Body building workout vs. Strength training workout

[Will Goes Boing]

Ok so after much reading on this site I noticed that the majority of you are big advocates of compound lifts. But I also noticed a lot of you are not exactly body builders since some of your stats indicate body fat in the 20+%.

From what I know so far power lifters are usually big guys who are strong as hell, but they also look "fat". When I watch videos of strength training the main things they do is DL/Squat/Bench.

On the contrary when I see body builders training they are doing all isolation exercises.

I'm not looking to be 200+lbs and join the 1000lb total lift club, nor am I trying to look like Arnold. My goal is to be at around 155lbs with 7-8% bodyfat (height is 5'10). I don't want to be "huge", I want to be athletic and ripped. I'm already at 150lbs right now and my bulking put me at 12% bodyfat. Once I hit 165 I'm going to cut 10lbs and hopefully that will land me in the single digit.

So in order to obtain my goal should I be doing mostly compound exercises or isolation?

 

[moya]

compound is better imo... but homestly you may want to bulk a bit more before you cut... even if using aas because you will lose some muscle...
definately stick with the compound lifts to build the house... worry about the details later or you can always throw in a few iso sets here and there...

 

[musketeer]

20% BF is definitely not fat - it's pretty normal.

When most bodybuilders bulk up they reach this level, because it's easier to gain size if you're not restricting the way you eat/doing tons of cardio.

I'd say "most" guys on this board that you are reffering to, ejoy the bulking phase more than the cutting.

The only powerlifters that look fat are the guys who are in the "unlimited" weight category. Every one else is fairly ripped (probably more like around 10%) because the more weight being fat, the less is muscle in a weight class, you don't want to compete against someone with considerably more muscle than you, just because you're fat! Same is true in weight lifting or boxing.

Pretty much all pro bodybuilders who you will see in mags/on TV will be on steroids and can pretty much train how they like and still be big and ripped. They are still the best in the world at what they do and I'm still a massive fan. They would have lad a substantial foundation with the basics like squats, and then made a transition to machines.

155 at 5'10" is NOT a bodybuilders physique, even at 7-8% bodyfat. Probably even 175 isn't enough muscle - best you can expect to look like with those stats is a dancer - you'll be ripped, but tiny. I'd say a good goal would be to try and get to a not-too-fat 190lbs and trim back from that to 180 and see how you feel, first time 'round.

You can get that size using isolation exercises and machines, but do you want to wait years to do it, or would you like to GROW and solidly hit your goal in 7 months?

Do the 5x5 and gain 25lbs in 5 months, and then do 2 months of cutting to drop back to 180. Then do another 3 months up and 2 months doen and you'll be tight as f*ck!

 

[future]

20% bf for a male is considered obese in truth. But there is always help to lean down.

As for differences in training: rest intervals and reps tend to be the difference.

 

[Unit 2005]

20% BF is definitely not fat - it's pretty normal.

155 at 5'10" is NOT a bodybuilders physique, even at 7-8% bodyfat. Probably even 175 isn't enough muscle - best you can expect to look like with those stats is a dancer - you'll be ripped, but tiny. I'd say a good goal would be to try and get to a not-too-fat 190lbs and trim back from that to 180 and see how you feel, first time 'round.

QUOTE]

20% bodyfat is high for a bodybuilder. there is no weight you have to be to be a bodybuilder, if hes 4% and 155 then hed look awesome, there are weight classes in bodybuilding. Having said that, i agree with what everyone has said about trying to add some size and then comming back down, if you need to, that is.

To answer your question, bodybuilders DO use compound lifts but the rep range used is between 8-12, sometimes as high as 15 and as low as 6...but below that isnt much use to a bodybuilder. Isolation makes up alot of a bodybuilding programme because bodybuilders are judged by the condition of their body, with muscle size, definition, speration, vascularity, balance and muscle density important aspects for judges to score them on.

Yes you are right, powerlifters dont tend to care what they look like as much as how much weight they can lift in the big 3. The compete by having the best total in those 3 lifts.

 

[musketeer]

The American Council on Exercise has categorized ranges of body fat percentages as follows:

Description Women Men
Essential fat 10–12% 2–4%
Athletes 14–20% 6–13%
Fitness 21–24% 14–17%
Acceptable 25–31% 18–25%
Overweight 32-41% 26-37%
Obese 42%+ 38%+

In the OFFSEASON bodybuilders may bulk up to 20% - especially endomorphs.


155lb @ 5'10" even at 4% BF (which is almost impossible to reach without drugs and a very restrictive lifestyle) is not bodybuilding.

