Abortion.

[patsfan1379]

Its in the courts again... This time about whether a minor should have to notify the parents before abortion.

What the hell?

There is going to be a damn civil war if GWB puts an anti-abortion judge up there for Rehnquist.

 

[velvett]

That's crazy.
You can't have any other surgical procedure in the US without parental consent/signature as a minor so this shouldn't be any different.

 

[Sub-Zero]

i dont think they should have to notify their parents.


either way most of the ones that have parents that would stop them and not support them end up finding out anyway in the newspaper with a "child throws herself down stairs and cuts ambilical cord with wire cutters" title

 

[wootoom]

abortion is fuckin wrong.

 

[patsfan1379]

agreed

 

[WODIN]

So is premarital sex and abandoment of the pregnant girl by the guy who knocks her up. But where are all the dick skinners lining up to make it a crime to impregnant someone and then abandon them?

 

[Eringobraugh]

i dont think they should have to notify their parents.


either way most of the ones that have parents that would stop them and not support them end up finding out anyway in the newspaper with a "child throws herself down stairs and cuts ambilical cord with wire cutters" title

What??? Ive never seen a story like that. WTF are you talking about?

 

[mrplunkey]

I'm massively pro-choice, but the surgical procedure itself should fall under the guildelines of other surgical procedures (i.e. parental consent for minors).

I don't think partial-birth abortions are right and I really have problems with third trimester abortions unless it endangers the mother's health. Setting those two issues aside, abortions should be treated like *any* other elective procedure IMO. Also, men shouldn't get to even vote on this issue... 1 dick = no vote.

 

[Eringobraugh]

Also, men shouldn't get to even vote on this issue... 1 dick = no vote.

Thats an asinine statement. Parental rights include the father as well, I think its pretty retarded to frame the debate with one parent left out simply b/c he is a male with a penis whether pro or con, how dumb is that.


And abortion, pro or con, is a human rights issue debate, it doesnt have anything to do with anatomy. Der

 

[patsfan1379]

also agreed

 

[Cutiebaby]

So is premarital sex and abandoment of the pregnant girl by the guy who knocks her up. But where are all the dick skinners lining up to make it a crime to impregnant someone and then abandon them?

a guy who screws a girl, gets her pregnant, then leaves is not the same as abortion....abortion is killing a life form reguardless of the stage of pregnancy..it has potential to be a person in this life and people are stripping that right away...i understand that there are less fortunate children out there who were born to a teenage girl and the father left..but there are other things you can do instead of abortion...here in Mass they have baby safe haven where you can drop off the new born and never look back. I would say that 98-100 percent of the people who do this severly regret it after all is said and done.and if people are going to abort innocent babies than maybe they should not screw!!!!!!!!

 

[Becoming]

I think it is fucked up that your kid can get surgical procedures without your consent...

wait till kids want to go get implants without your consent or other shit...

you will be saying "what the?"

 

[Delinquent]

This law has already passed and signed by Jeb Bush here in Florida.

 

[Y_lifter]

This debate is not really logically debatable because it really comes down to when YOU believe Life begins.. Depending on where YOU believe it starts is usually where your opinion on this issue lies.. Not really religious in nature, but really more about this one mindset...

IMO, this isn't an anti abortion issue, it is more a Minors need for Medical Parental Notification issue, and should not be clouded by other "valid" concerns regarding Womens birth rights and unwanted pregnancy causes and society lack of concern over the family breakdown.

If the Parents are unable to support the child, then it is no different than a child that is a ward of the state getting consent from the state to get a surgical procedure.

If the minors Father is the cause of the pregnancy due to incest, then that is a criminal case and of course she should not need his consent (duh)..

Does the fine print of these type laws state Parental Notification or Parental Consent ?

I have seen most state a need of Notification.. not Consent.

I agree with the need of Notification, and less with the need for consent..

 

[SoKlueles]

a guy who screws a girl, gets her pregnant, then leaves is not the same as abortion....abortion is killing a life form reguardless of the stage of pregnancy..it has potential to be a person in this life and people are stripping that right away...i understand that there are less fortunate children out there who were born to a teenage girl and the father left..but there are other things you can do instead of abortion...here in Mass they have baby safe haven where you can drop off the new born and never look back. I would say that 98-100 percent of the people who do this severly regret it after all is said and done.and if people are going to abort innocent babies than maybe they should not screw!!!!!!!!

i really like this reply

 

[bluepeter]

Thats an asinine statement. Parental rights include the father as well, I think its pretty retarded to frame the debate with one parent left out simply b/c he is a male with a penis whether pro or con, how dumb is that.


And abortion, pro or con, is a human rights issue debate, it doesnt have anything to do with anatomy. Der

Two posts by you and both abusive and derogatory. Stop using an alter to try and stir up shit. Add something to the board or fuck off.

 

[bluepeter]

My opinion is that a minor wanting an abortion should need parental consent. They need to be accompanied by an adult to see a scary movie but can get an abortion by themselves? Seems strange.

 

[SoKlueles]

Ok this is what i think
When i was young, i was over 18 but I was on birth control and i went to the local health department.....and because I didnt want my parents to know, they would send me a postcard with a butterfly on it to tell me it was time to come back for a refill....
I think the way they see it, getting an unconsented parents consent is better than using a coathanger....but i totally agree.......parents should be consented to do ANYTHING.....even birth control

 

[Becoming]

IMO, this isn't an anti abortion issue, it is more a Minors need for Medical Parental Notification issue, and should not be clouded by other "valid" concerns regarding Womens birth rights and unwanted pregnancy causes and society lack of concern over the family breakdown.

I agree that this shoudl be maintained as an issue of parental notification/consent and not a abortion issue.

Ok this is what i think
When i was young, i was over 18 but I was on birth control and i went to the local health department.....and because I didnt want my parents to know, they would send me a postcard with a butterfly on it to tell me it was time to come back for a refill....
I think the way they see it, getting an unconsented parents consent is better than using a coathanger....but i totally agree.......parents should be consented to do ANYTHING.....even birth control

So therefore what do parents know about what their child should and shouldn't do? I mean if the government and some politician that has never met the kid thinks it is okay for the child it should be okay right? I mean if the kid thinks they should be having sex and the state thinks it is okay to give them birthcontrol without parents consent then therefore the parents concern that the child is too imature for sex at this point is totally irrelavent, correct?

