A winter mass cycle

[majutsu]

Wow great advice guys!!

I've been going apeshit putting this together, changing my mind 50 times.

I like your ideas on the spring months BigAndy! I think I will adopt most of these suggestions. Very, very helpful.

Mustang, yeah it is (a lot). In fact, I'm going to pare it down a little, especially the EQ. Cycle history is multiple over years in spurts, pretty much everything, and in the 80s not always intelligent. Tolerance is never an issue. But getting gains can be. In fact, I'm all for paring the doses down to the lowest effective dose to grow. I was hoping that GH/slin would give me a good boost, like the science says. Do you think its effect will be noticeable, or is it just a complete waste of money like some large and experienced amateur competitors I know say?

UA. I love deads. I don't squat heavy and dead heavy in the same cycle though, too much lower back at my age. I either leg press/dead, or squat/row. I had a quad tear, couldn't squat for months, rehabbed, and love to be squatting again. So I am definitely squatting this time. I'm back up to 275, halfway home

 

[wls8687]

jesus. i wish you the best of luck with that.. that's some heavy cycling..

 

[Mavy]

Your fuckin crazy mang! lol. I wish i had the balls to run a cycle like that. I wouldnt tolerate it well, I know this for sure though, especially with the drug chioce.

I've been going apeshit putting this together, changing my mind 50 times.

- lol ... just make sure you dont buy shit bro, until you are 110%. haha. This always happens to me. I buy my gear for my planned out cycle, then when it actually comes time to start, i have completely changed my mind.

I have not prepared for a show, but from what i understand, I think the idea is to Blitz at first, then slowly taper down, and boot out the androgens near the end. Also, choose a drug as your main base.

For instance, for the first 2 months, (Jan and Feb), I would go balls to the wall. And this is when I would run your highest dosages, instead of tapering up like you are doing with your test and EQ etc. Start out high, with the proven mass builders like test/deca/dbol or abombs (I know you like those little fuckers more than dbol), but if I were going for extreme size I would run a high dose of dbol (as in 100mg or more, if you think you can tolerate it) along side a strong anabolic like Deca for 8 weeks (first 2 months). I would concentrate on stuffing as much food in my face as possible, during this time as well. Then in the 3rd month, you can start switching things up, and gradualy lowering dosages, and in April, change to hardening type drugs for your cutter. I also think it dosent have to be that complex that you change things every 4 weeks.

Here is a suggestion to get some ideas flowing based on your cycle you have planned and the dosages as well. If I were going your route, and your dosages, this is how I would try to run it. Forget December, its done.

Jan AND Feb.
Test: 2grams/wk
Deca: 600mg/wk
Dbol: 100mg/day (or whatever dose you are comfortable with)
20IU ew HGH

March
Test: 1gram/wk
EQ: 1gram/wk
Tren: 100mg/day
(no orals to give liver a break for 1 month)
20IU ew HGH

April cutter . . .
Test: 500mg/wk
EQ: 500/wk
Tren: 75/wk
Winny: 100mg/day
20IU ew HGH

50mg of Anavar per day (for 3-4 weeks) after your last shot of test, up until you start your PCT. Unless you are completely sold on using the slin, I would ditch it bro. You will have enough on your hands. This is not that fancy of a cycle. The first 2 months are for mass. The 3rd month is an "in transition" phase, and the last month is hardening. Test is run all the way. First 8 weeks, are deca. The last 8 weeks are tren and EQ. The last month, you drop the base dosages down in half, and add in some winny. Obviously with the first half being deca, and the second half being tren. I would invest in some Cabergoline, and HCG and all the other supps and ancillaries you may need.

ALso, you may want to bump the EQ dosage down, as high RBCs may be a concern when running it at a gram per week, even though it is only for 4 weeks at a gram. Thats a pretty hefty cycle, I would get blood work done every 3 weeks if I were you, and keep a close eye on things if you have never went that high before. Good luck, and keep us posted on what you decide, and how it ends up going.

Mavy

 

[majutsu]

nice post too mavy. You know, I thought of dbol 100 (and I thought of you ), but I happen to already have some abombs and the bulgs and naps are going bye-bye, so I'll see what's left.

Both you and Big Andy agree on not tapering up this late, and you are both right.

As for the slin, my wife probably loves you for saying that, as slin has her spooked. But I don't want to waste the GH without enough slin. I was going to start 5U post workout 3x a week and slowly increase dose and frequency per week until 15U post each workout. But I'm not solid on this.

I also need to reduce my volume a shade more. I was doing the 6 day split as a 3 day split. This brought my gym time from 2hrs to 1-1 1/2 hours, but still draining. So I'm going to do three heavy sets and maybe 2 sets of each light exercise. I also need to strike dumbell movements for bars now, as getting them into position is now more limiting than the muscle, and that's not good for growth. I will post up my revised cycle and workout when finalized.

You all have been most helpful solidifying this. Please keep the good stuff coming!

 

[BigAndy69]

You should post about which bodyparts need the most work, and which ones are your best...it would help me go through your training program...are you satisfied with it?

 

[majutsu]

Chest, Traps, Legs are good.

Tris are mediocre.

Back, Shoulders, Bis and Abs are piss poor.

And I am never satisfied.

 

[Madcow2]

On the training:

Coming from the strength and conditioning world, during a bulking phase those who get the best results (both chemically assisted and natural) use the KISS principal in their workouts. Your workouts are kind of like life, you can only get good at a limited amount of things at one time. If you want big legs - you squat (i.e. most bang for your buck) - and you work on your squat over a period of time to get better at it and push the weights up. If there is a weakness in your squat, choose a single assistance exercise for it and work at that over a period of time. The body has limited recovery capacity and it just gets wasted on a crap load of assistance work that amounts to little or nothing. Better to save that capacity for the primary movers and shakers. I'd forgoe a ton of the BS exercises and save myself for a second session of squats, benches and pulling during the week. For arms - choose 1 exercise for bis and 1 for tris during each training cycle and get better at it, then switch it up if you choose for the next one.

There are many programs that have people squating 2-3 times per week and hitting their legs with all kinds of compound pulling and recoveries from the squat cleans and snatches - these guys are natural and grow/get stronger just fine as they watch their volume/intensity of the course of the program. What they don't do is dilute themselves with a lot of extraneous assistance work that isn't specifically required at a point in time. Given you are a body builder, there might well be a reason closer to the contest for a wider range of exercises to refine your physique but if gaining muscle is the perrogative, I'd pair them down with extreme predjudice during the bulking phase. I know programs like your own are common in the bodybuilding circles, but no one who gets paid to make people big and strong at the Div1, Pro, or Olympic levels would employ anything even remotely similar regardless of whether someone was drugged or not. Obviously enough drugs can eek out gains from any reasonable workout but the best programs will leave little to no growth on the table or enable you to gain as much or more while significantly lowering your dosages.

Obviously, you are going to gain a lot of size with the drug regimine but I hate to see so much effort and thought get executed without a program like that. Even Bill Starr's basic 5x5 will work wonders. Maybe check out the JohnSmith182 tribute sticky in the Meso training forum for his variation (this is a very very worthwhile read BTW - multiple topics covered in thread http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=12 ). I hope I don't come off like a dick but I really think that program is going to significantly dilute your potential for gains or require you to take significantly higher dosages for a equivalent effect. You could bust your butt with that program and not achieve the kind of gains you would doing semi-sloppy work with a proper size/strength program. If you want some other info on training (since this isn't a training board) I'd be happy to point you in some worthwhile directions if you want.