Anyone with HRT experience please help!

[heavydutyhit]

I have had a rough time over the past 2 years gaining mass. I have tried many different training and nutritional protocols but nothing works. Losing body fat is also almost impossible. I am a personal trainer and have been bodybuilding since I was 15. I am now 28 years old and have still never taken any type of steroid or thyroid drug.

Anyway i decided to get some blood work done because I knew that hypothyroidism runs in my family, which i figured was probably the reason for my symptoms. After my blood work came back, my thyroid levels were normal, but my testosterone came back as 99! They told me normal was between 250-950 or something. I don't know a whole lot about this but any experience or advice would be appreciated bc I am totally fucking stressed out now!

 

[mrribbit]

I have had a rough time over the past 2 years gaining mass. I have tried many different training and nutritional protocols but nothing works. Losing body fat is also almost impossible. I am a personal trainer and have been bodybuilding since I was 15. I am now 28 years old and have still never taken any type of steroid or thyroid drug.

Anyway i decided to get some blood work done because I knew that hypothyroidism runs in my family, which i figured was probably the reason for my symptoms. After my blood work came back, my thyroid levels were normal, but my testosterone came back as 99! They told me normal was between 250-950 or something. I don't know a whole lot about this but any experience or advice would be appreciated bc I am totally fucking stressed out now!

Ok bro relax cause stress can actually help keep your test level going down. You are a few years away from being able to qualify for HRT.

If I were you, I would try some of Pp's products. IE - Sustain, Toco-8 and Phyto Test. These will most definately raise your test level and also help you feel better. Try it, it def can't hurt bro! As to WHY your level is so low, what was and have you done a cycle of AAS before?

 

[Chrisco915]

How is he a few years away from "qualifying" for HRT? Anyone can qaulify based on their numbers.....not their age.

 

[mrribbit]

How is he a few years away from "qualifying" for HRT? Anyone can qaulify based on their numbers.....not their age.

HRT according to the wonderful insurance laws we have in the USA is not to be given to until age of 31 to be covered (NOT ALL COMPANIES). You could always pay cash but I would opt for the sustain before I go test injection hunting. Thats all

 

[goin on 4T]

I have had a rough time over the past 2 years gaining mass. I have tried many different training and nutritional protocols but nothing works. Losing body fat is also almost impossible. I am a personal trainer and have been bodybuilding since I was 15. I am now 28 years old and have still never taken any type of steroid or thyroid drug.

Anyway i decided to get some blood work done because I knew that hypothyroidism runs in my family, which i figured was probably the reason for my symptoms. After my blood work came back, my thyroid levels were normal, but my testosterone came back as 99! They told me normal was between 250-950 or something. I don't know a whole lot about this but any experience or advice would be appreciated bc I am totally fucking stressed out now!

I think you need to go see and Endo. He should be able to help you, especially if you have never done AAS. There is some underlying issue that needs to be found before you just start dumping test into your gluts. I am in my 40's my test was in the crapper, but I know what my issue was, stress major stress. That is what did it for me!
Again I suggest you seek professional medical attention to find the underlying cause of your low test levels!

 

[FunFun]

I am in my 40's my test was in the crapper, but I know what my issue was, stress major stress. That is what did it for me!

Surely a decent exercise program would keep the stress under control. It appears the OP does plenty of exercise as a personal trainer.

 

[halfcenturian]

Time to get on the juice, Bro. Go talk to and endo or urologist and get on some Test.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'd do a run of UNLEASHESD and Derma, followed by some POST CYCLE and Sustain. Then get checked again. Lots of things can supress T. It very well can be temporary and at your age you can rebound. Don;t commit to a lifetime of hormone replacement just yet.

 

[halfcenturian]

Nelsons advice is good. HRT is for life. But if you need it... you need it. I would exhaust every other opion first. I didn't do any gear or HRT until I was 46.

After 13 years of lifting weights do you think you have reached your genetic peak?

 

[goin on 4T]

Surely a decent exercise program would keep the stress under control. It appears the OP does plenty of exercise as a personal trainer.

Don't kid yourself! Stress and smoking are the worst two things for your body. Then there is a just plain shitty diet! People have different stress levels and some people just don't or are not able to manage stress well.

 

[needtogetaas]

I'd do a run of UNLEASHESD and Derma, followed by some POST CYCLE and Sustain. Then get checked again. Lots of things can supress T. It very well can be temporary and at your age you can rebound. Don;t commit to a lifetime of hormone replacement just yet.

I think Nelson is right. I would give this a shot. I feel it can work for you. I will also help you and make it as cheap as it can be. Send me a pm for sicounts on all of it.

There is many reasons why you have low test. I would add photo test to this mix though. I know some times Myself and nelson can sound like we are pushing products but we say it for a reason.


