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A needed answer about SARMS.

marcu_s

New member
It seems that some people have the oppinion that sarms is supressive, and some dont.
Have also read that its "little supressive", how that can be i dont understand, eiather its supressive or not, isnt it?

Anyway, that bridge idea, do a aas cycle, then when pct start include sarms in it.
And after its done, cruise whit sarm and Bridge to the next cycle.
Too me it sounds perfect.
But since some people say its supressive i dont know what to think.

Im gonna say exactly what answer im looking for here.
I want to compete in 1-3 years, not in Bodybuilding, Athletic fitness, and still need 4-5kg pure muscle.
And willing to do anything to achive that, in those 1-3 years.

Except maybe crusies that will send me to Trt, to me its not worth it, cause i dont want to compete inBbodybuilding.

I have been thinking about cruise whit test between cycles.
But what if im in 10 years want to do something else, the i would be stuck whit trt for the rest of my life.

But what if i could do a cycle, and then immidently after that jump on sarms to keep gains, and it wouldnt be supressive, it would be magic, wouldnt be stuck whit any Trt or anything, but would still be getting the fysique like i was always on test, do u see my point?

So to the question, will being on aas to sarms for years, shut me down like a cruise between cycles whit test will do?

Or will it be like a non supressive bridge?

Sorry if i confuse Hrt whit Trt.
 
If it is suppressive at all it is very mild, there are guys recovering on s4 while on sarms during PCT. I have felt no suppression.

I just started back, Im doing before and after tests to see where my levels are at.
 
I think its age dependent, i get suppressed on sarms however i have never been on hrt
 
This is exacly what I'm doing now. Ctcle Was sust/deca and some of needto's goodies. Pct clomid, sarms, unleashed. My nut size has still increased while being on SARMS so I dont think its very suppressive if at all. My pct is done in 3 days then I'm staying on Sarms and unleashed and adding bridge. Stopping Bridge one week before next cycle and staying on SARMS and Unleashed until day one of next cycle.
 
It seems that some people have the oppinion that sarms is supressive, and some dont.
Have also read that its "little supressive", how that can be i dont understand, eiather its supressive or not, isnt it?

Anyway, that bridge idea, do a aas cycle, then when pct start include sarms in it.
And after its done, cruise whit sarm and Bridge to the next cycle.
Too me it sounds perfect.
But since some people say its supressive i dont know what to think.

Im gonna say exactly what answer im looking for here.
I want to compete in 1-3 years, not in Bodybuilding, Athletic fitness, and still need 4-5kg pure muscle.
And willing to do anything to achive that, in those 1-3 years.

Except maybe crusies that will send me to Trt, to me its not worth it, cause i dont want to compete inBbodybuilding.

I have been thinking about cruise whit test between cycles.
But what if im in 10 years want to do something else, the i would be stuck whit trt for the rest of my life.

But what if i could do a cycle, and then immidently after that jump on sarms to keep gains, and it wouldnt be supressive, it would be magic, wouldnt be stuck whit any Trt or anything, but would still be getting the fysique like i was always on test, do u see my point?

So to the question, will being on aas to sarms for years, shut me down like a cruise between cycles whit test will do?

Or will it be like a non supressive bridge?

Sorry if i confuse Hrt whit Trt.

SARMS require a PCT, plain and simple. They will not completely SHUTDOWN the HPTA, but they will reduce endogenous testosterone levels significantly. One day, scientists may develop a truly SELECTIVE SARM, but right now the SARMS developed aren't completely selective and they will still inhibit the HPTA.
 
No PCT needed with SARMS.

Odd, I needed HCGenerate to get my sex drive and "size" back...Maybe I would have recovered without anything, but wasn't going to risk it.

Everyone in this thread has mentioned shutdown...Just sayin...So do the medical studies...just sayin, again.

I still like SARMS tho...

-Legacy
 
It is a little supressive, but it is also a very, very, very impressive drug. I personally don't want to use it as PCT though.

