about done w dbol cycle...

[Bruce]

you gotta respect terms postition. however, in my case and some others who are extreme ectomorphs i feel that gear is the only option once you reach a certain plateau, and that might not be 200 lbs. i am 6 2 and full grown i was 125 as a frosh, i got to 145 natty but that was all i could do. with gear i shot up 22lbs in 12 weeks to 165. so i feel sometimes one must use gear to grow, however, if you are able to put on weight without gear than you should wait till you need it, that is essentially what he is saying.

 

[Joe Stenson]

but an advanced athlete with YEARS of training (Which IMO are the ONLY ones who should be using steroids

Just never understood this stance. Granted, if you have no training experience or diet knowledge you shouldn't be using steroids, but assuming a somewhat decent background I think it's perfectly fine to use before hitting your genetic potential.

I mean, if you wait until your genetic potential, anything you gain from the cycle will be lost afterwards. So either you're forced to stay on for life, or you're just spinning your wheels. Taking gear to speed the process of reaching your genetic potential makes more sense to me.

 

[The Terminator]

Just never understood this stance. Granted, if you have no training experience or diet knowledge you shouldn't be using steroids, but assuming a somewhat decent background I think it's perfectly fine to use before hitting your genetic potential.

I mean, if you wait until your genetic potential, anything you gain from the cycle will be lost afterwards. So either you're forced to stay on for life, or you're just spinning your wheels. Taking gear to speed the process of reaching your genetic potential makes more sense to me.

Yes, thats true...But how many times have you seen guys on here with 2 months of weight training background (OR LESS ) who are already using steroids...
These kind of guys have no business using gear...

Its a cruth that once one learns on they tend to NEVER learn how to walk without it

I think most guys WOULD benefit from longer natural training before they turn to steroids to grow...A kid 18-20 yrs old with a few months of weight training experience is 'USUALLY' nowhere near ready for it, IMO

Ther are SO MANY ways to enhance growth WITHOUT gear but not many people seem to have the patience anymore to wait and learn how to eat to grow, or vary their training routines at all...They just take more and more juice

That is why you see guys on their second cycles taking 750-1000 mg of Test, with 600 deca, and 50 mg./day of Dbol ...To me that is just outrageous

 

[CENTURION44]

Did you run anything with it? A-dex, l-dex, anything?

Is nolva as effective with DBOL??

 

[Joe Stenson]

Yes, thats true...But how many times have you seen guys on here with 2 months of weight training background (OR LESS ) who are already using steroids...
These kind of guys have no business using gear...

Its a cruth that once one learns on they tend to NEVER learn how to walk without it

I think most guys WOULD benefit from longer natural training before they turn to steroids to grow...A kid 18-20 yrs old with a few months of weight training experience is 'USUALLY' nowhere near ready for it, IMO

Ther are SO MANY ways to enhance growth WITHOUT gear but not many people seem to have the patience anymore to wait and learn how to eat to grow, or vary their training routines at all...They just take more and more juice

That is why you see guys on their second cycles taking 750-1000 mg of Test, with 600 deca, and 50 mg./day of Dbol ...To me that is just outrageous

Well, I think we're totally on the same page, but we just have different examples in the front of our minds. Everything you're saying is exactly true. I just take offense to that argument because I, myself, started early. And I'm not one of the guys you describe. I trained natty for 3-4 years, did my research, had my diet down, etc.

And now, at the tender age of 21, I'm not too far off of my genetic potential. The biggest thing for me is this: I'd way rather be "jacked" at 22-23 years of age, than when I hit my late 20's-early 30's. Who knows where my priorities will be by then. I have no aspirations to compete, so while I never see myself stopping working out, I'm sure it will move more to the background than it is right now.

Now, I can respect people having other opinions, but I think my contention is fairly reasonable.

 

[The Terminator]

Well, I think we're totally on the same page, but we just have different examples in the front of our minds. Everything you're saying is exactly true. I just take offense to that argument because I, myself, started early. And I'm not one of the guys you describe. I trained natty for 3-4 years, did my research, had my diet down, etc.

And now, at the tender age of 21, I'm not too far off of my genetic potential. The biggest thing for me is this: I'd way rather be "jacked" at 22-23 years of age, than when I hit my late 20's-early 30's. Who knows where my priorities will be by then. I have no aspirations to compete, so while I never see myself stopping working out, I'm sure it will move more to the background than it is right now.

Now, I can respect people having other opinions, but I think my contention is fairly reasonable.

Then I will leave it at this...
I think the LONGER you train naturally FIRST the better off you will be (you WILL learn more about how to train and eat right to grow when you are natural as it is ALOT harder), so it forces you to have to work harder for it . Thus when you do finally get 'on' you have a better foundation laid out, and your work ethic will be better, IMO

3 years natural is better than 3 months ...But 5 years natural is better than 3 years, etc, etc...

 

[Bruce]

ok term what if you train for five years and are only able to get to 145 eating 5000 cals a day and 300g of protein and your fucking ready to puke everyday. then with gear i did the same thing and 22 lbs came right on, won't u admit that certain ecto's reach a plateau at lower weights

 

[The Terminator]

ok term what if you train for five years and are only able to get to 145 eating 5000 cals a day and 300g of protein and your fucking ready to puke everyday. then with gear i did the same thing and 22 lbs came right on, won't u admit that certain ecto's reach a plateau at lower weights

NOBODY started off skinnier than I did (130 lbs)...So if I can gain it I think ANYBODY can...They simply just have to eat more...

I personally get sick at more than about 6k calories a day so I never get bigger than 185 ...However I trained for 7 years naturally FIRST and gained ~35-37 lbs doing that...

Take those extreme Ecto's (like myself) and even with gear you will still only be able to gain so much if you arent able to force yourself to eat like it is a job for you

 

[1UNDER]

...bench went from 205 for 5 to 255 for 5 in 4 weeks. wondering how much ill keep of this after cycle. any opinions?

After you loose all the bloat and if you have some sort of pct maybe you'll keep a pound or two.Sorry.

 

[Bruce]

NOBODY started off skinnier than I did (130 lbs)...So if I can gain it I think ANYBODY can...They simply just have to eat more...

I personally get sick at more than about 6k calories a day so I never get bigger than 185 ...However I trained for 7 years naturally FIRST and gained ~35-37 lbs doing that...

Take those extreme Ecto's (like myself) and even with gear you will still only be able to gain so much if you arent able to force yourself to eat like it is a job for you

like i said i got you beat i was 125 man, i swear to you getting to 145 was hell it took 4 years. i could get to 148 but i would be so bloated and sick from eating it was hell. when i am on gear i eat and i am still hungry thats what is so good for me, its not like its magic it just allows me to take in the cals better. bro i was 125 at 6 feet 1 and my waist is still 29 inches, with a 6 6 arm span, you can see how hard it is too press and put on that type of mass