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Birthright citizenship

big4life

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Now if some conservative lawmakers have their way, being born here will not make you a citizen of the US. I guess you will have to pass the skin color test, or maybe have a big enough bank account. Oh yeah, but it's not because of race. :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051226/ap_on_re_us/illegal_immigrants_birthright

NEW YORK - A proposal to change long-standing federal policy and deny citizenship to babies born to illegal immigrants on U.S. soil ran aground this month in Congress, but it is sure to resurface — kindling bitter debate even if it fails to become law.

At issue is "birthright citizenship" — provided for since the Constitution's 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868.

Section 1 of that amendment, drafted with freed slaves in mind, says: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States."

Some conservatives in Congress, as well as advocacy groups seeking to crack down on illegal immigration, say the amendment has been misapplied over the years, that it was never intended to grant citizenship automatically to babies of illegal immigrants. Thus they contend that federal legislation, rather than a difficult-to-achieve constitutional amendment, would be sufficient to end birthright citizenship.

With more than 70 co-sponsors, Georgia Republican Rep. Nathan Deal (news, bio, voting record) tried to include a revocation of birthright citizenship in an immigration bill passed by the House in mid-December. GOP House leaders did not let the proposal come to a vote.

"Most Americans feel it doesn't make any sense for people to come into the country illegally, give birth and have a new U.S. citizen," said Ira Mehlman of the Federation of American Immigration Reform, which backs Deal's proposal. "But the advocates for illegal immigrants will make a fuss; they'll claim you're punishing the children, and I suspect the leadership doesn't want to deal with that."

Deal has said he will continue pushing the issue, describing birthright citizenship as "a huge magnet" attracting illegal immigrants. He cited estimates — challenged by immigrant advocates — that roughly 10 percent of births in the United States, or close to 400,000 a year, are babies born to illegal immigrants.

"It's an issue that we are very concerned about," said Michele Waslin, director of immigration policy research for the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy organization that opposes any effort to revoke birthright citizenship.

"This was always seen in the past as some extreme, wacko proposal that never goes anywhere," she said. "But these so-called wacko proposals are becoming more and more mainstream — it's becoming more acceptable to have a discussion about it."

Alvaro Huerta of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles said his organization opposes Deal's proposal and is girding for a battle for public opinion.

"This is red meat for conservatives," he said. "They throw out these issues they know aren't winning issues, and they create an environment of anti-immigrant sentiment. We need to do better job of educating people why it's wrong."

According to a survey last month by Rasmussen Reports, a nonpartisan public opinion research firm, 49 percent of Americans favor ending birthright citizenship, and 41 percent favor keeping it. The margin of error was plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., a leading proponent of tougher measures to stop illegal immigration, believes public opinion could shift further in favor of Deal's measure.

"Any issue that has a `damn right' response, you can go with," Tancredo said. "You ask if we should stop illegal immigrants from coming onto this country and having a baby here who is an American citizen, and most people say, `Damn right.'"

However, Tancredo acknowledged that Deal's measure faces major obstacles. Though he believes the House GOP leadership will eventually allow the proposal to come to a vote, Tancredo said it could flounder in the Senate or draw a veto from President Bush, who has sought to steer a middle course on some immigration issues.

The best strategy, Tancredo suggested, might be to avoid presenting the measure as a separate, stand-alone bill and instead add it to a broader piece of legislation that the Senate could not disregard.

Tancredo, Deal and others have noted that the United States is among the relatively few wealthy nations that allow birthright citizenship.

However, Lucas Guttentag, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Immigrants' Rights Project, said some Western European nations with different policies have suffered problems.

"Look at Germany — the children of guest workers are not citizens," he said. "That creates enormous social and racial tensions. That's the opposite of where we want to go."

Guttentag also said the federal courts would probably strike down any measure that challenged the 14th Amendment's citizenship guarantees.

"It's a far-fetched, fundamentally misguided and unconstitutional proposal," he said. "It's not the kind of proposal that gets taken seriously by those who actually want to grapple with immigration issues."

