Aifm Rash Poll

[MR. BMJ]

No...because it still has the peak, the onset and then decline....transdermals provide basically a sustained release of the drug that's unwavering...so...follow this guy's reasoning here...the HUGE half life plus the HUGE sustained delivery...allows no time when there isn't a dose of AI constantly killing aromatase...and that becomes dangerous, in his opinion, because there's no "let up" as with an oral...it just has a huge halflife and a really long sustained time release = recipe for disaster. NOW add in that ATD can have anti androgenic effects? I'd avoid it like crazy...

Anthony, can you please comment on the following stated by Macro:

"in triceptors case (the person that anthony does not actually care about but is trying to use his unfortunate situation to bolster his erroneous conclusions) he was using what he recconed to be 60mg per day DELIVERED of ATD. Thats 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose. He did this for 3-4 months without taking an AAS."

Is this correct? If so, how can he state any validity to a transdermal ATD product if it were taken 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose?

BMJ

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Triceptor did not make the statements that anthony attributes to him. He beleived that heavy transdermal use as opposed to oral use caused his problems. COMPARING TRANSDERMAL ATD vs. ORAL ATD (with its poor uptake and short half life). Triceptor was familiar with transdermal technology but not aromatase inhibitors. Which is how he ended up with problems. Transdermal ATD is going to have the SAME impact on aromatase as extended half life drugs like exemestane, arimidex and letrozole. At high doses without exogenous AAS there are going to be problems (even with exogenous AAS doses of that magnitude will cause problems)

Basically he would have encountered the same problems with a heavy oral dose of letro or exemestane, even arimidex. You cannot use heavy doses of any aromatase inhibitor even when taking AAS, taking such doses without AAS, its amazing that it took so long for him to have problems.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I think that the proposals to take away the AIFM product is complete and utter bullshit!!! Of all things to bitch about, I can't believe that this is a basis for argument at such a level pointed out here lately. I know people that have had skin sensitivity to Yohimburn, over the counter creams, other competitor's yohimbine products (Avant Labs), toothpaste, aloe vera lotion, sunscreens, body soaps, hair spray, MILK, eggs, peanuts, etc.....

This does not necessitate grounds for eliminating these products. Hell some people are sensitive to toilet paper when they wipe their asses. Maybe we should all throw a fit and petition to have this taken away too?

I know plenty of people, even some who are scared to post here at elite or any board for that matter, about liquid products giving upset stomachs, loss of taste, numbness of the tongue (for many hours on end), sore throats, etc.....Should this be grounds for taking AG guys off the board because some people are sensitive to the alcohols and solvents in their products?

NO! Hell no! Just like I am sticking up for AIFM, i'd do the same for ANY liquid 'supplement' out there. WHY? Because they work, and are an easy cheap way to obtain effective products....aka AG guys. We can't just walk over to Wal-Mart and buy this over-the-counter in many parts of the world....well, at least the USA (without a Rx of course). This is still underground marketing folks...just like AAS discussions that are brought on these boards pushing many alternative routes for underground and pharm grade products (ie...AAS).

Jesus, come on people! A skin rash? This is a steroid bodybuilding board, and every AAS has side effects. Every drug has side effects. Every supplement has side effects. To those steroids that accelerate hair loss, gyno, acne/backne, elevated liver enzymes, etc....to the people that are sensitive & genetically dispositioned to them, DOES this necessitate that we should ban talk of all these products from being discussed or used on Elite Fitness???? Thinks about it....we might as well close shop here. I'm sure all those people on HRT or with HIV/AIDS would be happy about that?

How about the handful of idiots out there who will not read the disclaimer on a liquid arimidex bottle and injects it into his body only to receive an abscess, which causes this person to go to the EMERGENCY ROOM? Seriously, if this were to happen, I can guarantee that I, as well as any knowledgeable person on this board, would NOT be blaming any research company for this mishap. And since Ulter/Macro and AG guys & Mr. X are the topic of discussion, I can guarantee that both Ulter and Macro would do the same, even though it is a competitor. It clearly mentions not to inject this stuff....BUT, and every body knows this, there ARE IDIOTS that do the opposite. They should not ruin it for the many people that enjoy or beneifit from using AG products.