I mean what the hell do parents know about raising their kids right? The state obviously knows better.

This is so fucked up, I can't wait till this blows up and people are saying "how did our kids get so fucked up and out of control" Oh wait, it is already happening.

 

[Cutiebaby]

My opinion is that a minor wanting an abortion should need parental consent. They need to be accompanied by an adult to see a scary movie but can get an abortion by themselves? Seems strange.

i agree with this reply in most states you have to be 18 or older to do most things..i think i decision like this should recommend a parent or legal guardian being there or atleast giving the doc the ok

 

[SoKlueles]

I agree that this shoudl be maintained as an issue of parental notification/consent and not a abortion issue.


So therefore what do parents know about what their child should and shouldn't do? I mean if the government and some politician that has never met the kid thinks it is okay for the child it should be okay right? I mean if the kid thinks they should be having sex and the state thinks it is okay to give them birthcontrol without parents consent then therefore the parents concern that the child is too imature for sex at this point is totally irrelavent, correct?

I mean what the hell do parents know about raising their kids right? The state obviously knows better.

This is so fucked up, I can't wait till this blows up and people are saying "how did our kids get so fucked up and out of control" Oh wait, it is already happening.

No, i agree with a kid getting consent from a parent......i think that a parent should know everything going on with their kids, albeit an abortion, birthcontrol anything.....I was just trying to explain how the govt works

 

[Becoming]

No, i agree with a kid getting consent from a parent......i think that a parent should know everything going on with their kids, albeit an abortion, birthcontrol anything.....I was just trying to explain how the govt works

ah, sorry I misinterpreted you.

I agree that parents deserve to know EVERYTHING that goes on with their kids.

 

[SoKlueles]

ah, sorry I misinterpreted you.

I agree that parents deserve to know EVERYTHING that goes on with their kids.

its all good
but alot of ppl on this board know how i feel about abortion period....and i was very hesitant on getting into a flame with this thread but i did

 

[Becoming]

its all good
but alot of ppl on this board know how i feel about abortion period....and i was very hesitant on getting into a flame with this thread but i did

I think the key is remembering this should not be looked at as abortion, rather parent rights to consent and notification...

if this goes then what next? plastic surgery? etc etc....

this is just being used as a platform to further erode the rights of parents over their children by removing their authority.....

 

[SoKlueles]

I think the key is remembering this should not be looked at as abortion, rather parent rights to consent and notification...

if this goes then what next? plastic surgery? etc etc....

this is just being used as a platform to further erode the rights of parents over their children by removing their authority.....

yep and giving underaged children more power than the people that brought them into this world

 

[bluepeter]

I think the key is remembering this should not be looked at as abortion, rather parent rights to consent and notification...

if this goes then what next? plastic surgery? etc etc....

this is just being used as a platform to further erode the rights of parents over their children by removing their authority.....

Right on. Forget about abortion and that debate, anything that is a serious and adult decision needs to have adult consent.

 

[PolfaJelfa]

a guy who screws a girl, gets her pregnant, then leaves is not the same as abortion....abortion is killing a life form reguardless of the stage of pregnancy..it has potential to be a person in this life and people are stripping that right away...i understand that there are less fortunate children out there who were born to a teenage girl and the father left..but there are other things you can do instead of abortion...here in Mass they have baby safe haven where you can drop off the new born and never look back. I would say that 98-100 percent of the people who do this severly regret it after all is said and done.and if people are going to abort innocent babies than maybe they should not screw!!!!!!!!

Right on girl, couldnt of put it better myself.
God Bless You


I hate when stupid ignorant liberals say well its my choice. Bitch it is your choice if you take a crap or piss, if you inject intravenous cocaine, somke , drink, take it up the ass. But when you produce another human being, you are not controling your body. You are controling a defensless human being which is not you, its another person. So freedom of choice. Well wish to kill you stupid ignorant ludicrous liberals. Hey its my choice, hey i should be abel to choose even though im not impacting my own body impacting the body of the person i kill.

Freedom of choice my ass... Liberals where is the choice in NYC, Chicago and Washington Dc for a law abiding citizen to be allowed to protect him/her self without tyranicall restrictions for firearms while the gangbangers rape his wife and children. You liberals hate America hate the Constitution , our forefathers , the freedoms for which we stand UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

Yes i said GOD.

I have a freedom of choice, my choice is to exterminate liberals.

 

[bluepeter]

Right on girl, couldnt of put it better myself.
God Bless You


I hate when stupid ignorant liberals say well its my choice. Bitch it is your choice if you take a crap or piss, if you inject intravenous cocaine, somke , drink, take it up the ass. But when you produce another human being, you are not controling your body. You are controling a defensless human being which is not you, its another person. So freedom of choice. Well wish to kill you stupid ignorant ludicrous liberals. Hey its my choice, hey i should be abel to choose even though im not impacting my own body impacting the body of the person i kill.

Freedom of choice my ass... Liberals where is the choice in NYC, Chicago and Washington Dc for a law abiding citizen to be allowed to protect him/her self without tyranicall restrictions for firearms while the gangbangers rape his wife and children. You liberals hate America hate the Constitution , our forefathers , the freedoms for which we stand UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

Yes i said GOD.

I have a freedom of choice, my choice is to exterminate liberals.

Well at least the intelligent and rational discourse lasted a few posts.

 

[jestros]

I hate when stupid ignorant liberals say well its my choice. Bitch it is your choice if you take a crap or piss, if you inject intravenous cocaine, somke , drink, take it up the ass. But when you produce another human being, you are not controling your body. You are controling a defensless human being which is not you, its another person. So freedom of choice. Well wish to kill you stupid ignorant ludicrous liberals. Hey its my choice, hey i should be abel to choose even though im not impacting my own body impacting the body of the person i kill.