If a 5'10" guy competed in the under 160lb class he would be half a foot taller than everyone else.

155 @ 5"10" is too skinny at any % BF - look at Brad Pitt in fight club 5'11" @ 165 - he looks great, but at no point is he like a bodybuilder, his thighs are about as big as my arms!

Pitt

If you want to look like that then all cool - that's achievable!

 

[Will Goes Boing]

That's the thing though I'm not trying to look like a body builder. I race motorcycles so I can't be too heavy. The goal is to be as light as possible but be as strong as possible, so I want an athletic build. At one point I tried to achieve that at 140, but there was just no way I can be strong at that weight. I have been at 155-160 before and that was when I was decently strong so I figured that is a good power to weight ratio.

I've been doing a lot of 5x5's.... so I guess I've been doing it wrong. I will up my reps on my compound lifts. But once I start cutting should I keep doing compound lifts?

 

[Will Goes Boing]

The American Council on Exercise has categorized ranges of body fat percentages as follows:

Description Women Men
Essential fat 10–12% 2–4%
Athletes 14–20% 6–13%
Fitness 21–24% 14–17%
Acceptable 25–31% 18–25%
Overweight 32-41% 26-37%
Obese 42%+ 38%+

In the OFFSEASON bodybuilders may bulk up to 20% - especially endomorphs.


155lb @ 5'10" even at 4% BF (which is almost impossible to reach without drugs and a very restrictive lifestyle) is not bodybuilding.

If a 5'10" guy competed in the under 160lb class he would be half a foot taller than everyone else.

155 @ 5"10" is too skinny at any % BF - look at Brad Pitt in fight club 5'11" @ 165 - he looks great, but at no point is he like a bodybuilder, his thighs are about as big as my arms!

Pitt

If you want to look like that then all cool - that's achievable!

Yep that's the physique that I'm trying to aim for. And I'm not sure if you've seen that movie "Never back down". But that guy Cam Giganet who stars as Ryan is skinny yet absolutely ripped.

I might not get there until I do another bulking and cutting cycle though. But then again I still have 15 more lbs of muscle to put on before I cut so it's highly possible. I just need to know how I should lift to gain muscle.

From what I read, some were saying "using high reps for TONING" is ridiculous, because muscle is muscle. Whether you're trying to be bulky or toned the whole point is to pack on the muscle first. And if you want to be "cut/ripped/shredded" whatever, you have to cut the bodyfat to have definition.

That's why I was confused as to whether I should lift heavy compound now to build muscle, or if I should do high reps and do mostly isolation.

 

[artificialaspirations]

compound is better imo... but homestly you may want to bulk a bit more before you cut... even if using aas because you will lose some muscle...
definately stick with the compound lifts to build the house... worry about the details later or you can always throw in a few iso sets here and there...

I would not recommend steroids for this guys goals.

I recommend the compound lifts becasue as per your last post you are interested in strength. The 5x5 will get you there. The rest is diet. Increse cals to gain, decrease to lose.

 

[Unit 2005]

You americans are a little fatter than us brits....

 

[future]

The American Council on Exercise has categorized ranges of body fat percentages as follows:

Description Women Men
Essential fat 10–12% 2–4%
Athletes 14–20% 6–13%
Fitness 21–24% 14–17%
Acceptable 25–31% 18–25%
Overweight 32-41% 26-37%
Obese 42%+ 38%+

In the OFFSEASON bodybuilders may bulk up to 20% - especially endomorphs.


155lb @ 5'10" even at 4% BF (which is almost impossible to reach without drugs and a very restrictive lifestyle) is not bodybuilding.

If a 5'10" guy competed in the under 160lb class he would be half a foot taller than everyone else.

155 @ 5"10" is too skinny at any % BF - look at Brad Pitt in fight club 5'11" @ 165 - he looks great, but at no point is he like a bodybuilder, his thighs are about as big as my arms!

Pitt

If you want to look like that then all cool - that's achievable!

ACE has poor standars then. Different gov sites have Obese for men at 25% so I was off a bit.

 

[future]

The American Council on Exercise has categorized ranges of body fat percentages as follows:

Description Women Men
Essential fat 10–12% 2–4%
Athletes 14–20% 6–13%
Fitness 21–24% 14–17%
Acceptable 25–31% 18–25%
Overweight 32-41% 26-37%
Obese 42%+ 38%+

In the OFFSEASON bodybuilders may bulk up to 20% - especially endomorphs.


155lb @ 5'10" even at 4% BF (which is almost impossible to reach without drugs and a very restrictive lifestyle) is not bodybuilding.

