Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th carbon. This is what makes c17 orals so hard on the liver.

[needtogetaas]

What effects do you think adding methyl ethyl esters to creatin and other compounds have on the liver?

It is not the testosterone molecule its self that is hard on the liver. Rather the adding of the methyl/ethyl ester that causes the stress on the liver.

So it would seem safe to say that adding a methyl ethyl ester to any compound would cause liver stress.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I agree with this.

Also, too much protein causes stress on the liver. So do too many pills and taking creatine for too long without a break.

After taking creatine for a while, I usually take some milk thisle for a week.

 

[needtogetaas]

This may just go over the heads of about 60% of the members lol. I love you guys.

 

[needtogetaas]

PP,nelson.mava get the fuck in here and talk to me.

 

[the_alcatraz]

PP,nelson.mava get the fuck in here and talk to me.

lol

 

[SouthernLord]

Would adding the methyl ester to creatine/arginine/bcaa/etc make them even more effective? I don't understand why you would do this if the risk is not work the reward.

 

[needtogetaas]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

Would adding the methyl ester to creatine/arginine/bcaa/etc make them even more effective? I don't understand why you would do this if the risk is not work the reward.

On cee yes its worth it.

 

[SouthernLord]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

On cee yes its worth it.

interesting. Are you on the verge of the next "Big Thing" here?? Or is this already being done? If so by who?

 

[alphatest]

What effects do you think adding methyl ethyl esters to creatin and other compounds have on the liver?

It is not the testosterone molecule its self that is hard on the liver. Rather the adding of the methyl/ethyl ester that causes the stress on the liver.

So it would seem safe to say that adding a methyl ethyl ester to any compound would cause liver stress.

I think you have it a little mixed up. 17a alkylated steroids are hard on the liver, this is not the same as steroids with ester groups attached. For instance test E has an ester attached but isn't hard on the liver when compared to 17a methyltestosterone which has only a methyl group added.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

In a word, yes. It isn't the actual drug that stresses the liver, but the ester which essentially gives the liver the signal to NOT do its job and filter it out. THAT is what is so damaging. In a way, it's brilliant science, but the end result is pretty crude. It's a lousy way to keep a compound active. But it do make dbol so damn effective.

Primo tabs are not 17AA but I wonder if they were. They'd be like SUPER-VAR! Or what if dbol wasn't 17 AA but you had enough to take them all day? I would think it'd be possible to a UGL to do this but it would be a hard sell.

And yes, as soon as you alter that molecular structure, the stress is the same. So a prohormone that has a methy ethyl ester is as hard on the liver as dianabol -- with about 1;10000th of the anabolic properties.

 

[needtogetaas]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

In a word, yes. It isn't the actual drug that stresses the liver, but the ester which essentially gives the liver the signal to NOT do its job and filter it out. THAT is what is so damaging. In a way, it's brilliant science, but the end result is pretty crude. It's a lousy way to keep a compound active. But it do make dbol so damn effective.

Primo tabs are not 17AA but I wonder if they were. They'd be like SUPER-VAR! Or what if dbol wasn't 17 AA but you had enough to take them all day? I would think it'd be possible to a UGL to do this but it would be a hard sell.

And yes, as soon as you alter that molecular structure, the stress is the same. So a prohormone that has a methy ethyl ester is as hard on the liver as dianabol -- with about 1;10000th of the anabolic properties.

Ya so the guy above you ^^^^ lol


any way thats what I thought.

 

[alphatest]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

In a word, yes. It isn't the actual drug that stresses the liver, but the ester which essentially gives the liver the signal to NOT do its job and filter it out. THAT is what is so damaging. In a way, it's brilliant science, but the end result is pretty crude. It's a lousy way to keep a compound active. But it do make dbol so damn effective.

Primo tabs are not 17AA but I wonder if they were. They'd be like SUPER-VAR! Or what if dbol wasn't 17 AA but you had enough to take them all day? I would think it'd be possible to a UGL to do this but it would be a hard sell.

And yes, as soon as you alter that molecular structure, the stress is the same. So a prohormone that has a methy ethyl ester is as hard on the liver as dianabol -- with about 1;10000th of the anabolic properties.

Not true, alkylation, not esterification prevents the enzymes in the liver from converting the molecule into an inactive form. Look at Dbol, it's molecular structure has no ester group, only a ketone and an alcohol.