Wow, who let this jackass be a mod?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Common sense on abortion

(1) It should be legal. People either own their bodies or we do not.

(2) It should NEVER be taxpayer funded.

(2a) Taxpayers should fund awareness programs for other alternatives - adoption, etc.

(3) Parental notification is a must. You can't even get an aspirin if you;re a kid without parental consent.

(4) It's wrong. "Do unto others..." ya know? Sure am glad no one did it to me.

(5) Refer to #1 to justify wrong with legal. The greater wrong is state control of human bodies.

 

[UA_Iron]

Right on girl, couldnt of put it better myself.
God Bless You


I hate when stupid ignorant liberals say well its my choice. Bitch it is your choice if you take a crap or piss, if you inject intravenous cocaine, somke , drink, take it up the ass. But when you produce another human being, you are not controling your body. You are controling a defensless human being which is not you, its another person. So freedom of choice. Well wish to kill you stupid ignorant ludicrous liberals. Hey its my choice, hey i should be abel to choose even though im not impacting my own body impacting the body of the person i kill.

Freedom of choice my ass... Liberals where is the choice in NYC, Chicago and Washington Dc for a law abiding citizen to be allowed to protect him/her self without tyranicall restrictions for firearms while the gangbangers rape his wife and children. You liberals hate America hate the Constitution , our forefathers , the freedoms for which we stand UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

Yes i said GOD.

I have a freedom of choice, my choice is to exterminate liberals.

maybe we should impose mandatory abortions on some people....

 

[Becoming]

Common sense on abortion

(1) It should be legal. People either own their bodies or we do not.

(2) It should NEVER be taxpayer funded.

(2a) Taxpayers should fund awareness programs for other alternatives - adoption, etc.

(3) Parental notification is a must. You can't even get an aspirin if you;re a kid without parental consent.

(4) It's wrong. "Do unto others..." ya know? Sure am glad no one did it to me.

(5) Refer to #1 to justify wrong with legal. The greater wrong is state control of human bodies.

dude seriously why don't you go into politics? too logical probably for that line of work... common sense probably wouldn't last long in reality in politics.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

dude seriously why don't you go into politics? too logical probably for that line of work... common sense probably wouldn't last long in reality in politics.

All things in time.

 

[UA_Iron]

Right on girl, couldnt of put it better myself.
God Bless You


I hate when stupid ignorant liberals say well its my choice. Bitch it is your choice if you take a crap or piss, if you inject intravenous cocaine, somke , drink, take it up the ass. But when you produce another human being, you are not controling your body. You are controling a defensless human being which is not you, its another person. So freedom of choice. Well wish to kill you stupid ignorant ludicrous liberals. Hey its my choice, hey i should be abel to choose even though im not impacting my own body impacting the body of the person i kill.

Freedom of choice my ass... Liberals where is the choice in NYC, Chicago and Washington Dc for a law abiding citizen to be allowed to protect him/her self without tyranicall restrictions for firearms while the gangbangers rape his wife and children. You liberals hate America hate the Constitution , our forefathers , the freedoms for which we stand UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

Yes i said GOD.

I have a freedom of choice, my choice is to exterminate liberals.

Its always the conservatives that make the worst logical fallacies of all (there's humor in that sentence...if you caught it then you'd know I was guilty of exactly what they do).

So what am I going to do? I am going to take a single case and apply it to ALL conservatives...
remember this article? http://www.alternet.org/story/22048

That happens to be a Republican congressman supporting that legislation, therefore I feel all republicans must be exterminated.

eat a dick.

 

[Becoming]

All things in time.

well good, when it happens, let me know, cause I am fucking moving there.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Wow, who let this jackass be a mod?

Hi.

There is no rule against mods having strong opinions, even those with which you disagree.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Bitches look at my map..its all red....we have the house, senate, states, president, apointees, next will come supreme court.

You will never see the white house again. By the time we will be thru you will be wining and screaming.

Im not surprised you are all bitching. Avoiding the truth. When is a nother human being a womans body. ITS NOT! GET IT STRAIT!

You liberals are loosing everything and are going to be extinct soon....enjoy what you have....its not long now!

LMFAO....we CONTROL THIS COUNTRY.....what part dont you get.....bush stole this elelction too? Bigest win in history!

Dumbasses.

Die SLOW

Check your PM.

 

[Y_lifter]

Freedom of choice my ass... Liberals where is the choice in NYC, Chicago and Washington Dc for a law abiding citizen to be allowed to protect him/her self without tyranicall restrictions for firearms while the gangbangers rape his wife and children.

Come to Florida after July, and you can kill all the liberals you want
that are assaulting you without need to retreat..

 

[jestros]

You will never see the white house again. By the time we will be thru you will be wining and screaming.

Im not surprised you are all bitching. Avoiding the truth. When is a nother human being a womans body. ITS NOT! GET IT STRAIT!

You liberals are loosing everything and are going to be extinct soon....enjoy what you have....its not long now!

LMFAO....we CONTROL THIS COUNTRY.....what part dont you get.....bush stole this elelction too? Bigest win in history!

Dumbasses.

You are obviously very well educated, I'm not going to cross intellectual swords with you!

 

[jestros]

Hi.

There is no rule against mods having strong opinions, even those with which you disagree.

Hey, wazzzup!!
I have nothing against having strong opinons, it's just how they are presented that can be a problem. I know you have strong opinions and have never said anything about you being a mod, but this guy is a jackhole. Exterminate all liberals? Come on, jeeezus. And he's only been here a few months.
Time for a de-moding!

 

[Y_lifter]

Does anyone know..

is PolfaJelfa Spellwins nephew or some such ?

 

[PolfaJelfa]

I have been here since 2001.

I will write what i want WHEN I WANTas long as it isnt against the rules.

WHY? Because i dont post on this forum. I am an anabolic MOD.
I came here for 1 thread.

CHAT AND CONVERSATION...where everything is open.
It is my right to say i want to exterminate all lliberals....wheather it makes me a jackass or not. That is my STAND. That is what i believe.