Now, with that being said, the following has been ignored in regards to AIFM:

"Warnings: this product is an aromatase inhibitor, it suppresses oestrogen production; It can and will have androgenic side effects as well as the common side effects of oestrogen suppression. It may cause skin rash. If you develop a rash discontiue use and return the product for a refund."

Folks, it says it right there. This should not be ignored. It clearly states that a skin rash may be a side-effect of this product.

Guess what, you can get your monay back. Honostly, what more can be done???? Do you people who had a negative RxN to this stuff really care that much to spoil it for all the other people who DO NOT have a bad RxN from it, and who actually benefit from it tremendously? This stuff works big time people! Please do not try and ruin it for those of us that love its effects. Besides the skin rash there are no other people documenting any other types of side effects from it. None that aren't common with any other AI that is commonly used or PROMOTED on this board.

ACTION has taken place to better the formulation! The original testing formula had the Linalool taken out. I believe this has helped with some cases?

In fact, it needs to be stated, of the people who are complaining of rashes, which formulation that they are taking. Maybe those who are getting rashes are still using the original version before it was modified????? Could this be a possibility??? Of course, just like any topical formula, there WILL still be people sensitive to any product. If some of you people are expecting anything to be 100% side-effect free, good luck, you are gonna be wasting your time. Hell, water and vegetables these days cannot be trusted without somebody bitching that they got cancer from them.

This needs to be cleared up as well.......TO those people that asked for a refund, did you get your money back? I have seen Ulter many times on threads state that he was sorry for some peoples unfortunate skin RxN's, and referred them to get their money back. The man has offered to give you your money back...which means he will eat the cost. Did you do as he mentioned to do? Was he rude? Did you not get your money back? People, if you did not like the product due to rash problems, PLEASE do yourself a favor and get your money back. Geez, can this be stressed enough???

Why should he be slandered??? I have seen him (as well as Mr. X AND Macrophage69Alpha) help MANY people.

This isn't a slam, well maybe to a degree, but with much respect, to ItlnStln.......Bro, CHILL already with the drama. Everybody gets your point. Did you even try the product??? Ulter and Macro are good people bro. A skin rash isn't the end of the world and it definately isn't means to have a product "pulled" for those MANY of people who actually benefit from it. If it gives you a rash, get your damn money back. I really want to believe that you are doing this for the good of the board and its members, but I have a hard time believing this. It's cool that you want your voice heard, as should everybody's opinion's that are psted, but man......Am I correct that you have only been here since December of 2005? Am I seeing this correctly? Unless you used a previous handle on here before, you cannot possibly grasp many of the members roles and what some of them have done for the good of this board in a 3-month period!!!

That's all i'm gonna write in this post, but i'm gonna add another one after this showing my HONOST opinion of the AIFM product and how I reacted to it. IT will be a post that I put up awhile ago on a different board stating how I reacted to the product. This is also before all the drama that has now circulated around it here at Elite. It was posted at another board, which isn't exactly 'friends' with the higher up people of elite....I will refrain from posting the site out of respect for elite. Many will know which board to go to if they really want a reference of it.

BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

Well, since this is supposed to be a poll for AIFM, I will follow suit and add my thoughts. People can take this however they want. I'm gonna vote "no" since I can use it now without problems by using a different site of application. If people want to fuss about it and say that it should be a "YES," then fine. I don't really care. You will see my HONOST experience with this product. I'll let people decide for themselves whether or not it is something for them. I will add an update following afterward, as it was written awhile ago on another board....NOT AnabolicFitness.

BMJ
******************************************
Here it is:

I'm not a mod here, but have visited many sites for over 10 years. I am also a Mod at AF (Yes, Ulter's site). You can take my testimony however you want, and i'm not scared to put whatever reputation I have on the line (no pun intended).