 

[needtogetaas]

You got a fan tonight nelson.

 

[Big_BK]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

Not true, alkylation, not esterification prevents the enzymes in the liver from converting the molecule into an inactive form. Look at Dbol, it's molecular structure has no ester group, only a ketone and an alcohol.

Someone else already went over that by comparing test E to alkylation. Not all esterfied (is that a word?) compounds cause liver stress.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

Not true, alkylation, not esterification prevents the enzymes in the liver from converting the molecule into an inactive form. Look at Dbol, it's molecular structure has no ester group, only a ketone and an alcohol.

I said 17AA as in Alpha alkylated.

 

[alphatest]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

I said 17AA as in Alpha alkylated.

But this statement.

"In a word, yes. It isn't the actual drug that stresses the liver, but the ester which essentially gives the liver the signal to NOT do its job and filter it out. THAT is what is so damaging. In a way, it's brilliant science, but the end result is pretty crude. It's a lousy way to keep a compound active. But it do make dbol so damn effective."

Is clearly incorrect. Esters don't significantly stress the liver nor do they have anything to do with dbol.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

But this statement.

"In a word, yes. It isn't the actual drug that stresses the liver, but the ester which essentially gives the liver the signal to NOT do its job and filter it out. THAT is what is so damaging. In a way, it's brilliant science, but the end result is pretty crude. It's a lousy way to keep a compound active. But it do make dbol so damn effective."

Is clearly incorrect. Esters don't significantly stress the liver nor do they have anything to do with dbol.

Correction. That was over simplification on my part, but essentially, yes, it's the fact that liver is being forced to allow the drug to pass through does more damage than the drug itself. That's what causes the strain. The actual toxicity of the drug isn't as bad. EVERYTHING has a certain level of toxicity but the liver can handle it. But when you force the liver to pass this stuff through, it not only stresses it but there's a chance of it not efficiently filtering other impurities and this is why drinking while taking oral steroids is a really bad idea.

 

[sugashane]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

Correction. That was over simplification on my part, but essentially, yes, it's the fact that liver is being forced to allow the drug to pass through does more damage than the drug itself. QUOTE]


Nelson, I've noticed someone always nit-picks you for some reason, even if you're 99% correct, with the 1% being an exception. lol

Have any chemists ever alkylated another oral like Anavar? Or would that really be worth it? That just seems to be something power athletes who don't want to move up a weight class would go nuts for.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

On cee yes its worth it.

Kre-alkalyn > CEE > CM

 

[Burpees]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

Kre-alkalyn > CEE > CM

Which is less liver damaging?

 

[GUARDIAN]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

Which is less liver damaging?

dont care......lol

 

[Mavafanculo]

i only know enuf about this to know that i dont know enuf to answer. hows that lol

if you post it in the chemistry section, I sure some of the molecule-heads will know

 

[Chocolate_Thunder]

i only know enuf about this to know that i dont know enuf to answer. hows that lol

if you post it in the chemistry section, I sure some of the molecule-heads will know

EXACTLY.

Needto, I am impressed with this thread of yours as most of the threads started by you are not of this nature.

 

[needtogetaas]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

EXACTLY.

Needto, I am impressed with this thread of yours as most of the threads started by you are not of this nature.

Not really bro. Go back and rad some of my older threads. I have just not had time to do threads like this the last month or two.

I answer at least 30 pm's a day,right for my book, setting up for my new product line, help sponsors,help members,manage customer accounts for a supplement producing company. Help new up and coming supplement companies get all the need for there company and products ie labels,graphics bla bla, Help ef sell books/plats/karma,and the list just keeps growing.



I still find time to be here on the boards with you good bro's though. With out you guys I am nothing.

 

[DaveTSI]

Re: Adding an aykyl (ethel methyl) chemical group to the alfa position of the 17th ca

Not really bro. Go back and rad some of my older threads. I have just not had time to do threads like this the last month or two.

I answer at least 30 pm's a day,right for my book, setting up for my new product line, help sponsors,help members,manage customer accounts for a supplement producing company. Help new up and coming supplement companies get all the need for there company and products ie labels,graphics bla bla, Help ef sell books/plats/karma,and the list just keeps growing.



I still find time to be here on the boards with you good bro's though. With out you guys I am nothing.

damn needto, your not fuckin around! This community needs more people like Needto, your a good bro dude!