Are Gains from Steroids only Temporary?

[bogenjager]

I have seen many at the gym go on a cycle, increase their muscle mass considerably, only to lose it all once they go off cycle and they were using proper PCT.

I have tried a couple of cycles over the years and have experienced similar results; if you wait long enough you return to normal. The only thing that may have improved is that it broke me through plateaus to help me continue to grow a bit naturally.

Talking with a few elite trainers that used to be heavy weight bodybuilders, they say you can't keep anything and anabolics only induce hypertrophy while on cycle.

So my question is, is there any point using anabolic steroids for permanent muscle gain?

 

[wootoom]

For me they were permanent...that's why PCT is so important and well prepared cycling.

 

[bogenjager]

For me they were permanent...that's why PCT is so important and well prepared cycling.

Out of curiosity what do you typically use for PCT?

 

[bigbassturd]

You are as big as you eat.

If you are 220 and run a cycle and then weigh 230, you can't keep eating like you did when you were 220 or you will go right back to that size.

AAS work, but they aren't magic.

 

[bogenjager]

You are as big as you eat.

If you are 220 and run a cycle and then weigh 230, you can't keep eating like you did when you were 220 or you will go right back to that size.

AAS work, but they aren't magic.

Eating could be an issue for those who are naturally thin with high metabolisms. I just quickly get fat if my calories are even slightly elevated even on cycle.

 

[bigbassturd]

So does everyone else if they eat a bunch of shit foods.

3000 calories of pizza and fried chicken is a lot different than 3000 calories of healthy whole foods.

 

[RickRock13]

When you come off of cycle, you won't be able yo maintain the same strength, hardness, and fullness that you did on cycle with sky high hormones. Normal range of test just can't compete with 10 times that.....that much is true.

However, a well planned PCT and good diet/training can allow you to recover quickly and retain most of the strength and muscle gained on cycle.

Cycling will always be two steps forward, and one step back. That is just part of the game.

 

[melochai]

When you come off of cycle, you won't be able yo maintain the same strength, hardness, and fullness that you did on cycle with sky high hormones. Normal range of test just can't compete with 10 times that.....that much is true.

However, a well planned PCT and good diet/training can allow you to recover quickly and retain most of the strength and muscle gained on cycle.

Cycling will always be two steps forward, and one step back. That is just part of the game.

Well said, very well said.

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[bonacris]

How much weigh that people put on is lean muscle.. my 1st ever cycle I gained about 35lbs and keep around 15lbs because all the rest was water.. the majority of weight you see your average gym user gain on a cycle is water and fat..

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[-SD-]

I would say maintaining your diet is key like bigbass mentioned. The minute i let my diet slack is the minute my body wants to go back to how it was before the gains. You have to change the mindset regarding your diet because extra mass requires extra food pretty much forever.

 

[stevesmi]

you need to have built a base and have your diet and training on point to make any gains with or without steroids.

see criminal10dinc on youtube.. the dude has run more juice in the past 2 months than i have run in maybe 2 or 3 years and he still looks like shit.

 

[bigbassturd]

No kidding. A gram of test for 5 months and tren for 3, and he can't deadlift 250....

Why shoot a gram and a half of juice for half a year if you still look like there isn't a gym within 100 miles?

 

[-SD-]

No kidding. A gram of test for 5 months and tren for 3, and he can't deadlift 250....

Why shoot a gram and a half of juice for half a year if you still look like there isn't a gym within 100 miles?

He was on that much sauce for that gutdamn 235 DL vid he threw up? Now Ive seen it all.

 

[bonacris]

Fuck you stevemi.. I just watch one of his videos.. he's a fucking tool.. wanted to punch my screen

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[-SD-]

2-3-5


like a boss

 

[stevesmi]

Fuck you stevemi.. I just watch one of his videos.. he's a fucking tool.. wanted to punch my screen

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lol sorry.

i have nothing against the guy personally.. plenty of douches on there with vlogs. i just use him as an example to show guys how dumb it is to juice when you don't have any base.

 

[bigbassturd]

Yeah, that much jooses, and he can't deadlift what I warm up on bench with natty. Absolute 100% proof in the making that if you don't know how to eat and train, you won't gain shit from AAS.

 

[-SD-]

i will tell you the worst thing about the entire criminal10dinc saga is he will make a lot of bros think his source is running fake shit. And that was a big reason I did not buy until i did a ton more verifying and research until i was satisfied it wasnt bunk gear lol

 

[Sherk]

lol sorry.

i have nothing against the guy personally.. plenty of douches on there with vlogs. i just use him as an example to show guys how dumb it is to juice when you don't have any base.

Post a link I can't find it. I could use a good laugh.


When we do right nobody remembers, when we do wrong nobody forgets. H.A.M.C

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[stevesmi]

i love the guys who make vlogs on youtube giving steroid advice and they 1. look like average weekend warriors and 2. have run 1 cycle in their life but now are experts. and then you have teens watch it and think that advice is correct so they follow it. sheesh.

looks like criminal took down all his vids, maybe he read this thread? oh well.

