Beginning weight training

[Adamnp]

I have a job that doesn't require any physical labor. I basically sit at a desk all day and I go home and do the same. I have always been slim, but over the last couple of years I started to notice a big weight gain. I'm 23 about 6'0" and weight 180. And want to do something about it! I live in a small town far away from any gym, so I want to purchase some equipment. Mainly a treadmill and maybe some free weights. I need a treadmill because I live in a cold climate. Right now outside its -18F! The only treadmill dealer remotely close to where I live only deals with NordicTrack. I really wanted a Pacemaster, but I cant find any place online to order one. I read the NordicTrack uses cheap parts and therefore have a lot of problems. Can anyone share any thoughts on NordicTrack? I'm currently thinking of buying the 5600R. Here is a link: http://tinyurl.com/7yn6w

I don't really have room where I live for a big gym system like the Bowflex. Can you recommend any free weight products? If I were to just buy some dumbbells, can I effectively train my chest and arm muscles? Any exercises you can recommend?

I don't normally have time in the morning to eat breakfast. Will this inhibit muscle growth? I also read on these forums that it would be a good idea to consume a protein shake after a good workout. Any recommendations on a good protein shake?

I'm sorry if this seems a little overwhelming. I'm excited to get going.

Thanks!
--Adam

 

[big4life]

I've never used a nordictrack treadmill, so I can't give you an opinion on it, but if you check around you can probably find a used one for a lot cheaper than new.

As for weights, do you have room for a power rack? or maybe a bench with a built in rack?

Check out this site for some ideas.

http://www.newyorkbarbells.tv/index.html

You should really try to eat breakfast. It will help you in more ways than just lifting, even just a bowl of oatmeal, and you will notice a difference.

For protein shakes, there are tons of them out there. I use ultramet for my shakes, but it's really up to what you like. You can check out the supplement board for a lot more information.

Welcome to Elite!!

 

[Adamnp]

I don't have the ceiling for a power rack. Any benches that you would recommend?

 

[Madcow2]

Since you don't have the height for a full rack. Look for a bench that has uprights that allow you to take the bar off and squat. In addition, the bench should be built to accomodate a full size olympic bar (standard stuff you see in gyms). It is kind of essential that you are able to squat - very fundemental movement. If the bench doesn't allow for it you can buy stands separately.

REAL QUICK SEARCHES - NOT ENDORSING ANY OF THIS ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT BE GOOD OR BAD - JUST BASIC REFERENCE AND IT LOOKS FAIRLY USABLE FOR YOUR PURPOSE.

Here's a sample of a bench. Keep in mind that whole leg curl/extension thing is basically unusable. They are pure trash. I don't much care for them on nice equipment at the gym but you might as well throw the attachment in the garage and not look back. The bench allows for squating and is able to accomodate an olympic bar.
http://www.ironcompany.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9

Sample of squat stands
http://www.powerhouse-fitness.co.uk...id=10&sku=E069WH&department=10&manu_name=York

 

[Adamnp]

Thanks for your help!

That looks like a nice bench. I should mention that most of the time I will be alone. Is it a big deal not to have someone to spot you?

Could you elaborate as to why you don't like the leg curl/extension part? What could I subsitute it with?

 

[Madcow2]

First - the mechanics of the leg curl/extension on these benches blow. Try to use them. Maybe you have a more favorable build but I've never met anyone who get these to work reasonably well. Squats will give you complete leg development and a whole lot more. When you get board, learn to front squat or zercher.

Squats - I could write a book and people have. Suffice to say, isolating a muscle is good for rehab but not good for general development. The body grows as a system. Applying weight to the system through a fundemental range of motion that involves the maximum amount of musculature and allows for the largest load on the body is key. You work to put 50lbs on your squat and your whole body benefits. Exercises in this class are the squat (and variations), deadlift, benchpress, bentover row, military press, pullups/chins, the olympic lifts and variants etc...With the exception of the olympic lifts you need to learn to perform the others (save the clean and snatch for next year). That way you make a lot of progress quickly (don't worry about getting too big - it won't happen but you will grow as fast as you are able).

The bench is adequate and reasonably priced. Check Ebay also and maybe you can find one local to save on shipping. Buy the weights and bar local. I think Sears has 300lbs olympic sets for $99 or something. Shipping is horendous on weight and you don't need special equipment.