Bro I make enough money to say this to you. Get the products and give it a shot. If you feel no better then before. I will give you your money back out of my own pockets. Yup I will pay you back myself. I have said this prob about 5 times on ef and never had to cough up mu money when I have don so. I am doing it again with your case.

Do what nelson has said and if it don't help I will give you every dime you spent back out of my own pocket. In fact give me your order receipts and keep a ef log.

My word is gold and always will be. I dare any one to test me on it.

 

[rpol]

I started steroids at 32 in the form of HRT and ran cycles too. my doctor went by my numbers and even fought my insurance for HRT. unfortunately my current situation is without insurance. I have been on it for 8 years now and doing fine. It improved my emotions 100 fold as well as my physical. Hes reduced me from 200mg a week to 100mg and unfortunately lack of tr4aining and no cycles for 2 years have reduced my physique but if there are no other avenues go with it I am still on HRT and have no regrets especially at 40 keeping up with a 20 yr. old wife.

 

[goin on 4T]

I am still on HRT and have no regrets especially at 40 keeping up with a 20 yr. old wife.

Nice job!!!

 

[Bridger]

As someone who is younger than you and on HRT, i strongly encourage you to do extensive testing to find out why your levels are so low. Your levels suggest something serious going on that i doubt supplements can fix. I could be wrong, but i would try to rule out any tumors, or being primary hypogonadic(testis don't produce enough testosterone).

 

[SVPVRMAN]

When was the blood test taken? Remember that serum testosterone levels fluctuate throughout the day, did you take it first thing in the morning?

If so, i would follow Nelson's suggestion and try some OTC supplements first, run for 4-6 weeks and get another test. If you aren't happy with the results, then 200mg testosterone a week would help significantly, if you wish to add another anabolic/and or/ androgen is up to you.

 

[heavydutyhit]

Thanks for all of the advice on here guys. I just got the test results beack yesterday morning so I was just wanting to get as much info as possible. I really appreciate the supp offer needto. I will more than likely try your advice/offer later on. First things first, I am going to see an Endocrinologist to get everything checked out before I decide what I am going to do.

It just really sucks as a natural bodybuilder you know? I mean as a bodybuilder I have been tempted by steroids my entire career, but have never pulled the trigger because I didn't want to shut down my natural production. And now @ 28, it looks to these doctors like I have been juicing for years. It really fucking sucks. I should know when my appointment and shit is all going to take place by this evening. I will keep you good bros posted, and again I appreciate all of the responses here.

 

[hulksterii]

My regular MD just prescribed me Androgel and left me alone. I still didn't feel any better so that is when I paid the $ for an HRT doc. Actually a D.O. They will only prescribe enough to get you to a reasonable level. Thierthought was that I was low 375 but the magic number of 200 doesn;t mean really anything. It is a matter of what is best for you - remeber it is an art and not a science (well most of it is). At 375 I felt miserable and now at double that I am feeling alot better but still think I need a tweek.

I want to add size for one and hopefully not hurt myself much more through strains and pains.

 

[FunFun]

*deleted*

 

[HAYEZ]

Ok bro relax cause stress can actually help keep your test level going down. You are a few years away from being able to qualify for HRT.

If I were you, I would try some of Pp's products. IE - Sustain, Toco-8 and Phyto Test. These will most definately raise your test level and also help you feel better. Try it, it def can't hurt bro! As to WHY your level is so low, what was and have you done a cycle of AAS before?

his test scores are 99...age doesnt matter.

 

[goin on 4T]

What do you mean don't kid yourself?

Exercise is one of the best ways to cope with mental stress. Obviously the best way to cope with too much physical stress is to reduce it.

Smoking can be beneficial too...especially if it contains THC - an extremely good stress reliever.

Haha! Exercise is not going to raise his test level from 99 to anything near normal.

 

[heavydutyhit]

Thanks for the replies bros. I still won't know when my Dr. Appointment will be until tomorrow afternoon. He is of course out of the office on Friday, so I have to call them tomorrow to set it up.

Since I am totally oblivious to what is normal/abnormal, i was wondering of one of you could just lay down the facts here so I am not flying blind when i go to see the doc. I know that your test levels drop throughout the day, but all the way down to 99? I mean even if you double that number it still isn't normal right? And there isn't going to be a 50% drop from the morning to the afternoon is there? Again I am 100% steroid free, so this isn't a post cycle crash deal. Basically I have been struggling to lose bodyfat for at least 2 years now and have lost about 20 lbs of muscle mass since this summer. This is not due to lack of training, lack of nutritional planning, or lack of sleep either. The things I have been doing are the things that have worked for me my entire career. But now I feel like shit most of the day. Even though i get 8-10 hrs of sleep a night I still have to fight dosing off throughout the day. It is also now very difficult to get through my workouts. All of you good bros can probably relate to the point that if my bodybuilding is off, or i feel like I am not making progress, I get depressed and it is hard to focus on anything. So maybe this info will help you give me better advice as to what to expect the next few months.

