Behavior Drugs are a shortcut to parenting

[Turd Ferguson]

Heavens knows G-baby is at the stage where he is a terror about 1\3 of the time. He tests my will over and over again. I usually only correct on things that can hurt him or that he can hurt that are very expensive. His latest "trick" is to try and squeeze under the baby gate to get down the stairs. I correct him and he throws a 4-5 second fit, waits untill my back is turned and is right back at it again.

I don't get useing drugs in kids to correct hyper-activity and other types of behavioral issues.

check this out:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...=/ap/20040517/ap_on_he_me/kids_behavior_drugs

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Eric Harris and Kip Kinkel are just a few results of kids that have experienced this sort of medication.

Bottom line: public schools are bad.

Anyone who can afford private schools, sends their kids there.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Eric Harris and Kip Kinkel are just a few results of kids that have experienced this sort of medication.

Bottom line: public schools are bad.

Anyone who can afford private schools, sends their kids there.

I think you mean Eric Harris and Dylan Clebald or some spelling. Perhaps you miss my point. It's not a teachers job to correct your kid. They are there to provide information. If your kid isn't doing good in school it's not a teachers fault and putting them on drugs at 6 years old isn't teaching them a damn thing either.

It is a parents responsiblity to make sure the kids take school seriously. Speaking as a product of the public school system I do remember seeing kids in highschool who didn't care. But to say that is indicitive of the type of students that attend is a sweeping generalization.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I think you mean Eric Harris and Dylan Clebald or some spelling. Perhaps you miss my point. It's not a teachers job to correct your kid. They are there to provide information. If your kid isn't doing good in school it's not a teachers fault and putting them on drugs at 6 years old isn't teaching them a damn thing either.

It is a parents responsiblity to make sure the kids take school seriously. Speaking as a product of the public school system I do remember seeing kids in highschool who didn't care. But to say that is indicitive of the type of students that attend is a sweeping generalization.

No, I mean Kip Kinkel, the kid in Oregon who killed his parents and a bunch of classamtes.

Public schools are gigantic daycare centers. I am sorry you had to attend. I also did for 8 years. All those tax dollars for shitty results.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

No, I mean Kip Kinkel, the kid in Oregon who killed his parents and a bunch of classamtes.

Public schools are gigantic daycare centers. I am sorry you had to attend. I also did for 8 years. All those tax dollars for shitty results.

My mistake, I know who your talking about now. Your school must have sucked. Look at it this way. Every kid has to go to school. Education is a right. And out of the millions that attend public school you get a couple hundred maybe a few thousand each year that are problem kids. Then maybe one Kip Kinkle every few years. I still fail to see how that is a teachers fault, or a instutition like school as a problem.

 

[velvett]

Public school may be bad but they are not to blame for poor parenting - not teaching perhaps and letting children slip through the cracks so quickly that they're in high schoool and can't read.

And before you say anything - Private school pre-k -12th.

 

[velvett]

I don't get useing drugs in kids to correct hyper-activity and other types of behavioral issues.

check this out:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...=/ap/20040517/ap_on_he_me/kids_behavior_drugs

Yes, it's completely insane.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

My mistake, I know who your talking about now. Your school must have sucked. Look at it this way. Every kid has to go to school. Education is a right. And out of the millions that attend public school you get a couple hundred maybe a few thousand each year that are problem kids. Then maybe one Kip Kinkle every few years. I still fail to see how that is a teachers fault, or a instutition like school as a problem.

For what it is worth I grew up on Long Island, statistically the richest two counties in the US for decades.....until the dot-com stuff allowed parts of CA to pass it. Public schools basically correspond the the price of homes, so the public schools on LI are probably the best in the country.

They also have the highest paid teachers in the country, 25% of public school teachers earn over $100K per year. Gotta love property taxes.
Anyway for that reason, LI draws the best teachers in the nation...PhD's in the classroom.

I am pretty confident in the schools there. But my parents were not, and for HS I attended a private day school for a while and then off to an elite boarding school in New Hampshire.


As to your other points

Education is not a right. When something is a 'right', you also have the choice NOT to exercise it. For example I have the right to own a gun, but I don't HAVE to. I have the right to proceed to court to settle a civil dispute, but I don't HAVE to. Education is compulsory; there is a difference.

The rest of the thread centers on two points. My original point was that the drugs are to blame for thewell known school shooters...public school had little to do with that point.

If you want to take this in the direction of discussing the virtues of public education, that's a different point. My contention in that area is that public schools are a taxpayer funded ineffective daycare. As evidence of this, consider that almost no one who can afford to send their kids to private school will do so.

 

[beastboy]

95% of private schools are trash too.

 

[theoak01]

I think some kids have serious issues where these drugs are needed,but doctors hand this shit out like candy to any parent with a concern, the docs wanted to put me on it as a child,teachers even suggested it,my mom told them no fucking way and I changed schools

and I made it just fine without them

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

95% of private schools are trash too.

word

but you have the choice to leave it.

I think education should be optional.

 

[jerkbox]

Public school may be bad but they are not to blame for poor parenting - not teaching perhaps and letting children slip through the cracks so quickly that they're in high schoool and can't read.

