Advice appreciated on TRT & fertility

[chas3369]

Hello everyone-
This was my original post earlier this year!!! Back in April!!!

My name is Charlie and I am 41 years old! I currently weight 290. I went to Dr. this past fall to have some bloodwork done, since I had not been for over 15 years. I had gained alot of weight over the last 2-3 years (40pounds), mainly around my stomach, and was concerned about diabetes/thyroid etc. Anyway, I was cleared of diabetes, however doc called me and said I had low Test levels and recommended Test injections- he said it would be good for losing belly fat and staying lean/gaining some muscle etc---sounded good! Here is my dliemma- my wife and I have been trying to conceive/get pregnant, and she has always had some hormone issues and challenges. I have always had great fertility/sperm lab results (3-4 tests). Bottom line is the general family doctor did not mention that this could shut me down or be harmful with fertility. I even asked him about this, and he said it is good for sperm motility and production. I rcvd my first shot in December 200mg of Tcyp. I returned in January and did not feel any difference after 3 weeks. So he then started doing weekly of 200mg ew for the last 7 weeks. I am concerned because I did not realize this could be an ongoing process (hence TRT), again doc never mentioned this. I was due for a shot this week on Tuesday and skipped it. I met with doc and asked questions about what was his plans, and he didnt have a clue in relationship to PCT or HCG/AI's etc. He just said he would taper me off!!! I asked to see an endo- going 2morror/Friday. Here is the deal I got a copy of my original labs from November (First & only lab), and my total test was 362 ng/dl ranfe of 280-800, and my Free Test (Direct): 8.3pg/ml range of 6.8-21.5. My free test seems low comparesd to Total. Any thoughts?? Also, should I consider taking some HCG for a few weeks to help out until I decide or get with ENDO?? Main concern is fertility & also getting my natural levels back to where they were!!!! I think through better diet, losing some weight, getting more sleep -terrrible sleep patterns/ and test boosters, loweering estrogen etc. that I will be ok in the 400-500 range! Anyone agree/ disagree?? I just dont wanna be on injections the rest of my life unless absolute necessary ya know! I would really appreciate some feedback and any ideas/ concerns! Lastly, what should I ask the endo on my appointment tomorrow??? Thanks ---

Update.. Oct 18th NOW 2nd Test lad at the VA---results from Quest!!
I Did go to Endo /specialist, and he agreed that I was shutting down! He felt I should stop injections and wait 6-8 weeks and go have another lab. So in April, approx. 6 weeks after my last shot I had another lab.
Serum LH: <0.2 L MIU/ML range 1.5-9.3 VERY LOW---shut down
FSH 0.8 L MIU/ML 1.6-8.0 " "
Estradiol 35 PG/ML 13-54
Total Test. 400 ng/dl 250-1000 low normal
Free Test 41.4 L pg/ml 46-224 LOW below normal
Bio-Test 81.5 L ng/dl 110-575 LOW
SHBG 44 nmol/L 9-45

Total Test seems better than first test, but very low FSH & LH, as well as Free Testosterone. Any thoughts....

Just had another lab done again at the VA results from Quest Diagnostics.
Sept. 21st.
LH 2.6 miu/ml range 1.5-9.3
FSH 4.0 miu/ml 1.6-8.0
Total Test. 267 ng.dl 241-827
Free Test (sendout) 50.1 pg/ml 46-224
Bio Test 107.3 Lng/dl 110-575
SHBG 39 9-45

Noticed my LH & FSH have went up since the lab in April, but my Total Test has went back down to only 267. I worked out like crazy back in Jan-April, but have slowed down some. I stopped the shots back in march. So I have done nothing but diet and ex. and have lost about 20 pounds. I am down to 270, actually got down to 260. I havent been back to the endo since the 1st appointment cause he was wierd and told me to not even take protein shakes. Nobody seems to understand TRT or whether it affects fertility. Bottom line is I had a sperm lab done back in July--figured it had been long enough since stopping the injections to get a decent result-- and I had a low count for the first time ever. It was only 19 million, usually im around 60-80 million. So the injections did begin to shut me down and lowered my levels. Should I go back to the shots--I did ffeel much better as far as energy and endurance. Ive never had a problem with libido or getting hard etc. Feedback greatly appreciated. I would just like to have normal levels, and apparently for 40 year olds that is around the 600 range. Also concerned about my Low Free Test too! Sorry so long just want u guys to know my situation!! I would appreciate some advice or feedback!!!

 

[Zyglamail]

Im not really sure what your questions are or what you are looking for. Anytime you take external hormones it will alter your own. Since FSH/LH are what triggers sperm creation and test production when you take exo text, their levels will decrease along with your natural test output. The fsh/lh is really not that big of a deal unless your looking to have kids, then you really shouldnt be on trt anyway.

TRT IS test REPLACEMENT therapy, hence its for life, your replacing your own low natural production with external sources.

7 weeks isnt really long enough to get a good indicator for labs when on TRT because it takes time for your body to totally shut down test production and for things to "settle". Your low free test is likely due to your high SHBG which binds to test and makes in unusable. So even if total test is normal you can feel like crap if you have low free test.

