Before Needto and Orbit

[ChrisUlrich]

What did people use for preventing shutdown, test boosters, AI's, etc... I find it all very interesting how Mitch and Nate cornered the market in these forums. And please, I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I take a lot of their supplements! I spend my money and usually PM them how things are going. But it is just something I was wondering about.

 

[stevesmi]

don't know and frankly don't care what they did back in 1984.

all i know is I'm on hcgenerate right now on my tren/var cycle (no test added) and my libido keeps getting better and better. nuts are plump as can be.

milk thistle is used by a lot of guys who run oral steroids. milk thistle is a FLOWER, yes its a FLOWER. its not a drug. but 99.9% of juicers take it for their livers!!!!! hmmmmm... fish oil isn't a drug either, its a natural oil from a fish!! and bodybuilders and lots of people in general take it for their joints.. hmmmm...

i caught a fish on sunday, cleaned him up.. took him home.. stuck him in my oven.. while he was cooking the entire aluminum had oil on the bottom of it. i did NOT add that oil, it was natural oil from the fish. how silly is it that people take joint medications which cause more long term damage when all they have to do is eat the right things.

 

[dylangemelli]

LOLL seriously steve, im crackin up over here about the fish catching comment... LOVE IT BRO!! I just about fell of my chair!

don't know and frankly don't care what they did back in 1984.

all i know is I'm on hcgenerate right now on my tren/var cycle (no test added) and my libido keeps getting better and better. nuts are plump as can be.

milk thistle is used by a lot of guys who run oral steroids. milk thistle is a FLOWER, yes its a FLOWER. its not a drug. but 99.9% of juicers take it for their livers!!!!! hmmmmm... fish oil isn't a drug either, its a natural oil from a fish!! and bodybuilders and lots of people in general take it for their joints.. hmmmm...

i caught a fish on sunday, cleaned him up.. took him home.. stuck him in my oven.. while he was cooking the entire aluminum had oil on the bottom of it. i did NOT add that oil, it was natural oil from the fish. how silly is it that people take joint medications which cause more long term damage when all they have to do is eat the right things.

 

[stevesmi]

LOLL seriously steve, im crackin up over here about the fish catching comment... LOVE IT BRO!! I just about fell of my chair!

i'm a country boy at heart. caught a bunch of trout, catfish, whiting, and pinfish. unfortunately had to throw the trout back they weren't legal size but that whiting ended up in my oven.

 

[dylangemelli]

love it bro... absolutely love it!

i'm a country boy at heart. caught a bunch of trout, catfish, whiting, and pinfish. unfortunately had to throw the trout back they weren't legal size but that whiting ended up in my oven.

 

[TheSVPdeal]

Not only is Steve a good 'ole country boy but he has plump nuts. He always talks about his plump nuts thanks to HCGenerate and I'm happy about that. Lol

 

[stevesmi]

Not only is Steve a good 'ole country boy but he has plump nuts. He always talks about his plump nuts thanks to HCGenerate and I'm happy about that. Lol

 

[-SD-]

Back on topic now, guys took HCG, Clomid, Nolva for PCT.

 

[TheSVPdeal]

Back on topic now, guys took HCG, Clomid, Nolva for PCT.

Thanks, SD. The problem with these drugs (clomid and nolva), Chris, is that they came with serious risks and potential sides. They were not designed to rejuivinate the HPTA and get the balls working again. Anything that they did in the PCT arena was a side effect in itself.