I used to cycle about once every 10 months. Now I blend-in about 6-8 weeks of sarms between cycles to maintain overall body composition. There's no question I can cut calories and still keep strength and size while on.
 
Everyone s different. Some people get suppressed on anavar. Some people shutdown on anavar. I would imagine that sarms is similar to this example. For some, it may cause shutdown, For others, it may simply supress. Some people may be able to use it in PCT because the supression is so minimal to them that the products they are using in PCT overcome any supression.

It's all going to be subjective, so it's an impossible argument to win....or lose.

My sex drive increased and my balls dropped when using sarms to bridge from a dermacrine/19 tren cycle to a test e cycle.
 
Everyone s different. Some people get suppressed on anavar. Some people shutdown on anavar. I would imagine that sarms is similar to this example. For some, it may cause shutdown, For others, it may simply supress. Some people may be able to use it in PCT because the supression is so minimal to them that the products they are using in PCT overcome any supression.

It's all going to be subjective, so it's an impossible argument to win....or lose.

My sex drive increased and my balls dropped when using sarms to bridge from a dermacrine/19 tren cycle to a test e cycle.

Any drug or anabolic steroid compound that inhibits the HPTA at all should be entirely avoided during PCT. End of discussion.
 
Why would you say such a thing, especially with nothing to back it up?:confused:

SARMS and the NEW PCT.

sarms S-4 is a revolutionary advancement in the field of muscle development through anabolic enhancement. Simply put, sarms targets the androgen receptors in a “selective” manner (Hence the term Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), zeroing in on the “good “ aspects while negating the bad(1). In this way, you get the benefits of enhanced androgenic effects – strength, increased muscle and heightened libido – without the negative side effects of traditional anabolic/androgenic steroids -- prostate enlargement(2), increased blood pressure, testicular atrophy, hair loss and elevated cholesterol(3)(4). And it does it all in an orally bio-available form that is not liver toxic. Sound interesting? It should. sarms is changing the landscape of bobybuilding in a big way. And for those who already use steroids as a part of the process, sarms has several interesting applications, most significantly, in the area of Post Cycle Therapy(5).

Part of this usage is another advantage that is especially appealing to those who use steroids on a regular basis. In controlled dosages, sarms is relatively non-suppressive. This opens up considerable possibilities in regard to utilizing sarms to enhance a typical steroid cycle, but more significantly, it becomes a tremendous tool in the area of PCT.

Coming off of steroids is the most complicated, and often confusing part of the process. The athlete wants to maintain gains, avoid the “crash” of reduced strength and muscle growth and yet, recover his natural hormonal balance. It’s a tricky balance of drugs, supplements and ultimately luck. Some fare better than others and many consider the down time inevitability. But with the advent of sarms S-4, not only can the transition be made more tolerable, it is now possible to avoid the down sides of coming off of a steroid cycle(6). One can maintain the gains and even continue growing after the cessation of steroids.

The most logical method of PCT use would be to implement sarms as a “taper” at the end of a cycle. In other words, once you stop using steroids, the body can obviously no longer support the muscle growth it achieved in an enhanced state. Natural testosterone is lower. And nitrogen retention is lessened. That’s where sarms fits the bill. By using sarms following the end of a cycle, the body can begin to recover yet still receive both the anabolic and androgen benefits. Muscles will still be able to absorb increased nitrogen from Protein sources, thus increasing muscle tissue growth and the androgenic qualities will insure that strength is maintained(7). Recovery time will also be reduced. You can still work out hard without fear of overtraining and the increased workload will lead to further improvement. In short, this means no crash and no loss of gains. Essentially, you’re still “on” but you’re recovering. Sounds perfect, doesn’t it? Well, it’s not perfect, but it’s pretty damn close to it. Never before has anything like this been possible and the potential is amazing(8).