Obviously you do not believe in freedom of speech. I believe liberals need to be taken out of office. I will not shame from my oppinions.

 

[bluepeter]

Hi.

There is no rule against mods having strong opinions, even those with which you disagree.

That's great and I agree, nothing wrong with strong opinions. Inflammatory remarks and derogatory language advocating the extermination of people who have different ideological beliefs is another matter however.

 

[Y_lifter]

I am an anabolic MOD.

Welcome bro..

Is it really as insane over there as we have been led to believe ?
What kind of Stacks are you on ?

Does this mean you aren't related to the Spellmans ?

 

[PolfaJelfa]

I do not advocate violence.....as i said..... "I believe liberals need to be taken out of office." That is what i mean by extermination. It is also my view that any person who gets an abortion is scum. Thats my oppinion.

 

[PolfaJelfa]

Im on 300g of protein a day. A multivitamin. And 2.5 gallons of water a day.

 

[Y_lifter]

Im on 300g of protein a day. A multivitamin. And 2.5 gallons of water a day.

Cool.. Sounds like you can Moderate those Roid Rage types with that sorta mix..

Did you know that too much water is hard on the Liver and Kidneys ?
True... And I'm not even a Mod..

 

[UA_Iron]

I dont know about that. There's been studies that say you cant get enough water. In any case I cant post them because I dont know where they are.

I dont know why I get involved in abortion threads...

 

[PolfaJelfa]

Cool.. Sounds like you can Moderate those Roid Rage types with that sorta mix..

Did you know that too much water is hard on the Liver and Kidneys ?
True... And I'm not even a Mod..

2.5 galons of watter is not too much water. Water hard on your kidneys?

 

[Y_lifter]

Google "too much water"...
below are the first 3 or many that come up.

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/5/f/blwaterintox.htm
http://www.hhp.ufl.edu/keepingfit/ARTICLE/toomuchwater.htm
http://www.ivillage.co.uk/health/hlive/eat/articles/0,,181168_588681,00.html

Please take this back to your board...

 

[patsfan1379]

I'm pretty anti-abortion... Is there a law or time that says when a sperm & egg cell thingy is actually considered a separate person?

 

[AAP]

2.5 galons of watter is not too much water. Water hard on your kidneys?

Yes. Too much water is just as harmful/dangerous as too little water.

 

[curling]

The reason why this law is even being considered is because of the left wing making money off killing babies for a profit. I am really starting to think liberal people are just plain evil. I mean they want people to be able to screw and then they want to kill babies as a result of it. So inotherwords they are wanting people to break two of God's laws all for a profit.

Did ya'll say Jeb signed this into law in Florida where they do have to have consent or don't have to consent from the parents? I got lost on that.

 

[danielson]

This debate is not really logically debatable because it really comes down to when YOU believe Life begins.. Depending on where YOU believe it starts is usually where your opinion on this issue lies.. Not really religious in nature, but really more about this one mindset...

IMO, this isn't an anti abortion issue, it is more a Minors need for Medical Parental Notification issue, and should not be clouded by other "valid" concerns regarding Womens birth rights and unwanted pregnancy causes and society lack of concern over the family breakdown.

If the Parents are unable to support the child, then it is no different than a child that is a ward of the state getting consent from the state to get a surgical procedure.

If the minors Father is the cause of the pregnancy due to incest, then that is a criminal case and of course she should not need his consent (duh)..

Does the fine print of these type laws state Parental Notification or Parental Consent ?

I have seen most state a need of Notification.. not Consent.

I agree with the need of Notification, and less with the need for consent..

agreed too....whilst parental notification is entirely proper due to the child being a minor and this (pregnancy) being considered inappropriate for a child, you cannot IMO force anyone to be pregnant when they do not wish to

A child has to be competant to make the descision as to whether they want the abortion. If they understand and comprehend their health state, realise the risks and benefits, recieve councelling independant of any stimatisation and still have the same point of view it is their right to have autonomy over their body whatever their age

This is in my mind independant of the arguement of abortion....Many think of the arguement of having a famous person hooked up to you like a siamese twin because they hae kidney failure etc, and that he can be disconnected after an 9months and will probably be ok, but as a result extra physiological stresses and risks will be placed on your body

pro-choicers argue that if you decided against this you should be allowed as it is your body, and this fact doesnt change by being a minor or not

 

[Daisy_]

abortion is fuckin wrong.

.

 

[needtogetaas]

That's crazy.
You can't have any other surgical procedure in the US without parental consent/signature as a minor so this shouldn't be any different.

thats all that needs to be said.

 

[patsfan1379]

agreed too....whilst parental notification is entirely proper due to the child being a minor and this (pregnancy) being considered inappropriate for a child, you cannot IMO force anyone to be pregnant when they do not wish to

A child has to be competant to make the descision as to whether they want the abortion. If they understand and comprehend their health state, realise the risks and benefits, recieve councelling independant of any stimatisation and still have the same point of view it is their right to have autonomy over their body whatever their age

This is in my mind independant of the arguement of abortion....Many think of the arguement of having a famous person hooked up to you like a siamese twin because they hae kidney failure etc, and that he can be disconnected after an 9months and will probably be ok, but as a result extra physiological stresses and risks will be placed on your body

pro-choicers argue that if you decided against this you should be allowed as it is your body, and this fact doesnt change by being a minor or not

say what?

 

[curling]

say what?

\

I second the "say what?"

 

[danielson]

basically i think anyone that is mentally competent of their situation and the outcomes should be able to have one without the consent of parents

 

[Becoming]

basically i think anyone that is mentally competent of their situation and the outcomes should be able to have one without the consent of parents

which if you are young is nearly everyone under 18... if you are older is practically no one under 18 (cause you have seen reality, unlike most under 18)

 

[danielson]

if a person can understand what is their medical condition, realise the outcome, what risks there are and what benefits there are, takes time to contemplate the descision and talks about it to councillors, and faced with all those choices makes the descsion they want, then i think they are competent to make it

notifying parents before hand allows the woman in question to be placed under duress and not necessarily be taking the course of action she wants


Ideally the best thing to do is try to introduce social reform to show children that sex doesnt have to be commenced so early, but with the abundance of sex (media, clothing, films) its no wonder kids are having sex so early

 

[UA_Iron]

has anyone heard the band "Aborted" ?

they kick ass.

