Are You Still Using This? STOP!!!

[Nelson Montana]

the fact most people don't get sides from vet grade gear and to say that most people do is a HUGE GENERALIZATION and not based in fact at all.

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IT'S A FACT BRO. THERE ARE SIDES NOBODY CAN EXPLAIN.


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In men,nolvadex acts as anti-estrogen in its capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). lh - leutenizing hormone - output by the pituitary will be increased as a result,which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

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"CAN" IS THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE. PERSOANLLY, THE EVIDENCE ISN'T VERY CONVINCING. PLUS, NOLVAA CAUSES A SEVERE DROP IN LIBIDO IN A LOT OF PEOPLE.


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As the study with Nolvadex progresses to 6 weeks, pituitary sensitivity to GnRH was significantly higher than pre-treated or 10-day levels. At this point the same 20mg dosage was also raising testosterone and LH levels to an average of 183% and 172% of base values, respectively, which again is measurably higher than what was noted 10 days into therapy.

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I HAVE TO QUESTION THIS. WHAT WERE THE BASELINES? BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY SOMEONE WITH A T LEVEL OF 500 WOULD HAVE A T OF OVER 1000 WITH THE USE OF NOLVAA.


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I've never denied that Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - durabolin can shut you down and trenbolone too for that matter....but as I've said measures can be taken to prevent being entirely shut down....and it's a seriously simple matter imo.

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WHENEVER YOU USE ANOTHER DRUG TO OFFSET THE SIDE EFFECTS OF ANOTHER DRUG, YOU'RE STRESSING THE BODY MORE THAN NECESSARY. BUT AGAIN, IF YOU LIKE IT, I DON'T WANT TO CONVINCE YOU NOT TO USE IT.

,,

 

[daveyboy2345]

without vet gear there would be no EQ. and that would be a cardinal sin in my book.

 

[rambleon]

Interesting discussion this.

I have to say i disagree about the vet gear. Not that there aren't sides that hasn't been adequately explained. That is indisputable. Nor that the economic factors involved with production of human grade and vet grade gear differs in the incentives they offer the producer. I just think that some of the vet compounds like eq or tren offers something that other steroids dont. It may be that u suck if u cant grow off other compounds but its not just how much u grow its how too. I'm talking about the quality of the gains here. And yes: Primo offers some of the highest quality gains of all but that doesn't change the fact that the gains made from some of the vet gear is very high quality too. Besides the endurance u'll get from eq is mindblowing. I think that if anecdotal evidence can cut it for ur products Nelson it shouldn't be altogether discounted concerning vet gear. Actually what is lacking is scientific knowledge about these compounds' effect on humans but until such is avaliable there is "a lot of satisfied customers".

Most of the other claims i agree with including the one about deca. I dont think the gains are worth the bloat and the shutdown.

 

[evilb]

.



#1: Mega Doses

Let's face it. You ain't Mr. Olympia. You will never be Mr. Olympia. There is no point in using mega doses. If you train hard and have your diet in check, you can make great gains on moderate dosages. Twice as much gear will not yield twice as much muscle. (It will however yield twice the side effects). Even if you're a casual lifter who is really just a lazy fuck who doesn't want to work hard and uses steroids to make it easier -- more won't do more for you. They only do so much, the excess is pissed away. And it causes damage in the process.

i definettly agree with all your points especially the tribulus which is a waste of money and time, so many people i know have tried yet everyone is pissed off with it, however i disagree with your last post about mega doses, in my opinion the more muscle you have the more receptors you have so using a 2000mg a week of test wont go excess if you have the muscle, btw in my opinion almost everyone can make it to 140kg-150kg level, if they eat right,train like a fuckin monster,100% devoted to the sport and if they juice right.

 

[xrsist]

 

[Tatyana]

offers some of the highest quality gains of all but that doesn't change the fact that the gains made from some of the vet gear is very high quality too. Besides the endurance u'll get from Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - is mindblowing. I think that if anecdotal evidence can cut it for ur products Nelson it shouldn't be altogether discounted concerning vet gear. Actually what is lacking is scientific knowledge about these compounds' effect on humans but until such is avaliable there is "a lot of satisfied customers".

I actually didn't realise that a lot of you are taking vet gear until recently.

Personally, I think this is bonkers, having done quite a bit of reading on what the pharmaceutical companies do with drugs that are for human consumption.

Drug development costs a lot of money. So there is a huge economic incentive after investing so much money getting the drug into use.

There is a huge issue with clinical trials. The pharmaceutical companies often run quite short trials, and the sides of a lot of drugs occur after taking the substance for a longer period with the drug, or from drug-drug interactions, or when discontinuing the drugs.