Some critics of current policy refer to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants as "anchor babies" because — when they reach adulthood — they can sponsor their parents for legal permanent residency. Immigrants-rights groups say the number of such cases is smaller than critics allege, but authoritative statistics are scarce.
 
big4life said:
Now if some conservative lawmakers have their way, being born here will not make you a citizen of the US. I guess you will have to pass the skin color test, or maybe have a big enough bank account. Oh yeah, but it's not because of race. :rolleyes:

There's nothing like driving up to the international boundary to make you think real hard about what it means to be a citizen. What the hell does that cracker plan to substitute for the clean, bright line of where someone was born?
 
Im not sure if im for or against this admendment i would have to read the wording but I am sure something must be looked at for a solution.
 
Sean Scott said:
Im not sure if im for or against this admendment i would have to read the wording but I am sure something must be looked at for a solution.


Maybe something needs to be done, but to start saying that someone born on US soil is not a citizen is one very scary thought. What makes someone a citizen? Does everyone have to pass a test?
 
This sounds like a great idea considering what a problem illegal immigration is in this country.
 
I think it's a great idea.

But I live in an area where the illegals are numerous and they have no plans of becoming citizens, they come here as tourists on a plane while pregnant, get on welfare and have their child in the US (anchor babies) and after the child is born he or she will immediately qualify for federal, state and local benefit programs.

We have illegals getting cash paying jobs from businesses willing to break the law, they live 3-4 families to a house and send anywhere from 4-12 children to the local schools - flooding them with kids they don't have the space for. In the evenings the parents willing are taught English at the schools for free while the local cops and EMT’s have to go out and pay to learn Spanish because they are now required to be bi-lingual. They don't pay taxes and have no plans to become legal citizens and why should they if they can get government support for free and get paid cash for the work the “lazy white man” isn't willing to do?

This not only angers the locals that have been born and raised in the US for generations it angers the immigrants that wait 5 YEARS to be citizens while jumping through hoops and endless paperwork the entire way.

I'm all for it - when mommie and daddy become legal the kid can too.
 
My problem with it is two fold.

1. I don't trust politicians. They do what is popular at the time, and then they "say" they will go back later and fix any problems with this bill or others like it.

2. The idea that being born here doesn't make you a citizen. We already have loopholes for those from Cuba, once you set foot on US soil you're free to stay. Is this law going to have loopholes for those from Europe? I just see this as something that could get very messy, and knowing the politicians, it will get very messy.

I can see this bill leading to the government excluding citizenship rights to children when their parents are from the wrong country, but extending these rights to others who are from the right countries.
 
it's not uncommon for pregnant mexican womnen to stnad next to the border. when thy go into labor -- they jump across.

we pay for that adding insult to it too.
 
velvett said:
I think it's a great idea.

But I live in an area where the illegals are numerous and they have no plans of becoming citizens, they come here as tourists on a plane while pregnant, get on welfare and have their child in the US (anchor babies) and after the child is born he or she will immediately qualify for federal, state and local benefit programs.

We have illegals getting cash paying jobs from businesses willing to break the law, they live 3-4 families to a house and send anywhere from 4-12 children to the local schools - flooding them with kids they don't have the space for. In the evenings the parents willing are taught English at the schools for free while the local cops and EMT’s have to go out and pay to learn Spanish because they are now required to be bi-lingual. They don't pay taxes and have no plans to become legal citizens and why should they if they can get government support for free and get paid cash for the work the “lazy white man” isn't willing to do?

This not only angers the locals that have been born and raised in the US for generations it angers the immigrants that wait 5 YEARS to be citizens while jumping through hoops and endless paperwork the entire way.

I'm all for it - when mommie and daddy become legal the kid can too.

That's beautiful...I was too in a situation where I saw this first hand (back in the day). I agree with you a 100% these things need to be looked at very closely.
 
big4life said:
My problem with it is two fold.

1. I don't trust politicians. They do what is popular at the time, and then they "say" they will go back later and fix any problems with this bill or others like it.

2. The idea that being born here doesn't make you a citizen. We already have loopholes for those from Cuba, once you set foot on US soil you're free to stay. Is this law going to have loopholes for those from Europe? I just see this as something that could get very messy, and knowing the politicians, it will get very messy.

I can see this bill leading to the government excluding citizenship rights to children when their parents are from the wrong country, but extending these rights to others who are from the right countries.
But, for every concern you have, the other concern is that you're "flooding" city and state resources with illegals that they aren't equiped for.
 
velvett said:
I think it's a great idea.

