Best stack for keeping gains

[Icon1985]

Can anybody suggest the best AS for keeping gains. I seem to be really bad at keeping gains depsite PCT - post cycle therapy - and decent diet i managed to lose 70%

As an example i tried Sdrol/m-drol recently (supplement i know!) but i lost the vast majority of the gains within 3 weeks. Lost about 7 of 11 pounds added.

Am i likely to keep more gains with test & something stacked?

My build is naturally small and I find it very hard to make gains and keep them.

I am about 75kgs, training for a few years, on and off, and want to add some mass that will stay, as safely as possible.

Would something like Test, Primobolan and Anavar be a good stack?

Thanks for your help.

 

[swole]

you answered your own question

 

[Nelson Montana]

YOu used crap supplements so what's the surprise? You train on and off so how do expect to keep gains, especially if you're naturally small?

I'd suggest going to back to some good supps (BIG BLAST,UNLEASHED etc) and learning more about training and hitting it hard and seriously. Eat more. And more. And more.

If you do gear now you'll be asking the same question in 6 months.

 

[Tatyana]

Can anybody suggest the best AS for keeping gains. I seem to be really bad at keeping gains depsite PCT - post cycle therapy - and decent diet i managed to lose 70%

As an example i tried Sdrol/m-drol recently (supplement i know!) but i lost the vast majority of the gains within 3 weeks. Lost about 7 of 11 pounds added.

Am i likely to keep more gains with test & something stacked?

My build is naturally small and I find it very hard to make gains and keep them.

I am about 75kgs, training for a few years, on and off, and want to add some mass that will stay, as safely as possible.

Would something like Test, Primobolan and Anavar be a good stack?

Thanks for your help.

Hello again

I guess you didn't like the answers last time when the lads and myself both indicated that it would be diet and training that will help you keep your gains.

You have started training a bit later in life, but it is amazing what you can do with transforming your body.

I would suggest you read a bit more about diet and training and come back with a few more specific questions in the diet and/or training sections.

If it was as easy as taking some tablets and a few injections, there would be stacks of 250 lb/18 stone men walking around.

But there isn't.

 

[swole]

Hello again

I guess you didn't like the answers last time when the lads and myself both indicated that it would be diet and training that will help you keep your gains.

You have started training a bit later in life, but it is amazing what you can do with transforming your body.

I would suggest you read a bit more about diet and training and come back with a few more specific questions in the diet and/or training sections.

If it was as easy as taking some tablets and a few injections, there would be stacks of 250 lb/18 stone men walking around.

But there isn't.

it's not that easy?? kidding

Tat and Nelson hit it on the head, I should have made a point about it.

I've seen more than a fair share of juicers lose everything they gained during a cycle because they got lazy afterwards. You should be making a point to eat better and train harder, all day, everyday. It's about consistency. It's a lifestyle. Make training and eating for goals a habit.

Training "on and off" gives the impression you're looking for a quick fix during those months you do train.

 

[Tatyana]

it's not that easy?? kidding

Tat and Nelson hit it on the head, I should have made a point about it.

I've seen more than a fair share of juicers lose everything they gained during a cycle because they got lazy afterwards. You should be making a point to eat better and train harder, all day, everyday. It's about consistency. It's a lifestyle. Make training and eating for goals a habit.

Training "on and off" gives the impression you're looking for a quick fix during those months you do train.

To be fair, his first thread was in supplements
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bodybuilding-supplements/best-stack-keeping-gains-592591.html


I do think that there is probably A LOT you can do with modifications to your diet and training.

I was clueless at first.

Steroids are only 'performance-enhancing'. They don't do the job for you.

 

[Icon1985]

Thanks for replies (previous post was moved to another board so that's why reposted on correct board)

I'll take another look at the diet. I am not sure how much more I can add to it other than eating like 6 times a day and good protein, and creatine and protein drinks and lots of water etc

I have a lot of time at the moment...I won't have such time available later (obviously i will continue training!)