As for a spotter - train light for now and work within your limits. Training to failure on a consistent basis is widely accepted (outside of BBing and their voodoo science) as a great way not to grow.

Here's a good link covering a lot of topics - very much worth your time.
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=12

Sticky posts here are very solid (this is where the above came from):
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3

Read that stuff, settle on a bench and create a new post and we'll figure a workout for you. You don't need to concern yourself with dual factor theory right now. You'll get plenty of benefits just doing the exercises in pyramid fashion without loading/deloading and that stuff for now. It will be essential later but for raw beginners, they do nicely on 3 whole body workouts a week with varying degree of intensity.

 

[big4life]

Thanks for your help!

That looks like a nice bench.

Could you elaborate as to why you don't like the leg curl/extension part? What could I subsitute it with? And why are squats so important?

My experience with those leg curl/extension parts on benches has been that they are just not designed well enough to work properly. Plus you can hit your hamstrings better with stiff leg deadlifts, than curls.

The reason why squats are so important is they are one of the best ways to build your core strength, along with deadlifts, and bench.

 

[Adamnp]

A big thanks to madcow2 and big4life! Thanks for taking the time to answer my newbie questions. I'm truely an idiot when it comes to strength training. I've been using this website to try and figure-out what the exercises are that your talking about. http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

I also found this website which gives a template workout for a beginner. What do you think?

http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=850

Thanks!
--Adam

 

[Madcow2]

Don't follow that workout. That's exactly what I'm trying to save you from even though that site in general has a ton of good training info (just not in the BBing section which is extremely weak there, they just had a drive for more BBing members because it's largely power, olympic, and track&field). The owner is a big Mel Siff fan (a man that was an encyclopedia of training knowledge) and if he saw that garbage on his site, he'd likely shut it down.

Use the Bill Starr Routine posted on this page:http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/manrodt4.htm

Substitute Bentover Rows for Powercleans and Deadlifts for High Pulls. Pyramid the weights each time. As a novice you will die if you warm up and use a constant set weight. This is a good thread where we gave advice to another novice here:http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363761

Give the other links I gave you a read too. If you actually want to read and research I have a post in this thread toward the middle that lists and links a ton of sources. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364685

Let me put it this way, there is a ton of crap information out there that will limit your progress as a beginner and absolutely kill it as an intermediate. Think of it as a mud puddle. I'm trying to steer your around it so you don't get all shitted up because most of the stuff you will find is crap unless you know where to look. The amount of bad information surrounding BBing and gyms is staggering. Here's something else for you to read which converts the basic program to a more advanced one - it includes a great deal on training theory and other pertinent stuff also. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371821

Take some time to digest and read all the links I've given you. If someone had given me info like this when I first started training it would have saved me the better part of a decade.

 

[Adamnp]

Wow, thanks for caring so much! I really appreciate the good advice.

I will read the posts you linked to. I don't understand some of the exercises though. Like what’s a powerclean or a high pull? Could you use the Bill Starr Power Routine and link the exercises to the exrx site?

For example:

Bench - http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/BBCloseGripBenchPress.html

By the way, I just purchased a treadmill. I decided to get a Nordictrack. My step father has had one for over a year now and its worked great for him. I feel I need to burn some of this fat off before I start to weight train. I'm a pretty skinny guy, but I have developed quite a gut over the years.

In regards to one of my earlier questions about breakfast. The reason for not eating breakfast is because I have such a hard time getting up in the morning and I don't have the time. I usually give myself seven hours of sleep too! I was wondering if it’s true that people who routinely exercise have no trouble getting up. I would love to be able to jump out of bed in the morning! I have already cut out all the pop and sugar from my diet and I take vitamins. That helped a little, but I still feel exhausted most of the time.

Thanks!
--Adam

 

[Madcow2]

1) Weight training is by far your best bang for the buck in fat loss (in addition to diet). Holding diet constant an ounce of added muscle consumes the calories required to maintain several times it's weight in fat. And it does this just by sitting there. In addition a single bout of weight training can stimulate the metabolism for a period of days unlike cardio where stimulation is measured in hours.

Don't get me wrong, cardio is healthy and good to do but it is highly overrated for fat burning. Getting leaner is primarily consuming less calories than you require but since you are adding weight training (activity that burns calories) and will be adding muscle (consumes calories just sitting there) your requirements will be going up anyway so holding your current diet constant that will take care of a substantial amount of fat over time. Plus, do a set of squats or deadlifts and tell me you aren't breathing hard and your heart isn't flying.