I have been taking 1200-1400mg's of test propionate per week (***) for about 3 weeks. Usually even with prop at that dose, I would get bloated, even moreso since I am trying to bulk and carbs are a lot higher than normal (as well as other things ie...Na+ and fat). I am gonna add in some Anadrol here soon (pyrimid 50mg to 150mg, etc) as well.

I have been taking the AIFM aromatase inhibitor by AF with great results. I take 2 squirts in the morning and two squirts at night before I go to bed. So far, my bloatedness from bulking has not increased at all, in fact I probably wouldn't have any if I were to clean up my diet a little bit. I have been taking this stuff for about 10 days now. I really wasn't expecting it to be this effective. I cannot believe something like this is actually legal.

"I feel like I am on Deca...."

LOL...okay, that was a joke for all you old Buttplug vets out there who know what I am talking about...for anybody who is illiterate, I was just joking about the deca comment....

I AM gyno prone...due to many years of high dbol use with and without AI's and Nolvadex...yes it finally caught up with me. I can get sensitive nips with test as well. Usually, anytime I take 600mg of test I start getting itchy nips with maybe a small pea sized lump under each titty until I switch up my cycle. So far with TEST only, I have had NO problems with my current dosage, which normally I would.

THE ULTIMATE TEST: The ultimate test for me will be to take not only my test, but also dbol (stacked with the test) as well since usually for most, an AI AND Nolvadex are needed to prevent gyno symptoms (due to the strogenic nature of Dbol). After I get my Anadrol and take it for 6-7 weeks, I am gonna take a 2-3 week break from orals (still taking test though) and take some Tyler's Liver Detox and Milk thistle. After that I am starting my cycle of Highj dose test/dbol/NPP. I will keep everybody posted on how that goes, as well as my experience leading up to it.

Too be honost, I have grown 2.5 inches extra on my penis, but didn't want anybody to think.....okay, okay, I am joking again...lol. Yes that was a lie. Just trying to make yall laugh a little.

Really though, I DID have an allergic reaction when applying AIFM to my forearms. Really bad, and it lasted up to 2-3 hours after application. Itched like a SOB as well. That didn't really make me too happy at night either.

Problem solved....I have been putting it on the shin's of my legs and have had ZERO negative reactions. Just thought i'd mention this just in case somebody experienced similar reactions and was just gonna toss the bottle. It absorbs quickly as well, so when I put on my socks, it is not a factor. Also, one squirt is a very small amount, so it isn't like you are drowning yourself. In fact, I almost thought I had a defective pump at first because it was so little of an amount.

I hope this in no way makes it sound as if I am being bias towards a friends product, 'cause that is definately not the case. I guess I cannot really prove my honosty more than just giving an 'honost' testimony. I don't get benefits from this either. I don't even take the Mod benefit when ordering supplements form AF because I usually forget about it. I am just like everybody else in that I believe that 98% of supplements suck or are worthless and overpriced and hyped. To date the only products from AF I have used are Tyler's, Yohimburn, AIFM, and just recently Sesapure. These have all lived up to their hype. I haven't even tried Glucorell or Thermorexin/Levorex, etc....which are probably the most bought supp's they have.

Anyway, you can believe me or not, but I am a happy customer. When it comes to an AI product, I wouldn't fuck around because peoples 'tits' are on the line (as well as money obviously). I take this very serious, as should anybody.....gyno sucks. If I was gonna just hype a product for personal benefits to rip people off, it would not be this one.

BMJ
**************************************
I was then asked by another member the following:

"I notice you say you take that and Nolv- is this right?? Also I don't get bloat from Prop- Just trying to make sure I get it right. Also are you sayng this works better than A-dex or Letro??"