I am going to post some pics I took this summer. My bodyfat of course was high because again I have been struggling for some time, but at least you guys will be able to see the mass i put on naturally over the years.

 

[FunFun]

Haha! Exercise is not going to raise his test level from 99 to anything near normal.

I never said it would. You took my reply out of context.

 

[galaxy]

Not sure where the 31 yrs old law came from. I have a friend who is 30yrs old and gets the gel for low test levels.

 

[goin on 4T]

I never said it would. You took my reply out of context.

I didn't know you were in context?

 

[goin on 4T]

Thanks for the replies bros. I still won't know when my Dr. Appointment will be until tomorrow afternoon. He is of course out of the office on Friday, so I have to call them tomorrow to set it up.

Since I am totally oblivious to what is normal/abnormal, i was wondering of one of you could just lay down the facts here so I am not flying blind when i go to see the doc. I know that your test levels drop throughout the day, but all the way down to 99? I mean even if you double that number it still isn't normal right? And there isn't going to be a 50% drop from the morning to the afternoon is there? Again I am 100% steroid free, so this isn't a post cycle crash deal. Basically I have been struggling to lose bodyfat for at least 2 years now and have lost about 20 lbs of muscle mass since this summer. This is not due to lack of training, lack of nutritional planning, or lack of sleep either. The things I have been doing are the things that have worked for me my entire career. But now I feel like shit most of the day. Even though i get 8-10 hrs of sleep a night I still have to fight dosing off throughout the day. It is also now very difficult to get through my workouts. All of you good bros can probably relate to the point that if my bodybuilding is off, or i feel like I am not making progress, I get depressed and it is hard to focus on anything. So maybe this info will help you give me better advice as to what to expect the next few months.

I am going to post some pics I took this summer. My bodyfat of course was high because again I have been struggling for some time, but at least you guys will be able to see the mass i put on naturally over the years. QUOTE]

Just basically repeat that to any Endo who knows anything about male body chemistry and you should be an instant candidate for HRT. That sounds like my issues pretty much. If your doc is unable/undesires to treat you let me know I will send you in the right direction.
Good Luck!

 

[FunFun]

I didn't know you were in context?

That's obvious by your reply, but nowhere did I mention that exercise would increase test level.

I mentioned that exercise can reduce stress, that's all. Someone else mentioned that lowered stress could increase test levels and somehow you came to the conclusion that I said it.

If you didn't use "hahahaha" in your reply this would have gone no further. If you're going to make fun of my comments, expect a reply.

 

[heavydutyhit]

Another question.

If I do have to start taking some test to get my levels back up to normal, will I have all of the negative sides I read about when researching this shit like hair loss, infertility and shit? i mean I still want to have kids, and i dont wanna lose all of my hair. But if I just take enough to regain a normal level there shouldnt be really bad sides right? I would be worse off physiologically to NOT do something about this am I correct? Thoughts?

 

[artificialaspirations]

I'm 28 and just started hrt a few months ago. If your test is low its low and no matter when you took your test your levels shouldn't be 99. That's lower than I was and I qualify no problem. You are correct, low test is bad for your health. That's not to say that hrt doesn't have its challenges, but I feel much better. Go over to the hrt forum and do some reading. You should be well informed of possible side effects before starting

 

[rediculus]

I'd do a run of UNLEASHESD and Derma, followed by some POST CYCLE and Sustain. Then get checked again. Lots of things can supress T. It very well can be temporary and at your age you can rebound. Don;t commit to a lifetime of hormone replacement just yet.

Honestly I thought genetically it was virtually impossible for me to drop my BF any lower than it was...and it ain't low but dermatherm is having an effect on my composition..the dermal absorbtion is legit..I said aint...That's a word now right? Fucking British can't speak proper English and now Americans are loosing that shit too..

Anyways PP's products and I will say one thing.They work! Unleashed is less than taking your girl to Carl's Jr and the effects in essence could be a massive change in your situation.

This is where my delusional opinion comes in. You may get your body used to test levels that are higher.. In essence when you come off of a month or so of Sustain and Unleashed..other products that assist natural T levels..gradually your body will normalize at those levels so when your come off..your body says WOAH where's my test bishes? GONADS GET TA WORK!! Make sense?

That's pure back woods logic so don't take that as any form of recommendation. I do believe that a body given the right supplements and methodology can be tricked into believing that it's own natural test levels should be higher wherefore increasing production on it's own.