But I live in an area where the illegals are numerous and they have no plans of becoming citizens, they come here as tourists on a plane while pregnant, get on welfare and have their child in the US (anchor babies) and after the child is born he or she will immediately qualify for federal, state and local benefit programs.

We have illegals getting cash paying jobs from businesses willing to break the law, they live 3-4 families to a house and send anywhere from 4-12 children to the local schools - flooding them with kids they don't have the space for. In the evenings the parents willing are taught English at the schools for free while the local cops and EMT’s have to go out and pay to learn Spanish because they are now required to be bi-lingual. They don't pay taxes and have no plans to become legal citizens and why should they if they can get government support for free and get paid cash for the work the “lazy white man” isn't willing to do?

This not only angers the locals that have been born and raised in the US for generations it angers the immigrants that wait 5 YEARS to be citizens while jumping through hoops and endless paperwork the entire way.

I'm all for it - when mommie and daddy become legal the kid can too.
i totally agree
We have to pay taxes on them being here and getting welfare and stuff, but because they are illegal, they dont pay taxes, correct?
 
SoKlueles said:
i totally agree
We have to pay taxes on them being here and getting welfare and stuff, but because they are illegal, they dont pay taxes, correct?


of course they dont pay taxes. Without a socilal security number, the IRS cant touch them. The worst is that they even have them babies in hospitals for free cause they are required to take care of everyone that walks in that hospital and then they cant find them to pay the bill
 
foreigngirl said:
of course they dont pay taxes. Without a socilal security number, the IRS cant touch them. The worst is that they even have them babies in hospitals for free cause they are required to take care of everyone that walks in that hospital and then they cant find them to pay the bill
well then make em get their freakin citizenship
they reap the benefits of the US let them pay the taxes like the US
 
We should shut our borders to everyone. If you want to come to America, you better pay the fuck up bitches!!! :Chef:
 
SoKlueles said:
well then make em get their freakin citizenship
they reap the benefits of the US let them pay the taxes like the US

well, thats why the presidents have some amnesties for those who came legally and stayed longer illigaly - so they can get working permit and SSN so they can pay up. All those people like that make me furious, cause when I came, I had to pay for my immigration visa, go to medicals, get shots etc and these people - nothing.
 
Make no mistake about it, this bill is not aimed at "all" illegal aliens, just the brown skin ones who speak spanish.

I fine it strange that people complain about them taking jobs, not paying taxes, and being a drain on society, yet nobody says anything about the people who hire them and pay them in cash, without taking taxes out, because they know they are illegals. Then there are the people who rent to them, knowing the same thing. The people you should be careful of are the ones making money off the illegals, and then bitching about "these people" coming into our country.
 
big4life said:
Make no mistake about it, this bill is not aimed at "all" illegal aliens, just the brown skin ones who speak spanish.

I fine it strange that people complain about them taking jobs, not paying taxes, and being a drain on society, yet nobody says anything about the people who hire them and pay them in cash, without taking taxes out, because they know they are illegals. Then there are the people who rent to them, knowing the same thing. The people you should be careful of are the ones making money off the illegals, and then bitching about "these people" coming into our country.


well, they should be reported to the Better Business Berau
 
big4life said:
Make no mistake about it, this bill is not aimed at "all" illegal aliens, just the brown skin ones who speak spanish.

I fine it strange that people complain about them taking jobs, not paying taxes, and being a drain on society, yet nobody says anything about the people who hire them and pay them in cash, without taking taxes out, because they know they are illegals. Then there are the people who rent to them, knowing the same thing. The people you should be careful of are the ones making money off the illegals, and then bitching about "these people" coming into our country.
I'm not sure I get it.

So, even if the bill is "aimed" at a segment of illegal aliens; is that bad? Isn't it still somewhat good that it tries to tackle part of the problem (if not all of the problem)? Is there a stat on the percentage of illegals across nationality? If mexicans are the largest, then wouldn't you agree that its a good thing by trying to tackle the big problems first?

I would assume that mexicans are the majority, but then again, I'm an ignorant canuck who eats whale blubber. :)
 
EnderJE said:
I'm not sure I get it.

So, even if the bill is "aimed" at a segment of illegal aliens; is that bad? Isn't it still somewhat good that it tries to tackle part of the problem (if not all of the problem)? Is there a stat on the percentage of illegals across nationality? If mexicans are the largest, then wouldn't you agree that its a good thing by trying to tackle the big problems first?

