Addicted to GHB

[Machiavellian Muscle]

Fonz, you may be using for a sleeping aid and for tha I believe you. But that is not how a lot of people I know use it. Before you know it the caps are calling you. You are thinking during the day damn would be nice to have a cap. Not physically addicted yet, but mentally possiblly. Then you cap out during the day. And then another to cut the edge. Then if you do not cap out you start to get the shakes. So you cap out again. Before you know it you have to cap out every fucking hour. I know this for a fact. I have many friends who I scene go through some shit because of this. I am not talking bad about gbh just my experience. I am glad that I did not get to that level. But it is fucked up when your friends are trying to get detoxed with no luck. Apparently there are only a handfull of professionals who know how to properly detox ghb and if not done right it is a fact you could definitely die. But Fonz you seem to have it under control, but watch out it may hit you in the ass and then what. Oh by the way everyone I know who has ever been addicted to ghb tried to give me 101 reasons why it is good for you. So keep spreading the word because if you say it enough you might start believing yourself....

 

[surehands2]

is 1,4 physically addicting or mentally?

 

[HappyScrappy]

Also with ambien you don't pop up awake after 4 hours like with ghb and have to take more. Ghb is a nasty and dangerous drug that has no place in bodybuilding.

AND as a cool bonus - Ambien IS addictive!!!

whoo hoo!

 

[dballer]

Mackavelli... I agree with you bro... the Fonz can argue all he wants... but he is wrong about this one. I saw one of my friends almost die from detox... it was sick as hell too. If Fonz is that cool, that he does not want to believe in the dangers... well..... you are not gonna change his mind. Just drop it. you warned them. I know your right. The others who have read this and know about detox know your right.... and the guys calling bullshit on you will find out when they quit.

 

[mfarrington]

A girl gave me some, and that night, she did the same thing as Nadraloner. I later discovered that she was addicted ( her body was accustomed to the infusion ) to the stuff. She also contracted extreme amnesia.

Didn't do me that way, but, because of all the negative experiences that occur, the stuff should definitley be out of the hands of the weak at will.

 

[FullCircle]

GHB does in fact cause physical dependence. Addiction is a trait characterized by genetic variables which may allow for someone to be an "addict". Addicts easily become "addicted" to the high, while they may not be physiologically dependent (which causes withdrawls). Fonz, your normally right on with your posts, but I don't know if you have done your homework on this one. Doing a quick search in a couple easily accessable journals turned up many studies showing that GHB causes physical dependance. Here's a couple real quick:

Gamma hydroxybutyrate (GHB) and gamma butyrolactone (GBL) withdrawal: five case studies.

McDaniel CH, Miotto KA.

ULCA Department of Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences, Los Angeles, California 90024, USA.

There is little medical information available about gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) or gamma-butyrolactone (GBL) dependence or withdrawal. In this study the authors treated and reviewed multiple cases of GHB and GBL withdrawal in high-dose users. Five patients during nine hospitalizations were treated for GHB or GBL withdrawal. The authors describe a spectrum of GHB or GBL withdrawal from mild to severe and discuss medications used for treatment. They conclude that patients with GHB or GBL withdrawal may present with agitated psychosis, delirium, and autonomic instability. In this sample, relapse to GHB or GBL use occurred soon after treatment of withdrawal.

Gamma-hydroxybutyrate: an emerging drug of abuse that causes physical dependence.

Galloway GP, Frederick SL, Staggers FE Jr, Gonzales M, Stalcup SA, Smith DE.

Haight-Ashbury Free Clinics, San Francisco, California, USA.

Gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) is a compound found in mammalian brain which meets many criteria of a neurotransmitter. GHB has been investigated as a tool for inducing absence (petit mal) seizures, for use as an anesthetic, and for treatment of narcolepsy, alcohol dependence and opiate dependence. Since 1990 GHB has been abused in the United States for euphoric, sedative and anabolic effects. Coma and seizures have been reported following abuse of GHB, but dependence liability has received little attention. The neuropharmacology, potential therapeutic uses and acute adverse effects of GHB are reviewed, followed by a case series of eight people using GHB. Adverse effects of GHB may include prolonged abuse, seizure activity and a withdrawal syndrome. This withdrawal syndrome includes insomnia, anxiety and tremor; withdrawal symptoms resolve in 3-12 days. GHB has the potential to cause a significant incidence of abuse and adverse effects. Prolonged use of high doses may lead to a withdrawal syndrome, which resolves without sequelae. Educational efforts should address the narrow therapeutic index, possible physical dependence and dangers of combining GHB with other drugs of abuse.

those were just off medline. NIH has more, and there are more in JAMA. GHB dependence is real. What is metabolizes into has nothing to do with it. If you supply a constant elevated dose of GHB, the bodys ability or need to manufacture it declines (just like test). Decreased GHB levels is nothing to joke about. It's known to be present in everything from depression to retartedness (sp?).

-FC

 

[growin']

I've read a few studies on G, and I agree with Fonz. I use very infrequently during times I can't afford many hours of sleep (ie finals in school, or project due at work). If someone needs to take something every hour to take the edge off, they need to evaluate themselves. Sounds like a serious anxiety disorder. You could easily replace G with Valium, cigarettes, booze, weed, whatever. G just happens to make people feel good. I think that person who needs a cap an hour would abuse anything.

 

[HappyScrappy]

FullCircle - thanks for a more well thought out post - but it still isn't quite what you think.
Things I will point out:
1) no description of how the studies were done, and these are solely the hypothesized results - nothing is backed right there - just b/c someone at a university hypothesizes it - they are wrong a lot so that doesn't make is gospel

2) they say "possible physical dependence " - they have no proof

3) they note high doses and actual abuse - what most of us, including Fonz, do, is not abuse.

The withdrawal is over very quickly and if you read more on it - you will see that if you taper the doses, you get zero withdrawal.

and the withdrawal is NOT from the GHB - it is your body missing the dopamine rush that it will get with ghb use.
when you use heroin, your body becomes dependant on the heroin and its metabolites - when you use GHB, your body enjoys its effects on your system and misses them - but is not dependant on them.

much in the same way that pot is NOT physically addictive, but I'm sure we all know somebody that is basically addicted to it - they are addicted to the results that it gives, but they aren't physically dependant on it.

 

[HappyScrappy]

this is off topic- but pgerardone, what law school did you attend?

 

[pgerardone]

Happyscrappy, listen I know you really want to believe that ghb is harmless as does fonz and many others who use it but the fact is ghb is a fucked up and dangerous drug. You are trying to justify using it in every possible way. "The withdrawal does not last long" well heroin withdrawal lasts about the same amount of time. And then you go on to say that you are not really withdrawing from the ghb??? WTF, what do you think caused the dopamine rush? Of course you are withdrawing from the ghb. As for tapering, any drug can be tapered off of. A heroin addict can taper off of heroin and have little withdrawal. The problem is that once someone is addicted it is about impossible for them to taper because at a point in the taper they will no longer get high.
I have first hand experience with ghb withdrawal, I witnessed it and it is not pleasant and it is very real. The person could not handle it and is still using ghb throughout the day. I want to ask all you ghb users one question...Why do you use it? There is no good reason other then to get ripped or to pick up your mood. If you say to sleep there are much better options out there for sleep(ambien or sonata). The scariest thing about ghb abuse is that it has been theorized that after a long period of ghb abuse a person will never be able escape depression without drugs. I even read that someone addicted to ghb for a long time only has one choice to get off and not be depressed and that is to get on methadone. Why the fuck would anyone want to use this when no one really knows what the long term effects will be.