a sacrifice. On the higher planes we can see the big picture, so there's no sacrifice because you're not giving anything up because you know what the deal is.

Does that give you a different perspective to the question?
 
blueta2 said:
The goal of breastfeeding is to provide nourishment to a baby, once that baby can eat solids and eat on their own, there's no reason to nourish the kid with milk.
This is the just the mothers way of filling some emotional void.


My ex wife fed until she was 4 1/2 y/o. Of course I didnt know this. Turns out she had a lot of mental issues and was very very very dependent on me and narcs. I had to get out ASAP. wonder if there is a correlation there?
 
musclemom said:
Ah, then you're getting into the concept of the sacrificial king (as above, so below; macrocosm reflecting microcosm). That is the experience of the sphere of Tiphareth on the Qabalistic tree of life. The lesson of John Barleycorn, Jesus Christ, Osiris or Odin, etc.,

Sacrifice is one of the most important lessons of this realm. Willing sacrifice, knowing what you're giving up and willingly giving it up anyway, is one of the ways in which we grow.

Only on this plane of existence can we actually make a sacrifice. On the higher planes we can see the big picture, so there's no sacrifice because you're not giving anything up because you know what the deal is.

Does that give you a different perspective to the question?

It is interesting... I was actually viewing this from a VERY personal perspective. It helped me to be at peace with all that has happened to me in the last several years. Now I don't feel so *tortured*. It really is helping me to let go of feeling like any sort of victim. Maybe when the time is right I can pass this onto my girls to help them feel less tortured?

See I really didn't know what it was that I *gave up* until I realized that perhaps karmically I was a willing victim. I can't explain how much more peacefull I became at the very moment I saw your post and digested it. And I will REALLY need to be at peace in order to face the shitstorm ahead. The papers were filed and he will be getting served by Saturday latest.....
 
BIKINIMOM said:
It is interesting... I was actually viewing this from a VERY personal perspective. It helped me to be at peace with all that has happened to me in the last several years. Now I don't feel so *tortured*. It really is helping me to let go of feeling like any sort of victim. Maybe when the time is right I can pass this onto my girls to help them feel less tortured?

See I really didn't know what it was that I *gave up* until I realized that perhaps karmically I was a willing victim. I can't explain how much more peacefull I became at the very moment I saw your post and digested it. And I will REALLY need to be at peace in order to face the shitstorm ahead. The papers were filed and he will be getting served by Saturday latest.....
:) There's a book called "Messages from Michael" by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro that explains the concept of karmic debt and how reincarnation works MUCH better than I can here.

Knowing that there might have been a debt to be repaid or realizing that there could be ultimate good helps a lot. You stop crying out to the Universe "WHY?" The knowledge that somehow no matter how miserable what you're going through is, it's not just some random act of chance OR some immature and impulsive flick of a divine pinkie.

Yes, I believe that. It makes a lot more sense that "God moves in mysterious ways."

The concept of a just and loving god who oversees our lives completely flies in the face of logic. If god gives a shit about our lives (which is implied by saying believe in the power of prayer) then why would a just and loving God allow suffering? Enter the Devil. But God created the devil, so God could take out the Devil, so the implication is god LIKES evil to fuck with our lives?! That doesn't make sense, either. Enter the concept of free will. But free will has nothing to do with little children being abused by pedophiles or coming down with leukemia. Then enter the concept of "sins of the fathers." But that means that God is decreeing that it's OKAY for little innocent children to suffer because of stupid or evil shit their parents did before they were even BORN.

CONVENTIONAL RELIGION MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT LONG ENOUGH, and it basically devolves the Divine Creator of the Universe into some bratty fucking asshole who used to get involved in human lives and now just basically lets Satan do it while sitting back and saying "LOVE ME, I MADE YOU. LOVE ME EVEN IF YOU PRAY EVERY DAY AND YOUR LIFE IS STILL A SHIT STORM."