Unleashed, Sustain are 2 products I believe would do this. However to research and document that I simply don't have the money to do just yet. Anyone else care to discuss? And yes I believe wholeheartedly that we are underestimating at what age our test levels should be dropping. The crap we put in our food the test our cows are eating and other hormones I believe is beginning to suppress people at younger and younger ages. The reason more natural foods are so great!! It allows your body's natural hormones do what it was supposed to do. dude I do not shutup do i?

 

[heavydutyhit]

Ok bros i just got off the phone with the receptionist. I have my appointment next Thursday (Nov. 6) to see the Urologist. I will keep you guys updated.

 

[rediculus]

Research natural alternatives and diet...Much more red meat and fatty foods...If for nothing else than the Oh that tastes good effect.

The Depression lack of sleep...These thing if I am correct cannot be corrected by test? HGH will have an effect on overall sense of well being and sleep. Get the script of course but I highly recommend trying out some products that are OTC and less suppressive of natural test. Just to see how it is working. Your doc will continue to let you keep getting tested just for the simple fact that they want to make sure the HRT is working. So if you want to reduce sides go that route and see where your test levels are at and keep going until you find where you like it. Also I believe HGH if a part of your HRT is reasonable for reducing body fat.

 

[Varga]

Bro, just go to the doctor and get all blood work done. Your situation is not as rare as you think. Based on the blood work it should be easier to figure out what went wrong....I've chated with my doctor and sometimes shit can go wrong with either your nuts or pituitary regardless of what you do, he said he has seen many cases like yours. As long as you don't have cancer or lasions or something bad sometimes shit just goes south.
Meantime, just take it a step back in the gym, lift light and take it easy. Also cut down on your food intake, because with low test all the extra calories will turn into fat that's what happened to me anyway.

 

[heavydutyhit]

K bros here we go. Went to the urologist today and here is the deal.

He asked me all of the routine questions and I gave the answers and then he scratched his head. Pelted me about roids as soon as i mentioned bodybuilding and weight training. It didn't seem like he believed me when I told him i had never touched AAS or HGH. So i told him to feel free to test me for AAS. He kinda shrugged that off and gave the twins a physical exam. He said that anatomically my testes are fine and are of normal size ect. He said the normal things that they worry about don't apply to my case so he wants to do a more in depth blood test with blood taken in the morning bc blood tests in the evening can come back low. So I got some more blood taken and I have a follow up appt next Thursday.

Here is my question. I know that test levels drop throughout the day, but even if the original test was done on blood taken in the evening, normal levels wouldn't plummet all the way down to 99 would they? I mean even if you double it I am still below normal. Am I right here? What are the odds of the new test showing normal levels?

 

[goin on 4T]

Here is my question. I know that test levels drop throughout the day, but even if the original test was done on blood taken in the evening, normal levels wouldn't plummet all the way down to 99 would they? I mean even if you double it I am still below normal. Am I right here? What are the odds of the new test showing normal levels?

Well atleast you got a dr that isn't a douche or an idiot!
Everyone is diff. who knows how much your test dips...
Does it matter?
Do you want HRT?
Or do you want to find the problem and resolve it?
If you want you test to be low in the morning that is not to hard either...

 

[Nelson Montana]

They work! Unleashed is less than taking your girl to Carl's Jr and the effects in essence could be a massive change in your situation.


That's pure back woods logic so don't take that as any form of recommendation. I do believe that a body given the right supplements and methodology can be tricked into believing that it's own natural test levels should be higher wherefore increasing production on it's own.

Unleashed, Sustain are 2 products I believe would do this. However to research and document that I simply don't have the money to do just yet. Anyone else care to discuss? And yes I believe wholeheartedly that we are underestimating at what age our test levels should be dropping. The crap we put in our food the test our cows are eating and other hormones I believe is beginning to suppress people at younger and younger ages. The reason more natural foods are so great!! It allows your body's natural hormones do what it was supposed to do. dude I do not shutup do i?

Always glad to see satisfaction.

Remember folks, these products are from TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES. But each has enough respect for the effectiveness of the individual compounds to recommend a competitors product. And they really do work well together.

 

[702daswoll1]

Nelsons advice is good. HRT is for life. But if you need it... you need it. I would exhaust every other opion first. I didn't do any gear or HRT until I was 46.

After 13 years of lifting weights do you think you have reached your genetic peak?

Ur old.

 

[heavydutyhit]

Well atleast you got a dr that isn't a douche or an idiot!
Everyone is diff. who knows how much your test dips...
Does it matter?
Do you want HRT?
Or do you want to find the problem and resolve it?
If you want you test to be low in the morning that is not to hard either...