 

[bigbassturd]

i love the guys who make vlogs on youtube giving steroid advice and they 1. look like average weekend warriors and 2. have run 1 cycle in their life but now are experts. and then you have teens watch it and think that advice is correct so they follow it. sheesh.

looks like criminal took down all his vids, maybe he read this thread? oh well.

Good. Might save some highschool kid from a lifetime of endocrine problems. That shit is dangerous to have on the net, so many kids will think it's ok because he pretends to know what he's doing and they won't research before it's too late.

Personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with someone who looks to be made out of spaghetti noodles and #2 pencils, but kids are stupid...

 

[bonacris]

I didn't find his deadlift video I just found one where he was talking rubbish about hcg.. still wanted to punch him..

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[bigbassturd]

The only thing I have ever heard him say that I agreed with, was during a little spiel where he was talking about how he was considering blasting and cruising indefinitely, and he was trying to justify why that might be ok for someone his age and size (seriously)... at some point he says 'i don't really want kids, and to be honest this world would probably be better off if I didn't have children'

I have never heard a statement more true

 

[Rockwilder]

Good. Might save some highschool kid from a lifetime of endocrine problems. That shit is dangerous to have on the net, so many kids will think it's ok because he pretends to know what he's doing and they won't research before it's too late.

Personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with someone who looks to be made out of spaghetti noodles and #2 pencils, but kids are stupid...

I've seen his videos, and that's the first thing I was thinking as well. He's talking about injecting and taking Tren like it's some simple, elementary thing to do. Could definitely influence someone negatively, and we would hear from that person at some point on the forums asking what is PCT, and why they lost their gains, feel like shit...should they go on TRT, etc.

Good news is...not too many people are watching this clown's videos lol! I'm with Bonacris...honestly, I thought the whole thing was a joke.

 

[Rockwilder]

Fuck you stevemi.. I just watch one of his videos.. he's a fucking tool.. wanted to punch my screen

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You made me laugh bro lol. As sad as it is...

 

[bonacris]

I've seen his videos, and that's the first thing I was thinking as well. He's talking about injecting and taking Tren like it's some simple, elementary thing to do. Could definitely influence someone negatively, and we would hear from that person at some point on the forums asking what is PCT, and why they lost their gains, feel like shit...should they go on TRT, etc.

Good news is...not too many people are watching this clown's videos lol! I'm with Bonacris...honestly, I thought the whole thing was a joke.

Unfortunately he's just another in a long line of people who glorify steroid use and make it seem like there are no consequences.. look at videos of that zyzz moron.. endless comments from people saying he's an inspiration.. the guy didn't use AAS, he abused them. He also took coke, clen and prob that other shit that I won't mention because it could get me banned.. and no he's dead in his early 20's..

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[louisiana]

I have seen many at the gym go on a cycle, increase their muscle mass considerably, only to lose it all once they go off cycle and they were using proper PCT.

I have tried a couple of cycles over the years and have experienced similar results; if you wait long enough you return to normal. The only thing that may have improved is that it broke me through plateaus to help me continue to grow a bit naturally.

Talking with a few elite trainers that used to be heavy weight bodybuilders, they say you can't keep anything and anabolics only induce hypertrophy while on cycle.

So my question is, is there any point using anabolic steroids for permanent muscle

 

[bogenjager]

When you come off of cycle, you won't be able yo maintain the same strength, hardness, and fullness that you did on cycle with sky high hormones. Normal range of test just can't compete with 10 times that.....that much is true.

However, a well planned PCT and good diet/training can allow you to recover quickly and retain most of the strength and muscle gained on cycle.

Cycling will always be two steps forward, and one step back. That is just part of the game.

That is a good response thanks. I realize there is a minimum time between cycles, but is there a typical maximum time to take between cycles to keep progressing? For example if I did one 10 week cycle every year, is that too long to wait between cycles?

 

[bigbassturd]

No, and don't fool yourself into thinking you have to be on cycle to make gains or progress....

 

[tony1354142]

I have seen many at the gym go on a cycle, increase their muscle mass considerably, only to lose it all once they go off cycle and they were using proper PCT.
I have tried a couple of cycles over the years and have experienced similar results; if you wait long enough you return to normal. The only thing that may have improved is that it broke me through plateaus to help me continue to grow a bit naturally.

Talking with a few elite trainers that used to be heavy weight bodybuilders, they say you can't keep anything and anabolics only induce hypertrophy while on cycle.

So my question is, is there any point using anabolic steroids for permanent muscle gain?

For me is was poor pct. Most likely anyone who seems to lose it all, had a poor choice of pct. I thought I was doing everything for pct correctly and was way off. So when someone tells u they did pct correctly, how do u really know. And as far as what to use in it and how much generally depends on which compounds and how long you run your cycle.

If you want to know a proper pct, research and look around this site. There are some knowledgeable people here and they are willing to help. Or learn the hard way like I did. It sux tho bro ugh....(two steps forward, one step back) perfect

 

[El Hefe]

I used to hear the saying; "You don't own it til you've kept it for a year". That's not precise but I think it might hold a little truth.