My Response:

a.) I am taking AIFM by itself. However, in the past I have always used an AI like Arimidex or Letrozole and keeped Nolvadex on the side as a safety measure. Now, with Dbol, I usually just run Nolva from the beginning to the end of the cycle with whatever AI I am also using at the time. For research reasons, I am not using Nolvadex at this time because I want to see how the AIFM does on its own with a large Test dosage. If needed, I will post up to let everybody know. When I take dbol here in a few months with Prop and NPP, I am gonna run the AIFM by itself with that cycle and see how it goes. If I need to add in Nolvadex, then I will. I'll post that so reader's can see.

b.) Not sure what you meant by the prop (you or me)? Just in case, I usually do not get much bloat from Test Prop at all unless I am over 1gm per week. I also get less gyno symptoms from it as well (compared to Enanthate or Cyp). However, I had a shitload on hand, so I am just taking it to save money, plus I have some Synovex on order as well. Regardless, I do get itchy nips and added bloat from even propionate above 1gm per week, and by now, I would be all bloated with nipple sensitivity (I am 3 weeks into my propionate at over 1gm). I started the AIFM about 1.5 weeks after starting my propionate.

c.) Usually with Arimidex, I would have to take at least 1mg per 750-1gm of test. Sometimes more if I were using other compounds in conjunction with my test (ie...dbol, Eq, etc). Now bear in mind, I have only been using the AIFM for close to 10 days, so you may want to read other testimonials from users that have been using it longer than myself. That being said, I think/feel thus far.........drum roll please............THE AIFM AT 2 SQUIRTS IN AM/PM IS EQUAL OR STRONGER THAN 1mg OF ARIMIDEX/d. I can easily say this, plus I am even dryer than when I am using Arimidex. Arimidex is awesome in weak cycles, but sort of sucks in heavy androgen cycles. I think the optimal dose for some people using Arimidex is at 2mg/d, which can be expensive depending on the route you buy it. Hope I don't get a lot of flack from people that have a vested interest in the sales of Arimidex....just reporting my honost experience here.

Letrozole: Letrozole is THE strongest AI I have ever taken, bar none. It is so damn strong that it cuts my sex drive way down if I use too much. This compound can be used with success with a little trial and error. I can usually take it EOD at half the usual dosage that some use and still get awesome results. Now, I believe that Aromasin is a better route, but more expensive. Also, Aromasin and AIFM are also Suicidal AI's, so they are a little different category. AIFM is more like Aromasin, but I have yet to use Aromasin due to cost factors. However, even Ulter will state this, Aromasin is probably the best AI (Holy Grail) of AI's available at this time. Sometimes the 'strongest' AI is not always the 'best' AI. If you have a cheap route for Aromasin, then you probably do not need AIFM. However, AIFM is cheap and legal and very effective, so everybody will need to do what best fits them.

So to answer whether or not it is stronger than Letrozole?...Probably not, but then if I am not getting any bloat or nipple sensitivity from AIFM, then there is probably no need to really compare. I think that Aromasin and AIFM are probably 'better' in the long run than letrozole though. I look at Letrozole as a last resort basically.

Again, i'll continue to report any changes or whatnot as I take this product. I think the important thing to maybe remember here is that whether or not people decide to use it, it is a good thing to have around from a legal standpoint to fall back upon.

Hope I didn't stray from your Q's and aswered them like you wanted.

BMJ

*****************************

UPDATE 03/18/06:

I have since been on Anadrol up to 150mg's/d. with no problems as well.

I have added it to the tops of my feet with no problems.

Therefore, YES, I did get a rash from applying it to my forearms (both outer and inner sides). However, NO, I did not get a rash since I have applied it to the shins of my legs and tops of my feet. I can actually apply it every time on my shins and not have a RxN.

Therefore, maybe as a suggestion For AIFM users, as well as Ulter/macro to add to the disclaimer....maybe something added will help....such as:

"Since skin sensitivity and rash may develop, users should apply a small amount on their skin to test whether or not any negative problems arise. It should be noted that if forearm sensitivity arises, the user may want to try the shins of their legs and tops of their feet to see if the same problem will present itself. Do not use a large amount for the first application of each site. If a problem arises at a certain site of application do not use again in the same area."

Maybe add that clean/sanitary skin is important as well.

I'm edumacated, but will admit that somebody with better english skills can write a better worded 'caution/disclaimer' than myself.

