BBF project car.

[Deleted member 33117]

As some of the peeps know, I'm very much into American muscle cars, and street raceing/ strip racing in street classes. I have a 10 second firebird in high school. My next project car has been located. Its a 2001 trans am, red with t-tops.

My goal: Get over 600 hp, and 600 ft/lbs of torque...easy enough... but it must be my daily driver... so the tricky part is it
1) must be 100% street legal
2) get 20 miles per gallon, on pump gas (no racing fuel or alcohol)
3) must be able to pass an emissions test, and actually I plan on it burning cleaner than a production engine (I am a liberal you know)
4) the engine/drivetrain must go 50-100 k miles between rebuilds.
5) must use an automatic transmission.

Since it will be used for street racing for $$$, I it must also do this without visable power adders (nitrous, supercharger, turbochargers etc), must have a fairly smooth idle (a sign of less aggressive or no engine mods) and on street tires if I wish to look like an easy target.

I've crunched the numbers and will keep everyone updated. I don't give away trade secrets for free so some engine and drivetrain specs will not be posted on the net. However the plan is a 395 ci ls-1 based engine with a 4l60e automatic trans.

 

[jackangel]

don't let project near it, he'll turn it into an autobot

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

I still got my '69 camaro. nothing to special........moderate 454, posi etc. Had since high school. Not liscensed right now, plan on pulling it out this spring.

 

[Smurfy]

i thought this was a pic of you and project in the front seat of his hundai elantra

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I still got my '69 camaro. nothing to special........moderate 454, posi etc. Had since high school. Not liscensed right now, plan on pulling it out this spring.

Cool, I dig 1st gen camaros, have a friend with a yellow '68 that turns 9's with a single carbed small block (naturally asperated too).

I'm not a fan of big blocks... too heavy and hp for every $$$ spent is a bit low, but still a sweet car. What type of times do you turn?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

i thought this was a pic of you and project in the front seat of his hundai elantra

Hundai? Ewwww.... I only own/drive GM vehicles. If I had a nice import (ferrari or porche) I would sell it and buy a trans am or z28 and have a ton of money and a sweeter ride to boot.

 

[Smurfy]

yeah i drive a chevy blazer. it sucks balls. nice to see you back.i miss your posts

 

[supersizeme]

20 mpg with 600 hp? i have a hard time thinking that's even remotely possible

 

[jackangel]

20 mpg with 600 hp? i have a hard time thinking that's even remotely possible

if he can exist simultaneiously as 200-300 females online, i'm pretty sure anything's possible.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

20 mpg with 600 hp? i have a hard time thinking that's even remotely possible

Ye of little faith. Oh it can be done easily. Most of the mods will actually improve gas milage...the car gets 26 from the factory...the cam and gearing will cost me about 5-6 mpg though...

Don't assume I will be making my horsepower by running a long duration cam and hogging out the heads... there is more than one way to skin a cat. Remember, I need a smooth idle and to pass emissions... I can't do those mods.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Also keep in mind, I had a streetable (barely) small block (361 ci) that dynoed at 603 hp at the age of 17. BBF has learned a few things since then, and the LS-1 is a far superior plateform to build from. I did have a truck with a 350 that got 25 with a carberator (NO fuel injection) and without the aid of an overdrive trans (had a th-350 3 speed) that made 375 hp.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Cool, I dig 1st gen camaros, have a friend with a yellow '68 that turns 9's with a single carbed small block (naturally asperated too).

I'm not a fan of big blocks... too heavy and hp for every $$$ spent is a bit low, but still a sweet car. What type of times do you turn?

Dont know, never timed it. seriouslu doubt it would do ur 10seconds. Thats pretty fucking hairy. I dont know though its pretty fast. Blue metallic.

A few months ago my DUMB sis inlaw sold her smokeybandit replica for 2k. I am still calling her a retarded cunt! I dont know why that bitch didnt offer it to me first.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Dont know, never timed it. seriouslu doubt it would do ur 10seconds. Thats pretty fucking hairy. I dont know though its pretty fast. Blue metallic.

A few months ago my DUMB sis inlaw sold her smokeybandit replica for 2k. I am still calling her a retarded cunt! I dont know why that bitch didnt offer it to me first.

Yeah, its pretty hairy the first 20 times you do it, but honestly after that a 10 second pass looses its thrill.

Wow...she could have gotten a lot more on e-bay. What year was it?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Dont know, never timed it. seriouslu doubt it would do ur 10seconds. Thats pretty fucking hairy. I dont know though its pretty fast. Blue metallic.

http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/chris9.WMV
4th gen camaro running a 9.06 second pass. 0 to 159 mph in 9 seconds in a full bodied street car is a pretty hairy ride....