THe reason i stopped and started was pains in my shoulder BTW.

I train about 3 times a week (for the last 6 months) and strength is increasing slowly...but adding weight is very slow.

Any suggestions welcome on diet. I will post it again here:

My DAILY diet is something like this per day: (no gluten or dairy )
Breakfast- 4 eggs, toast, rice cereal, banana,
11am whey protein drink (including creatine powder) - can of fish
2pm chicken breasts and rice,
workout - followed by protein drink
5pm steak sandwich
8pm 4 egg omellete with olives, tomatoes, onion
11pm banana sandwiches, protein drink

TRAINING about 3 or 4 times week, split into shoulders, chest, legs.

thank u all

 

[james629]

I did not see your other post, but how old are you and what are your stats? How long have you been training. In my opinion 4 days a week is bare MINIMUM you should train, unless you are training for powerlifting/ strongman where the body needs the longer rest.

 

[Tatyana]

I did not see your other post, but how old are you and what are your stats? How long have you been training. In my opinion 4 days a week is bare MINIMUM you should train, unless you are training for powerlifting/ strongman where the body needs the longer rest.

That is debatable, some hardgainers make better progress training as little as two days a week/full body workout.

My training buddy is doing great on three days a week right now.

Icon, maybe you could cut and paste some of the stuff across from your other thread in supplements.

 

[Icon1985]

cheers!!! THANKS!

I have been told and have read numerous articles saying that more than 3 times will not give my muscles time to recover as I am hard gainer. I tend to agree with this although people have different opinions.

Training: The reason I don't mix up training is cos I like to compare how I am performing to the previous workout (diary). I spose I could change exercises, but I have been told the main compound ones have to stay.

Normally i would do something like this in a week, with few minor changes- takes 1 hour.

Chest: Bench press; Bar curl; dumb fly; incline dumb press; inc sit ups with weight

Shoulders: Press Behind neck; military press; standing dumb raise; bent/upright bar row; sit ups

Legs/back: Squat; wide grip pulldown; leg press; seated row; calf raise; sit ups.

FOOD: I eat normal sized portions. I don't count exact calories, but estimate I get about 170-200g protein a day. I take extra fish oil supps.

 

[james629]

3 X a week maybe enough if the intensity is there.

 

[Tatyana]

3 X a week maybe enough if the intensity is there.

Exactly. I think that is something a lot of people have to learn, it is the most difficult thing, to get how to tap into your potential, know that it is going to be an effort and that it is going to hurt.

 

[Tatyana]

Thanks for replies (previous post was moved to another board so that's why reposted on correct board)

I'll take another look at the diet. I am not sure how much more I can add to it other than eating like 6 times a day and good protein, and creatine and protein drinks and lots of water etc

I have a lot of time at the moment...I won't have such time available later (obviously i will continue training!)

THe reason i stopped and started was pains in my shoulder BTW.

I train about 3 times a week (for the last 6 months) and strength is increasing slowly...but adding weight is very slow.

Any suggestions welcome on diet. I will post it again here:

My DAILY diet is something like this per day: (no gluten or dairy )

Breakfast- 4 eggs, toast, rice cereal, banana,

I would suggest you try old fashioned oats, at least a cup, every now and then. If you are gluten sensitive, there is also spelt flakes, quinoa flakes, brown rice flakes, check Holland and Barratt's.

Throw in some seeds and nuts for extra calories and good fat, and I also love mixing my whey into the oats.



11am whey protein drink (including creatine powder) - can of fish

Why creatine here? Post workout is a better place.

Also, real food is always better, so some good quality bread like the Food doctor, or some of the organic pitas from Asda's etc (they are only whole wheat flour) with fish/tuna, and either some veggies/salad or fruit.

2pm chicken breasts and rice,

Add some veggies. Brown or white rice? If white, go for basmati.


workout - followed by protein drink

Add creatine and some simple carbs, milk is great for this, really insulinogenic.

5pm steak sandwich

Could you elaborate on what this is? Again, quality of the bread might be an issue, add veggies.