Well if it is possible to kick start my normal test production and bring my levels back up to a high normal level then i would definitely prefer that. But if we go that rte and i am still in the 200's then that is bullshit, and i will be open to HRT. I do not however wish so have superhuman levels way above normal. I just want normal levels in the upper range and my genetics will take care of the rest bodybuilding wise. I am also going to get my fertility checked before i agree to any kind of therapy because i do not wish to suppress that aspect of my future.

 

[heavydutyhit]

Ok my endo prescribed me Androgel. 4 pumps per day which is 5gm (5mg test absorbed). I have been on a week and haven't really noticed shit, but the more I read about this the more I am like what the fuck do i need to do here? Again i am totally lost in regards to testosterone injections, gels, patches, hcg, anti-es, ect, and how they are all connected. Should I use an anti-e and finesteride with this shit like someone told me to do ro not? I just want my test levels back up to the high normal ranges without killing my chances of having kids, without my fucking hair falling out, without growing breasts, without growing a massive prostate, and without my nuts shrinking up to raisin size!

Here are my levels pre-Androgel:

TEST = 99-202
LH= 1.3
FSH= 1.6

 

[the_alcatraz]

I'm actually interested to see if there is a minimum age at which one should consider HRT?

 

[walliwalibus]

Me too. I am 38, and I am losing hair, and feel normal as I always do. Maybe I should go have a test done. Nah, I have been taking unleashed and PCT for awhile. But I am curious on the age thing.

 

[Black Boxster]

Guys...I decided to get tested for low test based upon my age and what I've read on EF....My Primary Doc ran the test and the next day called in a script for Testim I've been on it a week before I start cycle, and so far...I' diggin it...slightly more aggression..and I'm a 45yr fucking Machine.....strength is good...I'll know better when I see my Doc next week...
Most Doc in my area are more than glad to write a script for either Androgel ot Testim...both can be effective

Good luck bro...just see if they can find the cause....

 

[walliwalibus]

Whoa..... I am going to doc soon, I am getting tested as I took the test on the website and well..... I may have low test myself.... we will see.

 

[heavydutyhit]

bump for an actual response/answer to my question/situation.

 

[artificialaspirations]

just take the test. dont complicate it

 

[Black Boxster]

bump for an actual response/answer to my question/situation.

?????? Bro I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but I think people have been answering your question....if your Test levels are LOW go on HRT. A doc will write a script for either Androgel/Testim or put you on weekly Test shots....many will try the androgel first. Most isurance companies WILL pay for it if medically neccesary..and if your levels are low...it is neccesary.

I wouoldn't start adding any anti E agent or anthing yet...see how your body is going to react the the androgel...the Doc should be doing a follow up blood work within two weeks of Androgel...if your levels are going up...he with either first try doubling your dose...or move over to injects....if your worried about gyno...you'll notice...nipples may start getting itchy, etc...if any signs do appear, there are lots of threads on this forum for clearing up some gyno....

Take a deep breath bro...I thinking your going into panic mode..remeber first discuss this all with your doc...

 

[heavydutyhit]

OK..., Let me clarify.

I do not have low test levels from prior steroid use. I have been diagnosed with Secondary Hypogonadism. While Androgel is ONE of the available ways to treat my condition, everything I have read since being prescribed Androgel indicates that it is not the BEST OR IDEAL way to treat my specific condition. Medical evidence indicates the following side effects in correlation with Androgel only treatment.

-Decrease in LH and FSH levels
-Enlarged Prostate
-Increases in DHT and Estrogen levels proportional to resulting increases in testosterone levels
-Testicular atrophy with long term usage

And from individuals' personal experiences based on blood work, and the clinical trial sited within the package insert, the potential for these sides increases proportionally with the prescribed dose. This is troubling to me considering the predicted resulting test level for my individual case using the 5gm/5mg dose is only 300-425. Which is about 50% of what I should be for my age. Furthermore it is shown that individual absorption rates differ from person to person. So Androgel is hit and miss.

My prime concern is not JUST to increase my test levels, but to treat my condition as a whole. This would mean addressing my LH and FSH levels as well, which is of utmost importance to me considering it directly effects my fertility. My Urologist did NOT discuss the issue of my condition and fertility, and seemed uninterested so to speak. I have read of many bros on here experiencing the same treatment by their physicians.

From further study, ideal treatment for Secondary Hypogonadism is:

-Test Cyp injections to treat my low testosterone levels
-HCG for my low LH and FSH levels and to prevent testicular shutdown
-An Anti-E to prevent dramatic Estrogen increase
-Finasteride to prevent prostate enlargement.

