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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!


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Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

harhar said:
can the bench be replaced with dips?

Absolutely not - unless there is some injury but the absolute bottom line is that you will sacrifice gains in your lifts and muscle. You should read the very top post on this page. There is a subsection on Exercise Substitution. The first words are "Don't fuck with this." There's some fairly humorous stuff in there along with what is and isn't acceptable. The bottom line is that 99% of the changes people want to make will either hurt the program or simply waste time. So if one is injured and it's the best one can do, that's fine but if I let everyone change it around at will, no one would be getting good gains and instead of hearing "This program really worked for me" they'd be saying "Yeah, I tried that but I went back to what I was doing before and it worked better." Check out the Exercise Subsitution section though -


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Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Single Rep Maximum Equations and Rep Estimates

Since some people have asked here's a few ways you can do it. You can easily adapt these equations into an Excel spreadsheet. Calculators can also be found here: (equation source)

The only real value added by me is some basic algebra but at least it's here for reference. Of course, an understanding of order of operations in math is kind of essential for using the equations below (just working from inside the nests of brackets, deepest first should be fine). Otherwise, just rely on the tools above.

Brzycki's equation to determine Max load

(not recommended if your estimate is based on more reps than around 10)

The Brzycki equation is as follows:

1RM = Weight ÷ ( 1.0278 - ( 0.0278 × Number of repetitions ) )

From there you can:

1) Calculate intensity for whatever percentage of your 1RM you deem appropriate

2) Reverse the formula to back out your maximum weight with any number of reps:

Weight = 1RM X ( 1.0278 - ( 0.0278 × Desired number of repetitions ) )

An alternative equation to determine Max load

The alternative equation is as follows:

1RM = Weight × ( 1 + ( 0.033 × Number of repetitions ) )

The corresponding reversed equation is:

Weight = 1RM ÷ ( 1 + ( 0.033 × Desired number of repetitions ) )
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Just finished up the week working out MWF. I have a question, my split has to change now to tues thurs and sat, so instead of the normal 2 days off then working out again on monday, do i take an extra day off, or work out sunday tues thurs and sat just to get the split going, then maintain tues, thurs, sat?


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I've been going to the gym for about 7.5 months now and Im thinking of starting a single factor beginner program. Just a few questions though.

Can I add pull ups to the three days? Would ab work on Mon and Fri affect me negatively? Do I need to do incline bench or can this be replaced with an overhead press? And one more thing, how long should I be on the single factor program before moving onto the dual factor?


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You can add pullups to the Wednesday workout. I believe the program specifically calls for ab and core work on M/W. You can do it whenever, timing is not so important as long as it is not directly before the weights. You can swap out incline for standing military or push presses.

-I'll just add - deadlifts are not touch and go. Each rep is fully deweighted upon the floor before you pull again (you don't need to let go or do a major reset but that bar comes to a complete unsupported rest on the ground). Squats are full range olympic style. You go as low as your body will take you.

As far as length of time, do it until you aren't making progress anymore. You might also do it for a period and then lift light for 2 weeks or so (2x per week, lower volume) to recover a bit and then step back into it again. Here is another thread that illustrates a squatting program that carries lifters between 1-2 years before they begin the dual factor version of the program. Might be a good frame of reference:


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Hi Madcow2.

You say that Force=Mass*Acceleration.

Some days ago, i got a newsletter from AST.

Is strict form restricting your
muscle gains?

by Skip La Cour
2x Team Universe Overall Champion
5x Team Universe Heavyweight Champion

What is your definition of “form”?

Think about that question for a moment. How you perceive the meaning of form can make the difference between mediocre gains over the years—and packing-on the most thick, rock-hard muscle possible in the shortest period of time.

Form means using technique during an exercise to effectively stimulate the muscle for growth. It does not mean rigid, deliberate exercise execution. Overloading the targeted muscle group stimulates maximum growth—not strict form.

Yes, I realize that the textbooks, personal trainers, and the “know-it-alls” in your gym always cram the importance of strict form down your throat.

But, what is your real goal? To train in a manner that everyone in your gym will accept? Or, train in a way that packs on muscle faster? Focus on what produces results—not just the methods that are supposed to get you those results.

Think about it. The safest, most conservative advice when it comes to training that anyone could give you would be to “always use strict form.”

But I’m telling you that advice will not maximize your potential to build the most muscle in the shortest period of time.

Let’s say that you were a runner striving to be your very best and I was your doctor. You came to me complaining that your knees hurt when you ran. The safest, most-widely accepted recommendation I could give you would be to stop running for awhile, wouldn’t it?

How could I go wrong with that advice? I couldn’t. But would you be able to maximize your running potential in the shortest period of time? Who knows for sure? You aren’t even trying to get the most out of what ability you do have.

Have you ever noticed that some of the most successful, dedicated, and hardest working bodybuilders in the world use what some would call “less-than-perfect” form?

The best bodybuilders in the world have gone beyond conventional thinking and have discovered that overloading the targeted muscle group stimulates maximum growth—not strict form.

Now, the question to you. Should i use the cheated flattery form with the full speed, or should the full speed only be used at good technique? I especially want to know it regarding the JSROWs. They are done in a way where the technique can be easily destroyed-


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1) The JSRows are perfectly safe. The issue, I guess, is in someone implementing the technique over the internet, missing something, and training it very hard and very heavy (a la 5x5) right away without any type of accomodation. My new description of this program (first post at the top of this page) has an item titles "common sense" under a section called "The Lifts". If someone is unfamiliar with a variant of these lifts, they simply can't jump in and expect to perform at 100% within 2 weeks. It's unsafe. Some people who's technique is probably already similar (i.e. 90 degrees) and who do a lot of heavy rowing might not have an issue but I think this is where it stems from. The lift itself is safe like any free weight motion, the issue of injury comes in the implementation and I think a few people have pushed it too hard too fast. Acceleration in the row itself is not unsafe because it is smooth acceleration without any jerking. Get the weight moving and continue to move it faster and faster. You don't jerk it off the ground.

2) So first, I'm talking about acceleration as it pertains to the concentric phase of a rep. F=M*A is just a basic physics 101 equation. It also assumes constant technique as technique alterations will change the way a weight loads on the body's muscles and joints. Skip is right in that you can't always use 100% picture perfect form - i.e. a record triple will generally have less than 100% technique on the final rep as support muscles and primary movers begin to fatique (otherwise you could get another). I'm not talking about dogshit unsafe form but less than 100% perfect. This really doesn't have much to do with F = M * A simply because a constant is assumed there. When using maximum intensity (i.e. a rep in the 95%-100% range) maximum acceleration still yeilds a pretty slow rep. Acceleration is much more of a factor in weights < 80-85% range and this tends to be where most people train with volume at least for a good portion of the period as weights above that are very taxing on the CNS so you have to be somewhat careful on applying too many of them.

One other thing is don't read to much into BBing literature. Most of what is written for BBers is either common sense or totally wrong. I mean, no offense to Skip, but fatigue on hard sets and form dropping below 100% - I'd have never thought it worth putting down on paper let alone printing up in an article. There's a link in the table of contents of this thread that has good sources of knowledge, books, etc... Definitely a far better place to glean training advice from.