8pm 4 egg omellete with olives, tomatoes, onion




11pm banana sandwiches, protein drink

Banana sandwich? Again, could you elaborate on what it is? I would alternate with things like cottage cheese, or some yogurt with whey protein mixed in.



TRAINING about 3 or 4 times week, split into shoulders, chest, legs.

thank u all

Lads, I have my diet head on right now, so some suggestions for more of a bulking diet would be helpful.

 

[hehateme000]

i think a great meal for post-workout is tuna on bread open-faced with 2 cups of milk. for me 2 cups of milk, 2 pieces of bread, 2 cans of tuna and 3tbsp of mayo is 1220 calories. All good for you (fats in mayo are mostly unsaturated and like Tat said--milk is great post workout)

 

[Nelson Montana]

i think a great meal for post-workout is tuna on bread open-faced with 2 cups of milk. for me 2 cups of milk, 2 pieces of bread, 2 cans of tuna and 3tbsp of mayo is 1220 calories. All good for you (fats in mayo are mostly unsaturated and like Tat said--milk is great post workout)

Tuna and milk? Eck.

 

[hehateme000]

Tuna and milk? Eck.

eck for being a bad post workout meal or for the combination lol?

Milk and Bread for Carbs (100% whole wheat, but i could understand where white is better because it gets converted faster)

Tuna and Milk for protein

Mayo has good fats (Not sure if u should have fat after a workout but they are unsaturated so its not unhealthy fats)

 

[n1tro]

Tuna and milk? Eck.

I fuckin HATE the taste of tuna, so the way I eat it...straight out of the can...zero preperation to even attempt at making that disgusting stuff taste good (it's impossible) so I shovel it in and wash down with milk. Its quick, its painless and it works.

As for the cycle, test and tren....and theres no such thing as on and off training...if thats how you feel, you have already screwed yourself. Steroids dont work without the weights.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Tuna and milk? Eck.

The idea of drinking milk with fish...

 

[Tatyana]

I fuckin HATE the taste of tuna, so the way I eat it...straight out of the can...zero preperation to even attempt at making that disgusting stuff taste good (it's impossible) so I shovel it in and wash down with milk. Its quick, its painless and it works.

As for the cycle, test and tren....and theres no such thing as on and off training...if thats how you feel, you have already screwed yourself. Steroids dont work without the weights.

I am with Nelson on that one, that is YUCK.

Even more minging, I know one bodybuilder who would blend tuna with diet coke and drink it.

I hated tuna until I got this recipe. Dead easy and you can modify it with all sorts of herbs or spices.

I got it from 'the short one' the fantastic Sallyanne, bless her bulging biceps

Drain 3-4 (or more) tins or foil packets of tuna

Rinse and drain again

Break into small bits

Add in 3-5 egg whites or whole eggs (depends on if you are stripping fat or building up), basically enough eggs or egg whites so the tuna sticks together.

Chop 3-5 spring onions

Salt and pepper to taste

Optional: 2-3 tablespoons of cooked oatmeal or rice

Mix and make into patties

I cook them with the one calorie spray in an non-stick frying pan.

I can even eat these cold.

Lately I have been not using green onions but using this Moroccan spice rub mix instead, YUM.

 

[sugashane]

Tat and Nelson are dead on. You also said that you've been training on and off, which means that even if you did a cycle, after you might slow down on training or stop completely whhen the gains drastically slowed down. Keep training with a great diet and you'll grow. After training become habitual, where you feel like you wasted a day by missing the gym, is the only time you should ever even bother thinking of gear. Good luck.

 

[james629]

know that it is going to be an effort and that it is going to hurt.

I love the way you make that sound

 

[perryscoon]

"Gains" is a very misleading and misunderstood word in the anabolic world.

ALL steroids build muscle, but SOME of them cause BLOAT which people misconstrue as "gains".

For example, you may gain 25lbs from dbol and lose 20lbs after. This doesn't mean you lost your "gains". You simply lost the water weight it caused. The 5lbs of muscle that you built is still there.