So how is it discovered that a drug is dodgy?

It is people who experience side effects who TELL THEIR DOCTOR who then submit a special form to the drug governing body (depends on the country), and it is further investigated.

The other BIG issue is that pharmaceutical companies DO NOT have to publish any of the adverse events that occur with people during clinical trials.

In fact, a lot of them take people out of studies where they show adverse events.

Also, a lot of the people that are used to investigate drugs are young men, so the effect the drug may have on women, children or teenagers is really, often unknown.

I am sure some of you have heard some of the problems that have arisen from anti-depressants. Case and point.

THere is a HUGE medical history of 'drugs gone wrong'.

So how does this relate to vet gear?

I am unaware of the clinical trials that they perform on animals. I would not be surprised if they either use mice or very few animals due to economic restraints.

Adverse events in animals occur as well, however, not as widely publised and it is not something that concerns people as much.

Most of you will not tell your doctor you are taking performance enhancing substances due to the current 'steroid witch hunt' in the USA, so adverse events will rarely be published in any of the medical journals.

You do not have the same physiology and metabolism of a horse or a cow, or chickens..................................

I would highly recommend getting pharmaceutical grade steroids if you are going to do them.

x
x
x

T

 

[rambleon]

I actually didn't realise that a lot of you are taking vet gear until recently.

Personally, I think this is bonkers, having done quite a bit of reading on what the pharmaceutical companies do with drugs that are for human consumption.

Drug development costs a lot of money. So there is a huge economic incentive after investing so much money getting the drug into use.

There is a huge issue with clinical trials. The pharmaceutical companies often run quite short trials, and the sides of a lot of drugs occur after taking the substance for a longer period with the drug, or from drug-drug interactions, or when discontinuing the drugs.

So how is it discovered that a drug is dodgy?

It is people who experience side effects who TELL THEIR DOCTOR who then submit a special form to the drug governing body (depends on the country), and it is further investigated.

The other BIG issue is that pharmaceutical companies DO NOT have to publish any of the adverse events that occur with people during clinical trials.

In fact, a lot of them take people out of studies where they show adverse events.

Also, a lot of the people that are used to investigate drugs are young men, so the effect the drug may have on women, children or teenagers is really, often unknown.

I am sure some of you have heard some of the problems that have arisen from anti-depressants. Case and point.

THere is a HUGE medical history of 'drugs gone wrong'.

So how does this relate to vet gear?

I am unaware of the clinical trials that they perform on animals. I would not be surprised if they either use mice or very few animals due to economic restraints.

Adverse events in animals occur as well, however, not as widely publised and it is not something that concerns people as much.

Most of you will not tell your doctor you are taking performance enhancing substances due to the current 'steroid witch hunt' in the USA, so adverse events will rarely be published in any of the medical journals.

You do not have the same physiology and metabolism of a horse or a cow, or chickens..................................

I would highly recommend getting pharmaceutical grade steroids if you are going to do them.

x
x
x

T

Actually i think this is more an argument why not to use drugs at all than why to stick to pharm grade. If we can't trust the pharmaceutical companies (and i agree we can't the greedy moneygrubbin' bastards) what difference does dodgy clinical trials make? I can see the point of the system in place for reporting back adverse effects being different but this is where i think the anecdotal evidence of users in the community is relevant. I agree this is not the same but its better than nothing. Besides a drug like tren was originally developed for human use in the form of parabolan. While pharm grade tren isnt avaliable today i've personally never encountered anything that'd come close to duplicating the effect of this drug.

 

[Whiskey]

there are however some Deca die hards out there..we are the few who react way deferent
to the compound then every one else dos...

<-----Is waving his hand up high. ;-)

Whiskey

 

[Tatyana]

Actually i think this is more an argument why not to use drugs at all than why to stick to pharm grade. If we can't trust the pharmaceutical companies (and i agree we can't the greedy moneygrubbin' bastards) what difference does dodgy clinical trials make? I can see the point of the system in place for reporting back adverse effects being different but this is where i think the anecdotal evidence of users in the community is relevant. I agree this is not the same but its better than nothing. Besides a drug like trenbolone was originally developed for human use in the form of parabolan. While pharm grade trenbolone isnt avaliable today i've personally never encountered anything that'd come close to duplicating the effect of this drug.

There still are more quality controls for human grade than animal grade, for example pyrogenicity (or 'fever causing'), higher levels of sterility, stability..................

 

[Nelson Montana]

One more time -- I never said vet gear didn't work or that people didn't like it.

Please don't confuse what's being said with a seperate issue.

As for Tatyana's remarks, I can sum them up like this; if a cow gets sick, what's he gonna say? Moo?