2) For fat loss purposes, cardio is best done first thing in the morning before eating it is substantially more efficient this way (given your lack of getting going in the morning this is a stretch though). You can also increase efficiency by adding a stimulant like caffein 20 minutes before cardio. The best cardio for fat loss in my opinion is sprinting in intervals. Look at a sprinter and look at a marathon runner - ripped vs. emaciated and holding like a bear onto whatever fat the body can get. Basically you do a sprinting program a few times a week, a series of 30, 40, 50, 80, 100 yard dashes while walking/jogging back to the line between. Something like this can be done on a treadmill or stationary bike also. Run flat out hard for a period and then back it down to rest, repeating.

3) Breakfast is fuckin' key. The reason you aren't hungry in the morning is that your metabolism slows down drastically after an overnight fast (you don't eat at night). So what happens is that you go through most of the day and then feed yourself and the body clings to it like a bastard and tries to turn it to fat. You need to get your metabolism going first thing. If you don't have time, blend a shake the night before and carry it out the door on the way to work (use Metrx or whatever meal replacement). The best way to feed the body is to space meals frequently. The same total calories spread with higher frequency will keep the metabolism higher and result in a leaner you (this is why people who eat only 1 meal a day and can't lose weight are fat). In addition, with weighttraining recovery is happening around the clock, it's a good thing to provide a constant flow of nutrients, calories, and protein to the body.

4) I already covered the substitutions to make to the program in a previous post above right here in this thread. "Substitute Bentover Rows for Powercleans and Deadlifts for High Pulls. Pyramid the weights each time. As a novice you will die if you warm up and use a constant set weight." Powercleans and highpulls are variants of the olympic lifts. They are great but very technique heavy and you aren't in condition to begin a program with them - plus, they take a while to learn. That's why I said save them for a year from now if you want. Some people never learn them but they can be tremendously effective and very useful. Plus translation to sport performance is unsurpassed.

You really need to start at the begginning and read through those links I posted. Get yourself a bench/squat setup (deadlifts are done from the floor anyway). Buy an olympic bar and some weight.

The site you are looking at for exercises is good except that you have to know the area they hit. The sticky for methods and exercise descriptions in this forum has links to the benchpress, deadlift, squat. Read the stickies in the powerlifting forum here which also cover the 3 lifts. This stickies at http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3 are also very good although some may be beyond you. A general google search will get you just about anything.

 

[Madcow2]

This might make it easier - also make sure you read the article as to how to implement this as well as the longer articles on proper performance of these lifts. It makes a huge difference. Also, it might be hard to deadlift below 135 lbs because most sets don't have full size plates below 45lbs. That's okay, if you can find something to set the bar on to get it to midshin height great (I've used the bottom pieces of reebock steps for some people before). If not, then you don't get to set it down. You want to get to 135 fast though because it's much better from the floor. If you have access to a video phone, digicam or whatever, you can get a free tripod website and just upload it or maybe you have another way to get it hosted. We can look at your technique in the lifts that way. Best angles are front, side, and particularly the 45 degree angle between:

Monday – Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Bench – 5 sets of 5
Rows– 5 sets of 5
Situps/Hypers - core work for strengthening your abdomen and lower back (you can use light goodmornings in place of hypers)

Wednesday Light Day
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Military Press – 4 sets of 5
Deadlift – 4 sets of 5
Chins - 3 sets
Sit-ups – 3 sets

Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Rows – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each

Military:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBMilitaryPress.html
Bent Row:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
Bench Press:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/BBBenchPressPowerLift.html
Deadlift (each rep starts fully deweighted on the floor - no touch and gos except on warmups):
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBDeadlift.html
Squat (try to use the full range of your body but at a minimum you need to have top of thighs parallel to the floor):
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBSquat.html
Chins (you might need a chinup bar that you can put in a door frame - these might be really hard at first so you can use your legs to assist you):
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html#anchor125439
Good Mornings (start light - no weight at first just do reps then work up to the bar and then some weight - this is in place of hypers. It's great power exercise later but this is not the purpose for a beginner so no heavy weight - keep the reps nice and high 10-20):
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBBentKneeGoodMorning.html
Tricepts:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/BBLyingTriExt.html
Bicepts:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Biceps/BBCurl.html

 

[Adamnp]

I wanted to also ask you about stretching. How important is it? Should I stretch the muscle group I'm going to be working on before I start?