And before you say anything - Private school pre-k -12th.

you are a very smart lady


these days.....nothing is the parent's fault.....it's the schools, the government, the advertising, the video games, the fast food......


DRUGS ARE THE ANSWER!!!

 

[beastboy]

word

but you have the choice to leave it.

I think education should be optional.

It already is. There are not many 'teachers' out there that teach the truth. If you want to be educated, you have to look to your self.

 

[velvett]

95% of private schools are trash too.

DING DING!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

For what it is worth I grew up on Long Island, statistically the richest two counties in the US for decades.....until the dot-com stuff allowed parts of CA to pass it. Public schools basically correspond the the price of homes, so the public schools on LI are probably the best in the country.

They also have the highest paid teachers in the country, 25% of public school teachers earn over $100K per year. Gotta love property taxes.
Anyway for that reason, LI draws the best teachers in the nation...PhD's in the classroom.

I am pretty confident in the schools there. But my parents were not, and for HS I attended a private day school for a while and then off to an elite boarding school in New Hampshire.


As to your other points

Education is not a right. When something is a 'right', you also have the choice NOT to exercise it. For example I have the right to own a gun, but I don't HAVE to. I have the right to proceed to court to settle a civil dispute, but I don't HAVE to. Education is compulsory; there is a difference.

The rest of the thread centers on two points. My original point was that the drugs are to blame for thewell known school shooters...public school had little to do with that point.

If you want to take this in the direction of discussing the virtues of public education, that's a different point. My contention in that area is that public schools are a taxpayer funded ineffective daycare. As evidence of this, consider that almost no one who can afford to send their kids to private school will do so.

Man dude you got some weird assertions. Mostly based on your personal experence. Here in STL teachers starting off in a school district are offered more in the City ( read Poorer ) schools than say a county school district. Your point about rich areas haveing better schools is true.

I'm not going to speculate on why the few bad apples decided to shoot up the school. But I will ask you to prove your insinuation that because a public school system turns out some bad kids, that the whole system isn't working?

 

[Becoming]

Man dude you got some weird assertions. Mostly based on your personal experence. Here in STL teachers starting off in a school district are offered more in the City ( read Poorer ) schools than say a county school district. Your point about rich areas haveing better schools is true.

I'm not going to speculate on why the few bad apples decided to shoot up the school. But I will ask you to prove your insinuation that because a public school system turns out some bad kids, that the whole system isn't working?

How much of that is because of the de-seg programs? Do they still run the buses?

FYI I went to a pretty good public school in StL, with pretty good teachers, but I think a lot of students create their own woes...

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Man dude you got some weird assertions. Mostly based on your personal experence. Here in STL teachers starting off in a school district are offered more in the City ( read Poorer ) schools than say a county school district. Your point about rich areas haveing better schools is true.

I'm not going to speculate on why the few bad apples decided to shoot up the school. But I will ask you to prove your insinuation that because a public school system turns out some bad kids, that the whole system isn't working?

I don't think Kinkel, Harris, Klebold etc are indicative that the public school system is failing. I cited them merely to demonstrate the possible (though rare) outcome of medication.

My issues with the public school system don't involve shootings, but involve poor performance, unions, and governmnet bureaucracy.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Seriously though, ADHD is very overdiagnosed. If you have ever been around a child that REALLY has it you would understand the difference. We go through phases like this, where various psychological disorders are overdiagnosed for a few years due to media attention and their populatarity, but then thing slow down a bit and return to normal. Alot of psychologist are concerned with this current trend (I took 9 hours of psych last semester since I'm picking it up as my second major).

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Seriously though, ADHD is very overdiagnosed. If you have ever been around a child that REALLY has it you would understand the difference. We go through phases like this, where various psychological disorders are overdiagnosed for a few years due to media attention and their populatarity, but then thing slow down a bit and return to normal. Alot of psychologist are concerned with this current trend (I took 9 hours of psych last semester since I'm picking it up as my second major).

I recall a routine from a black man who said that ADD/ADHD were white man diseases. That black and mexican kids don't have that. "It's not ADD it's BAD and we give ass whoopings for that..." I wish I could remember his name that routine had me in tears laughing.

 

[Becoming]

My issues with the public school system don't involve shootings, but involve poor performance, unions, and governmnet bureaucracy.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact there is little or no accountability...

Arizona is a great example... they try to have standardized testing to see how students are progressing... but every time the students do horribly... and they come up with reasons to re-write the test and claim it MUST be invalid....

On the university level - there are lots of tenured professors that see it as a status which allows them to sit around and do nothing all day, or to produce inferior work....

These things are symptoms of the way the system is set up...

 

[Deleted member 33117]

sss, most kids who are diagnosed wtih ADHD are just bad kids. A true ADHD child CANNOT sit still nor can you keep them in a desk for 5 minutes even if they KNOW they are going to get spanked, and know they will get in trouble. These are the children who manage to reach the ceiling fan to hang from it and get on top of the refrigorator when they are only 5. They lack the ability to stay calm and must move constantly without drugs. This is 24/7. not just acting up 1/3 or 1/4 of the time.