If you can't handle or simply don't like the mental impact losing water weight entails, then take the ones that don't bloat, such as tren, primo, var, halotestin, t-bol, winstrol, and eq.

Steroids that bloat and give the impression of false "gains":
test
dbol
deca
npp
anadrol

There is nothing wrong with these steroids. One must just realize that you are going to lose a ton of water weight when you come off and it is not to be perceived as a loss of gains.

 

[LiquidPhire]

The idea of drinking milk with fish...

lol I must agree here, but tuna is great source of protien just not when its washed down with milk. I like to add mine to a bowl of pasta (doing this now)

 

[LiquidPhire]

"Gains" is a very misleading and misunderstood word in the anabolic world.

ALL steroids build muscle, but SOME of them cause BLOAT which people misconstrue as "gains".

For example, you may gain 25lbs from dbol and lose 20lbs after. This doesn't mean you lost your "gains". You simply lost the water weight it caused. The 5lbs of muscle that you built is still there.

If you can't handle or simply don't like the mental impact losing water weight entails, then take the ones that don't bloat, such as tren, primo, var, halotestin, t-bol, winstrol, and eq.

Steroids that bloat and give the impression of false "gains":
test
dbol
deca
npp
anadrol

There is nothing wrong with these steroids. One must just realize that you are going to lose a ton of water weight when you come off and it is not to be perceived as a loss of gains.

Good point man

 

[ViperHMS]

FOOD: I eat normal sized portions. I don't count exact calories, but estimate I get about 170-200g protein a day. I take extra fish oil supps.

Bro start counting them. All thru high school I never seemed to be able to gain weight, but I was eating a lot of food. My problem was that i was so active that I was not eating enough to support the ability to be able to gain any weight. More or less I was burning more calories that i was consuming or just hitting it dead even.

It was not until I started rigorously counting my calories and seeing what i was eating everyday and how many calories I had consumed that I realized how little I was actually getting everyday. Once I began putting everything into a excel spreadsheet (which included cals, fat grams, carb grams, and protein grams) was I able to start meeting my goals. I had to start consuming 4-5k calories a day before I really started noticing that week after week I was starting to put on weight. Give it a shot. If you dont notice yourself making gains then up the calories 500 a day. I cannot stress this enough to people that ask me what they should do to gain weight....EAT MORE FOOD. Then when they say, "I eat all the time," I ask them, "Well how many calories are you eating a day?" Almost everytime without fail they say, UH I DONT KNOW!

I know there are some sites out there that have calorie counters that you can use. Hell if you want PM me and i'll send you a copy of my spreadsheet in excel that I use. Very easy to use.

 

[motiondo]

In the south (US) when you do this with Salmon instaed of tuna you are making what is called Salmon Croquets - It's an ol southern dish. Tuna, with a little sweet pickle relish, mayo, and two - three boiled eggs - mixed into a bowl and spread on wheat bread or toast is a Tasty meal...and damn good even with milk. (differnt tastes for diff folks. I guess Hahah...I love the stuff -2 to 3 times any day!

I am with Nelson on that one, that is YUCK.

Even more minging, I know one bodybuilder who would blend tuna with diet coke and drink it.

I hated tuna until I got this recipe. Dead easy and you can modify it with all sorts of herbs or spices.

I got it from 'the short one' the fantastic Sallyanne, bless her bulging biceps

Drain 3-4 (or more) tins or foil packets of tuna

Rinse and drain again

Break into small bits

Add in 3-5 egg whites or whole eggs (depends on if you are stripping fat or building up), basically enough eggs or egg whites so the tuna sticks together.

Chop 3-5 spring onions

Salt and pepper to taste

Optional: 2-3 tablespoons of cooked oatmeal or rice

Mix and make into patties

I cook them with the one calorie spray in an non-stick frying pan.

I can even eat these cold.

Lately I have been not using green onions but using this Moroccan spice rub mix instead, YUM.