 

[stevesmi]

I don't even think they did hcg back then.

and many ran no pct. they pretty much accepted the fact that their nuts shrank and they felt like shit after cycle and did nothing about..

its much more logical to cycle on, run the proper ancillaries, run a pct.. and then cycle off... then go back on... and steadily improve. you keep most of your gains this way. i guarantee you that there are a lot of guys doing it the old way and those are the ones who quit on the gym when off cycle cause they lose motivation

 

[TheSVPdeal]

Here is a great read for ya:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...e-support-drug-steroid-user-bible-778853.html

 

[needtogetaas]

don't know and frankly don't care what they did back in 1984.

all i know is I'm on hcgenerate right now on my tren/var cycle (no test added) and my libido keeps getting better and better. nuts are plump as can be.

milk thistle is used by a lot of guys who run oral steroids. milk thistle is a FLOWER, yes its a FLOWER. its not a drug. but 99.9% of juicers take it for their livers!!!!! hmmmmm... fish oil isn't a drug either, its a natural oil from a fish!! and bodybuilders and lots of people in general take it for their joints.. hmmmm...

i caught a fish on sunday, cleaned him up.. took him home.. stuck him in my oven.. while he was cooking the entire aluminum had oil on the bottom of it. i did NOT add that oil, it was natural oil from the fish. how silly is it that people take joint medications which cause more long term damage when all they have to do is eat the right things.

We could have ended this entire thread on that note lmao!!!

No but if you want real honesty bro? Products like the ones we sell have always been around although we have perfected them more and more over the years and found new things to work with..

Like transdermal have been around a long time, peeps used to use sustain alpha and before that they used a transdermal called AIFM (Ai for men) which was a transdermal ATD . Hell way way before all this Auther L ray was here on Elite selling injectable formastan under " research" gray type shit.. The entire write up talked about taking it orally but when you got your order it came in a vile and with a IM injection needle lmao..

And how about this simple little fact before there was drugs guess what everyone used for everything under the sun? Exactly natural supplements....Now with a good balance of both we are light years ahead of where we were even 5 years ago. Supplements did not just come around when me and orbit did no. We just happen to be the ones leading the pack in it right now... We got the most advanced shit, the best products and service, we have both earned our respect and we spend our entire lives on this... in service to the people here on the forums...

 

[eddymerckx]

like everything else, bros used what was available and (I can personally attest) suffered for it. We used nolva and clomid (which are just miserable--though reproductive endos will have you try clomid if you have an issue with your swimmers--and the results are spotty at best). Then came HCG (and HMG but that was later and the ultimate last resort)--but HCG is like jump starting a dead battery--it works, very well, but is not continuing. Logically, there was a vacuum when smart bros realized that there were other ways to create an environment in your body so that it could capitalize on the "restarted battery" and continue running--b/c the condition of being shut-down is not normal so our everyday diet is not enough--it need very specific compounds to recover successfully.

And the most important thing is that restarting sucessfully and returning to your body'd natural condition is not a possible side effect of a hardcore drug (clomid/nolva) that does other things it is a planned actual result without all the other stuff.

Just think about the history of medicine for any disease--the first (modern) methods treated symptoms--then things evolved to treating the underlying cause, only to realize it was even more complex with multiple factors, so each new iteration was usually better. Then, once it was understood, we realized that there were even better ways to help in the process--create an environment so the body could do a lot of the work itself/allow the "cure" to work faster and more effectively.

The questions is then, why Mitch and Needto? Well, I ask who else? No natural health food company has PCT on their radar or even know what it is. Until a few years ago (with the "Low T" movement) the only thing they had (for the most part) was DHEA. Moreover, few people actually understand the needs of AAS users--lets face it we may be open here on the board but which pharm executive/MD/researcher will mention in a board/research meeting that "he hates PCT because clomid makes him miserable and his balls are still little shrunken grapes--so lets find a cure?" It was up to those among us with the where-with-all to find a better way.

These bros just built the better mousetrap first and b/c they did not follow the model of many "supplement" companies (make $/screw people/change the name/start over/repeat)--they developed a loyal following by customer service and solid products--the old fashioned way--keeping customers happy and they will come back. Not the one-time screw that, unfortunately, plagues the business--esp. bodybuilding supps.