Uh uh. No. I CAN believe that what happens in our lives is dictated by agreements and decisions made when we had the ability to see the bigger picture. It explains everything. It's the great cosmic scale all geared toward growth of our higher selves.
 
musclemom said:
:) There's a book called "Messages from Michael" by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro that explains the concept of karmic debt and how reincarnation works MUCH better than I can here.

Knowing that there might have been a debt to be repaid or realizing that there could be ultimate good helps a lot. You stop crying out to the Universe "WHY?" The knowledge that somehow no matter how miserable what you're going through is, it's not just some random act of chance OR some immature and impulsive flick of a divine pinkie.

Yes, I believe that. It makes a lot more sense that "God moves in mysterious ways."

The concept of a just and loving god who oversees our lives completely flies in the face of logic. If god gives a shit about our lives (which is implied by saying believe in the power of prayer) then why would a just and loving God allow suffering? Enter the Devil. But God created the devil, so God could take out the Devil, so the implication is god LIKES evil to fuck with our lives?! That doesn't make sense, either. Enter the concept of free will. But free will has nothing to do with little children being abused by pedophiles or coming down with leukemia. Then enter the concept of "sins of the fathers." But that means that God is decreeing that it's OKAY for little innocent children to suffer because of stupid or evil shit their parents did before they were even BORN.

CONVENTIONAL RELIGION MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT LONG ENOUGH, and it basically devolves the Divine Creator of the Universe into some bratty fucking asshole who used to get involved in human lives and now just basically lets Satan do it while sitting back and saying "LOVE ME, I MADE YOU. LOVE ME EVEN IF YOU PRAY EVERY DAY AND YOUR LIFE IS STILL A SHIT STORM."

Uh uh. No. I CAN believe that what happens in our lives is dictated by agreements and decisions made when we had the ability to see the bigger picture. It explains everything. It's the great cosmic scale all geared toward growth of our higher selves.

thanks MM... I genuinely appreciate you sharing.
 
blueta2 said:
My friends ex hubby was tied up as a kid in the front yard and made to wear a skirt. This is how his parents punished him. They thought that this punishment was done out of love.
Anyone in their RIGHT mind knows this is damaging, but his parents didn't. His parents didnt hit him, so no harm done right? WRONG! He grew up to be very emotionally disturbed.

Keep in mind, any human is capable of having babies, but not any human is capable of being a fit parent.

Breastfeeding a 8 year old is demented and does not benefit ANYONE involved.
Byron Katie might suggest asking yourself ‘is that statement actually true’? You’re implying extended breastfeeding is tantamount to emotionally abusing a child, how would you make that case in a court of law? At what age does it become abuse? Both the mother and the child appeared to be getting something positive from the experience. Just because it challenges our preconceived ideas of what is normal, doesn’t automatically suggest the child must then be psychologically and emotionally maladjusted. Restraining and publically humiliating a child is not comparable with breastfeeding which is a completely natural act between mother and child.
 
JayC9 said:
Byron Katie might suggest asking yourself ‘is that statement actually true’? You’re implying extended breastfeeding is tantamount to emotionally abusing a child, how would you make that case in a court of law? At what age does it become abuse? Both the mother and the child appeared to be getting something positive from the experience. Just because it challenges our preconceived ideas of what is normal, doesn’t automatically suggest the child must then be psychologically and emotionally maladjusted. Restraining and publically humiliating a child is not comparable to breastfeeding which is a completely natural act between mother and child.

I do concurr with this post.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
And Hengst you never said if your sister's older child was damaged by her nursing that child for so long. You only stated that YOU were disturbed.

You are absolutely spot on. It did NO damage to her. I was the one horrified.

My niece is now just finishing her sophmore year in HS. She is a brilliant child - intelligent, kind, caring, involved, engaged, top of her class, cheer leader, beautiful. She will be taking a mix of college and HS courses next year in her junior year.
 
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