I would assume that mexicans are the majority, but then again, I'm an ignorant canuck who eats whale blubber. :)


Then the politicians, and everyone else need to stand up and say this is aimed at this group of people. Instead they stutter and stammer when asked about this, and tell you that it's aimed at "all" illegal imigrants. All I'm asking for is for them to say what they really mean, and not hide behind semantics. Then we will see how many people vote for this bill.

To be honest when I first read this I thought of all the laws in the deep south that were put into place to keep blacks from voting. You had to be able to pass a literacy test before you could register to vote. This law didn't say that only black's had to pass this test, but thats what it was all about.

Two different times, and laws, but both aimed at one group of people, without saying thats what the intent is.
 
big4life said:
Make no mistake about it, this bill is not aimed at "all" illegal aliens, just the brown skin ones who speak spanish.

I fine it strange that people complain about them taking jobs, not paying taxes, and being a drain on society, yet nobody says anything about the people who hire them and pay them in cash, without taking taxes out, because they know they are illegals. Then there are the people who rent to them, knowing the same thing. The people you should be careful of are the ones making money off the illegals, and then bitching about "these people" coming into our country.


That's the main issue at hand and it's unfortunate people dont' speak up about it. If local gov'ts would crack down on companies who support/participate in such actions, less illegals would come into the US. Most who work here illegally, make their money then send it back home thus resulting in them not contributing to society at all.

Failure to integrate should be grounds to exterminate (a little extreme but it gets the point across) :p
 
Section 1 of the 14th Amendment reads as follows...

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Many conservatives, myself among them, do not believe that children born to illegal aliens fall under the jurisdiction of the United States, but, rather under the jurisdiction of the country that the parents have citizenship in. While I am in complete agreement that an amendment of the constitution to bar birthright citizenship would be a great way to cut down on the number of illegals coming into this country to have anchor babies, I do not believe that it would pass. Democrats look at illegals as potential votes, and Republicans look at illegals as a way to make businesses more competetive.

The solution, I think, is to look at legislation that would make illegals not fall under the jurisdiction of the US for citizenship purposes. With Alito all but guaranteed to the Supreme Court, the conststutionality of such legislation would stand a very good chance of being upheld, thus ending birthright citizenship without the need for a protracted political battle over a constitutional amendment.

In addition, the businesses that hire illegals need to be fined into bankruptcy, thus ending the impetus for illegals to come here in the first place. A doouble walled border fence over the entire US/Mexico border would be a help too.
 
For those that support this bill, here are a couple questions.

1- What about children born to parents with green cards who are not yet citizens? Are they issued green cards too?

2- What about children born to parents trying to escape persecution in another country?

3- What if later someone looks at this law and applies it to other children born in the US, based solely on where their parents came from, no matter how long they have been here?


Don't be so fast to sign away someone else's rights, because if you're not careful, you might be signing away your own rights.
 
big4life said:
For those that support this bill, here are a couple questions.

1- What about children born to parents with green cards who are not yet citizens? Are they issued green cards too?

2- What about children born to parents trying to escape persecution in another country?

3- What if later someone looks at this law and applies it to other children born in the US, based solely on where their parents came from, no matter how long they have been here?


Don't be so fast to sign away someone else's rights, because if you're not careful, you might be signing away your own rights.
You are absolutely right. If we sign the bill, we might as well fire up the gas chambers and paint SS on the US flag.

:rolleyes:
 
EnderJE said:
You are absolutely right. If we sign the bill, we might as well fire up the gas chambers and paint SS on the US flag.

:rolleyes:


Nope, just pointing out that a law that might not have an impact on you today, could very well bite you in the ass tomorrow.
 
Who cares? If someone who is not a US citizen has a kid then that kid should not be a us citizen just because there mom hopped the border and had the thing here. 400,000 plus born to illegal immigrants a year in the US! Thats probably a conservative figure too. The fact is illegal immigrants period not just a certain race are a huge problem in the US and it just so happens that the majority of these immgirants are mexicans. The people hiring them for cheap labor are just as bad because they are putting american workers out of jobs as well. I think its a good idea. If you are to be a citizen here you need to fully understand the English language, if you dont or have no desire to then you should not become a citizen. I hope they build a wall the entire length of the mexican border myself, that alone will help out alot.
 
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