Advice on training chest - halp!

[nefertiti]

Soooo....my back and legs are easy easy gainers in terms of strength. Chest and shoulders I am having real issues with right now, though.

Part of the problem is I've never had a set routine that just "worked" like I do for back and legs. But it's also just sort of my stubborn area. At one point a while back I was actually bench pressing my body weight (I don't weigh much, but for me that was awesome), but then I spent a spring and summer completely out of the gym till about two months ago.

Since getting back to it, my back is stronger than it's ever been, my legs are where I want them, my core is solid, but my chest/shoulders/tris have made almost zero gain from the very first day I did them. Another issue I'm running into is soreness in my right anterior delt. This could be a form issue, an issue of trying to go to heavy too soon....I don't know. But it's irritating me and making me want to train chest even less.

SO. Here are, roughly, some of the things I've played around with - remember, no set routine (and I dodn't do all of them every time I train chest...it rotates around a little)

BP with a smith machine (close and wide grip) - I've explained before...the main reason I use a smith here is to reduce interaction with douchebags wanting to spot me and put their junk in my face. I'm willing to consider dropping the smith and using a barbell if this could possibly be causing the shoulder issue

DB press

Incline DB press

Flys

Push ups using that yoga ball cut in half thingy, with the rounded part on the floor

Chest dips

Tricep dips

Tricep pulldowns with a cable

Tricep extensions with dbs

Prob throw in some other stuff I'm forgetting

Remember - I'm not doing all of this every time. I have zero direction here and I've been trying anything and what feels like everything to get myself past this.

Which is where you fine ladies come in. Will someone PLEASE help me come up with a good routine for chest/tri day that will hopefully get me past this wall?

 

[trex74]

Im no expert, but when my shoulder was bothering me I made sure to really warm up well, and do shoulder stretches before during and after my shoulder workout.
If it is bothering you, maybe just do one or two shoulder exercises until it feels better.
I don't really put too much focus on chest for some reason. I kinda just do db press (because one arm is still stronger than the other) and a vertical butterfly machine/flies. I'm still working up the courage to go bench press like a big girl I'm a little intimidated by the thought of the barbell falling on me, but I gotta get over that haha.
I do three tri exercises, and that seems to work for me- pulldowns, skullcrushers, and seated french press.

What I would do if I were you is to do the exercises I like the most, the ones that feel more comfortable for your range of motion etc. I don't see the point in getting frustrated, doing something that hurts, or trying to go too heavy before you are ready. Its supposed to be fun right? Maybe just go experiment until you find the ones that are right for you.

 

[peili]

Keep in mind I powerlift so this may or may not work for you. I work chest every Tuesday and Saturday.

Flat BP
Incline Press
Occasionally Decline

Every Wednesday is Tris an Bis
for Tris
Cable pulldowns
DB tricep extensions
Body dips with 45 lb plate

I have increased my bench by 65lbs in the last year doing this. On Tuesday we work moderate weight going for reps. On Saturday we lift as heavy as possible for 1-3 reps. This all depends on having a good spotter, but you could definately do the same on the smith machine on your own. I am lucky that my husband is my spotter and I am his so we do not have your issue. Hopefully you can find someone to help you that can be respectful.

 

[ExtraMile]

I think you do need a set routine, not just changing everytime. That is where you should start, this way you can see if the exercise(s) work or not, and after 8 weeks or so of that routine evaluate and tweak it.

I would scrap the smith machine presses for starters and the pushups and the tricep pushdowns.

Now it largely depends on what you feel hits your chest the best. For me flat dumbell presses work awesome and if I didnt powerlift they would be the basis of my chest workout. I feel for hitting the chest dumbells are superior to barbells. But that is just me. Something else you could try is incline db presses or flyes at a 10-15 degree incline.

The fact that you are having trouble with shoulders makes me think maybe you could benefit from putting chest and shoulders together. You could even make it a chest/shoulder/tricep day.

 

[nefertiti]

I think you do need a set routine, not just changing everytime. That is where you should start, this way you can see if the exercise(s) work or not, and after 8 weeks or so of that routine evaluate and tweak it.

I would scrap the smith machine presses for starters and the pushups and the tricep pushdowns.

Now it largely depends on what you feel hits your chest the best. For me flat dumbell presses work awesome and if I didnt powerlift they would be the basis of my chest workout. I feel for hitting the chest dumbells are superior to barbells. But that is just me. Something else you could try is incline db presses or flyes at a 10-15 degree incline.