 

[curling]

if a person can understand what is their medical condition, realise the outcome, what risks there are and what benefits there are, takes time to contemplate the descision and talks about it to councillors, and faced with all those choices makes the descsion they want, then i think they are competent to make it

notifying parents before hand allows the woman in question to be placed under duress and not necessarily be taking the course of action she wants

The key word you used is "woman". A girl isn't a woman yet she is just a girl that can get pregnant. And those damn abortion clinics don't ever tell the victom and victom's baby what they are doing is legalized killing which is going to scar the girl when she becomes a woman. All the damn abortion clinic and abortion butchers want is to make money for killing. And I use the word damn literally in this instance.

Ideally the best thing to do is try to introduce social reform to show children that sex doesnt have to be commenced so early, but with the abundance of sex (media, clothing, films) its no wonder kids are having sex so early

Agreed. It should commence when they get married.

 

[danielson]

The key word you used is "woman". A girl isn't a woman yet she is just a girl that can get pregnant. And those damn abortion clinics don't ever tell the victom and victom's baby what they are doing is legalized killing which is going to scar the girl when she becomes a woman. All the damn abortion clinic and abortion butchers want is to make money for killing. And I use the word damn literally in this instance.

its your opinion as to what constitutes killing as far as a pregnancy goes

but serioiusly, what separates a competent 15yr old from a competent 22yr old? why should one be allowed 'the right to choose' what happens to her body, but the other not allowed unless her parents agree? you really think its acceptable to force anyone to place their body under medical stress just because of their age and regardless of their mental capacities (lets assume the issue of whether abortion is right or not is removed)

IMO its a double standard to say a 22yr old can choose but a competent 15yr old could concievably be forced to do something like that to herself





As for whether social reform should come when they marry i think it should come earlier. sex before marriage is acceptable but when you hear about 14yr olds having orgies you know something is just plain wrong, the media and business use sex far too much to sell goods, they should be boycotted and held to account, no 11yr old should be buying thongs, no 12 yr old should be wearing miniskirts, fuck me boots and a crop top...If a girl dresses like she wants sex she will want it or get it, just like when an animal makes mating calls...younger boys aren more slaves to their DNA than elder so it baffles me why people are so suprised teen pregnancy is what it is

 

[Pamela]

I have a freedom of choice, my choice is to exterminate liberals.[/QUOTE]


What do you mean by exterminate?


Just wondering!

 

[mountain muscle]

Don't agree? DON'T have one. Educate your kids not to be foolish sluts first. This goes for both sexes. But do not even think you can tell someone else what to do with their body and future.

 

[patsfan1379]

its your opinion as to what constitutes killing as far as a pregnancy goes

but serioiusly, what separates a competent 15yr old from a competent 22yr old? why should one be allowed 'the right to choose' what happens to her body, but the other not allowed unless her parents agree? you really think its acceptable to force anyone to place their body under medical stress just because of their age and regardless of their mental capacities (lets assume the issue of whether abortion is right or not is removed)

IMO its a double standard to say a 22yr old can choose but a competent 15yr old could concievably be forced to do something like that to herself





As for whether social reform should come when they marry i think it should come earlier. sex before marriage is acceptable but when you hear about 14yr olds having orgies you know something is just plain wrong, the media and business use sex far too much to sell goods, they should be boycotted and held to account, no 11yr old should be buying thongs, no 12 yr old should be wearing miniskirts, fuck me boots and a crop top...If a girl dresses like she wants sex she will want it or get it, just like when an animal makes mating calls...younger boys aren more slaves to their DNA than elder so it baffles me why people are so suprised teen pregnancy is what it is

no one in their teens is "competent" very little of them can actually see the real consequenses of their actions. At that age you have tunnel vision.

Their sense of "resposibility" of vastly different than someone older.

Altough I don't think everyone at that age is incompetent. To try and judge every person on a case by case basis would be insane...

What one person defines as "competent", another wouldnt... It is a complete judgement issue.

This is a decision that can't be made on judgement of a persons mindset.

It is like the courts... Everyone might know the person is guilty, but without the evidence, you cannot convict... If you convict people on a "gut feeling" etc... You run into a whole different issue....

Feel me?

 

[Eringobraugh]

Two posts by you and both abusive and derogatory. Add something to the board or fuck off.

Quit poststalking me and humping my leg. He made an asinine statement and people agreed with my conclusion. Thats not starting shit as I qualified my statement and then you tell me to fuck off. Thats super retarded as you make a worse offensive statement making you a total jackass hippocrite. Stating that a father has no rights and no say b/c he has a 'dick' is asinine. Look at the language people use to describe liberals in this thread which is far worse than anything Ive said yet you choose to single me out for using the word "asinine" its not abusive or derogatory, its simply an opinion. Time to grow up bluepeter! You dont like my posts then dont read them, quit trying to be the thread police here and quit sniffing my ass every time I post. If you dont like my posts then I suggest you follow your own advice and fuck off.

 

[Eringobraugh]

That's great and I agree, nothing wrong with strong opinions. Inflammatory remarks and derogatory language advocating the extermination of people who have different ideological beliefs is another matter however.

Yet when I state the strong opinion that a statement is asinine you tell me to fuck off and it wasnt even in regards to your post. POT meet Mr KETTLE!!

 

[patsfan1379]

Quit poststalking me and humping my leg. He made an asinine statement and people agreed with my conclusion. Thats not starting shit as I qualified my statement and then you tell me to fuck off. Thats super retarded as you make a worse offensive statement making you a total jackass hippocrite. Stating that a father has no rights and no say b/c he has a 'dick' is asinine. Look at the language people use to describe liberals in this thread which is far worse than anything Ive said yet you choose to single me out for using the word "asinine" its not abusive or derogatory, its simply an opinion. Time to grow up bluepeter! You dont like my posts then dont read them, quit trying to be the thread police here and quit sniffing my ass every time I post. If you dont like my posts then I suggest you follow your own advice and fuck off.