Oh, an in case anyone cares, the banners below are because I believe in the companies, the people running it, and the products--I do not get free stuff--NEVER have; and do not get paid in any way/no quid pro quo. Years back, I had Needto's cookbook banner--why? b/c I lived on his power bars (still with me on every single ride)

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ good posts above me!! makes perfect sense.

i don't think the OP was being a smart ass at all after re-reading his question, but there are plenty of haters around the internets who have this idea that things like milk thistle was made in some lab by some billion dollar pharma company. hello?? its been around forever and they've been using it as a liver tonic for hundreds of years.

so unless you want to grow milk thistle in your backyard you need to buy it in supplement form and products like N2guard and forged liver support contain ample amounts of it to keep a happy and healthy liver and they are LEGIT products. i wouldn't trust buying milk thistle from walmart or gnc, the quality is dogshit.

 

[TheSVPdeal]

i don't think the OP was being a smart ass at all. . .

I agree. He's just interested in knowing.

 

[eddymerckx]

I agree. He's just interested in knowing.

that is why I went through the history-a lot of bros don't know the way things used to be--PCT sucked (which is why so many bros just cruised)--if it worked--and many gains were lost b/c no one really knew what to do and there were no tools available to help.

 

[Dial_tone]

Back in the 80's people actually went off cycle for longer than they were on, six months off after a 6-8 week cycle was not unusual for me. Nolva was $2/tab so I never used it.

 

[ceo]

Back in the 80's people actually went off cycle for longer than they were on, six months off after a 6-8 week cycle was not unusual for me. Nolva was $2/tab so I never used it.

yeah, but you're tiny, bro!

 

[eddymerckx]

LOL--I am so glad I missed the 80's--all I did was take "Animal Packs" and pee fluorescent yellow. I watched so many bro get big--then get small or got gyno that made them look like they had missile tits. Progress aint all bad.

 

[needtogetaas]

Back in the 80's people actually went off cycle for longer than they were on, six months off after a 6-8 week cycle was not unusual for me. Nolva was $2/tab so I never used it.

PFFFFT what the hell would they do something dumb like that for?

 

[ceo]

PFFFFT what the hell would they do something dumb like that for?

by the time they recovered naturally, it was time to cycle again. These days we recover quicker with some nutritional supps and we cycle more often.

Of course we generally cycle longer too, so we need things to help us recover better. But things like HCGenerate, taken during cycle helps with recovery too.

 

[ChrisUlrich]

I definitely wasn't being a smartass and was seriously just asking.

Thanks for all the information though!

Any idea what professional body builders use? That's always made me wonder!

 

[EarthRider]

um, well they don't go off

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'm going to jump in here and take a bow.

I wrote in The Bodybuilding Truth, WAY BACK in the year 2000 about what a shit drug Clomid is. I got my asshole torn apart! By whom? All the "experts." Where are those experts today?

Realizing how much clomid and nolva sucked I spent years looking for an alternative but no company wanted to touch them. ( Some I mentioned in the book). I finally put those ingredients together and only Alex from Protein Factory and Needto had the foresight to see the potential. UNLEASHED turned out to be protein factor's biggest seller (ANd needto sells it for less than the PF site). Meanwhile needto put together HCGen and together we designed N2GUARD and BRIDGE. ALl three are monster hits. WHy? Because they WORK.

I'm pretty proud of that. I had to take crap from every asswipe who called himself a guru. But in the end, I was proven right -- which is great, but even better, is that there's a better way for people to do PCT and avoid the nasty sides of clomid and nolvadex.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ can't imagine what you had to go through.. those are the same geniuses who don't know the difference between a cage free omega egg and a regular egg. or 100% grass fed beef and cold cuts.

 

[EarthRider]

oh you mean plunkey hasn't educated you yet? He claims organic is a scam and there is no difference. he thinks he knows everything, so you should go talk to him steve, hahahaha

 

[needtogetaas]

I definitely wasn't being a smartass and was seriously just asking.

Thanks for all the information though!

Any idea what professional body builders use? That's always made me wonder!

They just stay on forever bro. However when one does decide to come off they know where to come. - Need To Build Muscle Inc. Official Blog

 

[needtogetaas]

And god said let there be Needto!!