The only drawback of using sarms (if it even be considered a drawback) is the fact that its androgenic ratio is closer to a mild steroid such as Primobolin than it is to testosterone. So by itself, one could not and should not expect tremendous gains in mass from it. Increasing the dosage beyond 50-100 mls a day is not recommended since at that point the risk/benefit ratio shifts unfavorably – not that the side effects are severe, but that’s where continued use could lead to suppression, and then you’re defeating the purpose of using it for PCT(9)

Another steroid with which sarms can be compared is Proviron. The main similarity in regard to the physical result is a noticeable “hardness” and increased density to the muscles. Proviron is also only mildly suppressive and then, only in high dosages for extended duration, which is why it too is a popular add-on at the end of a cycle. Neither drug can aromatize and also work as an anti estrogen. (Another advantage in PCT). The main difference between Proviron and sarms is that Proviron is DHT based making it especially hard on the hairline and prostate -- NOT what you want when trying to restore sex drive and stamina. sarms has been shown to cause less prostate hypertrophy than all other steroids(10). In fact, in some studies sarms has been shown to decrease prostate weight similar to the 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, Finesteride(11). How perfect is that?

Higher dosages have also been shown to lead to vision disturbances (much like with Clomid). Still, at 50mg - 100mg a day the results are impressive and virtually side effect free. A good way to incorporate sarms into PCT is to begin using 50mls a day at the same time as you begin using other PCT ancillaries – depending on what drugs and supplements you prefer and/or found to be effective. You then can continue using sarms and supplements which will allow the HPTA to begin functioning on its own without the help of other drugs such as hcg or Clomid(12). The added benefit would be continued strength and libido and an increased muscularity. Instead of being a time when you experience the loss of gains, it will become a time when the gains become solidified and you can look better than ever(13).

It won’t be long before the term PCT and sarms are inexorably linked. The way PCT is conducted will be changed forever. In fact, it already is.
REFERENCES.

1. Drug Discov Today. 2007 Mar;12(5-6):241-8. Epub 2007 Feb 7.
Expanding the therapeutic use of androgens via selective androgen receptor modulators (sarms).
Gao W, Dalton JT.
Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State University, 500 W 12th Avenue, Columbus, OH 43210, USA
2. Expert Opin Investig Drugs. 2006 Apr;15(4):377-87.
Therapeutic potential of the sarms: revisiting the androgen receptor for drug discovery.
Segal S, Narayanan R, Dalton JT.
1GTx, Inc., Memphis, TN 38163, USA
3. Curr Opin Investig Drugs. 2006 Oct;7(10):873-81.
Selective androgen receptor modulators: in pursuit of tissue-selective androgens.
Omwancha J, Brown TR.
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Division of Reproductive Biology, 615 North Wolfe Street, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA
4. J Biol Chem. 2009 Dec 25;284(52):36367-76. Epub 2009 Oct 21.
Identification of anabolic selective androgen receptor modulators with reduced activities in reproductive tissues and sebaceous glands.
Schmidt A, Harada S, Kimmel DB, Bai C, Chen F, Rutledge SJ, Vogel RL, Scafonas A, Gentile MA, Nantermet PV, McElwee-Witmer S, Pennypacker B, Masarachia P, Sahoo SP, Kim Y, Meissner RS, Hartman GD, Duggan ME, Rodan GA, Towler DA, Ray WJ.
Department of Molecular Endocrinology/Bone Biology, Merck Research Laboratories, West Point, Pennsylvania 1948, USA
5. Nucl Recept Signal. 2008;6:e010. Epub 2008 Nov 26.
Selective androgen receptor modulators in preclinical and clinical development.
Narayanan R, Mohler ML, Bohl CE, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Preclinical Research and Development, GTx, Inc., Memphis, Tennessee, USA
6. Handb Exp Pharmacol. 2010;(195):99-126.
Synthetic anabolic agents: steroids and nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulators.
Thevis M, Schänzer W.
Center for Preventive Doping Research - Institute of Biochemistry, German Sport University Cologne, Am Sportpark MĂĽngersdorf 6, 50933, Cologne, Germany
7. Pharmacokinetics of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide in rats, a non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulator
J. D. KEARBEY,† D. WU,† W. GAO,† D. D. MILLER,‡ and J. T. DALTON†* †Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH 43210, USA.
‡Department of Pharmaceutics, Graduate Health Sciences Center, College of Pharmacy, University of Tennessee, Memphis, TN 38163, USA
8. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1999 Oct;84(10):3459-62.
Selective androgen receptor modulators (sarms): a novel approach to androgen therapy for the new millennium.
Negro-Vilar A.
Ligand Pharmaceuticals, Inc., San Diego, California 92121, USA
9. Discovery and biological characterization of a novel series of androgen receptor modulators.
Zhou C, Wu G, Feng Y, Li Q, Su H, Mais DE, Zhu Y, Li N, Deng Y, Yang D, Wang MW
10. Design, synthesis, and biological characterization of metabolically stable selective androgen receptor modulators.
Marhefka CA, Gao W, Chung K, Kim J, He Y, Yin D, Bohl C, Dalton JT, Miller DD
11. Antiandrogens in prostate cancer.
Reid P, Kantoff P, Oh W.
Lank Center for Genitourinary Oncology, Dana Farber-Partners Cancer Care, Boston, MA 02115, USA
12. Emerging drugs for hypogonadism.
Edelstein D, Dobs A, Basaria S.
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Baltimore, MD, USA
13. Anabolic applications of androgens for functional limitations associated with aging and chronic illness.
Bhasin S, Storer TW