Oh snap.

 

[danielson]

no one in their teens is "competent" very little of them can actually see the real consequenses of their actions. At that age you have tunnel vision.

Their sense of "resposibility" of vastly different than someone older.

Altough I don't think everyone at that age is incompetent. To try and judge every person on a case by case basis would be insane...

What one person defines as "competent", another wouldnt... It is a complete judgement issue.

This is a decision that can't be made on judgement of a persons mindset.

It is like the courts... Everyone might know the person is guilty, but without the evidence, you cannot convict... If you convict people on a "gut feeling" etc... You run into a whole different issue....

Feel me?

I agree with you completely that most teenagers aren;t responsible at that age, particularly when they are experiencing new feelings based on their hormones and sexual development and characteristics in girls changing

but I do think that a 14yr old who is mentally of sound mind can understand what it means to be pregnant, what the outcomes of the pregnancy might be and based on that be competent enough to consent to a medical procedure on her own. Just as much as a 21yr old can...Dr's can apply the same rules of assessing competency, and while they may spend more time in councelling pre-abortion with the younger patient the outcome is just as likely to be the same

To me its excactly the same as its an issue of autonomy over your body, and you have that right whatever your age

 

[curling]

I agree with you completely that most teenagers aren;t responsible at that age, particularly when they are experiencing new feelings based on their hormones and sexual development and characteristics in girls changing

but I do think that a 14yr old who is mentally of sound mind can understand what it means to be pregnant, what the outcomes of the pregnancy might be and based on that be competent enough to consent to a medical procedure on her own. Just as much as a 21yr old can...Dr's can apply the same rules of assessing competency, and while they may spend more time in councelling pre-abortion with the younger patient the outcome is just as likely to be the same

To me its excactly the same as its an issue of autonomy over your body, and you have that right whatever your age

I am going to shoot your point down in flames sorry danielson. You know I bet some 18 year olds could drink responsibly yet they are not allowed to even though they are old enough to fight for our country. Some 16 year olds are probably more competent voters than 18 yet they are not allowed to vote.

And back to your competent 15 year old that is smart enough to know everything about risks of abortion yet she is incompetent enough to get pregnant in the first place? She don't sound to competent to me dude.

Parents generally care more about their kids than anyone else in this world why wouldn't you want their imput on such a life killing/changing action.?

 

[patsfan1379]

I don't know man...

A person can't smoke at 18 because they don't get the consequences... I'm sure, yeah they understand that it is bad for you... But they dont understand the very real and very certain chance of death.

A person can't drink until 21 because they can't handle the responsibility. Sure they know they are drunk, but they don't understand the consequences of hittiung and killing a person behind the wheel.

This is something on a completely different level... this is abortion... I do not believe a 14 year old girl understands life enough to make this decision on her own. I just dont.

It is almost like allowing a 14 year old to play with a gun. They understand the danger so they should be allowed to do what they want?

I'm just not convinced.

 

[curling]

Petsfan,

I am on your side dude. I don't think abortion should be legal period.

 

[bluepeter]

Quit poststalking me and humping my leg. He made an asinine statement and people agreed with my conclusion. Thats not starting shit as I qualified my statement and then you tell me to fuck off. Thats super retarded as you make a worse offensive statement making you a total jackass hippocrite. Stating that a father has no rights and no say b/c he has a 'dick' is asinine. Look at the language people use to describe liberals in this thread which is far worse than anything Ive said yet you choose to single me out for using the word "asinine" its not abusive or derogatory, its simply an opinion. Time to grow up bluepeter! You dont like my posts then dont read them, quit trying to be the thread police here and quit sniffing my ass every time I post. If you dont like my posts then I suggest you follow your own advice and fuck off.

Was the guys assertion asinine? Yes. The problem here, which you don't seem to get since your intelligence mirrors that of Dan Quayle's offspring, is that you are an alter on here for the express purpose of stirring up shit. You only come into a thread after dozens of people have posted opinions ON THE TOPIC to post some inflammatory shit denigrating someone. You want to debate the actual point in a mature and intelligent manner perhaps? Ah, but that would hardly be fun, much more interesting to hide behind a second or third persona and call people names. Telling me to grow up is the ultimate irony coming from someone with enough time to create multiple alters on a fitness site to hide behind and post childish crap to amuse himself. Perhaps you should join the EF version of a support group to help you validate your commiserable existence. The leader is lestat and I believe the group is called the iron cocks? Might be good for you...........brotha

 

[Eringobraugh]

Was the guys assertion asinine? Yes. The problem here, which you don't seem to get since your intelligence mirrors that of Dan Quayle's offspring, is that you are an alter on here for the express purpose of stirring up shit. You only come into a thread after dozens of people have posted opinions ON THE TOPIC to post some inflammatory shit denigrating someone. You want to debate the actual point in a mature and intelligent manner perhaps? Ah, but that would hardly be fun, much more interesting to hide behind a second or third persona and call people names. Telling me to grow up is the ultimate irony coming from someone with enough time to create multiple alters on a fitness site to hide behind and post childish crap to amuse himself. Perhaps you should join the EF version of a support group to help you validate your commiserable existence. The leader is lestat and I believe the group is called the iron cocks? Might be good for you...........brotha

See once again, Pot meet Mr Kettle. I made the #7 post to Sublime a friend who I PM with and the #9 posts stating a valid objection to an asinine position, not starting shit at all and just look at what youre trying to do. Then you come back and follow me around with all of this juvenile stuff. Grow up!

 

[Y_lifter]

And back to your competent 15 year old that is smart enough to know everything about risks of abortion yet she is incompetent enough to get pregnant in the first place? She don't sound to competent to me dude.

Holy crap.. A logical thought that I agree with has escaped curling' brain...

Isn't that the second sign or seal of the apocalypse ?

 

[patsfan1379]

Personally, to me I am against abortion... But I don't think it is my place to tell people whether it shoud be legal or not.