BMJ

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Triceptor did not make the statements that anthony attributes to him. He beleived that heavy transdermal use as opposed to oral use caused his problems. COMPARING TRANSDERMAL ATD vs. ORAL ATD (with its poor uptake and short half life). Triceptor was familiar with transdermal technology but not aromatase inhibitors. Which is how he ended up with problems. Transdermal ATD is going to have the SAME impact on aromatase as extended half life drugs like exemestane, arimidex and letrozole. At high doses without exogenous AAS there are going to be problems (even with exogenous AAS doses of that magnitude will cause problems)

Basically he would have encountered the same problems with a heavy oral dose of letro or exemestane, even arimidex. You cannot use heavy doses of any aromatase inhibitor even when taking AAS, taking such doses without AAS, its amazing that it took so long for him to have problems.

Triceptor certainly did, and he did so on the phone with me. IT is inconceivable that you would actually say otherwise. He's someone I've spoken to many times. The statement you are making is an absurdity, basically claiming one of my friends and I did not have a certain conversation that you have no knowledge of at all.

Why should he be slandered???

I suppose it's not very professional, but I'll offer up my personal feelings on why he ought to be slandered:

Because he did it to me.

In a series of now deleted posts, Ulter and Macro sought to defame me, and personally attacked everything about me (my career, my ahtletic abilities, etc...), and spend several posts slandering me, and editing my posts. Ultimately, editing my posts was not enough, and Macro banned me and took away several of my abilities here.

I am, from what I can see, the only published steroid author here, and not only am I working on something for the site, I also answer 100% of my e-mails and PMs as well as answering every single thread where I was specifically mentioned in any posts or the title. Every single one. I've chimed in for every thread where I was PM'ed a link. Every Single one.

But when I spoke out against AIFM, I was banned. For no other reason than speaking out against what I feel to be a poor product.Does banning me seem like a move that someone who is concerned with this board or the members would do?

I wrote a book on Anabolics, which is #3 in it's category on Amazon, Period.

And I'm here answering questions for free.
Am I the sort of person who needs to be banned? It EF better off w/o me?

I'd say that the members ought to ask themselves if banning me is good for them or the board, and in addition, if it's not, then why would Macro have banned me?

And if he does things which are not good for the board or the members, should the members patronize his buisness? And if he does, indeed, not do things for the benefit of the members instead of himself, is it a far leap to think that he's brought an unsafe and ineffective product to the market?

I think not. And I think banning me proved it. Fortunately, there are some mods here who actually do care, and are here for free. But he isn't one of them.

 

[drrman]

I think that the proposals to take away the AIFM product is complete and utter bullshit!!! Of all things to bitch about, I can't believe that this is a basis for argument at such a level pointed out here lately. I know people that have had skin sensitivity to Yohimburn, over the counter creams, other competitor's yohimbine products (Avant Labs), toothpaste, aloe vera lotion, sunscreens, body soaps, hair spray, MILK, eggs, peanuts, etc.....

This does not necessitate grounds for eliminating these products. Hell some people are sensitive to toilet paper when they wipe their asses. Maybe we should all throw a fit and petition to have this taken away too?

I know plenty of people, even some who are scared to post here at elite or any board for that matter, about liquid products giving upset stomachs, loss of taste, numbness of the tongue (for many hours on end), sore throats, etc.....Should this be grounds for taking AG guys off the board because some people are sensitive to the alcohols and solvents in their products?

NO! Hell no! Just like I am sticking up for AIFM, i'd do the same for ANY liquid 'supplement' out there. WHY? Because they work, and are an easy cheap way to obtain effective products....aka AG guys. We can't just walk over to Wal-Mart and buy this over-the-counter in many parts of the world....well, at least the USA (without a Rx of course). This is still underground marketing folks...just like AAS discussions that are brought on these boards pushing many alternative routes for underground and pharm grade products (ie...AAS).

Jesus, come on people! A skin rash? This is a steroid bodybuilding board, and every AAS has side effects. Every drug has side effects. Every supplement has side effects. To those steroids that accelerate hair loss, gyno, acne/backne, elevated liver enzymes, etc....to the people that are sensitive & genetically dispositioned to them, DOES this necessitate that we should ban talk of all these products from being discussed or used on Elite Fitness???? Thinks about it....we might as well close shop here. I'm sure all those people on HRT or with HIV/AIDS would be happy about that?