http://drugsprofiles.com/other-perfo...e-therapy.html

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That article is entirely false, SARMS should NOT be used during PCT under any circumstance!

This article was written prior to having the knowledge that SARMS are indeed suppressive of natural testosterone production, when it was originally speculated that they wouldn't be. Although SARMS are very useful for bodybuilding purposes, they have no place in a PCT protocol.
 
I know many people using it in PCT and is a bridge, they love it.

We will see when my test results get back just how suppressive it is.
 
This article was written prior to having the knowledge that SARMS are indeed suppressive of natural testosterone production, when it was originally speculated that they wouldn't be.
I have read several of the research studies published on PubMed, etc, and remember none that indicate all subjects were suppressed. The study result sections only typically indicate a percentage of average suppression, or something of the like, and these results are after long term exposure such as would be seen in TRT.

The only thing we can say for certain is that, anecdotally, some people get suppressed, and others do not. There are too many variables – age, dosage, physiological state, duration, etc. – to make a “for certain” statement.
 
I feel its best use is for
1. bridging
2. stand along cycle that more then likely will not need a pct after but still best to do a light one just to be safe
3. add on to any cycle.

That is the most perfect ways to use the product
 
That article is entirely false, SARMS should NOT be used during PCT under any circumstance!

This article was written prior to having the knowledge that SARMS are indeed suppressive of natural testosterone production, when it was originally speculated that they wouldn't be. Although SARMS are very useful for bodybuilding purposes, they have no place in a PCT protocol.

Ross if you slow down and take the time to read this Article carefully you will see that its really explaining the use of sarms as a pre pct my friend. Much like using provirone or another mild anabolic as a pre pct. It fall into play with everything you have said in this thread right here ross

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...pct-active-recovery-ross-erstling-612012.html

Take a link again at the write that is posted in full here ross DrugsProfiles.com | SARMS And The New Post Cycle Therapy

then think about it for a bit and see how it fits perfectly with everything you have said here in this thread http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...pct-active-recovery-ross-erstling-612012.html

My friend you and I both know that sarms would work better and more effective for pre pct then any of the steroids you have listed in that thread. Think about it man!!!