If a 5'10" guy competed in the under 160lb class he would be half a foot taller than everyone else.

155 @ 5"10" is too skinny at any % BF - look at Brad Pitt in fight club 5'11" @ 165 - he looks great, but at no point is he like a bodybuilder, his thighs are about as big as my arms!

Pitt

If you want to look like that then all cool - that's achievable!

ACE has poor standars then. Different gov sites have Obese for men at 25% so I was off a bit.

 

[JDid23]

bodybuilders are so in tune with their bodies, that they train whatever needs to be trained and they train it hard... They can pin point their weaknesses, and they isolate that muscle and try to improve it

I just watched the movie Pumping Iron lol

 

[axemurderer]

I'll chime in since I'm an ectomorph and have tried both ways of training that are being discussed here. So here's my advice based on your goals:

Rotate your training between different styles of training. Do the 5x5 training style for 6-8 weeks, then do bodybuilding type training for 8-12 weeks. Break it up every now and then with a week or two of Crossfit training. You'll figure out which of those 3 styles will give you what you want, or you can just continue to rotate between them so you don't get burned out.

For "bodybuilding" type training, I recommend looking into Omega's program. Just use the money that you were probably saving up for gear. I've run his program for the past couple of months and it's been a real wake-up call. I used to train the 5x5 stuff a lot but was getting burned out. So far, I've gained 5 or so pounds (drug free) but my body looks much different. If you're Platinum, check out my thread in Omega's forum.

 

[Will Goes Boing]

What if I do 1 day of only compound lifts, 4 days of isolating exercises with corresponding compound lifts thrown into the mix?

For example on back day aside from a few isolation exercises I will throw in a 5x6-8 deadlift, or on shoulder day I will throw in a 5x6-8 standing military press?

 

[timtim]

What if I do 1 day of only compound lifts, 4 days of isolating exercises with corresponding compound lifts thrown into the mix?

For example on back day aside from a few isolation exercises I will throw in a 5x6-8 deadlift, or on shoulder day I will throw in a 5x6-8 standing military press?

research periodization and you are set.

 

[fortunatesun]

I think you'd be much more successful with this:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/ultimate-training-split-650464.html The Ultimate Training Split

The thing is whatever your goal is you have to build the proper foundation. It's not just about getting strong or making certain body parts pop but getting all the parts working together to build the desired effect. It's the only way you can take it to the next level.

You're not going to be able to do this segregating your program and with only one day of compound lifts. You shouldn't be thinking in terms of either/or but in striking a balance. Unless you have lot's of experience it doesn't make sense to guess when there's proven ideas that work.

You said you wanted an 'athletic' look, that's what Kelly Baggett is good at - building athletes. You'll find enough leeway here to personalize your program and at the same time get the fundamentals you need to be successful. The important thing is you'll be getting off on the right foot. You may not want to be a 'strength athlete' but if you're going to spend time in the gym, you've still got to pay those dues, no way around it.

 

[moya]

I would not recommend steroids for this guys goals.

I recommend the compound lifts becasue as per your last post you are interested in strength. The 5x5 will get you there. The rest is diet. Increse cals to gain, decrease to lose.

i did not reccoment steroids at all... i was simply stating that when he cuts it will be hard enough to keep as much muscle as he would need to be 155@8% on aas...let alone nattural so what i was getting at was he should bulk up more... sorry if i wasnt clear on that... but i definately wasnt reccomending aas...
...as far as the compound lifts go... if you want to be functionaly strong that IS THE WAY TO GO... if you want to just look strong... go ahead with the iso moves...

 

[SaiBoT]

I think you'd be much more successful with this:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/ultimate-training-split-650464.html The Ultimate Training Split

The thing is whatever your goal is you have to build the proper foundation. It's not just about getting strong or making certain body parts pop but getting all the parts working together to build the desired effect. It's the only way you can take it to the next level.

You're not going to be able to do this segregating your program and with only one day of compound lifts. You shouldn't be thinking in terms of either/or but in striking a balance. Unless you have lot's of experience it doesn't make sense to guess when there's proven ideas that work.

You said you wanted an 'athletic' look, that's what Kelly Baggett is good at - building athletes. You'll find enough leeway here to personalize your program and at the same time get the fundamentals you need to be successful. The important thing is you'll be getting off on the right foot. You may not want to be a 'strength athlete' but if you're going to spend time in the gym, you've still got to pay those dues, no way around it.

Great advice here, if i wasn't so obsessed with all this and could only hit the gym 3 times a week i would follow this split.