How about the handful of idiots out there who will not read the disclaimer on a liquid arimidex bottle and injects it into his body only to receive an abscess, which causes this person to go to the EMERGENCY ROOM? Seriously, if this were to happen, I can guarantee that I, as well as any knowledgeable person on this board, would NOT be blaming any research company for this mishap. And since Ulter/Macro and AG guys & Mr. X are the topic of discussion, I can guarantee that both Ulter and Macro would do the same, even though it is a competitor. It clearly mentions not to inject this stuff....BUT, and every body knows this, there ARE IDIOTS that do the opposite. They should not ruin it for the many people that enjoy or beneifit from using AG products.

Now, with that being said, the following has been ignored in regards to AIFM:

"Warnings: this product is an aromatase inhibitor, it suppresses oestrogen production; It can and will have androgenic side effects as well as the common side effects of oestrogen suppression. It may cause skin rash. If you develop a rash discontiue use and return the product for a refund."

Folks, it says it right there. This should not be ignored. It clearly states that a skin rash may be a side-effect of this product.

Guess what, you can get your monay back. Honostly, what more can be done???? Do you people who had a negative RxN to this stuff really care that much to spoil it for all the other people who DO NOT have a bad RxN from it, and who actually benefit from it tremendously? This stuff works big time people! Please do not try and ruin it for those of us that love its effects. Besides the skin rash there are no other people documenting any other types of side effects from it. None that aren't common with any other AI that is commonly used or PROMOTED on this board.

ACTION has taken place to better the formulation! The original testing formula had the Linalool taken out. I believe this has helped with some cases?

In fact, it needs to be stated, of the people who are complaining of rashes, which formulation that they are taking. Maybe those who are getting rashes are still using the original version before it was modified????? Could this be a possibility??? Of course, just like any topical formula, there WILL still be people sensitive to any product. If some of you people are expecting anything to be 100% side-effect free, good luck, you are gonna be wasting your time. Hell, water and vegetables these days cannot be trusted without somebody bitching that they got cancer from them.

This needs to be cleared up as well.......TO those people that asked for a refund, did you get your money back? I have seen Ulter many times on threads state that he was sorry for some peoples unfortunate skin RxN's, and referred them to get their money back. The man has offered to give you your money back...which means he will eat the cost. Did you do as he mentioned to do? Was he rude? Did you not get your money back? People, if you did not like the product due to rash problems, PLEASE do yourself a favor and get your money back. Geez, can this be stressed enough???

Why should he be slandered??? I have seen him (as well as Mr. X AND Macrophage69Alpha) help MANY people.

This isn't a slam, well maybe to a degree, but with much respect, to ItlnStln.......Bro, CHILL already with the drama. Everybody gets your point. Did you even try the product??? Ulter and Macro are good people bro. A skin rash isn't the end of the world and it definately isn't means to have a product "pulled" for those MANY of people who actually benefit from it. If it gives you a rash, get your damn money back. I really want to believe that you are doing this for the good of the board and its members, but I have a hard time believing this. It's cool that you want your voice heard, as should everybody's opinion's that are psted, but man......Am I correct that you have only been here since December of 2005? Am I seeing this correctly? Unless you used a previous handle on here before, you cannot possibly grasp many of the members roles and what some of them have done for the good of this board in a 3-month period!!!

That's all i'm gonna write in this post, but i'm gonna add another one after this showing my HONOST opinion of the AIFM product and how I reacted to it. IT will be a post that I put up awhile ago on a different board stating how I reacted to the product. This is also before all the drama that has now circulated around it here at Elite. It was posted at another board, which isn't exactly 'friends' with the higher up people of elite....I will refrain from posting the site out of respect for elite. Many will know which board to go to if they really want a reference of it.

BMJ

Probably the best post on this entire thread....great points.......