Since the Chris Benoit tragedy however most doctors stay high and clear from prescribing injections, and even more so if you even look like you lift weights. Androgel, however, is a PRODUCT that is made and sold by a very large and wealthy pharmaceutical company. Doctors get kickbacks and special perks for prescribing this treatment. Just look at the amount of test each pump container actually contains, compare that with the amount in test injections, and THEN compare the prices that the different treatments cost. These days most physicians have taken on the role of nothing more than salesmen/business representatives for the mega-rich pharmaceutical companies. Androgel looks to be a prime example. Just go to the attractive Androgel website and it will be obvious how much cash these people are making off of this product.

In my opinion it is not ethical for my Dr. to prescribe me a very expensive product that will merely treat only one of the indications (low test) for my condition, and WORSEN two of the other indications involved with my condition (low LH and FSH), rather then treating me for my entire condition as a whole.

Therefore, my question was directed to those on this forum who have specific information with regards to the ideal treatment for my CONDITION. And/or anyone who has LONG TERM experience with Androgel treatment.

 

[Black Boxster]

^^^^^^^^^^

Well you have some very legit concerns bro. In the above post your are mentioning going to your urologist...have you made an appointment with and Endo?? Before I tried any OTCproducts ( sustain Alpha, TOCO-8, etc) or any e-legal products ( Ant-E's, HCH, etc) I would really discuss with a good endo.

Your are correct...most Docs are in the pockets of the pharma companies...but I truly believe if you are proactive and question everything your Doc does...they will take a more agressive approach in your tretment and therapy

Thee are many HRT and anti age clinics here in Florida that really specailize in treatment...problem is most are NOT covered by your insurance..and they charge an arm and a leg even for the intial testing. If I wasn't happy with the results from my primary Doc...or your Uro...make an appointment with an endo...it may make a huge difference in how this is approached.

 

[artificialaspirations]

OK..., Let me clarify.

I do not have low test levels from prior steroid use. I have been diagnosed with Secondary Hypogonadism. While Androgel is ONE of the available ways to treat my condition, everything I have read since being prescribed Androgel indicates that it is not the BEST OR IDEAL way to treat my specific condition. Medical evidence indicates the following side effects in correlation with Androgel only treatment.

-Decrease in LH and FSH levels
-Enlarged Prostate
-Increases in DHT and Estrogen levels proportional to resulting increases in testosterone levels
-Testicular atrophy with long term usage

And from individuals' personal experiences based on blood work, and the clinical trial sited within the package insert, the potential for these sides increases proportionally with the prescribed dose. This is troubling to me considering the predicted resulting test level for my individual case using the 5gm/5mg dose is only 300-425. Which is about 50% of what I should be for my age. Furthermore it is shown that individual absorption rates differ from person to person. So Androgel is hit and miss.

My prime concern is not JUST to increase my test levels, but to treat my condition as a whole. This would mean addressing my LH and FSH levels as well, which is of utmost importance to me considering it directly effects my fertility. My Urologist did NOT discuss the issue of my condition and fertility, and seemed uninterested so to speak. I have read of many bros on here experiencing the same treatment by their physicians.

From further study, ideal treatment for Secondary Hypogonadism is:

-Test Cyp injections to treat my low testosterone levels
-HCG for my low LH and FSH levels and to prevent testicular shutdown
-An Anti-E to prevent dramatic Estrogen increase
-Finasteride to prevent prostate enlargement.

Since the Chris Benoit tragedy however most doctors stay high and clear from prescribing injections, and even more so if you even look like you lift weights. Androgel, however, is a PRODUCT that is made and sold by a very large and wealthy pharmaceutical company. Doctors get kickbacks and special perks for prescribing this treatment. Just look at the amount of test each pump container actually contains, compare that with the amount in test injections, and THEN compare the prices that the different treatments cost. These days most physicians have taken on the role of nothing more than salesmen/business representatives for the mega-rich pharmaceutical companies. Androgel looks to be a prime example. Just go to the attractive Androgel website and it will be obvious how much cash these people are making off of this product.

In my opinion it is not ethical for my Dr. to prescribe me a very expensive product that will merely treat only one of the indications (low test) for my condition, and WORSEN two of the other indications involved with my condition (low LH and FSH), rather then treating me for my entire condition as a whole.

Therefore, my question was directed to those on this forum who have specific information with regards to the ideal treatment for my CONDITION. And/or anyone who has LONG TERM experience with Androgel treatment.

OK. I think you are a bit confused. I have secondary hypogonadism and no prior abuse of aas. This is referred to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism which means your pituitary gland is not cranking out adequate levels of fsh and lh to yield appropriate test levels. Your testicles work they're just not getting the signals to do so.

You cannot permantently increase lh and fsh or we wouldn't be in this boat. You can talk to your doctor about hmg, hcg and clomid to jump start things but results may only be temporary if you have a lazy pituitary. Those medications cannot be taken forever. And if you're not surpressed form roids, you will probably just return to your current status. It is worth a try.