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Yeah, its pretty hairy the first 20 times you do it, but honestly after that a 10 second pass looses its thrill.

Wow...she could have gotten a lot more on e-bay. What year was it?

I dont know year............but it was the same shit..........black with gold bird. ran good, overall good shape. It was her x's--who died and she just wanted to get rid of it she claimed--reasoning for not letting me have it i suppose.

Another fucking sore spot---there was a '69 firebird sitting next to this house out here for freaking decades. I stopped by this spring and inquired about buying it "no, we just sold it last week and he'll be here anyday to pick it up". For $2500.00! Black, good interior, 400 running, i am going to burn her house down!

We took my friends slowmaro(lol) out this spring--its total strip. 350 on race fuel. carb fuselage is about 1" diameter--it fucking screamed. narrowed rear end ford9, etc. As soon as we parked it in the garage from our run the highway patrol came screaming by. No doubt they heard us!

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Hundai? Ewwww.... I only own/drive GM vehicles. If I had a nice import (ferrari or porche) I would sell it and buy a trans am or z28 and have a ton of money and a sweeter ride to boot.

exactly!

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I dont know year............but it was the same shit..........black with gold bird. ran good, overall good shape. It was her x's--who died and she just wanted to get rid of it she claimed--reasoning for not letting me have it i suppose.

Another fucking sore spot---there was a '69 firebird sitting next to this house out here for freaking decades. I stopped by this spring and inquired about buying it "no, we just sold it last week and he'll be here anyday to pick it up". For $2500.00! Black, good interior, 400 running, i am going to burn her house down!

We took my friends slowmaro(lol) out this spring--its total strip. 350 on race fuel. carb fuselage is about 1" diameter--it fucking screamed. narrowed rear end ford9, etc. As soon as we parked it in the garage from our run the highway patrol came screaming by. No doubt they heard us!

Cool... he put a ford 9" in...honestly its the only way to go... I love GM, but they can't seem to build a rearend the will hold up. Putting a moser ford 9" in mine this time around also. I blew 3 ten bolt chevy rearends apart in my firebird before giving up on using them.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

honestly--im not into bldg. cars--not that good. I buy my shit ready to roll. I had some pretty awesome race gokarts at one time also.. some think there toys--i have news for them. I had a vintage kart with twin alky mac101 open class engines that would scare the shit out of most people and louder thana 350 with open headers. My brother watched me ride it and said no fucking way im getting on that thing!

 

[wtlftr]

BBF..admit it..you have a hopped up GREMLIN

 

[Deleted member 33117]

BBF..admit it..you have a hopped up GREMLIN

Actually at present I drive a Chevy Lumina with a shitty v6 (the first v6 I've ever owned.... its pretty sad when you mash the peddle to the floor). I'll start on my project car in about 6 weeks.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

BBF, consider this in the car if you want high milage but a fast car. get a quick change rear end. know what i'm talking about? you can swap the rear gearing relatively fast. this way you can drop 3.08s in for commuting/driving (and it'll still be fast with 3.08s) and put 4.11s in when you want to go out fucking around.

it's something to consider putting in and will definetly help with milage. dunno how long it takes to swap the gears though. by "quick change" i'm assuming we're talking about under an hour. guy i was in the Marine Corps with ordered one, but i got out of the military before he got the rear end for his S-10 with a worked gear driven 350. i think it cost about $1800 but supposed to be tough as nails and able to handle a lot of abuse.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

BBF, consider this in the car if you want high milage but a fast car. get a quick change rear end. know what i'm talking about? you can swap the rear gearing relatively fast. this way you can drop 3.08s in for commuting/driving (and it'll still be fast with 3.08s) and put 4.11s in when you want to go out fucking around.

it's something to consider putting in and will definetly help with milage. dunno how long it takes to swap the gears though. by "quick change" i'm assuming we're talking about under an hour. guy i was in the Marine Corps with ordered one, but i got out of the military before he got the rear end for his S-10 with a worked gear driven 350. i think it cost about $1800 but supposed to be tough as nails and able to handle a lot of abuse.

I can change gears in a ford 9" in 2-3 hours. Its i a quick change rear end. The problem here is that the 3.50 rear end is my optimal gear for my car with this combination in the 1/4th mile. I need to be able to hit at least 130 mph near peak horsepower in 3rd gear (around 6500 rpm) with the converter slipping (running an auto remember????). Anything deeper than around a 3.20 rear end, with the modified engine, and the trans will try to drop out of overdrive into 3rd if the rpm drops below 1800-2000, at 60-70 mph. This will reduce gas mileage.