 

[Ulter]

Same bullshit different day Anthony. And your ego is hilarious. Before you yanked the contents of your book off the boards and Nandi your life's only accomplishment was what? Chemist? Scientist? Researcher? Any Science degrees? No, a professional rugby player. Those are your credentials for this book. And you're attacking Macro who holds 3 degrees including a PhD? Wow, put a guys name on a book and he's a genius, never mind who actually wrote it.

You weren't SUSPENDED for speaking out against AIFM. You were SUSPENDED for name calling and the WAY you spoke out. The posts went from civil to 3rd grade and were deleted. Just like Mr X does to those who do that to him. Mods can give a member a "time out" as George calls it, you got one, get over it.

The book that has your name as a contributor is number #3 in it's category? Out of how many?
It's rank is #71,311 Translation: It's barely moving
The contents of this book were mostly taken from the AS boards or Nandi.
Do the people here NEED Anthony Roberts? No, there is nothing revolutionary in your book that isn't already here or at Nandi's board. You want to answer posts? Great, thanks for contributing. But you haven't been on this board in years and we all managed to get along fine. Which of course shows what a total hypocrite you are saying Macro isn't here for free. Neither are you.
Macro's contributed more to this community over the last 6 years than you and your plagiarized book will ever contribute.

Defaming you? No, I know who you are. I know where you got your book contents. I know you have not credentials what so ever. That's not defaming you. It's telling it like it is.

 

[brooklynheight]

Probably the best post on this entire thread....great points.......

cosign

 

[needtogetaas]

wow you people babble on way to much.

 

[MR. BMJ]

"Triceptor certainly did, and he did so on the phone with me. IT is inconceivable that you would actually say otherwise. He's someone I've spoken to many times. The statement you are making is an absurdity, basically claiming one of my friends and I did not have a certain conversation that you have no knowledge of at all."

Thanks for replying Anthony. However, you still did not reply to the question I asked, and the question why this AIFM/topical ATD thread is up. Can you PLEASE answer or comment on the following:

""in triceptors case (the person that anthony does not actually care about but is trying to use his unfortunate situation to bolster his erroneous conclusions) he was using what he recconed to be 60mg per day DELIVERED of ATD. Thats 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose. He did this for 3-4 months without taking an AAS."

Anthony, is this true or not? If it is, then people need to take triceptors experience with a grain of salt as taking anything at such a large dose will probably have a negative effect.




"I suppose it's not very professional, but I'll offer up my personal feelings on why he ought to be slandered: Because he did it to me."

"In a series of now deleted posts, Ulter and Macro sought to defame me, and personally attacked everything about me (my career, my ahtletic abilities, etc...), and spend several posts slandering me, and editing my posts. Ultimately, editing my posts was not enough, and Macro banned me and took away several of my abilities here."

If you can put up a separate post that will debate your side of the topical ATD case, then I think that would be cool. Have somebody monitor it, an honost moderator (Is there any these days?...lol, that was a joke.). Refrain from bad-mouthing (both sides included). Have a straight up debate. The second you feel it has been modified, state so. Have the moderators post up what has been deleted. After each of your posts, save the original so that it will be on file. If it has modified, post or have somebody post what was really stated. I think that if this can be set-up fairly for both sides of the debate, it will help out tremendously for the board.

In light of Ulter, maybe you guys are not the best of friends lately, but he has given praise to you on this site many of times. So, aside from the current AIFM bickering, you cannot totally state he hasn't stated anything good about you.




"I am, from what I can see, the only published steroid author here, and not only am I working on something for the site, I also answer 100% of my e-mails and PMs as well as answering every single thread where I was specifically mentioned in any posts or the title. Every single one. I've chimed in for every thread where I was PM'ed a link. Every Single one."

That is kind of arrogant, just because you are NOW an author. I think every body is thankful that you are 'going out of your way' to help others. I really do not think that is a debate. You are an asset to this board. However, I know plenty of non-authors here that have helped many people. You have stated that you have dropped everything to put forth your new career, you have to expect that you will be having to answer a lot of these types of questions. However, you were not posting on this board very much before your book came out. Are you ONLY here now to get your name out in hopes to sale more of your book copies. Elite is a very large site, and it can generate anybody in the BB and fitness industry a lot of money. That is not a bad thing. I want you to make your money. I have a ton of respect for anybody that will put his name and reputation on the line for our lifestyle and for the greater health of the public.