The fact that you are having trouble with shoulders makes me think maybe you could benefit from putting chest and shoulders together. You could even make it a chest/shoulder/tricep day.

Thanks...Great advice. I'm strongly considering scrapping the barbell altogether for a little bit while I'm having the shoulder issue, that's what seems to cause it. I can't remember ever having a shoulder issue with dbs.

 

[OMEGA]

"Delts and Chest and Specialties of mine

as a note Women should NEVER train pecs as males do"

I posted this, but I meant for more advanced routines

not the basic one a gave

 

[Roxy722]

Delts and Chest and Specialties of mine

as a note Women should NEVER train pecs as males do

Can you elaborate?? I'm curious what you mean...

Chest is one of my weakest areas too so I've been reading this thread with interest.

 

[OMEGA]

what do you want for your chest?
where do you consider your self weak?

 

[OMEGA]

Extra Mile gave GREAT advice Nef

If I were you I would do all the pushing muscles on the same day but radically simplify it for 3 months

After a Warm up

Do Low Incline bench press with DB's as your bread and butter movement, followed by only ONE flying exercise
then Do Military presses on Smith
followed by lateral raises
then ONE tricep movement

build this area over the next 3 months with the above then you can do your more exotic routine

 

[nefertiti]

what do you want for your chest?
where do you consider your self weak?

I just want to get where I was. 9 months ago I could bench my body weight. Now I'm struggling with 2/3 of that. It's maddening. As I said my back is a ridiculously easy gainer and my "push hard" mentality in the gym means I'm going to keep gaining there. I don't want the "push" to be completely out of whack of the "pull"....I'm fine with some disparity, but the ratio right now it a little silly.

Radically simplifying is going to be really really really hard for me - I cannot stand "going easy," it makes me crazy. But I can try what you suggested if you think it will get me past this wall.

 

[OMEGA]

who said anything about going easy

you did not ask me how many sets, or how to do them!

 

[OMEGA]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w.../omegas-chest-workout-604342.html#post8342664

 

[nefertiti]

who said anything about going easy

you did not ask me how many sets, or how to do them!

lol fine, how many sets, and how should I do them. Teach me!

 

[Roxy722]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w.../omegas-chest-workout-604342.html#post8342664

Wow!! That's a serious workout Omega!

I'm gonna try it...

 

[OMEGA]

thanks its only applicable to chest

10% increase each set, also pay attention to form, amount of Weight is secondary.
Also note the 1 drop set.

Do and acute phosphate load in the AM for this workout ( ex. 5 grams Creatine)

It will help

 

[Rebecca D]

I promise what Omega gives you won't be easy.

Rebecca D

 

[OMEGA]

Sorry

 

[nefertiti]

thanks its only applicable to chest

10% increase each set, also pay attention to form, amount of Weight is secondary.
Also note the 1 drop set.

Do and acute phosphate load in the AM for this workout ( ex. 5 grams Creatine)

It will help

Do the set number and rep number given in that link for each of the things you said I should do? Or just the presses and flys, and do a normal three set thing for the rest?

 

[nefertiti]

Please correct me if I'm wrong (and I know I am...just trying to understand the higher volume, which I've never done), but it seems like all those reps at a lower weight will just give me pump, which I'm not looking for. You've obviously got a proven technique and I'm not by any means doubting it...just trying to understand the mechanics.

 

[OMEGA]

Do the Chest Workout First.
Once done take a 3-5 min Break.

Then go do Delts and do Smith Mil Press to the front 5 sets Pyramid
Then go do 3 sr8 sets of DB lateral 1 arm at a time

Then go do 1 tricep movement

do this ALL in the same day at least once every 4 or 5 days for 3 months till you have got the basic mass you need

 

[OMEGA]

Please correct me if I'm wrong (and I know I am...just trying to understand the higher volume, which I've never done), but it seems like all those reps at a lower weight will just give me pump, which I'm not looking for. You've obviously got a proven technique and I'm not by any means doubting it...just trying to understand the mechanics.

90% of people on this planet dont know how to train chest.
This routine will Build MASS for pecs if you do it right.
Fatigue is fatigue and Hypertrophy will occur if you obey the breaks between sets and the % increase with Each set and the Drop set.

This principle was actually stolen from me by some asshat guru on another board.
Its ok hes not that smart....