What you really need to do is get your body fat under control which will help to control estrogen and alter your estrogen to test ratio to a more positive balance.

If your trying to conceive your best bet may be to try some HCG or HMG at 250IU 2-3 times a week.

 

[chas3369]

Im not really sure what your questions are or what you are looking for. Anytime you take external hormones it will alter your own. Since FSH/LH are what triggers sperm creation and test production when you take exo text, their levels will decrease along with your natural test output. The fsh/lh is really not that big of a deal unless your looking to have kids, then you really shouldnt be on trt anyway.

TRT IS test REPLACEMENT therapy, hence its for life, your replacing your own low natural production with external sources.

7 weeks isnt really long enough to get a good indicator for labs when on TRT because it takes time for your body to totally shut down test production and for things to "settle". Your low free test is likely due to your high SHBG which binds to test and makes in unusable. So even if total test is normal you can feel like crap if you have low free test.

What you really need to do is get your body fat under control which will help to control estrogen and alter your estrogen to test ratio to a more positive balance.

If your trying to conceive your best bet may be to try some HCG or HMG at 250IU 2-3 times a week.

Zyg I appreciate your reply. I originally went to the doctor concerned cause I had been working out and running like 15 miles per week, and dieting etc., and couldnt seem to lose weight and wanted to rule out any major illness. They did rule out diabetes and thyroid disorder, however, my fasting blood glucose is always fairly high. Bottom line the MD who prescribed me the Tcyp injections didnt explain that taking the exo test would suppress my natural production and or explain that therapy is a lifetime thing. He just planned on having me take shots for 10 weeks and then retesting. I joined this forum along with several others and began getting educated. I did take a total of 8 shots over a 3 month period, and decided to stop after I realized that the doc didnt inform me properly and ZZI didnt have any PCT supps. Moving forward my question is at this point I am still trying to have a child and dont want to reduce my sperm so I need to stay off the shots and then if we decide to stop trying im sure i will have to seriously consider going on TRT/HRT. What should I take in the short term to get my levels up without suppresing my natural production and sperm? I do realize I need to lose some more weight and have been trying to monitor diet and have been in the gym consistently for over a year now. I have been fluctuating between 260-275 for last 6 months. I am 6' 4" and built decent but do seem to carry too much around my waist! Its just hard to do weights and cardio with low energy and Low T ya know. You think I should order some HCgenerate from Need2 or what supps would u recommend along with losing another 25 pounds?? Thanks

 

[JAKE-PATRIOTS]

Talk to your endo about hcg. That can boost your own test production, and you could combine that with an AI [get your e lower] and maybe some proviron to increase free T.

 

[XMAN.]

hcg and hmg r like exo test they're just replacement to LH and FSH, we ppl on hrt take them to keep our balls working while taking exo test too, but in ur case if ur priority is to have kids and need to increase ur sperm count naturally i would suggest u stay away from any analogue that replace a natural occuring hormone in ur body, no exo test no hcg no hmg. what i think is best for u right now is a low dose of an AI (aromasin or letro) with a low dose of clomid and keep runing them for months (like a PCT) and u'll naturally increase ur total test free test and LH and FSH and lower ur E2 and SHBG of course.
for eggs. : letro 1.25mg e3d to eod + clomid 25mg eod to ed (the higher frequency is only in case ur labs did not show a significant improvement)
do it at least for 2 months and check ur bloods and ur sperm again and go from there.
find a knowledgable doc on fertility and discuss these protocols with him.

 

[SpyWizard]

have you had a sperm count done?? i wouldn't worry too much about it..

I had a reversal done after the procedure i was producing 100,000 motile sperm.. a success according to the docs but you aren't getting anyone prego with that kind of production..

I did 500iu hcg 2x week and 50mg clomid for 30 days..

did the test again 6,000,000 and bamo the wife was pregers... also, have her thyroid checked, a lowered thyroid production in a woman will keep her from getting pregnant as well..

i was 48 when i did this 4 yrs ago..

 

[chas3369]

have you had a sperm count done?? i wouldn't worry too much about it..

I had a reversal done after the procedure i was producing 100,000 motile sperm.. a success according to the docs but you aren't getting anyone prego with that kind of production..

I did 500iu hcg 2x week and 50mg clomid for 30 days..

did the test again 6,000,000 and bamo the wife was pregers... also, have her thyroid checked, a lowered thyroid production in a woman will keep her from getting pregnant as well..

i was 48 when i did this 4 yrs ago..

Thanks xman---that was what I was thinking! I dont want to suppress my natty production, and if possible, i dont want to have to go the HRT route unless its necessary ya know. I know my wife can get clomid, but how or where can i get it? Also, SPY WIZ yes I have had several labs done before taking the injections of Test cyp, and my swimmers have always been in the normal range (around 50-60 million), then a few months ago I had a test done after taking the shots, and I was below the normal range for the first time ever. I think the low dosage of clomid to kickstart my HPTA loop is a good idea, just not sure if I can get the doc to prescribe me those meds!! Thanks for the replies fellas I appreciate it. I do have a year old vial of HCG 10,000 iuis and the water to mix it, but was told this could further suppress m y LH. Any further suggestions/thoughts appreciated!!!!!