These are the drugs you listed in that thread that can be used as pre pct


anavar/Proviron= 20mgs/25mgs
anavar/Masteron= 20mgs/300mgs
primobolan/Masteron= 200mgs/200mgs
Turinabol/Proviron= 20mgs/50mgs
Turinabol/Masteron= 20mgs/50mgs
winstrol/Masteron= 50mgs/200
dianabol/Proviron= 15mgs/50mgs
dianabol/Masteron= 15mgs/200mgs

for god sake man Personally IMO I think half of what you listed would not allow any recovery at all man. Now with sarms everything you have stated in that thread is now 100% true and no one can argue with that. Take all of your pre pct ideas and argument in that thread ross and put sarms in its place.

MY god man sarms is the perfect pre pct drug. In fact its the best damn pre pct Idea ever man think about it. Str8 from your lips man. All your Idea and sarms just perfected the fuck out of. How ya like that my man :evil::evil::evil:
 
I have read several of the research studies published on PubMed, etc, and remember none that indicate all subjects were suppressed. The study result sections only typically indicate a percentage of average suppression, or something of the like, and these results are after long term exposure such as would be seen in TRT.

The only thing we can say for certain is that, anecdotally, some people get suppressed, and others do not. There are too many variables – age, dosage, physiological state, duration, etc. – to make a “for certain” statement.

Exactly and any product that MAY cause shutdown should be avoided in PCT, there is only a select group of people that say it should be used in PCT, but it's not the medical community or the people that used SARMS and had some shutdown.

Keep in mind I like SARMs, just not for use in PCT.

-Legacy
 
Ross if you slow down and take the time to read this Article carefully you will see that its really explaining the use of sarms as a pre pct my friend. Much like using provirone or another mild anabolic as a pre pct. It fall into play with everything you have said in this thread right here ross

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...pct-active-recovery-ross-erstling-612012.html

Take a link again at the write that is posted in full here ross DrugsProfiles.com | SARMS And The New Post Cycle Therapy

then think about it for a bit and see how it fits perfectly with everything you have said here in this thread http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...pct-active-recovery-ross-erstling-612012.html

My friend you and I both know that sarms would work better and more effective for pre pct then any of the steroids you have listed in that thread. Think about it man!!!

These are the drugs you listed in that thread that can be used as pre pct


anavar/Proviron= 20mgs/25mgs
anavar/Masteron= 20mgs/300mgs
primobolan/Masteron= 200mgs/200mgs
Turinabol/Proviron= 20mgs/50mgs
Turinabol/Masteron= 20mgs/50mgs
winstrol/Masteron= 50mgs/200
dianabol/Proviron= 15mgs/50mgs
dianabol/Masteron= 15mgs/200mgs

for god sake man Personally IMO I think half of what you listed would not allow any recovery at all man. Now with sarms everything you have stated in that thread is now 100% true and no one can argue with that. Take all of your pre pct ideas and argument in that thread ross and put sarms in its place.

MY god man sarms is the perfect pre pct drug. In fact its the best damn pre pct Idea ever man think about it. Str8 from your lips man. All your Idea and sarms just perfected the fuck out of. How ya like that my man :evil::evil::evil:

so we are all in 100% agreement on this subject though ^^^ that sarms is the best pre pct Idea ever. Ya I thought we all were. Thanks guys you rule
 
Sarms is best used while on PCT but dosages must stat below 75mg and no more than 3 weeks IMO.

Says you or some sort of study?
 
but still guys, will using aas then pct and after that sarms for years and years, shut the system down to none?
or will years after years after cycling and then bridging whit sarms just or maybe supress a litle bit?

so coming off after years wont be a problem, and wount be any precasions?
sorry for the bad spelling.
 
but still guys, will using aas then pct and after that sarms for years and years, shut the system down to none?
or will years after years after cycling and then bridging whit sarms just or maybe supress a litle bit?

so coming off after years wont be a problem, and wount be any precasions?
sorry for the bad spelling.

I personally would come off. SARMS is great stuff, but IMO you're either on or you're off. Too many people treat bridging as being always on cycle, just with lower doses or milder compounds.
 
but still guys, will using aas then pct and after that sarms for years and years, shut the system down to none?
or will years after years after cycling and then bridging whit sarms just or maybe supress a litle bit?

so coming off after years wont be a problem, and wount be any precasions?
sorry for the bad spelling.