I understand what you are saying, but it does not apply to my application. I will be using a 3.50 rear end gear.

 

[UA_Iron]

I like the look of the 4th gen camaros better than the firebirds honestly, but their both cool.

Ford 9" are like 92%, while a 12-bolt rearend is like 94-95%, true the 9" is stronger than the 12 bolt, but a modified 12 bolt can stand up to some hp and lay down more horsepower. The 9" is the budget option though.

395ci ? is that a bored and stroked 350 block?

AFR heads make some huge claims with their heads, check em out. - all were tested with mild cams, crazy torque curves too.

 

[wtlftr]

Damn CRAK pwoned

 

[Buddy_Christ]

I can change gears in a ford 9" in 2-3 hours. Its i a quick change rear end. The problem here is that the 3.50 rear end is my optimal gear for my car with this combination in the 1/4th mile. I need to be able to hit at least 130 mph near peak horsepower in 3rd gear (around 6500 rpm) with the converter slipping (running an auto remember????). Anything deeper than around a 3.20 rear end, with the modified engine, and the trans will try to drop out of overdrive into 3rd if the rpm drops below 1800-2000, at 60-70 mph. This will reduce gas mileage.

I understand what you are saying, but it does not apply to my application. I will be using a 3.50 rear end gear.

i'd have to see a gearing chart based on what gearing the trans uses. as long as it's dropping into OD at about 55 you'll be fine provided the torque converter doesn't have a high stall speed. that'd be kinda nice to drop into OD at that speed and be revving 15-1800 rpm at 70mph.

 

[UA_Iron]

oh yeah, I'd keep the stock exhaust on

Mr. Gasket makes a Y pipe that fits behind the headers and has a lever you can pull which uncaps it. A mild sounding street machine turns into a demon from hell - your opponent wouldnt expect it.

 

[wtlftr]

yes, I agree..1800 RPM's at 70 mph

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I like the look of the 4th gen camaros better than the firebirds honestly, but their both cool.

Ford 9" are like 92%, while a 12-bolt rearend is like 94-95%, true the 9" is stronger than the 12 bolt, but a modified 12 bolt can stand up to some hp and lay down more horsepower. The 9" is the budget option though.

395ci ? is that a bored and stroked 350 block?

AFR heads make some huge claims with their heads, check em out. - all were tested with mild cams, crazy torque curves too.

I plan on using the AFR research 205 cc mongoose head orby. There are some mods that will need to be done to it, but its a good foundation. I'm very familiar with this company, and have carefully studied flow results, and combustion chamber design of the varies heads available for the ls-1.

The displacement will be from using a stock bore ls-1 block and a 4.125" lunati crank.

I'm not willing to disclose what will be done to the heads though... this is not information that is in circulation on the net, nor will it be by those in teh know.

 

[UA_Iron]

I plan on using the AFR research 205 cc mongoose head orby. There are some mods that will need to be done to it, but its a good foundation. I'm very familiar with this company, and have carefully studied flow results, and combustion chamber design of the varies heads available for the ls-1.

The displacement will be from using a stock bore ls-1 block and a 4.125" lunati crank.

I'm not willing to disclose what will be done to the heads though... this is not information that is in circulation on the net, nor will it be by those in teh know.

very nice. some big heads damn

 

[Deleted member 33117]

oh yeah, I'd keep the stock exhaust on

Mr. Gasket makes a Y pipe that fits behind the headers and has a lever you can pull which uncaps it. A mild sounding street machine turns into a demon from hell - your opponent wouldnt expect it.

I plan on running 1 3/4" to 17/8" steeped headers, with 3" true dual x-pipes.

If one wants to run uncaped in this type of application you do not pull a lever, you get electric cutouts. You press a button to open them up.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

I plan on running 1 3/4" to 17/8" steeped headers, with 3" true dual x-pipes.

If one wants to run uncaped in this type of application you do not pull a lever, you get electric cutouts. You press a button to open them up.

pull lever, push button, it's the same effect.

 

[UA_Iron]

I plan on running 1 3/4" to 17/8" steeped headers, with 3" true dual x-pipes.

If one wants to run uncaped in this type of application you do not pull a lever, you get electric cutouts. You press a button to open them up.

you got this all figured out then.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

pull lever, push button, it's the same effect.

