to me anything over 400-600 mgs of tren, especially when running other gear is totally pointless unless your trying to compete at the national level. I am 37 yrs old, still use gear but have a lot more respect for it now. Has anyone ever got their blood work while on a cycle ? Most dr.'s consider the results " off the charts" with orals and strong androgen cycles. Just because your not seeing side effects dooes not mean your blood work is good.i and have tried low dose cycles and high dose cycles once you go over 1 gram a week your gains really dont change that much. With my 12 years of steroid use i have also found it very practical to do shorter 6-8 weeks cycles as well becuse most people normally plateau's out around this time period.