Benching....legs up or down...

[Madcow2]

I have never seen an activity quite like weightlifting that is littered with so much bullshit and ridiculous misinformation, all it takes to dispell these myths and lies is a quarter ounce of common sense

Here is where I mention the word "musclehead" and say that in some cases stereotypes exist for a reason.

But you are right, I know of no other activity or interest with so much bullshit. You want to learn about photography and get a basic understanding, go to the newsstand buy some mags and visit a few internet forums/sites and you'll get a decent foundation within a couple weeks. Want to learn about resistance training - doing that same thing you likely get stupider than you were before from reading musclemags and forum bullshit.

I kid you not, there was a post on BB.com yesterday about working the "inner-lower pecs" and the first 15 posters all suggested various different isolation exercises to target the area. How bad is that.

 

[gymtime]

Before I get into it, the reason a movement is called a compound/multi-joint movement is because it involves many muscles doing the work.....it is a big bang for your buck so to speak.

While you'll NEVER isolate with compound lifts, your question is a good one....for example, close-grip benching uses more triceps.....front squats use more quads.....ultra-wide benching uses more shoulders.....however you'll never isolate with a compound lift. You'll never perform a bench press in any way, shape, or form that does not recruit the shoulders, triceps, and lats.

Agreed. However, getting back to the legs up thing, I do believe that it is a simple matter of good form over bad. Of course good form is debatable depending on your goals, but I've always been under the impression, as a bodybuilder who really doesn't give a rip anymore about getting stronger, that arching your back on a flat bench press is bad. It's best to keep your back as flat on the bench as possible. This in turn helps to "emphasize" the chest and de-emphasize other supporting muscle groups. Is this wrong?

Now I'm not saying that legs in the air (and I have no idea why anyone would do that. When I do this, which is very rare, i put my feet up on the end of the bench so I do retain at least some stability) necessarily constitutes good form. However, I have found that when I put my feet up on the bench like that, my back "feels" more straight, and therefore it "feels" as if my chest is doing more of the work, moreso than if my back was arched.

OK I probably didn't explain that real well. Does that make any sense?

 

[Guinness5.0]

I guess isolate is a bad word , but I think the word target is a better word.
I think you can infact target certain muscles in a bench by adjusting the grip, dropping the bar lower or higher on chest , etc

Agreed. My point is that the words used need to be used properly. It's very easy to misunderstand things when one word has multiple meanings of varying accuracy.

And yes grip width etc. can shift emphasis to different parts, as BiggT mentioned above. But as he adequately stated, close-grips may emphasize the tris more, but they CERTAINLY don't isolate them.

A semantic point but important enough IMO to make the distinction so we're all on the same page.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Agreed. However, getting back to the legs up thing....

My take:

The extra weight you can use w/ your back arched and your feet on the ground to use leg drive will more than make up for the slight increase in pec emphasis that lifting the feet up and not using the arch allow for.

In other words, the diiference in load more than compensates for the difference in emphasis/'targeting'.

 

[gjohnson5]

i usually keep my feet planted on the ground speacially when going heavy but every once in awhile with lighter weight i will put em up jus cuz i want to see how much balance and controll i have

Benching with feet up is practiced in the gym all the time. I used to do it with an open grip jsut to learn balance. Stand inside a boat on a lake or ocean with some chop and you'll get better balance.

Now I can bench as heavy as I want max out with open grip and the weights don't fall out of my hand or one arm higher then the other or any of that other junk that jsut gets people hurt.

It may be seen as a bad habit but I believe it's helped me.

 

[Madcow2]

Agreed. However, getting back to the legs up thing, I do believe that it is a simple matter of good form over bad. Of course good form is debatable depending on your goals, but I've always been under the impression, as a bodybuilder who really doesn't give a rip anymore about getting stronger, that arching your back on a flat bench press is bad. It's best to keep your back as flat on the bench as possible. This in turn helps to "emphasize" the chest and de-emphasize other supporting muscle groups. Is this wrong?