I just had my test levels checked before I started sarms again, they came back normal(with no PCT). I have done sarms 4 or 5 times in the last year before I took the test,the test came back normal. I will be taking another after I get off. There I no shutdown with this stuff.
 
I just had my test levels checked before I started sarms again, they came back normal(with no PCT). I have done sarms 4 or 5 times in the last year before I took the test,the test came back normal. I will be taking another after I get off. There I no shutdown with this stuff.

good to hear bro.
so how much have u gained?
how has sarms changed your physique?

getting excited, maybe will start a cycle soon whit it.
got a botle at home.

how long does one bottle keep its potency, dont want it to get old....?
 
SARMS require a PCT, plain and simple. They will not completely SHUTDOWN the HPTA, but they will reduce endogenous testosterone levels significantly.

100% true. I have done SARMS and did blood work and I 'felt' fine but my test levels were below the lower threshold when I was done. It was only six week cycle.

Posts I see where they do not get blood work done people say they are fine.

The posts I have seen where people go out and get blood work show that it is suppressive.

Bloodwork costs $179 online and it is easy to get done. Everyone here should do it.
 
100% true. I have done SARMS and did blood work and I 'felt' fine but my test levels were below the lower threshold when I was done. It was only six week cycle.

Posts I see where they do not get blood work done people say they are fine.

The posts I have seen where people go out and get blood work show that it is suppressive.

Bloodwork costs $179 online and it is easy to get done. Everyone here should do it.

I took a zrt test BEFORE and AFTER and my numbers came back roughly the same, no shutdown at all.....

No shrinkage nothing....anavar makes my nuts vanish
 
Says you or some sort of study?

I have test as well. After 6 weeks of 50mg twice a day My test levels were only slightly lowered. Now I am betting if i ran it at 25mg twice a day like one should they would not be lowered at all..

Studies show that it is only slightly suppressing and that is "dose dependent" studies show that it only starts to suppress when taken at 100mg every day and above for long periods of time.

Read the fucking study!!!!!!!! I see these guys who, well claim they are guru's and shit. Or people who I thought could at least understand the literature in front of there face. Syaing that sarms s-4 is totally suppressive and they are flat out wrong.

Read the studies on it clearly state that its suppressing actions did not take effect until "after" a "higher" amount was given. That its suppressive action is "dose dependent" .

Excuse me but thats not imposable you know! Similar effect patterns can be seen with studies of other drugs like 4-Hydroxyandrostenedione . Studies show that at moderate doses for long periods of time this drug lowers estrogen and progesterone and "raises lh" but at higher doses for longer time frames it becomes more anabolic and thus can be suppressive. Still ether way its action is always lowering estrogen,progesterone, and shbg ...

Studies have also shown that a low dose of dbol or a low dose of var is also "not suppressive" ans Ross has been seen posting that shit over and over and over again all over the internet including here on this site.

No steroid should be used for pct. Sarms should also not be used for pct. However as I have stated many times a moderate dose of sarms s-4 at 25mg twice a day is not suppressive and will not shot you down to the point of needing a pct.


BUT Shit why not just use a little something after sarms cycle anyway just to be safe right? Well this is why we have the product bridge!!!!!!!!!! Bridge
and the reason both Sarms search and I along with nelson have been saying they go perfect together. Bridge is dirt cheap too.

You can use these products many ways and they work hand in hand perfectly.

Cycle,then pct,then bridge,then sarms till the next cycle

sarms s-4 cycle and then a light pct using bridge

Cycle of steroids,then pre pct for 4 weeks with sarms, then pct,then bridge till your next cycle


Shit so many sweat ways to stack these poppies together and use them to your advantage. Sarmssearch should sell the bridge product at his store lololol .
 
At 100mgs ed there may be some mild suppression idf any....at 50mgs ed.....NONE at all.

if your nervous, toss in some hcgenerate for good measure.
 
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