And Curling... For shits sakes.... Its PATSFAN..... NOT PETSFAN!!!!

 

[curling]

Personally, to me I am against abortion... But I don't think it is my place to tell people whether it shoud be legal or not.

And Curling... For shits sakes.... Its PATSFAN..... NOT PETSFAN!!!!

Whoops sorry. What the heck does patsfan mean anyway?

 

[patsfan1379]

Patriots Fan.

New England Patriots.

What the hell is a Curling?

 

[curling]

LOL. You know like doing curls. Actually I picked it real fast one day when I first registered to find out a juice question never thought I would waste so much of my time here otherwise I would have put more thought into it. Like Freeway Wheelie Billy or something.

 

[bluepeter]

LOL. You know like doing curls. Actually I picked it real fast one day when I first registered to find out a juice question never thought I would waste so much of my time here otherwise I would have put more thought into it. Like Freeway Wheelie Billy or something.

I thought it was a reference to you curling your hair since you highlight it

 

[PolfaJelfa]

MY POINT IS THAT 2.5 galons of water is not harmfull for someone 6'1 285 lbs.

END OF POINT! Dont be such a smartass.

If you are loosing alot of water due to perspiration and need to flush your system so kidneys stay healthy. This is not too much. It may be for someone 120 lbs. But for me it is not.

 

[Y_lifter]

MY POINT IS THAT 2.5 galons of water is not harmfull for someone 6'1 285 lbs.

END OF POINT! Dont be such a smartass.

I wasn't being a smart ass, nor stating 2.5 Gal was harmful, I was
just simply answering your with a posting of links showing that the issue is a valid one..

Now END OF POINT!

 

[HumorMe]

This is so fucked up, I can't wait till this blows up and people are saying "how did our kids get so fucked up and out of control" Oh wait, it is already happening.

I think it is already out of control. Kids are so fucked up now they will probably never recover.

 

[Becoming]

And back to your competent 15 year old that is smart enough to know everything about risks of abortion yet she is incompetent enough to get pregnant in the first place? She don't sound to competent to me dude.

This was a pretty brilliant argument. (so simple, yet so true)

Nice work curling.

 

[patsfan1379]

ageed.

 

[PolfaJelfa]

I wasn't being a smart ass, nor stating 2.5 Gal was harmful, I was
just simply answering your with a posting of links showing that the issue is a valid one..

Now END OF POINT!

I agree with your posted links. I simply misunderstood your post. I though you were trying to tell me my water intake was unhealthy. I more than agree that too much water will cause watter poisoning.

I was wrong to call you a smartass.
I appologize.

 

[danielson]

I am going to shoot your point down in flames sorry danielson. You know I bet some 18 year olds could drink responsibly yet they are not allowed to even though they are old enough to fight for our country. Some 16 year olds are probably more competent voters than 18 yet they are not allowed to vote.

And back to your competent 15 year old that is smart enough to know everything about risks of abortion yet she is incompetent enough to get pregnant in the first place? She don't sound to competent to me dude.

Parents generally care more about their kids than anyone else in this world why wouldn't you want their imput on such a life killing/changing action.?

you are right in that she obviously wasnt too smart to get pregnant in the first place, or at least extremely unlucky

but I am also drawing a distinction between the two. Given the stigma and incredibly personal feelings associated with pregnancy, if a 15yr old exhibits medical competence (i.e. can understand the outcomes and feelings associated with an abortion) I feel she can have it. She may have been too immature to realise that the only reason a 19yr old is going out with her is for easy sex and he's too lame to get someone his own age, but that is entirely separate to the competence to allow an abortion

To give an non abortion example, lets say a 14yr old jehovah's witness goes hunting with his friends without an orange hunting jacket, as they dont sell them to under 16's. He's never hunted before (judged too immature previously)

during the hunting trip he gets nicked in the arm and looses some blood. At the hospital, they find that while he is not going to die within 24hrs (bleeding gets controlled) he is in need of a blood transfusion. His parents refuse consent, on the grounds that they are jehovah's witnesses and do not believe in transfusions, and as his legal guardians have the right to refuse consent to him

He then says to you privately that he wants a transfusion, and is not only entriely competent but is insistant that he wants one irrespective of whatever his parents views are, and that they can be told after the event (so they dont try to stop him). If he were 18 they wouldnt even be asked

Would you deny him that transfusion, knowing that even though he is more than likely to live he will be miserable for a while as his body struggles to make new blood? he should not have been hunting at his age but it doesnt change the fact that he wants a transfusion, and his parents dont. Ultimately its his body and his choice, and its the same for a 14yr old wanting an abortion, as long as they are mentally and psychologically competent to make that descision.


In my mind this is the deciding factor in whether someone is allowed to have an abortion without parental consent. It isnt a one stop shop, they are sent to councilling and enxouraged not to rush the descision

 

[danielson]

I don't know man...

A person can't smoke at 18 because they don't get the consequences... I'm sure, yeah they understand that it is bad for you... But they dont understand the very real and very certain chance of death.

A person can't drink until 21 because they can't handle the responsibility. Sure they know they are drunk, but they don't understand the consequences of hittiung and killing a person behind the wheel.

This is something on a completely different level... this is abortion... I do not believe a 14 year old girl understands life enough to make this decision on her own. I just dont.

It is almost like allowing a 14 year old to play with a gun. They understand the danger so they should be allowed to do what they want?

I'm just not convinced.

I guess its different strokes, I see where your coming from and its a very decent point to make, applying it to the age of sexual consent I think it is absolutely spot on. However in all the cases you highlight, a person who has no medical condition or affliction is about to partake in behaviour which could be dangerous or hazardous if not done sensibly

This situation to me is different because the initial lack of judgement has already happened (she has had sex) and as a result she now has a medical condition (positive or negative dependant on outlook). She now is potentially going to be forced to do something to her body for 9months which she does not want to do and be forced to carry the child/foetus to term, irrespective of the reasons for pregancy (contraception failure could be a reason)

However someone a few years older will be allowed to have an abortion with exactly the same thoughts and emotion and stigma, because of the arguement she has a right to do with her body what she wants to.