 

[RottenWillow]

Trainees vary tremendously on their tolerance for volume. One should always adopt a program then stick with it long enough to test their own personal reaction before changing anything. Changing up anything prematurely is an ideal way to continually failure to discover what works for your body.

Specific to volume, I'm of the opinion one can test their personal tolerance for it in as little was 3 training cycles. That's 3 times training the same muscle. If you hit the same muscle every 4 days, that's 12 days to find out if 8 sets total for chest is just too damn much for your body to progressively adapt. '

Design an experiment (read: a fixed routine built upon sound rational), then conduct the experiment. Failing on either mandate will leave you chasing your tail endlessly.

 

[RottenWillow]

90% of people on this planet dont know how to train chest.

agreed.

"pectoral" training for most people is more of a delt/grind the shit out of your rotators workout.

 

[OMEGA]

agreed.

"pectoral" training for most people is more of a delt/grind the shit out of your rotators workout.

DING DING

 

[nefertiti]

90% of people on this planet dont know how to train chest.
This routine will Build MASS for pecs if you do it right.
Fatigue is fatigue and Hypertrophy will occur if you obey the breaks between sets and the % increase with Each set and the Drop set.

This principle was actually stolen from me by some asshat guru on another board.
Its ok hes not that smart....

Again, maybe I'm showing my ass here, but I'm welcoming you to correct me.

My goal is to be stronger, not bigger....I always thought of them differently. I know there is correlation, but I thought the types of training with the different goals was different.

 

[RottenWillow]

Again, maybe I'm showing my ass here, but I'm welcoming you to correct me.

My goal is to be stronger, not bigger....I always thought of them differently. I know there is correlation, but I thought the types of training with the different goals was different.

They would generally require a pretty different training program than training for hypertrophy. The degree of differentiation between the types of workouts definitely varies between trainees, but generally you'd want shorter time under tension (typically means fewer reps), fewer sets, and with longer rests between them.

Personally I've always made my very best strength gains with very low volume. Two sets to MMF (+ 2 rest/pause reps) per large muscle group and one set in this manner for small muscle groups. This is pretty damn different from the approach Omega favors. His routines I believe would be effective for muscle building. His sorts of routines are the ones that have certainly worked best for me when I was focused solely on muscle building.

 

[nefertiti]

They would generally require a pretty different training program than training for hypertrophy. The degree of differentiation between the types of workouts definitely varies between trainees, but generally you'd want shorter time under tension (typically means fewer reps), fewer sets, and with longer rests between them.

Personally I've always made my very best strength gains with very low volume. Two sets to MMF (+ 2 rest/pause reps) per large muscle group and one set in this manner for small muscle groups. This is pretty damn different from the approach Omega favors. His routines I believe would be effective for muscle building. His sorts of routines are the ones that have certainly worked best for me when I was focused solely on muscle building.

This was my understanding....thanks, brosephine.

I took his and EM's advice in terms of what exercizes to do, but I'm keeping the low volume/high weight that has always worked for me and what I want for my body. I did this for my chest routine last week and was pleasantly sore without feeling that anterior delt tweak that's been pissing me off. i'm gonna stick with it and just be patient.

 

[RottenWillow]

This was my understanding....thanks, brosephine.

I took his and EM's advice in terms of what exercizes to do, but I'm keeping the low volume/high weight that has always worked for me and what I want for my body. I did this for my chest routine last week and was pleasantly sore without feeling that anterior delt tweak that's been pissing me off. i'm gonna stick with it and just be patient.

That should work. Just remember it's critical to backcycle every 6-8 weeks. For everyone but total beginners the body just can't handle continuous progression in weights for very long before it fails to adapt. First gains will stall, and eventually start to backslide.

 

[nefertiti]

Now I'm definitely gonna have a newb moment. Backcycle? I have an idea of what this means but no one has ever told me anything about it. Good to know since i've definitely had the above happen and I usually end up taking a couple of weeks off to fix it. But i'm all for preventative measures. Pls informs me.

 

[RottenWillow]

Now I'm definitely gonna have a newb moment. Backcycle? I have an idea of what this means but no one has ever told me anything about it. Good to know since i've definitely had the above happen and I usually end up taking a couple of weeks off to fix it. But i'm all for preventative measures. Pls informs me.

Backcycle means to back up to an earlier phase in the training cycle in order to make the workouts easier for a while. It would of course be implemented differently from one program to the next, but would always carry a element of reduced load so that your body's adaptive process could get a break. I think I broke it down in a thread a while back with the words "intermediate trainee" in the title.