I used to be 5' 10" at 150 lbs. I ate like a man possessed for years and eventually got to 230lbs. After keeping 230 lbs for 2-3 years, I've found that I really don't have to eat that much. I literally eat half the calories I did gaining.

Of course I've also gotten older and my metabolism has slowed down.

 

[-SD-]

Roid gains are temporary if you do not alter your diet after the cycle. If you gain 10 pounds you have to keep eating to keep that 10 pounds.

 

[tony1354142]

Say man I believe u are correct. Keep it for a year and u own it...hmm never heard that but I feel that holds a little true myself

 

[perryscoon]

No matter what you do you can't look exactly like you did on your cycle, but you can keep a lot of the mass. As far as looking chizzled, vieny, and cut off cycle? Not gonna happen, I don't care how lean you eat or how much cardio you do. That shit goes away.

 

[-SD-]

No matter what you do you can't look exactly like you did on your cycle, but you can keep a lot of the mass. As far as looking chizzled, vieny, and cut off cycle? Not gonna happen, I don't care how lean you eat or how much cardio you do. That shit goes away.

Yea its much harder to get ripped than to pack on mass for me, natty or not, at least for me

 

[TheRippedReverend]

This is/can be a hard thing to do. It just takes dicipline which I believe is the hardest to do. Where most fail is food. You think your eatting enough but your not and how do you know if you food isnt weighed out? You dont! You miss a meal bc you meals wernt packed or you were hanging with the buddies and had a drink then went out. If you missed a meal one time a week at 600 cals by week 6 youd loose 1.5lbs plus water plus plus plus....

One thing is for sure you will never look like you do on cyc you rbc is just screaming!!! Your full, strong......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nTbqv1NFqw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[bogenjager]

This is/can be a hard thing to do. It just takes dicipline which I believe is the hardest to do. Where most fail is food. You think your eatting enough but your not and how do you know if you food isnt weighed out? You dont! You miss a meal bc you meals wernt packed or you were hanging with the buddies and had a drink then went out. If you missed a meal one time a week at 600 cals by week 6 youd loose 1.5lbs plus water plus plus plus....

I do imagine that would definitely help. I am a person that is prone to fat gain very easily (and yes I eat clean). I know somatotypes are a generalization, but I am definitely not an ectomorph, more of and endo-meso just to give you an idea. I often do a cutting phase after my PCT is done because I tend to gain some fat on cycle even though I am strictly controlling calories. I know other guys at the gym that eat what ever they want and eat a lot of it while on cycle will no ill effects. I eat clean and control my calories to limit fat gain.

Perhaps it is this cutting phase I do after a cycle that really contributes to returning to my original state...and the fact that I wait 1-3 years between cycles.

I know not all muscle gained on cycle is real muscle, but water, plasma, etc, etc. My goal is to keep say 25% of what I have gained.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

I do imagine that would definitely help. I am a person that is prone to fat gain very easily (and yes I eat clean). I know somatotypes are a generalization, but I am definitely not an ectomorph, more of and endo-meso just to give you an idea. I often do a cutting phase after my PCT is done because I tend to gain some fat on cycle even though I am strictly controlling calories. I know other guys at the gym that eat what ever they want and eat a lot of it while on cycle will no ill effects. I eat clean and control my calories to limit fat gain.

Perhaps it is this cutting phase I do after a cycle that really contributes to returning to my original state...and the fact that I wait 1-3 years between cycles.

I know not all muscle gained on cycle is real muscle, but water, plasma, etc, etc. My goal is to keep say 25% of what I have gained.

Yea, bro kno what you mean! Am very prone to fat also and its like it only goes to my stomach.

Digestive breakdown plays a big role. You could look into cla, ala, forskollin, gear and carb complex I make my own but you can buy online. Alot of ppl say no white rice this is a mistake imo bc if you start with brown you have no where to go from there. Plus really no f n difference just one is lower on the glycemex index. So this is why we'd use brown rice last portion of cutt phase for prep plus you body reacts to it bc you made a change. Shock theory.

If you eat the same thing over and over again your body is smart and will start fighting you. You need fat. Good fats are estential to burning fat. One might do better on higher fats or carbs however carbs are usually the enemy bc carbs that are not burned turn into sugar and sugar = fat storage if not used.

In short turn trick the body change work outs. However, 1-3 year between cycle is just to far. Problem when you come off AAS is.... See everyone thinks shit my hpta will be down so I need pct well you need pct but not only for hpta. AAS lowers igf levels efecting gh, cortizol is a big huge one this is why some gain fat off cycle they've done nothin for their cortizol so that can shut down too.

Imo need t3 pct with every cyc or sime type of cortizol pct shit loads of vit c will help ah little. Ppl do bridges for a reason if you gain 2-5lbs from a cyc as a gain after pct that is great!!! Really good even 3lbs if you do 3 cycles a year that would be 9lbs of muscle HUGE gain.

I had a test of 299 then 366 for one year and am soooo prone to fat gain however, I stayed at 11-14% so its possible its just playing with things and hard hard work. Problem for me know is that bc of low test am stuck with muscle gain which will with hold fat loss bc the more muscle you have the more likely u r to burn fat.