Alternative HPTA Restorative Therapies

[me2dammit]

Dam

Now you tell me, I only got like a week to try to get some androgel. Shit sounds good.

 

[kbrkbr]

Fonz, sorry to bother you with more questions, but could you please expand on androgel. How much do you use? When do you start it? How long do you use it? Thanks, bro.

 

[SOLID]

HCG is garbage too.

Androgel is definately the way to go.

As I said before it has minimal impact on LH, therefore
your testes can recover while you're ON androgel.

Fonz

How can you say that HCG is crap? I one's testicle's are shrunken HCG is the only substance to bring them back to par ASAP. If your balls are not up to size they will not be able to produce as they would if they were up to normal size. Nothing can accomplish this like HCG!

 

[Nelson Montana]

HCG isn't the magic bullet some people make it out to be , but it isn't crap. The cosmetic benifits alone (testicular size) makes it worth it to most guys.

AndroGel would be perfect to use in the final stages of a cycle -- a normal cycle, not this 16 week shit -- before the testicles atrophy. Once atrophy occurs the few hours a night when the body doesn't have exogenous T won't be enough to get them back. Incidentally, AndroGel is also a good way to start back up again. But don't expect big gains from it. It's used for replacement purposes and equals about 200mgs of cyp a week. (I know the numbers don't line up, but that's about right).
Unfortunately, it's also expensive -- about 6 bucks for a daily dosage. And don't expect to find it on the black market. I wouldn't think there's a big demand for it -- yet.

Hmmm, IP AndroGel.......




.

 

[Fonz]

HCG is temporary.

Anyways, here you go guys.(thanks to Mr. BMJ)

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No. 10 4447-4451
Copyright © 2002 by The Endocrine Society

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLINICAL CASE SEMINAR

"The Novel Use of Very High Doses of Cabergoline and a Combination of Testosterone and an Aromatase Inhibitor in the Treatment of a Giant Prolactinoma"

Mary P. Gillam, Stewart Middler, Daniel J. Freed and Mark E. Molitch

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine (M.P.G., M.E.M.), Northwestern University, The Feinberg Medical School, Chicago, Illinois 60611; and Cedars-Sinai Medical Center (S.M.), University of California at Los Angeles School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California 90048

Abstract

Most prolactinomas respond rapidly to low doses of dopamine agonists. Occasionally, stepwise increases in doses of these agents are needed to achieve gradual prolactin (PRL) reductions. Approximately 50% of treated men remain hypogonadal, yet testosterone replacement may stimulate hyperprolactinemia.

A 34-yr-old male with a pituitary macroadenoma was found to have a PRL level of 10,362 µg/liter and testosterone level of 3.5 nmol/liter. Eleven months of dopamine agonist therapy at standard doses lowered PRL levels to 299 µg/liter. Subsequent stepwise increases in cabergoline (3 mg daily) further lowered PRL levels to 71 µg/liter, but hypogonadism persisted. Initiation of testosterone replacement resulted in a rise and discontinuation in a fall of PRL levels. Aromatization of exogenous testosterone to estradiol and subsequent estrogen-stimulated PRL release was suspected. Concomitant use of cabergoline with the aromatase inhibitor anastrozole after resuming testosterone replacement resulted in the maintenance of testosterone levels and restoration of normal sexual function, without increasing PRL. Ultimately, further reduction in PRL on this therapy permitted endogenous testosterone production. Thus, novel pharmacological maneuvers may permit successful medical treatment of some patients with invasive macroprolactinomas.

BMJ

Fonz

 

[Silent Method]

I'm not looking for conjecture and opinions here. Theory is fine, but please back it up.

Fonz, please describe the physiology behind your prescribed recovery therapy. Why does each component work. Why don't other components, HCG as you mentionaed, work well?

 

[SCOTTY-TWO-HOTTY]

I've used HCG following my past 2 cycles, its tried and true as far as I'm concerned.

Here's the post cycle regimen I follow...

4 weeks of Nolva(20mg/ED)concurrent with HCG immediately following cycle. I make an effort to finish the cycle with fast acting drugs, so I can hop on the ancilliaries quick. I know others will flame me for this, but I crank the HCG 5000IU/E7D for 3 weeks(15 000IU total).

Following my last shot of HCG, I'll continue the Nolva for another week. Then I'll run a month of Clomid... 2 weeks at 100mg/ED and 2 weeks at 50mg/ED

I've used this regimen twice before and its worked AMAZING! The first time I used it, it was following a 5 month cycle that ended May 2001. I kept everything from my cycle and remained nice and hard indefinitely. I used it again in April 2002 with the same results. That time, I had a post cycle medical examination. The Physician pulled all the levels you can imagine and gave my Testicles a very rough examination. All my levels were good to go and he remarked that there appeared to be no atrophy with my boys.

I'm post cycle as of today... I'll be running it just like that for 2 full months.

 

[SOLID]

HCG is temporary.


Fonz

can you elaborate? Your balls will not atrophy again...so I don't know what you mean by that statement.

 

[bigAragorn]

I didn't mean to sound cryptic. The point is, Clomid kinda blows. And the pros know this so they don't bother wih it. People will say; I used it and had no crash!" Well, how do you know you would have had a crash without it? It's like saying homeopathic medicines "lessen" the severity of an illness. How can you gaudge this???

The bottom line here? There is no free ride. You can't jump from one drug to the next and expect to get away scott free and kep all your gains in a natural (actually supressed) state. That's why I've always advocted smaller dosages and shorter cycles, but everyone wants to be big yesterday -- they overdo it and then whine when it's time to pay the piper.

So what's the answer? HCG will definetely cusion the big blow. (Use the the way Dan Duchaine suggested -- smaller dosages over the course of a couple of days instead of the recommended 2000IU hit a week for 2 weeks) ) And yes, AndroGel is great because it provides a natural peak and dip to T levels. But sooner or later you have to come off for good and besides nutrients, some herbs and a lot of sleep, you just have to dig in and deal with it.

not at all bro.....and i agree to an extent.

But due to my own individual research i found clomid to be the drug of choice for my particular post cycle regimen.....( i didnt want to be a guinea pig and not run a proper post cycle ). I just thought that stating because the "pros" dont use it= choice is obsolete, was a bit rash.....

Fonz on the other hand was providing some interesting findings with regards to its worth post cycle....

uh buuuuuump

 

[SOLID]

Ok, I'm going to post this link for those of you who actually time the time to do your research. I'm posting this because I think that it is a good read and it has a wide variety of views on different perceptions of post cycle recovery. I do not just listen to what joeblow says and take his advice as the holy grail.


here you go