A diet's a diet's a diet, RIGHT???

[Lumbuss]

I will start off by saying keto diets are only good for fat asses and you will lose muscle if you are lean. Do you disagree?

 

[plornive]

I will start off by saying keto diets are only good for fat asses and you will lose muscle if you are lean. Do you disagree?

Yeah, I pretty much agree. I don't see any advantage to going into ketosis, and I would rather get high-intensity energy from carbs than just plain calories from fat.

I think my original eye-rolling was a spur of the moment response --- you and I don't have much to debate about on this issue.

 

[plornive]

Although if someone decides to go on a very-low-calorie crash diet anyway, going into ketosis might actually help to preserve muscle. In that case, very little fat would be consumed. Lots of muscle would be lost, though.

That's not a good idea anyway.

 

[Lumbuss]

yeah, that would be stupid to drop calories real low because they would lose a ton of muscle. hopefully leptigen will make this possible to do w/o the loss if it works.

 

[MS]

IMHO all diets are hard to stick to long term if they are below maintenance calories. Do not be fooled that one diet is better than another in this regard. The only things I know that can ease the pain of dieting (but not eliminate it) are regular refeeds or supplements/drugs. Leptigen fits into the second category....it is not a diet, it is a dieting aid. On all calorie reduced diets you will eventually (if you get lean enough) lose muscle, even with plenty of protein intake. Keto is not special in this regard, but I agree that if you're gonna do an extreme crash diet then keto is prolly better for minimizing muscle loss.

Diets fail because of lack of will power from the dieter. Drugs that reduce the amount of willpower needed will be effective. You really shouldn't dismiss a keto diet until you've tried it, but I would save that experiment until after your competition.......

 

[SteelWeaver]

Diets fail because of lack of will power from the dieter. Drugs that reduce the amount of willpower needed will be effective. You really shouldn't dismiss a keto diet until you've tried it, but I would save that experiment until after your competition.......

Diets also fail because of lack of KNOWLEDGE. You can have all the will power in the world, but if you're stalled and you don't know why, nothing's gonna help you until you figure it out and make the necessary changes.

Did you mean me, btw? I haven't dismissed keto completely. But even 60g carbs a day pretty much tasted like shit as a veggie, lol! And felt even worse. Not that taste or whatever is much of an issue when dieting, but a tiny bit of variety helps.

Almost certainly (judging by the current rebound) I'll need that keto about a month after the next comp, bwaa ha haa.

Going back to the master list, here's something that should be on that list: the fact that doing a keto directly pre-comp can ruin the carb-up (if that's the way you're going to do it) because of the lower levels of glycase (was it glycase, MS?).

I think we should make a "Did you know ...?" sticky for this diet board that people can add their knowledge or experience to, like, for example, the above fact. Or what about rebound from any diet?

Or, if you've lost tons of energy, you're tired, your temperature has dropped, you're craving badly, this means: refeed.

Maybe a sticky like that would get out of control, though.

Lumbuss and plornive, do you have anything to add to the master list?

 

[plornive]

Creatine, pre-workout and during workout carb+whey drinks help me a lot. I am cutting and experimenting with glycerine, creatine, arginine, whey, glycerine and a lot of water pre-workout. I also have 1/2 of a sweet potato before most workouts. This helps me to continue to get good pumps and strength in my workouts.

Basically, anything to hydrate and volumize the muscles and pre/during workout carbs to get through workouts helps big time in maintining strength, IMO.

EC is so very useful, but can cause repetetive crashes if used too long.

Taking breaks from cutting is a good idea if the duration of cutting is long overall. A week or two of maintenance or slightly above with less cardio.

That's all I can think of right now.

 

[makedah]

Good questions, SteelWeaver. I hope you get a lot of good responses.


How do you eat only 60 gms carbs a day as a vegetarian. DO tell?

 

[Punschkrapfen]

On Keto i had TONS AND TONS of energy. Now that i'm off, i'm back to my normal lazy self. I don't know where you're getting your info from. Eating water and pure protein gives me more energy than eating big macs and carbs all day which makes my insulin pop up and down like a freakin' yo-yo. Those "sugar-rushes".

couldn't agree more. I have wasted years with high-carb diets, because everybody was saying if you want a good workout you have to consume carbs to fuel intensive training. Shit. I got tired very quick, didn't make much progress and got fat. I even went on to add liquid carbs during the workout which gave me some boost, but also made me fatter. Then i frequently did cutting high-carb diets and lost all the muscle and was tired all day.
Over the past 2 years i gradually switched to high-protein and elimiated most carbs step-by-step. I do workout in the morning and for breakfast i consume a protein drink and after workout i get another protein shake and/or some cottage cheese, meat or other protein sources. Its incredible - strengh and endurance are way up, intensive workouts, not tired the rest of the day, i sleep 1-2 hours less then 2 years go and i am constantly growing and getting stronger.
I am currently on a CKD, ketostix say i am in deep ketosis, but i have no drop in strength or endurance. On the opposite, i even feel somewhat more energetic. Of course, muscles look flatter, therefore i do 1-2 refeed days, but i don't have more energy on the refeed day or after.

Problem for people like me is that carbs induce an insulin spike that quickly clear the sugar from the bloodstream and converts it to triglycerides which are shuttled into fat cells and are not used for energy. Some other people's blood sugar stays elevated higher and longer because of lower insulin excretion after the ingestion of carbs, and they can therefore use these carbs better for energy. Therefore we have to make a difference between several types of people. The latter group probably will do fine on high(er)-carb diets, while the overly carb-sensitive group has to keep carbs down as much as possible.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Good questions, SteelWeaver. I hope you get a lot of good responses.


How do you eat only 60 gms carbs a day as a vegetarian. DO tell?

I hope so too.

I'm ovo-lacto veg, so lets just say a lot of chickens were working overtime for my diet.

And when the egg whites just made me feel too sick, a soy/casein protein powder blend.