Now I'm not saying that legs in the air (and I have no idea why anyone would do that. When I do this, which is very rare, i put my feet up on the end of the bench so I do retain at least some stability) necessarily constitutes good form. However, I have found that when I put my feet up on the bench like that, my back "feels" more straight, and therefore it "feels" as if my chest is doing more of the work, moreso than if my back was arched.

OK I probably didn't explain that real well. Does that make any sense?

It's a valid point but it depends on what the bodybuilder is trying to accomplish at a point in time. Hypertrophy is an adaptation to deal with increased demands on the muscular system - this is in the form of strength or workload (so not absolute strength but demonstrated over a period) so it's important not to separate hypertrophy from strength and think they are completely different activities. Same ballpark, one is trying to hit home runs and the other is happy with doubles and looking good rounding the bases (both have to be gain proficiency at hitting the ball or they strike out and sit in the dugout).

Now, if a bodybuilder is trying to add muscle to his frame and get bigger, then no, the additional load to the system and overall musculature will result in much better stimulus and gains (i.e. less building for the bodybuilder). If his primary goal is to rebalance, refine or better present what he has already built while maintaining overall musculature this might make sense (to not arch or drive on flat bench). That said, rather than hobbling the flat bench it might be a lot more advantageous to select a different exercise and perform it properly - incline comes to mind.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Benching with feet up is practiced in the gym all the time.

So are lots of bad ideas. This doesn't make it a good idea at all.

I honestly think that I see more bad things done in the gym than good, and not by a close margin either.

 

[markshark]

I would love to know where all this nonsense starts.....crap like benching with the feet on the bench helps isolate the chest; not doing a full range of motion keeps constant tension and is 'safer'; full squats hurt the knees; rolling the shoulders when you shrug 'hits the traps from behind'; deadlifts are dangerous; isolation movements 'cut' you up......I have never seen an activity quite like weightlifting that is littered with so much bullshit and ridiculous misinformation, all it takes to dispell these myths and lies is a quarter ounce of common sense, people who subscribe to this bullshit should think about it for a second, none of it makes an ounce of sense. The only 2 reasons on Earth this crap would work is if you're previously sedintary and the 'something is better than nothing' principle is working, or if you dump enough drugs in your body that masturbation provided enough stimulus for forearm growth.

I am being serious, you don't need a certification or a degree or anything but an ounce of common sense....think about what the bench press does and what it involves and how there is no way possible to make the movement a 'chest only exercise', then think about benching with the feet on the floor with correct form and think about putting the feet on the bench.......can everyone see how assinine of a concept raising the feet is?? It makes no sense to do so.

Next, look at the regular recreational lifter. When drug free or even using reasonable amounts of gear, guys doing iso crap are always smaller and have less muscle than the guys squatting, pulling, and pressing. Guys who do every type of flye ever conceived have smaller chests than guys who can flat out outbench them over any rep range......guys supersetting leg presses with leg extensions and then doing machine hack squats over a partial range of motion to 'keep tension' on the muscle will always have smaller legs than the guy who out squats them over any rep range.....guys whose trap workout consists of dumbell shrugs rolling the shoulders back and behind the back smith machine shrugs supersetted with seated cambered bar shrugs will always have smaller traps than the guy who can use more weight on jump shrugs over any rep range. Muscles respond to workload, they do not have a brain and do not understand any of the bullshit concepts Joe Weider et all espouse.....muscles recognize work, thats is.

the most tired and sore i ever get is when doing basic compound movements til im light headed and ready to puke. ive puked doing squats before (barbell hacks actually) but never much but a bead of sweat from one-legged extensions for 4 sets

 

[gymtime]

My take:

The extra weight you can use w/ your back arched and your feet on the ground to use leg drive will more than make up for the slight increase in pec emphasis that lifting the feet up and not using the arch allow for.

In other words, the diiference in load more than compensates for the difference in emphasis/'targeting'.

OK that makes sense. But I think there has to be at least some control there. In other words, there has to be a point where you say, "yeah, you're arching your back too much."

 

[markshark]

OK that makes sense. But I think there has to be at least some control there. In other words, there has to be a point where you say, "yeah, you're arching your back too much."

when using heavier weights i was taught to keep my feet back as far as possible and planted flat, back arched with chest sticking out and ass flat to be most effective in repping with higher weights.