I would give a sperm sample before you're on the gel for too long. Remeber to not release for 72 hours before you do this.

In response to your other concerns, dht will raise as a function of test. I imagine your estrogen levels are almost non-existant since there is not test to convert. Some estrogen is good, it will make your joints feel better. If you are taking test in physiological doses (like me) you don't have to worry about atrophy or dramatically reduced sperm counts. Also, estrogen and dht will not go through the roof if your test dosage is reasonable 100-150/wk.

I would stay away from finisteride which will obliterate your dht and will make you feel like 1/10 of a man. It is propecia that destroyed my sex drive and prompted me to get the test test. I've come off it and regained my libido thanks to the test but it took awhile.

Did you have an mri of the pituitary to make sure everything in your brain is ok?

Hang in there. Its a bit confusing at first but you have a few options:

1. do nothing
2. cycle hcg
3. go on hrt

If you have any questions shoot me a pm. I'm 28, started hrt this year, been on for 4-5 months. Just take one thing at a time and don't add other meds.

 

[thelion2005]

I saw this post and decided to make a quick reply.

I'm 65 and have done aas off and on my entire life.
For the past years I have been on HRT with a topical testo plus HGH.
I've also done cycles so I know the difference.

At your age, Drs are reluctant to prescribe aas because they can lose their license.
You have to show them consistant low numbers to even get androgel.

Even Centers, which will take your money, will not provide large dosages of injections.
They stick around 100-200 mg p/week.

I say this ..... Have a Dr prescribe you some Androgel. Have the blood test done so you have base numbers. Each 90 days, have the blood test again and see the trends. Also judge how you react to testo. Even this small amount will have a big effect. You will have few sides and a fun experience.

Then you can judge what is next.

Scan through the Longevity section. Lots of info there too.

 

[Roc86]

Test Enth + HCG + arimidex if needed = answer to your question. - secondary hypogonadism ussualy means a lazy pituitary gland --> unless your want to live on SERMs your whole life nothing @ this point will fix that. Using HCG with test will keep your boys hanging low and allow you to have kids though.

Go to a HRT clinic and youll be taken care of.

 

[mrribbit]

his test scores are 99...age doesnt matter.

Yo Hayez what's up bro? Is it me or my screen cause I can't find anywhere where I said that his level was 99 and I also said that SOME not all insurance companies have a base age that hrt can be prescribed regardless of medical condition. It's true, most insurance companies are out to fu$k you and put your doc in a new house or car but that should not be a surprise to anyone. Now I'm def not talking bout you hayez but people should take time to read the ENTIRE thread before they reply. Whos with me??? Happy belated thanksgiving to all my bros here! Now who wants to gift me a plat cause I got laid off last week?? j/k ha ha ha

 

[heavydutyhit]

unless your want to live on SERMs your whole life

Ok another stupid question, but what is SERMs exactly? And regardless of what I take i will be on my entire life, so do any of these three drugs lose effectiveness after prolonged use?

 

[HAYEZ]

Yo Hayez what's up bro? Is it me or my screen cause I can't find anywhere where I said that his level was 99 and I also said that SOME not all insurance companies have a base age that hrt can be prescribed regardless of medical condition. It's true, most insurance companies are out to fu$k you and put your doc in a new house or car but that should not be a surprise to anyone. Now I'm def not talking bout you hayez but people should take time to read the ENTIRE thread before they reply. Whos with me??? Happy belated thanksgiving to all my bros here! Now who wants to gift me a plat cause I got laid off last week?? j/k ha ha ha

he said it not you

"After my blood work came back, my thyroid levels were normal, but my testosterone came back as 99! "

doesnt matter the age if you have a problem like this the doc will medicate to fix you if they cant find the cause...there not gonna make you wait years to give you test if you obviously are not making any

 

[halfcenturian]

Ok another stupid question, but what is SERMs exactly? And regardless of what I take i will be on my entire life, so do any of these three drugs lose effectiveness after prolonged use?

WHAT? You gotta be FUCKING kidding me...You don't know what SERM's or AI's are you're no candidate for steroids, HRT, or anything stronger then creatine and NO2. Do some more reading and research so your dick doesn't fall off!

 

[heavydutyhit]

WHAT? You gotta be FUCKING kidding me...You don't know what SERM's or AI's are you're no candidate for steroids, HRT, or anything stronger then creatine and NO2. Do some more reading and research so your dick doesn't fall off!

Thank you for your very cynical, condescending, and blatantly unhelpful response. If you are going to hold a title of "Elite Mentor" maybe a more constructive response would be appropriate. Possibly a Link to a thread which explains my question since you do not feel up to answering the question yourself.