 

[theoak01]

I hear that BBF I use to babysit a kid with that,loony as all fuck,got into everything,ritalin didnt do shit

 

[jh1]

I think we should control Turd Ferguson's behavior with a little Special-K adminisistered hourly.

Serioulsy - does the drugs to control behavior opinions you hold also apply to adults with disorders? Where do you draw the line?

 

[tiger88]

i heard halo can give u some serious rage

i bet not many doc give out RX for that

 

[Nubly]

i've always said that meds isnt the answer- parenting skills is

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I think we should control Turd Ferguson's behavior with a little Special-K adminisistered hourly.

Serioulsy - does the drugs to control behavior opinions you hold also apply to adults with disorders? Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at about age 12.

 

[from zero]

It's just another way for parents to be lazy and take the easy way out.

Everyone wants a family. No one wants to do the fucking work involved.

God I hate everyone.

 

[Werd]

...and EVERYBODY hung me out to dry for wanting to raise my children in a country that IS NOT America.

One of my children *might* have a learning disabillity. Guess whose responsibility it will be for that particular child to have all the tools that he/needs to succeed in life?






MINE


I grew up the child of poor immigrants so I can not speak to the public/private educational debate intelligently nor do I see myself able to offer any of my children such an option anytime soon.






....and ya'll wonder why I wanted to raise my children in a particular country... one that has one of THE BEST FREE educational systems offered IN THE WORLD.




Drugs instead of parenting. Shit, I guess that Barney just didn't do the trick.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Ok, you guys are missing the point here. Its psychologist who are overdiagnosing ADHD. In the case were the children do not have it, parenting can be a fix. IN the 20-30% of those diagnosed who actaully have the disorder parenting it not going to fix the problem. Lets say there were a group of 7 year old children sitting in a classroom, and someone walked in an said any of you who move, I;m giong to shoot in the head, and he walks over and shoots the first one the moves in the head, in front of everyone. NOw, all of the children would be terried of this extreme punishment. If the guys says, all of you sit down and stop moving or your next. Regular children would sit down.

The ADHD child, while knowing the consiquinces, does not want to move. He wants to sit in that desk do to fear of death, however he physically is not capable of sitting in that desk for any length of time if he is unmedicated. Eventually he will start flopping around, or climb up on top of the desk, or start running around the room know full well the horrible punishment he will recieve. Granted, this is an extreme example, and isn't going to happen, but in this type of scenario, a child truely suffering from ADHD will react like this. How do you solve this with good parenting? Do you think spanking this child will stop it? It won't. Will the child fear teh punishment? Yes. Not only that, but the child does not want to get into trouble, however, its not under the child's complete control, so beating this child 20 times a day, will do nothing to stop the behavior.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Ok, we aren't letting thsi thread drop that fast are we?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Ok, you guys are missing the point here. Its psychologist who are overdiagnosing ADHD. In the case were the children do not have it, parenting can be a fix. IN the 20-30% of those diagnosed who actaully have the disorder parenting it not going to fix the problem. Lets say there were a group of 7 year old children sitting in a classroom, and someone walked in an said any of you who move, I;m giong to shoot in the head, and he walks over and shoots the first one the moves in the head, in front of everyone. NOw, all of the children would be terried of this extreme punishment. If the guys says, all of you sit down and stop moving or your next. Regular children would sit down.

The ADHD child, while knowing the consiquinces, does not want to move. He wants to sit in that desk do to fear of death, however he physically is not capable of sitting in that desk for any length of time if he is unmedicated. Eventually he will start flopping around, or climb up on top of the desk, or start running around the room know full well the horrible punishment he will recieve. Granted, this is an extreme example, and isn't going to happen, but in this type of scenario, a child truely suffering from ADHD will react like this. How do you solve this with good parenting? Do you think spanking this child will stop it? It won't. Will the child fear teh punishment? Yes. Not only that, but the child does not want to get into trouble, however, its not under the child's complete control, so beating this child 20 times a day, will do nothing to stop the behavior.

You should check out a book called "The Fundamentals of Extremism" I just finished a chapter in there where they were talking about ADHD and how certain right wing religious organizations were intentionally keeping proper treatment from them.

 

[Werd]

I don't have a degree nor have I researched the condition. It just seems awfully odd that this whole medicating the booming epidemic of ADHD kids only happens in THE US!

Why isn't this "epidemic" present in the rest of the world? Is there something in the air or water in US?

Please enlighten me.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Werd, it isn't wierd, we know it is being overdiagnosed. True cases are as I described. If that isn't your child, then it isn't what is going on. It is a real disorder, its just diagnosed at 3 times the rate of tis actual occurance.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Werd, it isn't wierd, we know it is being overdiagnosed. True cases are as I described. If that isn't your child, then it isn't what is going on. It is a real disorder, its just diagnosed at 3 times the rate of tis actual occurance.

That is my point. Not every kid who is prescribed drugs for it really HAS it. And the partent just go along with it.

Doing all the things you described in your above post isn't all that bad, more just annoying. But I don't have an ADHD kid so I really can't comment.