"But when I spoke out against AIFM, I was banned. For no other reason than speaking out against what I feel to be a poor product.Does banning me seem like a move that someone who is concerned with this board or the members would do?"

No, you are correct. Nobody should be banned for what you are stating, if in fact this is the case. However, you have to expect that posts will be deleted or removed or edited if bad mouthing is involved no matter who is involved. I'm not saying you are not getting the short-end of the stick, but it will happen. You know this yourself as a long time board member both here and at BB4life, etc. I've seen posts about AG guys get deleted, as well as other board sponsors. Nobody is gonna believe anybody when it comes to this "Yes you did"...."No I didn't"...."Yes you did"......"No I didn't" responses. This needs to be dropped unless there is anyway to totally prove anything. Until then, even by speaking up for yourself, people are not gonna know who to believe unless actual proof can be brought out in the open. Then in the meantime, negative opinions are gonna form about all parties and there will obviously be a dividence of the board members, which is not cool. It's already happening.





"I wrote a book on Anabolics, which is #3 in it's category on Amazon, Period."
And I'm here answering questions for free.
Am I the sort of person who needs to be banned? It EF better off w/o me?"

You know that movie "Good Will Hunting" where the professor walks into the janitorial office and his student side-kick tries to get cocky with the maintenance guys? I can't remember word for word what is mentioned, but you will know the scene if you (or anybody) has watched the movie. The maintenance guys do not really care of the prestige of the professor, as they know that their job is just as important to the school. You totally reminded me of that scene bro. I know plenty of non-authors who have contributed at this board and gave out information for FREE as well. You are no more special than they are. In fact, people like Cockdezl, Wilson6, MS/retropump, and many more, etc....who all have/had very respectible credentials were posting up here for free and debunking shit for years from people that thought too much of themselves (and who brought upon incorrect opinions and research). It isn't the reputation of an author that makes this board a better place, it is the information that comes forth from its users that makes the world turn here. Add in the Mods who help things stay in line, and everything works pretty damn well. This place doesn't need another cocky writer (ie Nelson) to make it work optimally. I hope with all your successes that you never forget this. Again, you are an asset to this board, and everybody is thankful that you are helping them. I'm sure that your book is a good write up, especially if it has a lot of Karl's work involved. I think Big Cat's book, when it comes out, will also be a HUGE benefit to our readers.





"I'd say that the members ought to ask themselves if banning me is good for them or the board, and in addition, if it's not, then why would Macro have banned me?"

Again, you ARE an asset to this board. No you should not be 'permanently banned.'





"And if he does things which are not good for the board or the members, should the members patronize his buisness? And if he does, indeed, not do things for the benefit of the members instead of himself, is it a far leap to think that he's brought an unsafe and ineffective product to the market?

I think not. And I think banning me proved it. Fortunately, there are some mods here who actually do care, and are here for free. But he isn't one of them."

Again, nobody should be banned or patronized for speaking the truth with non-derogatory debates or research. However, there has to be more evidence out there for members to see outside of the "He said....She said" crap that is going on lately. The only thing that will completely solve this is to start a brand new thread and just have some honost debating. A thread where neither party will be involved with messing with the thread. If this can somehow be woked out, then that is what needs to be done. I'm sure that since both parties claim to do what they do for the good of the board and its members, that this can be achievable???? Can somebody maybe try to see if this can be worked out??? This is what really needs to be done in regards to settling the debate.

I do want to mention one thing. As with any product, if it is around awhile, and if it passes the test of time and is still popular and being bought years down the road by many people, how can it not be an effective product??? As time goes on, a product will stay alive by its sales. If a product is not effective, then it will no longer benefit the party selling it nor the public/consumer. If AIFM turns out to be a crappy product, then we all know that nobody will be buying it. This happens with every new supplement that hits the scenes (ie....HMB, chrysin, etc).

BMJ