4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off

What do you mean by "back-off"? Does 1 triple mean that I should do 3 repetitions for one of the 4 sets or in addition to the four sets? How long do you usually wait between sets? How many weeks should I use this workout before I change it? What could I sub chins for?

I canceled my order for that treadmill after reading your last post. I don't know what I was thinking! Thanks!

I'm going to order a bench and some weights. I wonder how much weight I should buy. Last time I tried to bench press, I couldn't lift 100lbs. How much does an olympic bar weigh? Do you recommend any accessories like a belt for squats of gloves?

I read some of your links. Most of it's greek to me. I feel confident I will learn in time. I'll keep you updated on my progress.

 

[Adamnp]

What do you think of this chin up bar?

http://www.bodytrends.com/products/gym/doorgym.htm

 

[Madcow2]

1) THE WORKOUT: http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/manrodt4.htm
below the chart (and I have provided a subsitution for several of the lifts above) there are a lot of details on how to execute the program. What is meant by "back off" is in the bullet points there. You should read all of it. You should run this or something very similar for about a year - take an unflattering picture now for comparison because you are going to look totally different. If you aren't missing workouts regularaly you could take a week off or train light for 1-2 weeks every 8-12 weeks as needed. You go as you are able. Don't be rapid firing sets but don't take an inordinate amount of unnnecessary time. If a lift is going to be heavy for you and you need some extra time, take it. I guess 1:30-2:00 per set on average but I honestly don't know and don't bother to count mine. This will help in conditioning also.

2) TREADMILL: I don't want to totally deemphasize the importance of cardio. For aesthetics weights are unparalleled but it's important for general health. I do believe interval style training is the best though (I described it above)

3) WEIGHT SETS: Olympic bars are 45 lbs - most sets come with 300lbs total. You should be able to find this locally for around $99.

4) BELT/GLOVES: Forget the belt for now. It's primarily for pushing against anyway - if you round out like a pretzel and use shitty technique there's no way a little belt is going to keep you from injuring yourself. You will build a better base stabalization and core strength without it. Gloves....only if you are a hand model or are adverse to callouses. As a rule, real men don't use them.

5) CHIN BAR: Not bad. It's pretty fancy - a basic one will get the job done but this does give you more options. Maybe I'll think about getting one myself sometime.

6) MOST IMPORTANTLY: It's not about spending money, getting all the right stuff, or trying to tweak and time your training to the nth degree - it's about getting in there and doing it. Take a couple weeks to practice and get the feel for the exercises. Borrow a video camera/tripod or have someone film you if you can. Take it very easy and go very light at first cause you will get super sore otherwise and that's fairly pointless and inhibits your training (there is no correlation between soreness (DOMS) and progress - on a well designed program, you won't be getting very sore but you'll be suseptible at first so don't hinder yourself by getting all crippled and in pain. If you do get super sore - like beyond 2 days and it's still very painful, work the muscle lightly again to facilitate the recovery process). If you do this workout, eat decently (covered above and that means in the morning too even if it's a shake on the way to work), get some reasonable rest - you will have a totally new body. This style workout never fails and you will likely find yourself eating a ton more, still dropping fat, and putting on muscle (it's awesome to be new to this).

Enjoy

 

[Adamnp]

Thanks again for the good advice. I can't wait for my order to get here so I can get started! I have been eating a bowl of oatmeal every morning so far this week. I just use the Quaker instant oatmeal stuff that comes in packets and you microwave it for few minutes. It tastes like shit, but that must mean its good for you. I force myself to get up a little earlier and it pays off throughout the day. I have more energy and I don't have to put up with the stomach pains. I also bought a 6lb tub of the Met-Rx Total Nutrition drink. I plan on drinking a glass in the morning before work and after my workout.

I also picked up a curl bar:
http://www.ironcompany.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=529

I ultimately went with the bench you used as an example. It seems link a good bench for the money. I don't see any benefit to spending more on a bench. I promise not to use the leg extension part!

I know the first couple weeks are going to be tough. And I'm sure most people quit after first couple weeks, but I promise to keep with it. This is something I've always wanted to do and I used to always say I would do it "someday". I'm not getting any younger, so now is no better time to start. Plus, I've always had low self-esteem, so this should help with that as well.

I will continue to post here and update you on my progress. I'm sure some questions will arise.