A lever requires cutting more holes in the body, could add several more lbs to the FRONT of the car (never do this unless necissary) and could require mroe time to open when already dialing in changins in the fuel curve and timing in the computer in a hurry when another car pulls up next to you at a light at revs his engine at you.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

why a 3spd OD trans? would a 4spd OD trans suit your needs better or is it not strong enough?

i'm assuming you don't want a manual so you don't blow through clutches and the fact that for consistant times in the 1/4 an auto is better than a manual.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

why a 3spd OD trans? would a 4spd OD trans suit your needs better or is it not strong enough?

i'm assuming you don't want a manual so you don't blow through clutches and the fact that for consistant times in the 1/4 an auto is better than a manual.

It is a 4 spd od (4l60e was already stated). You do not use 4th for hard acceleration in these, thus 3rd gear is your highest gear for drag racing.

Manuals (unless you use a linco which a good one runs at least $5K and are not very streetable) cannot compete with autos in the 1/4th and are require more work to drive.

...of course your point about the clutch is valid... manuals require more upkeep and exploding clutches every 9th or 10th pass can lose you a lot of races and $$$.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

very nice. some big heads damn

Actuallly the ports on teh 205 cc afr are teh same size as factory. They flow 30% more though, and the set sent to C.A.R.B. for testing to be 50 state emissions approved came back showing (by this government agency) a 3% reduction in total emissions and a 2% increase in gas milage over stock heads.

They have no negative effect on low end power, but when bolted to an unmodified ls-1 shortblock (347 ci) using a very mild smooth idle cam and a good intake it pulled 530 hp and 475 ft/Ibs of torque.

Not a bit head, but a very solid foundation for a streetable ls-1. However there are some things that need to be done to them, especially in the way of improving thermal efficency. Why so many guys THINKthey can make maximal horsepower with aluminum heads right out of the box just because they flow well, is beyond me.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

It is a 4 spd od (4l60e was already stated). You do not use 4th for hard acceleration in these, thus 3rd gear is your highest gear for drag racing.

Manuals (unless you use a linco which a good one runs at least $5K and are not very streetable) cannot compete with autos in the 1/4th and are require more work to drive.

...of course your point about the clutch is valid... manuals require more upkeep and exploding clutches every 9th or 10th pass can lose you a lot of races and $$$.

you said something about dropping out of OD into 3rd which led me to believe you were going to use a 3spd OD trans.

could 4th gear handle the acceleration at the end of the 1/4 mile if your rear end gearing was very steep for drag strip passes?

another valid point for not using a manual....buddy's Chevelle had a 4spd when he bought it. he isn't the greatest stick shift driver in the world (although he won't admit it) and his extra aggressiveness on the clutch was probably what got the 12 bolt rear to start twisting. was a bored 350, nothing overly radical, but it was a worked engine.

 

[pitbullstl]

20 mpg with 600 hp? i have a hard time thinking that's even remotely possible

It would be tough in any automatic, but with a 6 speed, and on the highway, it's doable.

 

[nbmplano]

I know a little someting about ls1's so shout me a PM if you need some info, and who to talk to.
As Far as 600 Hp, 20mpg, and normal sounding. GOOD LUCK

Not to be an ass, but if your doing natural asperation, your going to have to go with an insane heads/cam setup, with which is going to have a huge lope and sound like a fucking race car.

Also, depending on what you want to do with the car, look into getting a formula and not a TA, that way you can get a hard top, and race it on the track, have it a little stiffer than a t-tops car, unless you are just doing quarter mile passes and street racing.

 

[evansteve]

holy crap, BBF is pretty car knowledgable.

I should ditch chasing women, and start learning how to fix up cars.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I know a little someting about ls1's so shout me a PM if you need some info, and who to talk to.
As Far as 600 Hp, 20mpg, and normal sounding. GOOD LUCK

Not to be an ass, but if your doing natural asperation, your going to have to go with an insane heads/cam setup, with which is going to have a huge lope and sound like a fucking race car.

Also, depending on what you want to do with the car, look into getting a formula and not a TA, that way you can get a hard top, and race it on the track, have it a little stiffer than a t-tops car, unless you are just doing quarter mile passes and street racing.

Not taking you to be an ass, but again, there are probably some things you do not know about regarding modern racing technology. Some of my mods will greatly inprove horsepower while actually improving gas mileage slightly.

Camwise I was thinking of something along the lines of 228 duration at .050 lift (single pattern cam), with a .588 lift and a 114 lca, I will probably run it 2 degrees retarded. Don't run the numbers on it through your calculations, you will come up 90-100 hp and 80-90 ft/lbs of torque short of what my combo will actually make.

I like the TA's, it will be stiff, even with the t-tops after I finish with it.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

It would be tough in any automatic, but with a 6 speed, and on the highway, it's doable.

Explain why a 6 speed would yield better gas mileage than a 4 speed auto with a lockup converter on the highway.