And I of course admit that I am clueless on the subject of steroids, HRT, and/or anything related to this topic considering I have been drug free for life. My lack of knowledge on this subject is the prime reason for this thread, which should be a common sense issue to most educated bros on here. I am in a spot because my Doctor is not explaining anything at all, and is having his secretary answer all of my questions (incorrectly I might add). So I came to good old EF to get some help from some of the good bros on here. And I HAVE read many threads on here. And though I have seen threads referring to SERMs and AIs, The information is at best a few "hints" as to what they MAY refer to. Excuse me for asking for some clarification. I put in 48 hrs a week at the hospital plus evening classes. Add training, sleep, and meal prep...., and you can see that my recreational time is severely limited. I do not have 24 hrs a day to sit here and do nothing but read forums all day, try to differentiate between contradictory opinions, and then end up having to post my original question anyway.


To those of you who are doing your best to help me with my situation I thank you very much. To those of you who are cynical, condescending, and blatantly unhelpful, please go spew your intellectual vomit elsewhere because with my schedule, and my newly diagnosed condition, I need your bullshit like I need a hole in the head.

Halfcenturian: Check this link out bro.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...respect-general-helping-mentality-624140.html

 

[halfcenturian]

You have 54 answers to your question!!! Mine are on page 1 where this "Novel" should have ended. We are happy to help. But either you don't like what you hear, you are not listening, or have a learning disability. This is not the Heavydutyhit show. Take the suggestions and get to work. If you want to "step outside"... PM me.

 

[heavydutyhit]

I would like to publicly apologize for flaming Halfcenturian. To his credit he sent me a PM with a very detailed explanation and it is greatly appreciated.

 

[fast_lane]

Thanks for all of the advice on here guys. I just got the test results beack yesterday morning so I was just wanting to get as much info as possible. I really appreciate the supp offer needto. I will more than likely try your advice/offer later on. First things first, I am going to see an Endocrinologist to get everything checked out before I decide what I am going to do.

It just really sucks as a natural bodybuilder you know? I mean as a bodybuilder I have been tempted by steroids my entire career, but have never pulled the trigger because I didn't want to shut down my natural production. And now @ 28, it looks to these doctors like I have been juicing for years. It really fucking sucks. I should know when my appointment and shit is all going to take place by this evening. I will keep you good bros posted, and again I appreciate all of the responses here.

Hey bro u catched my attention with ur case,i'm trying to find an answer to ur situation and it can be alot of reasons y ur natural test is so low at age 28,and i'm just guessing here and trying to find a solution and reason for this... But as a bodybuilder i'm shure u heard about ur natural serum test gets shut down the hours following a big work-out?I dont know a much impact this can influence a blood draw...But when did u make ur bloodwork done?The day following a work-out?Maybe u should try to take a 1 week break from workin out before next blood draw and see what happens...Good luck!!

 

[heavydutyhit]

Hey bro u catched my attention with ur case,i'm trying to find an answer to ur situation and it can be alot of reasons y ur natural test is so low at age 28,and i'm just guessing here and trying to find a solution and reason for this... But as a bodybuilder i'm shure u heard about ur natural serum test gets shut down the hours following a big work-out?I dont know a much impact this can influence a blood draw...But when did u make ur bloodwork done?The day following a work-out?Maybe u should try to take a 1 week break from workin out before next blood draw and see what happens...Good luck!!

Thanks for the concern bro. I thought of this myself and took a week off from training after the initial reading of 99 test level. I didn't do cardio or anything for that week. Just ate regular diet and tried to catch up on some sleep. After that week of rest My Urologist ordered another blood test. The second test result was a bit higher @ 202, but still WAY below what it should be for my age. Wish I did know the cause. My Dr. is more concerned with just treating the low test level rather than my condition as a whole. It also seems as though he doesn't give shit about finding the cause because with my size I guarantee he just assumes steroid use.

 

[artificialaspirations]

you need an mri of the pituitary if you haven't had one yet.

 

[Varga]

Def...got to get that MRI. In about 90% of the cases it will show nothing...but is the 10% you need to worry about.

I went through the same thing and I was diagnosed with a lazy pituitary. It's no big deal, you stressing for nothing. It happens and is nothing you can do to stop it. The reason docs are not too concerned about it is that if you dont have a tumor or lesion there is nothing you can do about it. Yea you can take some clomid or HCG but it's temporary.
All I take now is Test cyp 100mg every week and few shots of HCG every few months which got my life back and it's just great.
Hang in there is not that bad

 

[halfcenturian]

Hey Bro, Hope you're keeping your chin up.
I would def get an MRI. May be inconclusive but they show everything. It will buy you some peace of mind. Whatever the situation, it's out of your hand's So let the Dr.s and God take it from here. You are a good bro!