 

[misticat]

my pct is the same and always will be the same. I got my blood tested in 2002 through this process and this is a proven method.

hcg last 10 days eod
1mg anastrozole every 4 days while on
and one week after 55mg of clomid for 30 days.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ the adex can be swapped out for forma. the less drugs you are ingesting the better. i will grant you the clomid thing but you can always drop the dosage lower and run a natty test booster with it instead. also it depends on what you are running, if the AAS doesn't aromatize i don't see a reason to run an AI during.. and on the flipside if you run tren or deca then adex won't do anything to combat your prolactin/progesterone issues.

you should mold your ancillaries and pct based on what you are running instead of running a PCT blindly. you want to FEEL GOOD and keep your libido during PCT and bridge, otherwise its a failed pct. this is where natty supplements can help and trump drugs .. if you feel like shit during pct its not gonna be easy to go to the gym and watch your lifts sink

 

[misticat]

agree with you except for the supplements part...

Why would you swap out an AI with a natty test booster, If you put test in your body your estrogen levels go up (homeostasis), doesn't matter who you are or genetics. I am a firm believer that if you take test you should always take an AI.

Do any of these supplements have tests to prove the effect? Does anyone go get blood results while on these products? these supplements should then be marketed and replacing all the medical shit if its better..

sorry to be a party pooper!

 

[GradeABeef]

how silly is it that people take joint medications which cause more long term damage when all they have to do is eat the right things.

Steve. What did you mean by this? Is fish oil caps bad for you? I am taking huge doses and thought it was nothing but good.

 

[needtogetaas]

agree with you except for the supplements part...

Why would you swap out an AI with a natty test booster, If you put test in your body your estrogen levels go up (homeostasis), doesn't matter who you are or genetics. I am a firm believer that if you take test you should always take an AI.

Do any of these supplements have tests to prove the effect? Does anyone go get blood results while on these products? these supplements should then be marketed and replacing all the medical shit if its better..

sorry to be a party pooper!

Pharmaceutical companies will never market something that they can not patent and make it so no one can sell it but them. And for the record sick fucked up people are the biggest customer of Pharmaceutical companies. So guess how they want you to stay? not healthy that is for sure.

 

[needtogetaas]

agree with you except for the supplements part...

Why would you swap out an AI with a natty test booster, If you put test in your body your estrogen levels go up (homeostasis), doesn't matter who you are or genetics. I am a firm believer that if you take test you should always take an AI.

Do any of these supplements have tests to prove the effect? Does anyone go get blood results while on these products? these supplements should then be marketed and replacing all the medical shit if its better..

sorry to be a party pooper!

O shit your asking for test on forma-stanzol lmao.. Awesome man that is just awesome. Because forma-stanzol has formastan aka LetherinTM which was sold as a AI for decades before the pharma dropped the patten on it. Prob because it worked to well lmao..

Formastane info
human use of transdermal formastane
Use of 4-hydroxytestosterone to lower estrogen levels in humans - Llewellyn, William Charles

Author L. Rea Management of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Side Effects with formastane
Management of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Side Effects by Author L Rea

transdermal drug use explanation
Molecular Interventions - CLOCKSS

rate to human dosing
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/Guidances/ucm078932.pdf


There is litterally thousands of test and studies done using formastan So thank you for asking man thank you so much..


But in the end people started using clomid and nolva and hell even steroids them selves long long before any test proved a damn thing. In fact the same people you turn to now pharmacies and doctors said for years steroids did not build muscle.. HMMM guess their not so smart after all are they?

No in fact they are smart but they say what they need to say to make that money!!! SO please don't point the figure at me kid. Thanks

 

[needtogetaas]

how silly is it that people take joint medications which cause more long term damage when all they have to do is eat the right things.

Steve. What did you mean by this? Is fish oil caps bad for you? I am taking huge doses and thought it was nothing but good.

He meant what you are taking now is better bro ..