To me to say you only have autonomy over your body when you are 18yrs old but not before in this situation (exteme physiological stress) and be forced to continue with it is something I dont agree with

Using an example of medical stress on the body, do you think a 15yr old should be able to choose what happens to them if they are at emotional or physical risk? These are the reasons set up to allow an abortion in the first place under the abortion act and they occur irrespective of age IMO

 

[patsfan1379]

I guess its different strokes, I see where your coming from and its a very decent point to make, applying it to the age of sexual consent I think it is absolutely spot on. However in all the cases you highlight, a person who has no medical condition or affliction is about to partake in behaviour which could be dangerous or hazardous if not done sensibly

This situation to me is different because the initial lack of judgement has already happened (she has had sex) and as a result she now has a medical condition (positive or negative dependant on outlook). She now is potentially going to be forced to do something to her body for 9months which she does not want to do and be forced to carry the child/foetus to term, irrespective of the reasons for pregancy (contraception failure could be a reason)

However someone a few years older will be allowed to have an abortion with exactly the same thoughts and emotion and stigma, because of the arguement she has a right to do with her body what she wants to.

To me to say you only have autonomy over your body when you are 18yrs old but not before in this situation (exteme physiological stress) and be forced to continue with it is something I dont agree with

Using an example of medical stress on the body, do you think a 15yr old should be able to choose what happens to them if they are at emotional or physical risk? These are the reasons set up to allow an abortion in the first place under the abortion act and they occur irrespective of age IMO

Two things:

1. Pregnancy is not a medical condition.
2. Abortion is not making a decision about one's body. It is about someone elses body...

Also... A transfusion does not harm anyone else. So of course, let him have it. An abortion is the decision to end another life.

I'm not trying to convince anyone... This is just how my mind works.

 

[danielson]

Two things:

1. Pregnancy is not a medical condition.
2. Abortion is not making a decision about one's body. It is about someone elses body...

Also... A transfusion does not harm anyone else. So of course, let him have it. An abortion is the decision to end another life.

I'm not trying to convince anyone... This is just how my mind works.

its cool its all about point of views on this one i think, pregnancy is all about how you view it to be honest, some say its the greatest thing on earth, others say look up the definition of parasite in the dictionary and thats the relationship between mother and foetus-in utero

also many do not consider a foetus alive, and that whatever happens to someone elses body, no one should force you to do something to yours, but it is again all subjective

The blood transfusion thing is all about beliefs again, JW's are dead set against them and they might feel you are harming their child as a result. many people feel that a foetus is not concious enough to be considered 'alive' or sentient, and view an abortion and a transfusions equally as 'procedures'. Ultimately though you are superceeding the parents beliefs in both cases, and many can argue the patient has benefitted in both cases

Still while I can;t and wouldnt expect to change anyones beliefs on abortion I still do think that pro or anti-abortion, removing yourself from that a 15yr old does have equal right to an abortion as an 18yrold if the arguement being used is autonomy, even if they are both 'equally wrong' in their motivation in peoples opinions

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

a guy who screws a girl, gets her pregnant, then leaves is not the same as abortion....abortion is killing a life form reguardless of the stage of pregnancy..it has potential to be a person in this life and people are stripping that right away...i understand that there are less fortunate children out there who were born to a teenage girl and the father left..but there are other things you can do instead of abortion...here in Mass they have baby safe haven where you can drop off the new born and never look back. I would say that 98-100 percent of the people who do this severly regret it after all is said and done.and if people are going to abort innocent babies than maybe they should not screw!!!!!!!!

you are absolutely ignorant.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

Two things:

1. Pregnancy is not a medical condition.
2. Abortion is not making a decision about one's body. It is about someone elses body...

Also... A transfusion does not harm anyone else. So of course, let him have it. An abortion is the decision to end another life.

I'm not trying to convince anyone... This is just how my mind works.

pregnancy is a medical condition. If not nourished properly it will kill the mother and child.

 

[Eringobraugh]

pregnancy is a medical condition. If not nourished properly it will kill the mother and child.

Well medical condition can apply to anything, but a normal pregnancy would more apt to be called a natural human condition and its funny that Danielson referred to it as a parasite, thats how it was taught to me to explain the gestation and growth. Ive worked with preemies and all of the extraordinary measures taken to help them live and you watch them grow into healthy children. Real life changes it from a political argument to flesh and blood living individuals that have constitutional rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A few cm of tissue that we can see with our eyes with ultrasound and its the same a s a premature baby that we work with, only difference is its out of sight out of mind, its like passing a peach pit as some view it.

 

[Mr. dB]

And back to your competent 15 year old that is smart enough to know everything about risks of abortion yet she is incompetent enough to get pregnant in the first place? She don't sound to competent to me dude.

Nonsense. What about a 31 year old who gets an unwanted pregnancy? Is she competent?

 

[Mr. dB]

This is in my mind independant of the arguement of abortion....Many think of the arguement of having a famous person hooked up to you like a siamese twin because they hae kidney failure etc, and that he can be disconnected after an 9months and will probably be ok, but as a result extra physiological stresses and risks will be placed on your body

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Mr. dB]

The key word you used is "woman". A girl isn't a woman yet she is just a girl that can get pregnant. And those damn abortion clinics don't ever tell the victom and victom's baby what they are doing is legalized killing which is going to scar the girl when she becomes a woman. All the damn abortion clinic and abortion butchers want is to make money for killing. And I use the word damn literally in this instance.

Hogwash. "Woman" and "Girl" are arbitrary social constructs. In all of human history, until the past couple of hundred years, a 13 year old girl was for all intents and purposes a woman.

 

[Mr. dB]

Holy crap.. A logical thought that I agree with has escaped curling' brain...

Isn't that the second sign or seal of the apocalypse ?

Go back and re-read it. There wasn't an ounce of logic involved.

 

[Eringobraugh]

What the hell are you talking about?

lol, yeah, I was a lil loss on that example too